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My Strategy Needs Improving[message #221478] Tue, 16 June 2009 21:59 Go to next message
RasterOps

 
Messages:50
Registered:July 2004
Location: Tempe, Az. USA
JA2 1.13 2858 exe SVN@1127 Full+HAM3.3.exe
HAM_3.4_on_build_2858.exe

I feel I am struggling and I am looking for advice. I can't seem to start capturing my third city until around day 40. How do you do it? What is your best time for starting the capture of a third city?

I set the EXPERT_CASH to $35,000 then I hire Hitman, Spider, Grizzly and Barry all for one week with equipment. If one or more is not available I adjust my starting Mercs. I have only one IMP. This varies between Night Ops & Throwing to Night Ops & Sniper. I set the IMP starting attributes to:
Health = 85
Dexterity = 85
Agility = 85
Strength = 85
Wisdom = 85
Leadership = 35
Marksmansip = 65
Explosives = 0
Medical = 35
Mechanical = 0

I have modified several INI settings and equipment properties. Some personal and some sensible. These will be covered where applicable.

CAN_SELL_ALT_LMB = TRUE
PRICE_MODIFIER = 10 (default, the description is outdated or unclear, selling doesn't net much...)

  • My strategy begins in Omerta by stealing as much as possible from the enemy. It is possible to steal equipment from all enemies... not that it's any good.
  • Talk to the rebels and get Ira. Wait in west Omerta for Deidranna's troops to arrive and ambush them. This is a day light battle.
  • Afterwards, I wait until 20:00 hrs (training then resting) and make my way to San Mona. There is at least one night-time encounter along the way. Again, stealing as much as possible especially from the grays.
  • In San Mona rest then perform all quests including the fight. Sell to Tony whatever was captured that you don't want. Buy reasonably whatever can be afforded which typically includes one superior (comparatively) weapon. Do not steal from Kingpin, yet.
  • Now I make my way to Chitzena during the night. One or more encounters are possible. Rest outside Chitzena. If leaving San Mona is timed right it may be possible to attack Chitzena immediately after resting. Otherwise the morning is spent training for awhile, then resting again before attacking.
  • Take all of Chitzena, talk to the miner and start training Militia. Train Mercs as desired. Repair equipment. Pay Mercs for one more week. Defend Chitzena from counter attacks, there are many.
    • These property settings mean my starting Mercs initially train fewer militia.
      MINIMUM_LEADERSHIP_TO_TRAIN_MILITIA = 22
      TEACHER_TRAIT_EFFECT_ON_LEADERSHIP = 100
      LEADERSHIP_AFFECTS_MILITIA_QUANTITY = TRUE
      REQ_LEADERSHIP_FOR_MAX_MILITIA = 65
    • MINE_INCOME_PERCENTAGE = 200. I experimented a little with this starting @ 250 tnen 150 then 200. A previous game was completed @ 100 (default) and I found I barely had enough money throughout the game to pay my Mercs and buy a few things from BR's. This didn't make any sense. The Queen could not possibly afford her troops and equipment at this level even if the thought is that she has more miners working than the rebels. So what is the original JA2 non-mod value? I seem to recal one of my first non-mod games completed with hundreds of thousands of dollars to spare.
  • Before training all Militia, hire Fox, Gasket, Biff and Flo. Have them work their may to Chitzena during the night (rest in San Mona, buy and sell at Tony's and do not steal from Kingpin). They will encounter one or more groups of enemies. When possible, steal what you can.
  • Put Hitman in the squad with Gasket, Biff and Flo. Place Fox in the IMP's squad. Return to San Mona with a cache of equipment to be sold at Tony's. Enemies may be encountered on the way. Steal what you can.
  • Tony stepped out for a bit... I waited for a day to sell and buy.
  • Steal from Kingpin and head to Omerta. Time this for a night-time encounter at the road-intersection between Omerta and Cambria. Steal as possible and desired. Stash whatever is to be sold at Tony's in this sector. Continue to Omerta.
  • Rest in Omerta. Leave for Drassen. An encounter is possible but not guaranteed. Rest just west of Drassen, maybe.
  • Take the airport and expect reinforcements. Take Central Drassen and expect reinforcements. Take the Mine.
  • Position Mercs in Central Drassen. Train Militia, Mercs and repair. Buy from BR's, typically LBE and related gear. No money for weapons.
  • Wait till morning. Talk to Airport mechanic. Talk to citizens in central Drassen. Talk to Father Walker. Talk to head Miner. Keep training and allow Deidranna to capture the mine. Defend central Drassen and the Airport.
  • Optionally locate and recruit Skyrider.
  • At some point Kingpin finds out he was robbed and wants to set up a meeting. Ah, screw him.
  • Attack Deidranna's troops west of the mine then return to central Drassen.
  • Attack Deidranna's troops east of the mine then return to central Drassen.
  • Rest and retake the mine. Expect reinforcements from the south.
  • Also at one point squad two with Hitman returned to San Mona, having met up with Hamous, cleaned North Central San Mona of Kingpin's men then sold and bought equipment at Tony's. Then they took the N.W. SAM.
  • I have also had to retake the N.E. SAM
Well that's my plan. The mine income allowed me to make three total purchases from BR's; more gear and ammo. The final purchase was for a few weapons. I was so impatient with my repair progress that I hired Trevor, so yes I had enough money for that as well. It is now Day 38 and I am ready to move on Alma. Squad two is still in the Chitzena area training replacement Militia there and at the SAM. I sure would have liked to at least captured three sectors of Alma by now.
Re: My Strategy Needs Improving[message #221480] Tue, 16 June 2009 22:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SpaceViking

 
Messages:760
Registered:January 2004
Location: Rochester, Minnesota, USA
So why does your strategy need improving? It appears to be working just fine.


Re: My Strategy Needs Improving[message #221481] Tue, 16 June 2009 22:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gmonk

 
Messages:647
Registered:April 2002
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
I wouldn't worry so much about the number of days it takes. Some of us take quite a while, it just depends on your choice of playing style. I think you're doing fine.

Hell, if you're having fun I wouldn't change a damned thing!

I play it a little differently every time I go through. What you're doing makes sense. It's not a race, you're liberating a country one step at a time. Sounds like you're enjoying a decent campaign and I wouldn't change anything.
Re: My Strategy Needs Improving[message #221482] Tue, 16 June 2009 22:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RasterOps

 
Messages:50
Registered:July 2004
Location: Tempe, Az. USA
@ SpaceViking, I actually feel like I am behind since it seems to take me so long to get to Alma.

Thanx gpmg, I am having fun!

[Updated on: Tue, 16 June 2009 22:11] by Moderator

Re: My Strategy Needs Improving[message #221486] Tue, 16 June 2009 22:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SpaceViking

 
Messages:760
Registered:January 2004
Location: Rochester, Minnesota, USA
If you really wanted to get to Alma more quickly then take Drassen first and then just head there. Or even just head there if you want a real challenge. But as gpmg pointed out there's no reason to do that if your prefer your current strategy.


Re: My Strategy Needs Improving[message #221549] Wed, 17 June 2009 03:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kindred

 
Messages:122
Registered:September 2006
Location: Australia, baby!
Ignore Enrico's emails. Don't let that impatient twit make you think you need to rush. It's a freaking invasion carried out by what, maybe six soldiers in the beginning? These things take time.
Re: My Strategy Needs Improving[message #221550] Wed, 17 June 2009 03:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
coffeecommander

 
Messages:88
Registered:June 2009
Location: Europe, and pitying you.

I usually don't go outside the Drassen area for several months. As far as I'm concerned, Arulco isn't an oppressed country to be liberated, it's playground to go people-hunting in.
Re: My Strategy Needs Improving[message #221559] Wed, 17 June 2009 06:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaerar

 
Messages:2063
Registered:January 2003
Location: Australia :D
LOL caf!

@RasterOps - I have San Mona, Chitzena and Drassen by day 26. My next port of call is Drassen SAM then Alma. That'll take a few days after militia training though. Chances are I'll have Alma by day 34/35 and then consolidate for a while as Alma gets hit repeatedly and pretty hard (not quite DCA...). Then I go for Tixa and Cambria+SAM and then Grumm or Orta. Then a few attacks on Meduna and then new game (normally before I can be bothered to kill the bitch!).

For me the fun is in the strategy to get to Meduna, not in the killing of Deidranna.


Re: My Strategy Needs Improving[message #221569] Wed, 17 June 2009 06:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
usrbid

 
Messages:1558
Registered:December 2008
@RasterOps: I don't see any obvious flaws in your strategy.

Quote:
I can't seem to start capturing my third city until around day 40. How do you do it?


Ah, if you want to capture cities more quickly, then Chitzena is the slower path, why? Because the mine is small, not a lot of cash.

If your goal is to move fast, then you need more mercs earlier, which means you need more money quicker. In that case you may want to try Drassen, Cambria, then Grumm.

However one of the captured mines will run out of silver, so if you capture Drassen, Cambria, and Grumm first, one of them will run out before day 30 or so (I don't have the exact details, it will run out fairly early, you can also turn this off in the INI).

Another trick I read on this forum, get Bull with Knuckle Dusters to fight twice a day for an extra $10,000 per day. Don't initiate the third fight as this will complete the boxing ring quest. I haven't tried this myself yet.

Also if you have relatively good guns (possibly scoped and bipod ARs) then take out the Kingpin, he has some cash on his body in addition to what he has downstairs. I believe alltogether this could give you over $40,000.


Re: My Strategy Needs Improving[message #221570] Wed, 17 June 2009 07:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wounded Ronin

 
Messages:79
Registered:August 2006
Kindred
Ignore Enrico's emails. Don't let that impatient twit make you think you need to rush. It's a freaking invasion carried out by what, maybe six soldiers in the beginning? These things take time.


Not to mention he paid you $35,000 dollars and expects you to hand him over a mineral-rich country with freaking gold mines.
Re: My Strategy Needs Improving[message #221574] Wed, 17 June 2009 07:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gmonk

 
Messages:647
Registered:April 2002
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
RE: The Extreme Fighting

Yes, Bull is the cheapest guy on the AIM roster and he's almost always in my starting line. Park him and Flo in San Mona to fight for cash (2 fights per day, skip the third) and pawn stuff to Tony.

You won't even miss the mines for the first while. Especially if you mostly use the enemy weapon drops as your supply chain, fixing stuff takes time but it's cheaper and more interesting than grabbing the latest and greatest from Bobby Ray's (well, interesting for me, maybe not everyone's cup of tea).
Re: My Strategy Needs Improving[message #221575] Wed, 17 June 2009 08:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
usrbid

 
Messages:1558
Registered:December 2008
Quote:
Park him and Flo in San Mona


Why Flo, she does decent training militia? Razor is better as a pack mule as he needs less sleep when walking over land.


Re: My Strategy Needs Improving[message #221577] Wed, 17 June 2009 09:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gmonk

 
Messages:647
Registered:April 2002
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Flo gets an extra 10% cash when she does the selling and a 10% discount when she's doing the buying. These bonuses are for guns only, not for ammo or non-firearms related stuff. According to rumour a couple of other RPCs may also have this hidden trait, but I haven't verified it.

If you're selling guns as an alternate source of income you need Flo in San Mona to sell the stockpile of guns, Tony only has ~$15000 per day and he's not always in. She can also do doctoring on Bull while he recovers from fights. Between Bull fighting and Flo selling you can theoretically make ~$25000 a day. In reality, it's limited by the number of guns you can sell and how often the fighters are resting or Tony steps out.

I usually leave her there until the guns are sold, or I have enough cash to last for a while. After I'm done with the gun sales she returns to teaching duty. It really depends on what's going on in any given game. If I go to Chitzena early, Flo spends a lot of time in seedy downtown San Mona, living with Bull in Kyle Lemmon's Tattoo Parlour.
Re: My Strategy Needs Improving[message #221578] Wed, 17 June 2009 09:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaerar

 
Messages:2063
Registered:January 2003
Location: Australia :D
gpmg
Flo spends a lot of time in seedy downtown San Mona, living with Bull in Kyle Lemmon's Tattoo Parlour.

Now there's a quote...


Re: My Strategy Needs Improving[message #221581] Wed, 17 June 2009 09:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gmonk

 
Messages:647
Registered:April 2002
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Just don't tell Biff! Some of these young French ladies can be so non-chalantly, realistic about making the best of a bad situation. Not to mention that Bull's probably raised Irish Catholic, the guilt will kill him! Wink

Now that I've played to two stereotypes I'll go hide until any angry people are gone.

[Updated on: Wed, 17 June 2009 09:23] by Moderator

Re: My Strategy Needs Improving[message #221590] Wed, 17 June 2009 11:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Cribbie

 
Messages:179
Registered:March 2004
Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan
Couldn't Flo earn more at Madame Layla's? And aren't Brass Knuckles considered weapons in the ring? And since Bull has spent his entire adult life on Army bases, he would know a 'ho from a 'ho and a Flo from a Flo.
Re: My Strategy Needs Improving[message #221597] Wed, 17 June 2009 12:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SpaceViking

 
Messages:760
Registered:January 2004
Location: Rochester, Minnesota, USA
usrbid
However one of the captured mines will run out of silver, so if you capture Drassen, Cambria, and Grumm first, one of them will run out before day 30 or so (I don't have the exact details, it will run out fairly early, you can also turn this off in the INI).


No. A random mine other than Alma's will run out. Alma's will never run out. Which one is picked at the game start so the order you capture the mines doesn't matter. It will run out in no less than 20 days after production starts but the actual time is prorated based on production compared to the maximum. So if you take over the pre-picked mine and have it running at 50% production it will run out no sooner than 40 days later.


Re: My Strategy Needs Improving[message #221617] Wed, 17 June 2009 13:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaerar

 
Messages:2063
Registered:January 2003
Location: Australia :D
Brass Knuckles are not considered weapons in the ring (ask my recent fighter Grizzly all about it Wink ). Just like Dr Q is quite good too, though I wish he did more damage with that MA kick.


Re: My Strategy Needs Improving[message #221781] Thu, 18 June 2009 08:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
usrbid

 
Messages:1558
Registered:December 2008
Quote:
is picked at the game start so the order you capture the mines doesn't matter


That is what I always thought as well, however in the last 3 games I played with mines, I ran the game for 30+ days with only one mine, and this one always ran out.

So you are saying I got a 25% chance three times in a row? This is a 1.6% chance! Man, I should play lotto now... Smile


Quote:
Brass Knuckles


I never got into trouble using Bull with Brass Knuckles, I thought this was allowed in the ring?


Re: My Strategy Needs Improving[message #221782] Thu, 18 June 2009 08:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gmonk

 
Messages:647
Registered:April 2002
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Brass knuckles are not considered weapons in the ring. There's a "brass knuckles" property set.

I might try setting shotguns with the "brass knuckles" property to see if the check works, i haven't tried looking for it in the source code.
Re: My Strategy Needs Improving[message #221964] Fri, 19 June 2009 07:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
usrbid

 
Messages:1558
Registered:December 2008
Quote:
Flo gets an extra 10% cash when she does the selling and a 10% discount when she's doing the buying


I looked with ProEdit but couldn't find anything, searched the forum but can only find this post, does anyone have more info on this? Cause this is pretty sweet! :drool: gpmg, you rock man!!


Re: My Strategy Needs Improving[message #221968] Fri, 19 June 2009 08:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gmonk

 
Messages:647
Registered:April 2002
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
A quick search of older posts revealed this nugget.

I haven't looked for it in the code myself but I've been using Flo as my "firearms agent" since I can remember. It says something in her description about being a clerk for a gun merchant, and some of those things were meant to be hints. I usually get her combat abilities up a bit and she, Bull, and whoever's too wounded for city assaults do the gunrunning to San Mona. Sometimes I even send them out to "manufacture" new stock for their business.

I enjoy that way of making money more than the mines, even though it's more work, it's enjoyable work. Wink

Maybe when the SMP is built, many years from now, we'll be able to enjoy campaigns where the player economy is based on gunrunning, gambling, selling illegal liquor, etc. Something just feels more honest about funding a backroom-built mercenary operation by gunrunning. Wink
Re: My Strategy Needs Improving[message #221989] Fri, 19 June 2009 11:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
usrbid

 
Messages:1558
Registered:December 2008
Found some code to substantiate this a little more, can someone confirm if this is active?

ShopKeeper Interface.cpp:
	#define		FLO_DISCOUNT_PERCENTAGE						10

	...

	// if Flo is doing the dealin' and wheelin'
	if ( gpSMCurrentMerc->ubProfile == FLO )
	{
		// if it's a GUN or AMMO (but not Launchers, and all attachments and payload is included)
		switch ( Item [ usItemID ].usItemClass )
		{
			case IC_GUN:
			case IC_AMMO:
				uiDiscountValue = ( uiUnitPrice * FLO_DISCOUNT_PERCENTAGE ) / 100;

				// she gets a discount!  Read her M.E.R.C. profile to understand why
				if ( fDealerSelling )
				{
					// she buys for less...
					uiUnitPrice -= uiDiscountValue;
				}
				else
				{
					// and sells for more!
					uiUnitPrice += uiDiscountValue;
				}
				break;
		}
	}


It looks like:
1. Flo is the only one with this ability, and
2. It is hard coded in the ShopKeeper Interface.cpp code file, meaning not part of any of the Prof.dat files and cannot be edited with ProEdit.

Note to whoever wants to externalize Prof.dat, this parameter should be externalized as well (even though it is not part of Prof.dat).


Re: My Strategy Needs Improving[message #221992] Fri, 19 June 2009 11:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gmonk

 
Messages:647
Registered:April 2002
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Yeah, it's working, not from looking at the code. By from observations in-game recently (couple of weeks ago). I'm thinking that the buying routine should be something that is scripted so that everything about discounts, etc. can be changed. For now, I suppose turning it into a trait like psycho would be a decent idea. Another one to be externalised is Larry's addiction behaviour.

These things need to be done for the SMP so that new campaigns with original characters can be constructed eventually. These are the sorts of things that would be best implemented via lua scripts.
Re: My Strategy Needs Improving[message #221993] Fri, 19 June 2009 11:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
usrbid

 
Messages:1558
Registered:December 2008
@Moderator: Do you want to copy my and gpmg's last post into the SMP forum so that we won't forget about this wonderful feature?


Re: My Strategy Needs Improving[message #221998] Fri, 19 June 2009 12:21 Go to previous message
gmonk

 
Messages:647
Registered:April 2002
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
I started a thread for it in the SMP Modders's forum.

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