Home » PLAYER'S HQ 1.13 » v1.13 Combat/Weapon Academy » "Best of the Best" - 1.13 Weapon Comparison Guide
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| Re: "Best of the Best" - 1.13 Weapon Comparison Guide[message #234483]
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Mon, 05 October 2009 23:00  
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 Schmidt |
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Messages:30
Registered:September 2009
Location: Br |
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My 2 cents: Whoever drew up the weapon stats was a f*****ing russophile who needs to be smashed hard with a Kalashnikov.
AK-47 is a rugged pos assault rifle for barely literate dunderheads. That it's in-game accuracy is 5, the same as M-16 proves that the person who wrote the stats either knows shit about guns, or is a Russophile, and thus needs his head checked out.
If M-16 is 5, AK-47 should be about two or three. I hear that M-16 gets maybe 3-4 MOA out of the box, with AK-47's it's perhaps 6 at best. Yeah, and the QBZ-97 may actually be pretty accurate, but got accuracy of 3. And shotguns can be silenced very well.. and so on.
Same goes for Mosin and Kar-98k. They're at least of comparable accuracy, and Mosin-Nagant's notoriously hard to operate bolt(joke is, you need a 2-by-4) should reflect in some AP penalty.
I know a bit about guns, so I'll try fixing those errors. Weird things like not being able to lenghten revolver barrels too..(though, I'd ditch all barrel extenders. Quick glue and duct tape are indeed what gunsmiths use. Maybe add a HAM facility that would make gunsmithing possible..)
The AET ammo is suspect too. A cursory web search makes me think it's a wholly fictional concept, as AET in real world means frangible. Like the glaser ammo. Not AP at all, in fact the opposite of AP.
If anyone wishes the corrected file for Wildfire 6.06, I'll gladly send him. Feel free to bug me to finish the task quickly, as I'm an expert procrastinator ..
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Private 1st Class
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| Re: "Best of the Best" - 1.13 Weapon Comparison Guide[message #234522]
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Tue, 06 October 2009 10:28
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| Starwalker |
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Messages:759
Registered:October 2005
Location: Hannover, Germany |
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SchmidtAK-47 is a rugged pos assault rifle for barely literate dunderheads. That it's in-game accuracy is 5, the same as M-16 proves that the person who wrote the stats either knows shit about guns, or is a Russophile, and thus needs his head checked out.
What mod are you playing? In basic 1.13 the AK-47 has an accuracy of 4, whereas the M16 (both versions) has 5.
BTW, the accuracy stat is based on pistols (so they are the baseline), which mostly have an accuracy of 0. If a gun is designed for use with 2 hands, it gets accuracy 2, if it is designed for 2 hands and has a shoulderstock, it gets accuracy 5. So an accuracy of 5 is /basic accuracy/ for almost any rifle, and the accuracy of 4 means that the AK-47 has already been penalized for lower accuracy.
SchmidtSame goes for Mosin and Kar-98k. They're at least of comparable accuracy, and Mosin-Nagant's notoriously hard to operate bolt(joke is, you need a 2-by-4) should reflect in some AP penalty.
Thanks for the hint, I increased the value a bit. Comes with my next upload.
SchmidtWeird things like not being able to lenghten revolver barrels too..
Replacing the barrel for a longer or shorter one would need a merge, and it means that every barrel length a revolver comes in would need to be a separate item (and the separate barrels as well would need to be items...). We simply did not want to flood items.xml with that many items.
Schmidtthough, I'd ditch all barrel extenders. Quick glue and duct tape are indeed what gunsmiths use.
I think the same about the barrel extenders, but they are an original JA2-item, and thus they stay. I'm am happy enough that I could get through the change with the Rod&Spring...
SchmidtThe AET ammo is suspect too. A cursory web search makes me think it's a wholly fictional concept, as AET in real world means frangible. Like the glaser ammo. Not AP at all, in fact the opposite of AP.
Madd Mugsy, the original author of 1.13, used "AET" (supposed to mean Advanced Energy Transfer) to describe bullets that have the ability to penetrate armor but transfer most/all of their energy to soft tissue. The term is very seldomly used in that way, that's why you do not find it on the net, it has been changed in the meantime to describe frangible ammo, as you found out already.
In 1.13, AET means ammo like THV, CIB/SIB (which achieve their effect through their shape) and the special 4.6x30 and 5.7x28mm bullets (which get their effect from their material composition).
And try to be a bit more polite next time, offending people does not get you far on this forum.
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| Re: "Best of the Best" - 1.13 Weapon Comparison Guide[message #234538]
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Tue, 06 October 2009 14:27
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| Schmidt |
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Messages:30
Registered:September 2009
Location: Br |
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Hmm. I play Wildfire with the Smeagols item mod.. that means I have Smeagols stats, right?
Wildfire, I knew it's by Russians, but it is for everyone.. A great improvement over basic JA2 maps, I would say, and I sort of hope its gameplay and maps will become standard. Apart from the crummy new mercs with so-so art and atrocious voice-acting.
The 5.7mm ammo and 4.6mm is somewhat ridiculed by shooters. Hard to get an objective view, since you cant really go down to a shop and get it, most places. Ill take a good look.. as the damage for 1 gram 4.6 mm AP bullet being almost the same as for 5.56mm round that sort of falls apart on impact(US 5.56 rounds.. ).
The one headshot.. should not always kill. Most of the time, yes... especially with higher calibers.
A glancing shot, or through the jaw, or really a small calibre at low speed, or a really good helmet.. should make it survivable at times, not all the time. Rifles are best though. The Dragunov is one shot, one kill in most cases, with the Wildfire mod.
As I said .22 to the head is survivable sometimes, and a lot of people if given intensive care right after survived higher calibers...
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I haven't read about THV ammo before. Pretty close fit to AET. Too bad there is not a separate stat for barrel wear. The range should be shorter, the THV ammo is short ranged.. and maybe not silent in subsonic calibers, as its supposed to be faster..
BTW, the weapon list is compatible between mods?
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Private 1st Class
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| Re: "Best of the Best" - 1.13 Weapon Comparison Guide[message #234544]
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Tue, 06 October 2009 16:45
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| Starwalker |
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Messages:759
Registered:October 2005
Location: Hannover, Germany |
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SchmidtHmm. I play Wildfire with the Smeagols item mod.. that means I have Smeagols stats, right?
Yes and no, it depends on how much he deviated from basic 1.13.
SchmidtI haven't read about THV ammo before. Pretty close fit to AET. Too bad there is not a separate stat for barrel wear. The range should be shorter, the THV ammo is short ranged.. and maybe not silent in subsonic calibers, as its supposed to be faster..
Being called "very fast" in French means their range should not be too short (although they slow down easily due to their comparatively low weight). I'd think that for pistols and SMGs, the slowdown is negligible and thus I did not give them a decreased range.
THV bullets exist in two rifle calibers as well, but I did not implement those for gamebalance purposes.
The AET ammo is meant to make pistols suitable for the later game, anyway, so that they do not become obsolete as fast as they do in vanilla JA2.
SchmidtBTW, the weapon list is compatible between mods?
Some mods come with their own weapons, most just add on basic 1.13's list (with some changes), but some (like vengeance) change the available weapons quite some.
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| Re: "Best of the Best" - 1.13 Weapon Comparison Guide[message #235146]
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Thu, 15 October 2009 10:08
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| Starwalker |
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Messages:759
Registered:October 2005
Location: Hannover, Germany |
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DeFateQuestion regarding OSV-96 anti material rifle.
In this (25AP System) guide it's listed with:
Draw: 7
Firing: 15
(so it was possible to draw and fire...not to reload though)
With the 100 AP system it's now (if i recall correctly):
Draw: 35 (x5)
Firing: 70 (x4,7)
(now impossible to draw and fire...and barely enough to fire and reload when already drawn)
Compared to the Barret it got a huge performance hit.
Did you take the chance with changing to 100AP to rebalance weapons or is it a mistake?
Yes, i know how to change it if i don't like it that way...but that's not the point. I don't want to spoil my game if there is a reason for things done that way that i'm just to dumb to see 
I must admit, those anti material rifles are a difficult matter. One shot kills are always a pain to balance against something else...and the range they are shooting makes it worse.
Maybe anything above .338 Lapua should be removed.
But since they are there...*sigh* i just love the big hits
My older calculations put the OSV-96 at 47 Draw-AP and 64 AP to fire, unfortunately I do not have my newest weapon spreadsheet with me at this time (looks like it has 48 Draw-AP at the moment in weapons.xml).
Basically, with the sum of Draw-AP and Singleshot-AP going over 100, you need to spend a turn to set up your big rifle before you can shoot. It is just a bit too big to be raised and fired in one turn...
This should be true for other things as well, like mortars and RPGs, but those have drawing integrated into the animation, so I cannot do it with those.
But I'll have a look at it again when I get to my stuff.
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| Re: "Best of the Best" - 1.13 Weapon Comparison Guide[message #235243]
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Fri, 16 October 2009 03:00
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JA2 Fanatici think the TMP is exactly what i need, iam currently running a game of HAM with WF and AIM, think if i add dbb mod on top that wont work too well.
the TMP sounds perfect, doest matter if its the swiss copy/modification. there is not too much difference anyways. That would surely end in.... :rip:
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| Re: "Best of the Best" - 1.13 Weapon Comparison Guide[message #235285]
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Fri, 16 October 2009 16:02
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| DeFate |
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Messages:4
Registered:October 2009 |
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Fine 
Another question regarding weapon stats:
What's the effect of the value "Deadliness" exactly?
The higher, the better...ok.
But i wonder which calculation makes use of it? chance to instant kill or something like that?
Edit: just remembered in which thread i'm posting. If it's too far off topic let me know
Edit2: NM, found it in the Wiki "ubDeadliness - this is the "scare" value of the gun. Mercs complain if their guns are too low in this."
[Updated on: Fri, 16 October 2009 17:34] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Civilian
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| Re: "Best of the Best" - 1.13 Weapon Comparison Guide[message #237091]
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Sun, 08 November 2009 17:58
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| Schmidt |
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Messages:30
Registered:September 2009
Location: Br |
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Yeah. There is a problem with damage modelling in JA. You hit someone's spine or hind brain with 5.7x27 or 7.62x51, it doesn't really matter. He's a goner. But if it hits a non vital area, the 5.7x27 is sort of non-critical. 7.62 AP is pretty humane too.. it zips through people just like that... and a .12g slug is another kettle of fish entirely. There are ballistic gelatin pics somewhere.. has to be seen to be believed.
I wonder, would it be possible to include a routine and an option into the ini file (or externalize the data into additional xml) the source that would handle damage differently. Say, if the shot was 90+ CTH, the damage would go up with every additional AP spent aiming. Like when a sniper instead of shooting just at a target nails him right between the eyes.
So, a F&N P90 or the MP7 would still be pretty nifty, as it has very rapid fire, low burst penalty, light etc.. but it's just a sort of pistol round. Not a rifle, or assault rifle.
I know the game is(as someone said) more 'tacticool'.. but if I really wanted totally unrealistic guns, I could code myself the GaussGun from Fallout and be done with it.
Here's somene else's writeup, unfortunately, the videos no longer work.
http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/PDWdebunk.html
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Private 1st Class
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| Re: "Best of the Best" - 1.13 Weapon Comparison Guide[message #241344]
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Thu, 07 January 2010 00:06
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| LordHaHa |
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Messages:17
Registered:November 2005
Location: Midwest, USA |
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StarwalkerKaerarIt was a high velocity AP round originally, it's damage wasn't huge, but it turned out to be effective. The civilian class rounds are not as good as the milspec ammo though.
The military 5.7x28mm round (the SS190) is armor piercing and also tumbling. It has an aluminum body with a steel tip, encased in a steel jacket.
Civilian rounds are of ordinary makeup (lead body with brass/copper jacket).
Interesting. The milspec round is lighter, but has the solid construction and speed nessessary to penetrate better NIJ-grades of armor than its weight should allow. I don't know how the aluminum would affect terminal ballistics, though. I know that Mark 7 British .303 ammo incorporated aluminum or cork in the upper third of the tip of the bullet (under the jacketing). It had the effect of making the bullet VERY UNSTABLE once it penetrated into flesh. Take the tumbling ability of a modern spitzer/boat-tail bullet, and amp it up. Very potent. But, this is a full aluminum core round; the .303 effect was contingent generally on a light tip with a heavy base.
Civvie 5.7 wouldn't be too bad, either, though it seems to be around 500 ft/s slower and thus unable to penetrate any decent vest; also the SS197 round (basically a Hornady V-Max) doesn't feed well in a P90, from what I have heard. Organic penetration in general doesn't seem to be the round's strong suit; the milspec 190 gets a desireable 13 inches, but only if there isn't any armor in front of it. It only got 9 inches with a Level-II vest in the way (you want at least 12" or more). The slower civvie rounds definately won't get the job done.
LordHaHa
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Private
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| Re: "Best of the Best" - 1.13 Weapon Comparison Guide[message #251282]
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Mon, 10 May 2010 01:54
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| UniversalWolf |
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Messages:140
Registered:June 2009
Location: United States |
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After a long search, I think I've finally found a good use for the Barrel Extender. I used to put it on SMGs and other guns with really short range, but it just falls off a burst-firing gun too darn fast to be useful. Then I tried putting it on rifles - but it doesn't work on many of them. Then, I stumbled across the perfect fit for it:
The HK G3A3!
Now, you can get one of these babies fairly early on in the game. Often it's the first weapon I find that can fire 7.62 NATO rounds. At that point I'm usually lacking any kind of long-range kill power, so I fit it out as a sniper rifle: bipod, 7xScope, retractable stock, and...Barrel Extender! Perfect! No need for a laser, since it's a long-range setup. All the rest of these attachments are easy to obtain by the time you get a G3A3.
Until now I thought the Barrel Extender was pretty useless. FWIW.
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Sergeant
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| Re: "Best of the Best" - 1.13 Weapon Comparison Guide[message #253543]
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Thu, 10 June 2010 18:23
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| sean10mm |
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Messages:38
Registered:February 2007 |
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The AN-94 is a *great* weapon for stealthy night attacks at short to medium ranges. It doesn't look that great at first glance but is actually brilliant:
-Super silent with AR suppressor with standard AP (not cold-loaded!) ammo
-Folding stock and 4x Combo make it very fast for an AR
-2 round burst with -1 penalty and low AP cost is brilliant at short range
-Bizarrely high accuracy for an AR (+8/+7 with folding stock) means you spend less clicks aiming, which saves APs
The range is short for an AR, but you pretty much never detect enemies outside of its range at night even with a level 5 night ops merc wearing NVG3 goggles, and inside of its range it's a tack-driver. Its autofire is mediocre, but you should always use the 2 round burst instead so that's moot.
And with 100 AP it's suddenly clear that the 6.8 SPC rifles (Bushmaster M4A3 etc.) are notably faster than the HK417 with the same accuracy, range, damage and attachments plus the advantage of SAP ammo and lower weight over the 417. The 417 would probably be outclassed if 6.8 SPC wasn't so bloody scarce, but because of ammo scarcity (even with Bobby Ray's selection turned up!)I usually only buy 1 6.8 SPC rifle and use the 417 for everybody else that needs a high-powered AR.
[Updated on: Mon, 14 June 2010 20:43] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Private 1st Class
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| Re: "Best of the Best" - 1.13 Weapon Comparison Guide[message #253667]
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Fri, 11 June 2010 02:59
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| P.Val |
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Messages:72
Registered:May 2010 |
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It might be that you'll call me strange, but I have some different guidelines about which weapons I consider good: I prefer standardizing my equipment, so everyone who is not a specialist (sniper, DMR, machinegunner, grenadier, etc.) gets a Famas or, in case they have heavy weapons, a G36C . The Famas is quick, has burst fire, no big advantages but no weaknesses as well. Yes, it does not take a rifle LAM, so I have some M16s or AK clones for my grenadiers and use them with the LAM to make accurate shots inbetween. You might ask why. I play with full HAM suppression allowed, which requires good tactics instead of lone superheroes, so if a gun is only 5% better that the one I already given to half of my squad, I don't refit them and risk causing supply problems. And I try to not use too many ammo types at once, so I only consider adding a new caliber if it's really that superior. My squads are usually composed of one marksman with an M21 or similar, one machinegunner, one who has a grenade launcher, the rest are equipped with fast medium assault rifles like the Famas. Usually I have a very cheap merc in each squad carrying a cheap gun with plentiful ammo to help laying suppressive fire and carrying some stuff. Usually two such squads are working together, with a third composed by a bolt action sniper, mortar when available and one or two other mercs which I like to keep away from the center of the combat (medics, mechanics, teachers) to keep company and protect them in an emergency.
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Corporal
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| Re: "Best of the Best" - 1.13 Weapon Comparison Guide[message #255197]
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Thu, 01 July 2010 00:01
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| MikeJahn |
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Messages:53
Registered:June 2010 |
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I am somewhat perplexed as to why the Gyurza is lowly rated considering it fires 9x21 ammunition and can easily take out even heavily armored enemies.
[Updated on: Thu, 01 July 2010 00:03] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Corporal
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| Re: "Best of the Best" - 1.13 Weapon Comparison Guide[message #255313]
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Fri, 02 July 2010 12:08
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| MikeJahn |
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Messages:53
Registered:June 2010 |
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Range is definitely not a big attribute when I look at a pistol. To me it's a secondary weapon so the main factor is can the merc pull it out quickly and deliver the killing blow. When it comes to the Gyurza the answer is a definite yes.
[Updated on: Sat, 03 July 2010 04:06] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Corporal
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