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"How does it work?" Part 7b: Gaining Chances to Level Up[message #197272] Thu, 25 September 2008 15:57 Go to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1795
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
This is part 2 of an article about levelling up. I am assuming that you've read Part 1: Levelling Up, because if you haven't then you will probably not understand much of what is written here. Please read the first half of the article before continuing, or at least try to understand what the heck it was all about.

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APPLYING MEDICAL TREATMENT

Every hour of game time, the program can give several Chances-To-Advance to any Doctor who has patients in his sector. The amount of chances awarded depends on the amount of healing that the doctor has done this hour.

Damage_Healed = Amount of damage healed for all patients * 10
Number_of_Chances for Medical = Damage Healed / 100
Number_of_Chances for Dexterity = Damage Healed / 100
Number_of_Chances for Wisdom = Damage Healed / 100


I won't go into the Medical Treatment formulas now, but suffice to say that a good doctor can heal around 10 points per hour, split semi-intelligently between all patients (including the doctor himself, if injured). For each actual damage or bandaged damage healed, the doctor gets one chance to get an advancement point in Medical, Dexterity, and Wisdom.

Also, if the medical kit runs out, the merc may only fulfill part of his potential - unused points do not go towards advancement.

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REPAIRING ITEMS

When a merc is assigned to Repair Items, he or she gets a certain number of Chances to Advance up based on the amount of damage repaired in the last hour. The amount of repair per hour is shown above a character's portrait in the strategic screen. If there's less damage to repair than the merc can handle in an hour, leftover point are NOT included.

Number_of_Chances for Dexterity = (Damage_Repaired / 2)
Number_of_Chances for Mechanical = (Damage_Repaired / 2)


So for each 2 points of item damage actually repaired, the merc gets one chance to level up in both skills.

Also, if the repair kit runs out, the merc may only fulfill part of his potential - unused points do not go towards advancement.

-----------------------------------

TRAINING

When a merc is training others, or training Militia, they get a certain number of Chances to Advance based on the amount of training they can do in an hour, every hour. Training itself is quite a complex formula, and depends on a lot of factors which I don't care to explain at the moment. However, like with Repairs and Medical Treatment, the value displayed over our character as he is training helps.

Please note that "Training" refers to three different types of activities. I'll cover each one.

MILITIA

When training militia, we get one chance per turn to level up our Leadership and our Wisdom (1 each!). In addition, the better our ability at training, the more chances we get.

Training_Points = The number over your character's portrait
Number_of_Extra_Chances for Leadership = Training Points / 20
Number_of_Extra_Chances for Wisdom = Training Points / 40


This is on top of the 1 free chance.

TRAINING ANOTHER MERC

When training others, the student gets chances to advance in the field being trained, while the trainer gets chances to advance in both Leadership and Wisdom. The actual calculation of how many chances we get is somewhat obscure to me at the moment, but here's what I do have:


  • The trainer gains the same number of chances to advance in both Leadership and Wisdom. The exact number of chances is based on many things, including both trainer and student's skills and wisdom, as well as modifiers for tiredness and the TEACHING trait, and even on JA2_OPTIONS.INI values.
  • The student gains a certain number of chances to advance in the studied field, and half that amount of chances to advance wisdom. Again, the amount depends on both student and teacher skills, traits, fatigue, and JA2_OPTIONS.INI.


TRAINING ONESELF

I assume this refers to practice, but the code calls it "TRAIN_SELF". In this case, the practicing merc gets a certain number of skill increases in the practiced field, and half that amount of chances in WISDOM. However in this case, there is no bonus from the TRAINER's abilities as there is no trainer.

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UNJAMMING GUNS IN REPAIR MODE

When a merc is set to repair items, he/she will automatically attempt to unjam any guns carried by mercs in the same sector.


  • 5 chances to advance in MECHANICAL for each unjammed gun
  • 5 chances to advance in DEXTERITY for each unjammed gun


-----------------------------------

BANDAGING MERCS AFTER AUTORESOLVE

This is a virtual goldmine for anyone wanting to level up their Medical and Dexterity stats. When autoresolve is over, there's a button that allows automatic bandaging. This works similarly to automatic bandaging of mercs after tactical combat.

Damage_Bandaged = The total amount of bleeding that has been turned into bandages (pink) by this merc.
Number_of_Chances for Medical = Damage_Bandaged / 2
Number_of_Chances for Dexterity = Damage_Bandaged / 4


Bandaging is very effective, and can often heal a huge amount of damage, especially if other teammembers are seriously wounded. Since it is only divided by 2, it can give a whole lot of chances to raise your Medical skill, and half as many to raise the Dexterity level.

---------------------------------

FIRING A SHOT IN AUTORESOLVE

Characters will always try to use firearms during autoresolve, if they have any.


  • 3 Chances to advance in Marksmanship for any shot in Auto-Resolve
  • 6 Extra Chances to advance in Marksmanship for any shot that HITS, in Auto-Resolve


This is where it gets ugly though - it seems that whoever set up melee attacks in Autoresolve was careless, and had copied some stuff over without making sure it was the right stuff. For that reason:


  • 6 Chances to advance in Marksmanship for any MELEE/KNIFE attack that hits, in Auto-Resolve


Hmpf.

--------------------------------

DODGING HITS IN AUTORESOLVE

In autoresolve, any attack that missed the target will give the target some chances to advance in Agility.


  • 5 Chances to advance in Agility when "dodging" any type of attack in Auto-Resolve


--------------------------------

BEING HIT IN AUTORESOLVE

Yet another goldmine for advancing easily (but risky!) - In autoresolve, any attack that hits the target will give the target some chances to advance in Experience Level

Damage_Taken = Actual damage to the merc's health, from any attack.
Number_of_Chances for Experience Level = (Damage_Taken / 2)


Get yourself shot, mate!

--------------------------------

KILLING TARGETS IN AUTORESOLVE

Any attack that kills an enemy in Autoresolve is supposed to give some chances to advance in Experience Level, to the killer and anyone else who had shot bullets at the target right before it died (called Assisters). However, it seems as though the program has an oddity that prevents any chances from actually being handed out.

Supposedly, the killer should get 10 * pTarget's_pathing.bLevel chances, where Target's_pathing.bLevel always seems to equal 0. The assisters get 5 * pTarget's_pathing.bLevel chances each, which, again, always equals 0. I think the pathing.bLevel value should equal 1 when the enemy is standing on a roof... but there are no roofs in AutoResolve (the sector isn't even loaded), so it seems to always be 0. GRRRRR.

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TRAVELLING BETWEEN SECTORS

We can get experience for travelling as well, and some people exploit this for easy strength gains. It is awarded every time a merc arrives at a sector. The number of Chances-to-Advance we get from travelling is relatively easy to calculate. Unfortunately, Health increases are utterly bugged.

Travelling_Time = The time it takes to travel from the previous sector to the new sector, in minutes.
Number_of_Chances for HEALTH = Travelling_Time / (4.5 - Merc's_Maximum_Health)


This is the formula that calculates how many chances to advance health we get each time we move between any two sectors (including when we're on route to somewhere else). As you can see, the result will always be negative unless the merc's maximum health is ridiculously low. This is due to a programming error - someone forgot to put the correct parenthesis there. Here's the original code:

uiPoints = pGroup->uiTraverseTime / (450 / 100 - pSoldier->stats.bLifeMax );


Obviously, there should be parenthesis around "100 - pSoldier->stats.bLifeMax", but there aren't. Unfortunate, but I hope now that I've discovered it, maybe someone can correct it.

In any case, we can also increase our strength by travelling between two sectors:

Carried_Weight_Percent = Percentage of weight carried vs. maximum weight. You can see this on your merc's inventory data sheet. 
Travelling_Time = The time it takes to travel from the previous sector to the new sector, in minutes.
Travelling_Bonus = Travelling_Time / (450 / (100 - Merc's_Strength_Level) )  
Number_of_Chances for STRENGTH = (Carried_Weight_Percent - 50) * Travelling_Bonus / 100


Alright, it's written correctly here, and it works in the game.

The reason why this is exploited is that the Travelling_Time factor is not based on how much the group has actually travelled, but on the declared amount of time required to cross between the origin and destination sectors. Therefore, when cancelling a move order right after issuing it means that Travelling_Time still equals the full amount of time to cross between the sectors, hence giving us loads of chances to level up Strength...

-------------------------------

PLANTING EXPLOSIVES/MINES

Whenever an armed explosive is planted, we gain chances to advance in Explosives


  • 25 (!!) chances to advance in Explosives for each bomb planted


Then again we don't get many chances to do it... unless we replant the same bomb over and over again, as some people do...

If we fail planting the explosive, we also get some chances:


  • 10 chances to advance in Explosives for each bomb planted unsuccessfully


The downside of explosives handling.... you could lose an arm. Or a head.

--------------------------------

LOCATING HIDDEN ITEMS

I don't think I've ever found a hidden item - these are items that are invisible, until you try to interact with the tile they are in. I actually didn't know it was possible, and seriously, I wouldn't bother looking for them myself. But I guess, if you have lots of time on your hands, have fun.


  • 5 chances to advance in Wisdom, if picked up a hidden item


--------------------------------

DETECTING AND DISARMING A BOOBY TRAP

Found a buried mine? You get chances to advance explosives and wisdom straight away. If you try to disarm it you'll get more. If you don't die. Smile


  • 3 Chances to Advance in Explosives, for each difficulty level of the mine.
  • 3 Chances to Advance in Wisdom, for each difficulty level of the mine.
  • 2 Chances to Advance in Explosives, for each difficulty level of the mine, if it was set by the same merc.
  • 4 Chances to Advance in Explosives, for each difficulty level of the mine, if it was set by another merc.
  • 6 Chances to Advance in Explosives, for each difficulty level of the mine, if it was set by anyone else.
  • 3 Chances to Advance in Explosives, for each difficulty level of the mine, if failed.


Also, it may be possible for some items to be booby-trapped (ever played SOG '69?). In this case, the same thing can trigger from the map screen sector inventory. If so, it always treats the trap as being set by someone else (we can't boobytrap our own equipment, anyway).

---------------------------------

COMBINING ITEMS

This sort of action is rather common, and depends on XMLized values in AttachmentInfo.XML. It only happens when attaching combo objects that require a Mechanical skill check.


  • (20 - AttachmentSkillCheckMod) Chances to advance in Mechanical
  • (20 - AttachmentSkillCheckMod) Chances to advance in Wisdom


AttachmentSkillCheckMod is drawn from XML out of the attachment info relevant to the items in question. The easier it is, the less chances we get. In 1.13, attaching the copper wire appears to give no chances. Attaching the X-Ray tube and the Remote Detonator appear to give MORE than 20 chances (their AttachmentSkillCheckMods are negative!).

---------------------------------

ATTACHING ITEMS THAT REQUIRE A MECHANICAL CHECK

There are several such items, which are flagged as "USE_ITEM_HARD". They require a skill check at -30, and if it fails the item is damaged. I don't know exactly which items do this as I haven't been able to figure out how the "USE_ITEM_HARD" flag is set. But heck, someone else can probably explain it.


  • 25 chances to advance in Mechanical for attaching a Hard-to-attach object.
  • 5 chances to advance in Wisdom for attaching a Hard-to-attach object.


A great way to advance in Mechanical and Wisdom skills, assuming of course that you're not worried about destroying the item...

---------------------------------

ATTACHING DETONATORS TO EXPLOSIVES

Yet another easy way of gaining explosives skill, and not a very dangerous one either. The skill check is at -30, and the worst result is some damage to the detonator and explosive.


  • 25 chances to advance in Explosives for attaching a detonator to an explosive item.
  • 5 chances to advance in Wisdom for attaching a detonator to an explosive item.


----------------------------------

FORCING A LOCK

We get the same amount of chances-to-advance if we do it with a crowbar as without.


  • 20 chances to advance in Strength, for successfully breaking open a lock.
  • 5 chances to advance in Strength, for damaging a lock ("Lock hit" message appears on screen)
  • 1 chance to advance in Strength, for failing to force open a lock.


The comments and variable names used in the relevant function indicate that this applies to doors, but I think it applies to containers as well. Anyway, if I'm wrong, then we aren't given experience for breaking into locked containers at all!

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SUCCESSFULLY PICKING A LOCK

We get chances to level up in several fields, but only if we've successfully picked the lock. No reward for trying.


  • (Lock_Difficulty / 5) chances to advance in Mechanical, for picking open a lock.
  • (Lock_Difficulty / 10) chances to advance in Dexterity, for picking open a lock.
  • (Lock_Difficulty / 10) chances to advance in Wisdom, for picking open an electronic lock.
  • (Lock_Difficulty / 15) chances to advance in Wisdom, for picking open a regular (mechanical) lock.


Again, I assume we get this for both doors and containers.

----------------------------------

SUCCESSFULLY BLASTING A LOCK

Firing at locked doors may sound silly when you've got a good lockpicker on your team, but boy is this a great way to increase your marksmanship skill... IF IT WORKS. I seem to get very mixed results when firing at locks, even with lockbuster shotgun ammo. Doesn't always seem to do anything.


  • 10 chances to advance (!!) in Marksmanship for blasting open a lock.


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ISSUING ORDERS TO MILITIA ON THE TACTICAL MAP (IN COMBAT?)

Any order you give to militia, ANY order, will give you one chance to level up your Leadership. I think this even applies in real time with no enemies around. If so, what a wicked way to level up your Leadership!! Can someone test this?


  • 1 chance to advance in Leadership, for any order given to militia on the tactical map.


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SPOTTING AN ENEMY WITHOUT BEING SPOTTED

Exactly what it says.


  • 10 chances to advance in Experience Level, when spotting an enemy that hasn't spotted you.


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SPOTTING A PREVIOUSLY UNSEEN ATTACKER

The opposite of the above, this occurs when the enemy already saw you first, but now you can see him too.


  • 5 chances to advance in Experience Level, when spotting a previously unseen attacker.


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KILLIN'

Naturally, you will gain experience for everything you kill, except Crows and Cows. The amount depends on the Experience Level of the recently deceased.


  • (10 * Target's Experience Level) chances to advance in Experience Level, when killing things/people/whatnot.


Also, the program keeps track of whoever was the last OTHER person to shoot at the same target (or hit it? Not sure). They receive a share too:


  • (5 * Target's Experience Level) chances to advance in Experience Level, for assisting in a kill.


-----------------------------------

BEING HIT IN TACTICAL COMBAT

Being hit helps our physique!


  • 4 chances to advance in Health, when hit during tactical combat.
  • 2 chances to advance in Strength, when hit during tactical combat.


-----------------------------------

SNEAKING

For each tile we sneak past an enemy, we get chances to advance in agility. For this to happen, you must:

A) See the enemy when we arrive at the new tile
cool The enemy can't see us when we arrive at the new tile
C) Our merc is now within the enemy's Sight_Distance (regardless of whether the enemy is actually looking in the right direction)


  • 5 chances to advance in Agility for sneaking successfully into an enemy's "personal space" Wink


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BLOWING PEOPLE UP

Whenever an enemy is hit by your grenades/explosives, you're eligible for some advancements. I'm not sure exactly what triggers this, but I think it only refers to explosives that blow up (I.E. immediate damage delivery).

If Damage caused by Explosive item, then
   Combined_Damage = (Amount of Health Damage to the target / 10) + (Amount of Breath Damage to the target / 2000)
   Number_of_Chances for Explosives = 10 * Combined_Damage


Breath damage is a rather obscure factor as I've mentioned in the past, so it's hard to give a more clear explanation on exactly how many chances it gives you. Please also note that this is flagged as a FAILURE-type chance, meaning it can't actually give you an extra point in Explosives, but can get you a lot of advancement points, up to one less than the required amount to advance to the next level.

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BEING HIT

Any damage your mercs take will give some chances to advance in Experience Level.

[code]
Combined_Damage = (Amount of Health Damage to the target / 10) + (Amount of Breath Damage to the target / 2000)
Number_of_Chances for Experience Level = 5 * Combined_Damage
[/code

Once again, the amount of breath damage taken is a rather vague number which I unfortunately can't explain properly yet. And once again this is a FAILURE type advancement, so it can't take you up to the next Experience Level, but it can get you right to the edge.

-------------------------------------

BANDAGING IN TACTICAL MODE

Like in AutoResolve, bandaging in tactical also grants some chances to advance in Medical and Dexterity. However, the numbers are a bit different here, for some reason.

Damage_Bandaged = Total amount of "bleeding" (yellow) health points turned into "Bandaged" (pink) health points.
Number_of_Chances for Medical = Damage_Bandaged / 2
Number_of_Chances for Dexterity = Damage_Bandaged / 6


As you see, dexterity is 1/6th of the bandaged amount, unlike autoresolve where it is 1/4th. Weird.

-------------------------------------

UNJAMMING A WEAPON IN TACTICAL MODE

Same as unjamming a weapon while assigned to Repair Items.


  • 5 Chances to advance in Mechanical, when a weapon is unjammed.
  • 5 Chances to advance in Dexterity, when a weapon is unjammed.


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FIRING A GUN IN TACTICAL MODE

Marksmanship goes up nicely when firing, and as you'll see, the accuracy of the shot makes a world of difference.

Experience_Gain = 0
If Shot it going to Hit, then
   CTH_Bonus = (100 - Chance-to-Hit) / 25
   Experience_Gain is increased by CTH_Bonus
   If spent extra aiming APs, then
      If Experience_Gain is greater than APs_Spent_on_Aiming, then
         Aiming_Bonus = APs_Spent_on_Aiming
      Else,
         Aiming_Bonus = Experience_Gain
      Experience_Gain is increased by Aiming_Bonus
   Experience_Gain is increased by 3

Experience_Gain is increased by 3

If Firing two pistols/SMGs, then
   Experience_Gain reduced by 1/3 of its value
If Firing at a Cow or Crow, then
   Experience_Gain reduced by 1/2
If Firing at Vehicle, Robot or Tank, then
   Experience_Gain = 0

Number_of_Chances for Marskmanship = Experience_Gain


This is very important stuff, so let's go through it. Please note that the order of the formula above is very important, especially if the shot's going to hit.

We start with 0 chances.
If the shot's going to hit, we get a number of chances equal to 1/25 of our chance-to-MISS. That's the opposite of Chance-to-Hit. Smile
If it's going to hit, we get more chances based on our APs Spent on Aiming, but only if the shot was made with low enough accuracy.
Any shot that hits will then give an extra 3 chances.
At this point, we get another 3 chances for any shot, regardless of whether it hit or miss.
Then we check to see if we've fired two weapons. If so, we only get 2/3 as many chances to level up. But remember, we shot twice, so we actually end up with more chances after both weapons are calculated.
Firing at wildlife halves our chances to gain experience.
Finally, firing at immobile targets (or the robot) means we don't get ANY chances at all.

The order is important because things add up, get divided, and are weighed against one another in a specific order...

Note also that if the shot is a miss, then these chances are counted as FAILURE-type - they can't push us up to the next Marksmanship level, but they can get us as close as possible to levelling up, if enough chances are rolled successfully.

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THROWING KNIVES IN TACTICAL MODE

This is similar to firing weapons, although more lucrative in terms of the number of chances we get from it.

Experience_Gain = 0
If knife is going to hit, then
   CTH_Bonus = (100 - Chance-to-Hit) / 10
   Experience_Gain is increased by CTH_Bonus
   If spent extra aiming APs, then
      If Experience_Gain is greater than APs_Spent_on_Aiming, then
         Aiming_Bonus = APs_Spent_on_Aiming
      Else,
         Aiming_Bonus = Experience_Gain
      Experience_Gain is increased by (2 * Aiming_Bonus)
   Experience_Gain is increased by 10

Experience_Gain is increased by 10

If throwing at a Cow or Crow, then
   Experience_Gain reduced by 1/2
If throwing at Vehicle, Robot or Tank, then
   Experience_Gain = 0

Number_of_Chances for Marksmanship = (Experience_Gain / 2)
Number_of_Chances for Dexterity = (Experience_Gain / 2)


Very similar to the weapons formula, but more lucrative.

We start with 0 chances.
If the throw is going to hit, we get a number of chances equal to 1/10 of our chance-to-MISS.
If it's going to hit, we get more chances based on our APs Spent on Aiming, but only if the shot was made with low enough accuracy.
Any throw that hits will then give an extra 10 chances.
At this point, we get another 10 chances for any throw, regardless of whether it hit or miss.
Throwing knives at wildlife halves our chances to gain experience.
Finally, throwing at immobile targets (or the robot) means we don't get ANY chances at all.
The final amount is then HALVED, which is still almost twice as lucrative as when shooting weapons. Plus, we get chances to advance in TWO skills rather than just one.

-------------------------------------


ATTACKING WITH A KNIFE IN TACTICAL COMBAT

This is almost exactly the same as attacking with Throwing Knives, as explained just above, with a slight difference. So I'm not going to explain the whole thing, just show the difference here:

Number_of_Chances for Dexterity = Experience_Gain
Number_of_Chances for Agility = (Experience_Gain / 3)
Number_of_Chances for Strength = (Experience_Gain / 3)


Huge amount of dexterity increases, as unlike in the throwing knives formula, the large number of chances is not dividided by two. For agility and strength we get a little less, around the same amount we'd get to Marksmanship when using firearms.

-------------------------------------

DODGING KNIFE ATTACKS IN TACTICAL COMBAT

We get a nice amount of chances whenever we manage to dodge a knife attack.


  • 15 Chances to advance in Dexterity
  • 5 Chances to advance in Agility
  • 5 Chances to advance in Strength


-------------------------------------

ATTEMPTS AT STEALING

Any attempt at stealing will give you some chances to advance. Successful stealing is of course much more lucrative.

Please note that the program makes sure you don't get points for trying to steal from Vehicles, Robots, or Tanks.

In case of success

  • 8 chances to advance in Strength
  • 3 chances to advance in Dexterity
  • 3 chances to advance in Agility


In case of failure

  • 4 Chances to advance in Strength
  • 1 chance to advance in Dexterity
  • 1 chance to advance in Agility
  • All these chances are considered FAILURES


-------------------------------------

ATTACKING WITH PUNCHES OR BLUNT-WEAPONS IN TACTICAL COMBAT

Hand-to-hand attacks give a number of chances, even if they miss.

If attack was a hit, then
   If target is a Tank, Vehicle, or Robot, then
      No chances.
   If target is a Cow or Crow, then
      Number_of_Chances for Dexterity = 4
      Number_of_Chances for Strength = 1
      Number_of_Chances for Agility = 1
   Else,
      Number_of_Chances for Dexterity = 8
      Number_of_Chances for Strength = 3
      Number_of_Chances for Agility = 3

If attack was a miss, then
   If target is a Tank, Vehicle, or Robot, then
      No chances.
   If target is a Cow or Crow, then
      Number_of_Chances for Dexterity = 2
      Number_of_Chances for Strength = 1
      Number_of_Chances for Agility = 1
   Else,
      Number_of_Chances for Dexterity = 4
      Number_of_Chances for Strength = 1
      Number_of_Chances for Agility = 1   


Surprisingly, even a missed attack gives SUCCESS-type chances (I.E. even if you miss, you can still gain actual levels in DEX, STR, and AGI).

---------------------------------------

DODGING A PUNCH OR BLUNT-WEAPON ATTACK IN TACTICAL COMBAT

This always gives a certain number of chances, about half as much as dodging a knife.


  • 8 Chances to advance in Dexterity
  • 3 Chances to advance in Agility
  • 3 Chances to advance in Strength


---------------------------------------

THROWING GRENADES IN TACTICAL COMBAT

This formula is a bit more mathematical. Note that you only get chances-to-advance if you're actually throwing at targets. They don't have to be in the target tile, but they have to be in the radius of the blast. The more targets are within the blast radius, the more chances you get!!!

Experience_Gain_For_Range = ( ( Weight_of_Grenade * Range_in_METERS ) + 30 ) / 60
Number_of_Chances for Strength = Experience_Gain_For_Range


The comment in the program says that the idea is to get 10 chances for a "pineapple" grenade thrown at 10 tiles (100 meters). I guess that depends on the MODDABLE weight of the grenade though Wink

Experience_Gain_For_Accuracy = 5 + (2 * ( Number_of_Targets_Within_Blast_Radius - 1) )
If grenade has hit the tile it was thrown at, then
   Experience_Gain_For_Accuracy is DOUBLED
CTH_Bonus = (100 - Chance_to_Hit) / 10
Experience_Gain_For_Accuracy is increased by CTH_Bonus

Number_of_Chances for Dexterity = (Experience_Gain_for_Accuracy / 2)
Number_of_Chances for Marksmanship = (Experience_Gain_for_Accuracy / 2)


The more targets you hit, the better. I've not yet researched CTH for grenades, but it factors in here at the same rate as Thrown Knives.

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AVOIDING SHOTS IN TACTICAL MODE

I don't know exactly how to approach this one, but I think I understand most of it. Basically, this type of experience gain happens when a bullet meant for your merc misses (or strikes an obstacle). It goes in line with dodging melee/knife attacks... but with bullets.


  • 5 chances to advance in Agility


This is a FAILURE-type chance. You can't actually gain a level in Agility from this, but it can get you closer to levelling, nonetheless.

-------------------------------------

QUEST EXPERIENCE REWARDS

I may update this section in the future, because I think some of the triggers that cause this are still alluding me. All of the quest rewards give us chances to advance in EXPERIENCE_LEVEL only.


  • 100 chances to advance in Experience Level for Killing Kingpin
  • 100 chances to advance in Experience Level for rescuing a captured merc from ALMA prison
  • 100 chances to advance in Experience Level for rescuing Maria (Angel gives you the deed to his shop)
  • 400 chances to advance in Experience Level for killing the Bug Queen


The reward is given only to mercs who are in the sector at the time, and only if they are conscious.

------------------------------

PHYSICAL EXERTION IN TACTICAL

When undertaking any action in tactical mode which requires the loss of breath points (I.E., physical exertion), we gain a few chances to advance in Health and Strength.

There is a minimum amount of breath points that must be lost for us to qualify for this experience gain. The minimum is equal to the Breath cost of moving across Grass tiles. In the code this is defined as "10 breath points", however the scale of breath points is hard to understand. The ratio between "breath points" and actual visible stamina (the blue bar, and the character's stamina value as displayed when mousing over the stamina bar) is 100 to 1. Therefore, every 100 points of Breath Loss would cause a Stamina loss of 1 point. At least, that's how it seems - the calculation is a bit too complicated for me...

Also, the action we're undertaking must be "proactive", meaning that the loss is caused by an activity rather than by passive breath loss (such as taking damage from enemy attacks).

The more exerting our action was, the more likely we are to get experience increase.

If Breath_Point_Loss > 10, then
   If "Proactive", then
      Random_Number = anything between 0 and 1000
      If Random_Number < Breath_Point_Loss, then
         Gain 4 chances to advance in Health
         Gain 2 chances to advance in Strength


Again, since breath points are difficult to explain, it's simply easier to say that the more breath points you lose due to your actions, the more likely you are to gain points to advance.


[Updated on: Mon, 27 April 2015 23:45] by Moderator



Re: "How does it work?" Part 7b: Gaining Chances to Level Up[message #197275] Thu, 25 September 2008 16:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1795
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
Before you ask, here's a concise list of things that give us a chance to improve our skills.

ACTIVITIES THAT INCREASE HEALTH

  • Taking damage in AutoResolve
  • Travelling between sectors (This is bugged...)
  • Being hit in Tactical Combat (regardless of damage, if any)
  • Taking damage in Tactical Combat
  • "Proactive" actions in Tactical mode that cost Stamina points.

Note that in tactical combat, you get chances for Health even if the hit didn't cause any damage.

ACTIVITIES THAT INCREASE STRENGTH

  • Travelling between sectors with 50% or more weight.
  • Breaking a lock with a kick or a crowbar
  • Damaging a lock with a kick or a crowbar
  • Failing to damage/break a lock with a kick or a crowbar
  • Being hit in Tactical Combat
  • Attacking with a knife, in tactical combat
  • Dodging a knife attack, in tactical combat
  • Any attempt at stealing
  • Attacking with a punch/blunt, in tactical combat
  • Dodging a punch/blunt attack, in tactical combat
  • Throwing grenades, in tactical combat
  • "Proactive" actions in Tactical mode that cost Stamina points.

ACTIVITIES THAT INCREASE AGILITY

  • Dodging hits in AutoResolve
  • Sneaking within an enemy's sightrange, unspotted
  • Attacking with a knife, in Tactical Combat
  • Dodging a knife attack, in Tactical Combat
  • Any attempt at stealing
  • Attacking with a punch/blunt, in Tactical Combat
  • Dodging a punch/blunt attack, in tactical combat
  • Avoiding being shot, in tactical combat (due to an enemy miss and/or obstacles)

ACTIVITIES THAT INCREASE DEXTERITY

  • Healing wounded mercs as a Doctor
  • Repairing items
  • Unjamming weapons, in both Tactical and AutoResolve
  • Bandaging mercs
  • Successfully picking a lock
  • Throwing knives, in Tactical Combat
  • Attacking with a knife, in Tactical Combat
  • Dodging a knife attack, in tactical combat
  • Any attempts at stealing
  • Attacking with a punch/blunt, in Tactical Combat
  • Dodging a punch/blunt attack, in tactical combat
  • Throwing grenades at one or more targets, in Tactical Combat

ACTIVITIES THAT INCREASE WISDOM

  • Healing mercs as a Doctor
  • Training Militia and other mercs
  • Being trained and practising alone
  • Locating hidden items on a map
  • Detecting mines and traps
  • Disarming mines and traps
  • Combining items together
  • Attaching items that require a difficult Mechanical check
  • Attaching a detonator to an explosive
  • Successfully picking a lock

ACTIVITIES THAT INCREASE MARKSMANSHIP

  • Any attack in Autoresolve
  • Any shot that hits in Autoresolve
  • Any Melee/knife attack that hits, in Autoresolve
  • Any lock blasted open
  • Firing a gun / throwing a knife in Tactical mode
  • Hitting a target with a gun/thrown-knife in Tactical mode
  • Extra aiming when hitting a target with a gun/thrown-knife in tactical mode
  • Throwing grenades at one or more targets, in Tactical Combat

ACTIVITIES THAT INCREASE LEADERSHIP

  • Training Militia and other mercs
  • Issuing orders to Militia in Tactical Mode

ACTIVITIES THAT INCREASE EXPLOSIVES

  • Planting an explosive or mine (successfully or not)
  • Hitting targets with an explosive/grenade, in Tactical mode
  • Detecting a boobytrap or mine
  • Disarming a boobytrap or mine
  • Attaching detonators to explosives

ACTIVITIES THAT INCREASE MECHANICAL

  • Repairing Items
  • Unjamming guns, in repair mode or tactical
  • Combining items
  • Attaching items that require a Mechanical skill check
  • Successfully picking a lock

ACTIVITIES THAT INCREASE MEDICAL

  • Healing mercs as a Doctor
  • Bandaging mercs in Autoresolve or Tactical Combat

ACTIVITIES THAT INCREASE EXPERIENCE LEVEL

  • Being hit in AutoResolve.
  • Killing targets in AutoResolve
  • Assisting a kill in Autoresolve
  • Spotting an enemy without being spotted first
  • Spotting an attacker who's already spotted you
  • Killing targets in Tactical Combat
  • Assisting a kill in Tactical Combat
  • Taking damage in Tactical Combat
  • Completing specific quests

[Updated on: Sat, 11 October 2008 20:08] by Moderator



Re: "How does it work?" Part 7b: Gaining Chances to Level Up[message #197295] Thu, 25 September 2008 20:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smeagol

 
Messages:2713
Registered:June 2008
Location: Bremen, Germany
Headrock

LOCATING HIDDEN ITEMS

I don't think I've ever found a hidden item - these are items that are invisible, until you try to interact with the tile they are in. I actually didn't know it was possible, and seriously, I wouldn't bother looking for them myself. But I guess, if you have lots of time on your hands, have fun.

  • 5 chances to advance in Wisdom, if picked up a hidden item


Master Headrock, I used the hidden item feature extensively in the WF mod. It's far easier to find hidden things, then you assume. Just press the CTRL button on your keyboard and once the hand-like cursor appears it will turn red, as soon as it finds a tile where an item is hidden. Thus these hiddden items are quite easy to find and thanks to the wisdom that can be gained from it, it's quite worth it. And in addition some of these items tend to be quite usefull (at least if you don't play with drop all, that is...).

Okay, have to read the rest of your fabulous work. Smile


Re: "How does it work?" Part 7b: Gaining Chances to Level Up[message #197298] Thu, 25 September 2008 20:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1795
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
Quote:
(at least if you don't play with drop all, that is...).


Hahahah, I do, actually... I love items and want to get as many as possible Wink But passing my cursor over all those goddamn tiles is just too much, I even hardly open containers anymore. I guess if I ever get to play WF, I'll have something to look for Very Happy


Re: "How does it work?" Part 7b: Gaining Chances to Level Up[message #197316] Thu, 25 September 2008 23:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smeagol

 
Messages:2713
Registered:June 2008
Location: Bremen, Germany
After gaining all neccessary equipment the hard way, I also started playing with drop all activated, but mostly for money reasons. 95% of the drops get sold immediately via Alt+LMB. Otherwise it becomes really hard to pay 5-6 high profile A.I.M. dudes with the low income the mines offer... only downside to this is, that you really get lazy killing the enemies (that is I stopped using all the fun tactics to rob enemies).

Ah well... current game is almost finished anyways. Already have 97 progress and taken the first Meduna sector. Even Shank is already Lvl 9.

You should really give the WF maps a try, btw. Wink


Re: "How does it work?" Part 7b: Gaining Chances to Level Up[message #197324] Fri, 26 September 2008 00:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1795
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
Quote:
Otherwise it becomes really hard to pay 5-6 high profile A.I.M. dudes with the low income the mines offer...


That's why I made a mod to increase mine income Very Happy

Quote:
only downside to this is, that you really get lazy killing the enemies (that is I stopped using all the fun tactics to rob enemies).


I've never robbed enemies. I can't get it to work, anyways. They always end up shooting me. I prefer taking things by force. I prefer the tactical work in attaining good firing positions and taking out the enemy as quickly as possible. So I set it to drop all, I get good equipment for my mercs to use, I buy the rest from BR, and like you I recruit only the cream of the crop. Naturally, I also set the game to 60% elites on "Experienced" mode. Very Happy Otherwise where's the challenge.


Re: "How does it work?" Part 7b: Gaining Chances to Level Up[message #197345] Fri, 26 September 2008 03:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1795
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
BTW thanks to MM for stickying all of these articles. I feel like I'm crowding the general discussion forum though Very Happy


Re: "How does it work?" Part 7b: Gaining Chances to Level Up[message #197347] Fri, 26 September 2008 04:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marlboro Man

 
Messages:1268
Registered:October 2005
Location: USA
We need to give you your own section is all. Wink Maybe Shanga can create you one. Wink



Don't worry about clogging this area up at all, it's good to have worth while stuff to read and have.


Re: "How does it work?" Part 7b: Gaining Chances to Level Up[message #197350] Fri, 26 September 2008 04:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1795
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
Quote:
Maybe Shanga can create you one.


Oh dear, no. That wouldn't be a very good idea. I think it would be better to put this on some respectable wiki. Actually, the pbwiki would be a better idea than here in the forum. See, people can still enter these threads and debate the information, but they could also go read it at a more "Stable" website like the pbwiki. Then the threads can be unstickied here once they've spent some time up, but none of the data actually gets lost. Smile

Seriously though, if you talk to Shanga it's far more important that you mention I would like to change my avatar.

http://www.bookgallery.co.il/JA2PublicPosts/badge1.gif

Very Happy

Everything else is on lower priority. Very Happy


Re: "How does it work?" Part 7b: Gaining Chances to Level Up[message #197358] Fri, 26 September 2008 06:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marlboro Man

 
Messages:1268
Registered:October 2005
Location: USA
Put it all at JAG too. Wink


Re: "How does it work?" Part 7b: Gaining Chances to Level Up[message #197361] Fri, 26 September 2008 06:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1795
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
Sure. What's that?


Re: "How does it work?" Part 7b: Gaining Chances to Level Up[message #197376] Fri, 26 September 2008 13:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Marlboro Man

 
Messages:1268
Registered:October 2005
Location: USA
Uhmmm, JAGalaxy. Or newly named Jag Reloaded. The site Shanga has brushed the cobwebs off and breathed some new life into. If you look at the very top of this forum you will see a JAG dogtag, click it and you will see. Smile


Otherwise go here.
http://www.jagalaxy.com/phpfaq/index.php


Re: "How does it work?" Part 7b: Gaining Chances to Level Up[message #197383] Fri, 26 September 2008 15:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lockie

 
Messages:3965
Registered:February 2006
Location: Scotland
Quote:
Seriously though, if you talk to Shanga it's far more important that you mention I would like to change my avatar.


Though to what , young Jedi ? Any preferences , or can he 'christen' you as he wants ? mmwwaahhhaa! :diabolical:

A head half covered with a ( dare I say ) sock !! Very Happy


Re: "How does it work?" Part 7b: Gaining Chances to Level Up[message #197433] Fri, 26 September 2008 21:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hitcher

 
Messages:12
Registered:January 2000
Location: Vienna, Austria
I still remember that increasing Health by travelling overland used to work in the early version(s) of JA2. This bug apparently got introduced by a patch somehow, but Ian Currie himself was a bit dumbfounded when I mentioned that back on the original JA2 forum. I'm surprised it hasn't been noticed and fixed by the 1.13 team until now.

[Updated on: Fri, 26 September 2008 21:14] by Moderator

Re: "How does it work?" Part 7b: Gaining Chances to Level Up[message #197918] Thu, 02 October 2008 12:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
FelixDrake

 
Messages:33
Registered:September 2008
Headrock
I've never robbed enemies. I can't get it to work, anyways. They always end up shooting me. I prefer taking things by force.

Alright, time for me to give equipment theft, 101

Method 1
Perp comes around the corner, you either shoot their legs out from under them (if they are in the standing position, it does NOT work in crouched or prone), then have another merc grab their stuff when they are down.

Method 2
Spot someone who does not know you are there. Get someone quiet and sneaky like to slip behind them, get close, then run the last few squares and beat the tar out of them. Once you have made them collapse from punches/kicks (and maybe one more hit for good luck), they generally do not get up for at least one turn. This is because they are out of energy and can't change stance (kind of like when you get hit with a stun grenade) which brings us to ...

Method 3
Toss a stun grenade (maybe more if there are multiple targets). Run up, preferably with 2 or more mercs, beat them down a bit, and grab as you do.

Method 4
Get someone to chase after one of your mercs as he runs away... straight into interrupts at night.
One of the interrupting mercs shoots the target, either in the head (to suppress AP and interrupting your interrupt) or in the legs if standing to knock them to the ground. Other interrupting parties run up close, or preferrably lay in a few punches. There is a risk here that the interrupted merc will still have enough AP to shoot you (usually one unaimed shot, point blank).

A few things to remember:
1)pack enough sniper backup to blow away anyone who spots you because you're running up to go mano a mano with that elite there.
2)Injuries happen during weapon/item stealing. Comes with the territory, just make sure they don't lose stats or die... and save it for those foes you think have something worth stealing.
3)you can not rob an enemy that is at 'dying' status.
4)if someone is standing, you can get his gun, maybe... if they are lying down, you can grab, well, everything... and are advised to.
5)Not only do injuries happen during weapon/item stealing, but death can too. If you have already had great fortune and are playing iron man, you may not want to risk it. If I sneak up behind an elite, beat him up, and steal, say, a c-7 pre 1.13 (I don't know the 1.13 equivelant yet, as i'm playing on reasonably nasty settings and that makes progress slow), I will play things as safe as possible for the rest of the map (or retreat with the loot so far, save up, and come in fresh).
Re: "How does it work?" Part 7b: Gaining Chances to Level Up[message #197924] Thu, 02 October 2008 15:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cougar

 
Messages:260
Registered:March 2000
Check out my guide on stealing, should contain a few valuable tips in addition to FelixDrake's suggestions. Stealing is one of the things that makes me come back to JA2 as it is my favorite pasttime.
Re: "How does it work?" Part 7b: Gaining Chances to Level Up[message #197925] Thu, 02 October 2008 15:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1795
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
@Felixdrake:

Somehow killing them and taking the equipment from their cold dead hands sounds so much simpler Very Happy

@Cougar:

Errr... what?


Re: "How does it work?" Part 7b: Gaining Chances to Level Up[message #197927] Thu, 02 October 2008 15:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cougar

 
Messages:260
Registered:March 2000
Should be ok now, I messed up the link. Smile

Re: "How does it work?" Part 7b: Gaining Chances to Level Up[message #197928] Thu, 02 October 2008 16:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1795
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
I'm just on the verge of finishing a campaign where I haven't used Bobby Ray's at all, but with Drop-All on. I must say that in comparison with past games where I didn't use drop-all but did buy frivolously from BR, this campaign was far more enjoyable. You never know what you're going to get, but you seriously need whatever drops because there's nowhere else to buy it. Far better than stealing, anyday, IMHO.


Re: "How does it work?" Part 7b: Gaining Chances to Level Up[message #197929] Thu, 02 October 2008 16:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1795
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
You know, there's something odd about the article here. It seems like I've completely missed whatever it is that gives level-ups in Strength and Health when moving around in tactical mode. Or perhaps it's the same calculation as that used for moving between sectors? One easy way to solve this question:

In 1.13, there's a bug that prohibits gaining health through moving about. Health only increases when being shot. However, I've fixed health levelups for strategic movement for my HAM project. So if you've been playing a lot of 1.13 lately, the question is for you: When running around a TACTICAL map, do your mercs occasionally gain health, or only strength?


Re: "How does it work?" Part 7b: Gaining Chances to Level Up[message #197931] Thu, 02 October 2008 16:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Cafu

 
Messages:39
Registered:February 2008
Location: Finnland, very north
Headrock
You know, there's something odd about the article here. It seems like I've completely missed whatever it is that gives level-ups in Strength and Health when moving around in tactical mode. Or perhaps it's the same calculation as that used for moving between sectors? One easy way to solve this question:

In 1.13, there's a bug that prohibits gaining health through moving about. Health only increases when being shot. However, I've fixed health levelups for strategic movement for my HAM project. So if you've been playing a lot of 1.13 lately, the question is for you: When running around a TACTICAL map, do your mercs occasionally gain health, or only strength?


When you pack merc over 100% load you should gain health and strength, but health gain is very slow.
But you gain health only by manually moving them in tactical screen. Plus being shot or getting damage from explosives.

Why not merge this H.A.M to v1.13? or at least some part of it ..
Re: "How does it work?" Part 7b: Gaining Chances to Level Up[message #197940] Thu, 02 October 2008 18:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1795
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
Quote:
But you gain health only by manually moving them in tactical screen.


Ok, that means I did miss something. I'll have to look for it somehow.

Quote:
Why not merge this H.A.M to v1.13? or at least some part of it ..


It hasn't even been released as Alpha yet...


Re: "How does it work?" Part 7b: Gaining Chances to Level Up[message #198892] Sat, 11 October 2008 20:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1795
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
UPDATE:

Added experience gain for physical exertion in tactical mode (Health and Strength increases)


Re: "How does it work?" Part 7b: Gaining Chances to Level Up[message #198953] Sun, 12 October 2008 19:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wounded Ronin

 
Messages:79
Registered:August 2006
Very cool article.
Re: "How does it work?" Part 7b: Gaining Chances to Level Up[message #200151] Mon, 27 October 2008 13:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
FelixDrake

 
Messages:33
Registered:September 2008
Thank you, Cougar. Most of what was there I sort of already did, but I did NOT know about taking someone from dying back to critical THEN stealing from them. It has made a HUGE difference in iron man mode for stealing. (stealing is a LOT harder in iron man mode).

Prying the items from their cold, dead fingers IS easier, but is SIGNIFICANTLY less rewarding unless you make the game easier by turning on drop all, which is WAY less fun.
You see, stealing involves risk. Risk makes things harder and more fun. Stealing always HAS been a way to get those things that only avarice can make you risk someone's life for.
Pre 1.13, I had a game where having taken Drassen, the Drassen SAM site, and Cambria, I had 3!!!! C-7 assault rifles. Arguably the best gun in the game at the time (I also had a FN-FALs but the C-7s were what was gonna get the rod and springs). On the flip side, Dmitri was down about 15 dex, and Razor died bravely providing a body shield for someone else as they filched one of said C-7s.
Think of it like you're running the 'pirates and ninja' mod which comes built in :viking: :karate:
It's a whole new aspect to learn and have fun with.
Re: "How does it work?" Part 7b: Gaining Chances to Level Up[message #232148] Sun, 30 August 2009 18:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Laclongquan

 
Messages:76
Registered:April 2007
EXP LEVEL :

1. So you are sure about only four quests, what about all the rest? 15+, if I count correctly.

2. In killing Bug Queen, it seem each and every conscious merc on that map must shoot at her to get the assist EXP gain. Because in that map, I got only four with depleted guns (shooting dry through 6 maps), so I send my most adept, also most stealthy, level 9, IMP sneak in through the various buggers in there, plant 2 C4 with two more TNT for good measure around the queen. Pressing the Remote detonator and all the bugs burst along with the Queen. No one level up at all (3 at lvl 7, 1 at 9). Easy peasy but welcome after the underground fighting.
Re: "How does it work?" Part 7b: Gaining Chances to Level Up[message #232149] Sun, 30 August 2009 18:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1795
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
1. If they don't have some other tangible reward, then nothing. But most if not all quests have some tangible reward. Usually local loyalty.

2. Killing the queen rewards you with 400 chances for EXP Level. At level 7, this translates to about 40*30%=120 chances. To go from level 7 to level 8 takes 350*7 points = 2450. So even if you do win 400 sub-points, that only gives you about 1/5 of the amount you need to level up.


Re: "How does it work?" Part 7b: Gaining Chances to Level Up[message #236215] Thu, 29 October 2009 01:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
futrtrubl
Messages:2
Registered:October 2009
Location: Kingston, Jamaica
Question about skill gains from doctoring

Damage_Healed = Amount of damage healed for all patients * 10
Number_of_Chances for Medical = Damage Healed / 100
Number_of_Chances for Dexterity = Damage Healed / 100
Number_of_Chances for Wisdom = Damage Healed / 100

If a good doc gets about 10Hp healing per hour then he'll get about 1 chance to level up in each skill per hour, not the 1 chance per Hp healed you state in the explanation.

Damage_Healed = 10*10 = 100
Num_Chances = 100/100 = 1

Any clarification?
Re: "How does it work?" Part 7b: Gaining Chances to Level Up[message #248449] Sat, 03 April 2010 18:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Panopticon

 
Messages:30
Registered:May 2007
A question here. That I hope somebody will see even if this seems like quite a deserted thread. Wink

Since I like to get all my mercs up to a good standard I often choose to work with the worst one first. Especially in the case of marksmanship since that is a quite important trait. Razz

Anyway I saw this and did some number crunching to see how I should use him (Maddog in this case since I forgot to pick him up early.) to get his mrk up quickly and the ideal (disregarding the aiming bonus) seem to be to shoot at people with a chance-to-hit of above 80%. That will get him a little over 600 number-of-chances for every 100 shots fired.

But then it hit me. No pun intended. Razz What if I don't rely on him to kill my enemies but just "train" him in combat while the others do the actual killing? So if I don't arm him with an assault rifle but instead let him carry 2 9mm Agram SMG's and just let him dump his clips in the general direction of the enemy. Would that net him even more? The question here is if the number-of-chances is calculated for every bullet fired or for every time the trigger is pulled? So will his mrk skyrocket with him using 2 Agrams on autofire or will it be pointless doing it like that?

And I do realize I have to hit every now and then to push me over the limit to the next level but lets just forget that part for now. Smile
Re: "How does it work?" Part 7b: Gaining Chances to Level Up[message #248450] Sat, 03 April 2010 18:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
usrbid

 
Messages:1580
Registered:December 2008
The way Headrock wrote it, it feels like per action not per shot. Now I could be wrong about this, but from my experience with Haywire and Dynamo, it feels it is per action not per bullet as well.

By the way, what mod are you playing which lets you auto fire two guns at the same time? 1.13 allows you to single shot both, but I know only of Demise of Man that lets you full auto two guns.


Re: "How does it work?" Part 7b: Gaining Chances to Level Up[message #248456] Sat, 03 April 2010 19:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1795
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
It's actually a very good question, and the answer is I have no idea. From what I can understand, it's likely that EVERY bullet in a burst will give a few "chances" for leveling up. Of course, an intentional hit is worth more chances, so I guess in the end it boils down to mathematics, and to how many bullets you want to spend. There might be a way to circumvent this somehow. In any case, I guess the only want to really know would be to debug it.


Re: "How does it work?" Part 7b: Gaining Chances to Level Up[message #248467] Sun, 04 April 2010 03:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Panopticon

 
Messages:30
Registered:May 2007
Headrock: My thought was that since you wrote "If the shot's going to hit.." it's more likely that it is per bullet and not action. In a burst there could be a lot of hits or a lot of misses and the chance-to-hit that is also used in the calculation changes between the bullets..

And I did the mathematics. For 100 bullets fired the maximum chances you get is a little more than 600. 612 chances seems to be close to max when you fire shots with 90% chance to hit. But if you get 3 chances for every bullet even if it misses you would "only" need to spend twice as many bullets to get the same amount of chances. In most gunfights a merc will only shoot 2 or 3 shots each round against an enemy (at least in this stage of the game). If my "training-merc" instead just uses full auto on the first round of contact he will easily crank out a lot more than double that. Lets say 12 bullets with all misses, that would give me 12x3=36 chances for one round. 2 hits in one round instead gives roughly 2x(3+3)=12 chances. A significant difference. Smile And about the amount of bullets used, I doubt I'm the only one here that drowns in 9mm mags after a battle..

I could also point out that it seems to be something strange with the aiming bonus..

   Experience_Gain is increased by CTH_Bonus
   If spent extra aiming APs, then
      If Experience_Gain is greater than APs_Spent_on_Aiming, then
         Aiming_Bonus = APs_Spent_on_Aiming
      Else,
         Aiming_Bonus = Experience_Gain
      Experience_Gain is increased by Aiming_Bonus


Those last two lines there.. Aiming-bonus = Experience-gain and then Experience-gain is increased by Aiming-bonus. In most cases this would just mean that Experience-gain doubles, but if you hit with a very low chance-to-hit you would instead get the lower value (in most cases probably the same value but rounded down) Experience-gain + AP-spent-on-aiming. Is it supposed to be like that? Or am I reading that bit of pseudo code wrong?
And I would also say it's kind of bug-like if I read it correct. If I spend 1 AP on aiming I get that doubling of the Experience-gain even at point blank and 99% chance-to-hit but if I don't aim I don't get it doubled... Seems wrong to me..

Dieter: I haven't actually tried anything like this so I just assumed that I could autofire two guns but I guess I can't do it like that but autofiring one gun would still amount to a lot of bullets so it might work just as good.

[Updated on: Sun, 04 April 2010 03:40] by Moderator

Re: "How does it work?" Part 7b: Gaining Chances to Level Up[message #248471] Sun, 04 April 2010 10:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1795
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
Quote:
In most cases this would just mean that Experience-gain doubles, but if you hit with a very low chance-to-hit you would instead get the lower value


Here are the three options:

  • If you fire a shot that misses, you get 3 points.
  • If you fire a shot that intentionally hits without extra aiming, you get 6 points, plus 1 point for every 25% CTH below 100 (rounded DOWN). That's a max of 9 points, although actually getting 9 is very unlikely.
  • If you fire a shot that intentionally hits with extra aiming, you get 6 points, plus 1 point for every 25% CTH below 100, plus (1 point for every aiming level, or 1 point for every 25% CTH below 100, whichever is lower). So basically, it's up to 12, although it's highly unlikely to actually get 12.

Let's see some examples for the third option:

  • 3 extra aiming levels, shooting at 99% CTH: 6 + 0 + min( 3, 0 ) = 6
  • 3 extra aiming levels, shooting at 20% CTH: 6 + 3 + min( 3, 3 ) = 12
  • 2 extra aiming levels, shooting at 75% CTH: 6 + 1 + min( 2, 1 ) = 8
  • 2 extra aiming levels, shooting at 50% CTH: 6 + 2 + min( 2, 2 ) = 10
  • 1 extra aiming level, shooting at 100% CTH: 6 + 0 + min( 1, 0 ) = 6
  • 1 extra aiming level, shooting at 1% CTH: 6 + 3 + min( 1, 3 ) = 10

In other words, extra aiming increases your experience, but only if it doesn't increase CTH too high, which is kind of contradictory, but that's how the formula works. However, you always get at least 2 more "experience chances" for aiming as long as CTH is 75% or less. If it's above 75%, you get no bonus (I.E. the basic 6 chances). Adding more than 3 aiming levels doesn't help increase experience gain.


Re: "How does it work?" Part 7b: Gaining Chances to Level Up[message #248477] Sun, 04 April 2010 14:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Panopticon

 
Messages:30
Registered:May 2007
Ahh.. Of course it's always rounded down. It's chances. You can't have half a chance. Stupid me. Razz At least if those numbers there are stored as integers, if they are stored as decimal numbers you could end up with 0.6 from the CTH and then 0.6 again if you aim for a total of 1.2 which is then rounded down to 1. But I guess they have made it with integers. Not that it really matters that much anyway. Smile

But I read it the right way then (except for the rounding stupidity) and it feels really strange to have that part there. It makes the optimal level-gain/bullet to take shots with at least one AP to aim and 75% CTH. (It gives 675 numbers of chances for 100 shots fired) Hmm. Can't really see any logic behind it..

But that doesn't really matter so much for my initial question. Debugging the code isn't trivial but if I try this thing in game right after I gain my next mrk level I should be able to figure out if it's per bullet fired or per action taken.. If it's per bullet I should be able to increase my mrk one point more very soon after that if I use a *beep*load of bullets..
With 25 advancement-points needed for a level and I think Maddog have around 70 in mrk so his chance to succeed with a chance would be 30%. That would mean I need somewhere around 75 chances to gain one lvl. With 3 chances per bullet I would need to spend around 25 bullets, lets say 1 mag, to gain one level. It shouldn't take long to see if it works..

[Updated on: Sun, 04 April 2010 14:17] by Moderator

Re: "How does it work?" Part 7b: Gaining Chances to Level Up[message #248480] Sun, 04 April 2010 15:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1795
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
Quote:
At least if those numbers there are stored as integers


Throughout the code, expect everything to be rounded down after EACH calculation, unless stated otherwise.


Re: "How does it work?" Part 7b: Gaining Chances to Level Up[message #248846] Fri, 09 April 2010 00:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Panopticon

 
Messages:30
Registered:May 2007
Tried it out and I'm happy to announce that you get chances per action and not per bullet so there is no way to exploit the engine to gain levels in marksmanship faster by going autofire. Good old killing is the way to go. Smile
Re: "How does it work?" Part 7b: Gaining Chances to Level Up[message #248849] Fri, 09 April 2010 02:39 Go to previous message
Headrock

 
Messages:1795
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
Good to hear, though I still can't figure out WHY. I must've missed some loop somewhere. But I will debug this eventually, just to be absolutely sure Wink .


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