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Night ops features for 1.13[message #224060] Mon, 29 June 2009 03:31 Go to next message
Mauser

 
Messages:781
Registered:August 2006
Location: Bavaria - Germany
Night ops seems to have quite some fresh and interesting new features.

what i want to know is, which of these features do you like the best and which of those would you like (or which would make most sense) to be integrated into standard 1.13?

overheating of guns sure is a nifty feature that would help balancing out the new power of full auto fire granted by HAM through suppression.

rolling when prone clearly is a good thing.

loss of stamina when firing guns also seems interesting, though it needs to be carefully balanced.
firing heavy hitting guns with lots of kickback should cost you much more stamina than light caliber guns with little to no recoil.

which features do you think have most impact on gameplay and would be worth to be included in 1.13?

☆★GL★☆
Re: Night ops features for 1.13[message #224062] Mon, 29 June 2009 03:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3509
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
Overall gun balance is superb. I don't know what they did and how they did it, but a typical battle in NO is like this:

Shoot, miss, shoot, miss repeat 20x times. from BOTH PARTIES (no magic bullets)
Bam! You are hit / you hit some - armour protects him.
More shoot, miss, shoot miss.
Bam! Second hit. Out of breath, desperately seeking to get out of fire line.
More shoot, miss, shoot miss.
Option A: You move, you stay alive.
Option B: You stay, 3rd Bam! kills you or leaves you totally crippled and dying.

Thats with my nub squad.

With pro squad it's super too. Phrak! Headshot! Phreak! Headshot! You are swimming in a sea of bodies and crap... Phraaakk... you left you head exposed... You are dead!

In all JA2's I've played so far enemy always hits you with small guns, while your top mercs struggle to hit anything. Not in NO. The CtH seems superbly equal. It doesn't forgive one wrong move, but it also rewards great play and strategy.

I wonder if all this comes from tweaking the guns or from a new CtH calculation...


Re: Night ops features for 1.13[message #224074] Mon, 29 June 2009 05:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mauser

 
Messages:781
Registered:August 2006
Location: Bavaria - Germany
sounds good Shanga. i confess i haven

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Re: Night ops features for 1.13[message #224107] Mon, 29 June 2009 11:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3509
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
Yep, especially after that long talk about Drassen counterattack that I doubt that led to any major fixes.
I like the random maps too. But v1.13 should make them not random, but timed alternatives. Aka tie them with the plot and load them when X event happens. Imagine the queen giving the order to bomb a city and you going there... smoke...ruins... crows...
I've noticed some externalised settings that I don't know if are in v1.13 - like enemy loadout/map, exit grids, entry points. I have little knowledge of v1.13 mapping so might be old stuff. In general, NO isn't revolutionary - like v1.13, but evolutionary. Everything looks like basic JA2, but has been brought a notch up. I am pretty early in my campaign, maybe I stumble on more goodies later, tho.

PS: Did I mentioned building defences with sand bags?

[Updated on: Mon, 29 June 2009 12:00] by Moderator



Re: Night ops features for 1.13[message #224118] Mon, 29 June 2009 12:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Off_Topic

 
Messages:1037
Registered:January 2009
I really like the fact that unless you have the "Sniper" trait, you can't use Rifles properly.

Also, having to look through the scope of your gun to use it is a brilliant addition, very satisfying getting into position on a roof, then hitting "J" to zoom in... You become focused on what you are seeing through the scope and lose i80 vision.

An AP cost for accessing your inv is another favourite of mine, with NIV this could be done even better. Less AP to draw your gun from a holster rather than a pocket.

And the Attack Jeeps, How cool is it when they can move around the Map and be dropped in by choppers!

***

Your dead on with the combat in N.OPs Shanga, there is a list of changes posted on the Russian forum that may explain it a bit more.

From something as simple as the CTH of a sniper rifle on a rooftop being improved dramatically to the reaction of enemies to sound or being hit in the head causing you to be "stunned" for a turn.


Re: Night ops features for 1.13[message #224119] Mon, 29 June 2009 12:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3509
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia

The enemies are as alert as a pissed off Cobra. I've never in my life restarted a road map as many times as I did in NO. That's cause I insist on playing daytime (until I get my squad on full NVG).

Btw I've stumbled onto an epic 3-way battle just near the entry in Drassen. Me on one side, militia in center, army shooting from 3 sides at them. What a massacre! There were 22 army, about 10-15 militia and only 3 made it barely alive. And of course I took full advantage of the situation and mopped up after them. My mercs are now 150% loaded with toys, even with a lovely P90.


Re: Night ops features for 1.13[message #224123] Mon, 29 June 2009 12:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Off_Topic

 
Messages:1037
Registered:January 2009
Quote:
The enemies are as alert as a pissed off Cobra. I've never in my life restarted a road map as many times as I did in NO. That's cause I insist on playing daytime (until I get my squad on full NVG).


You really need someone with Night vision at the start, daytime can be messy, it's one of the only flaws i found with the Mod.

They designed it to be played at night but failed to add more Night Ops traits or at least provide some Mercs with Night Vision Goggles/Break Lights at the start of the game.

I got a hell of a surprise
Toggle Spoiler
at the Drassen SAM, luckily i went in at night or i would have been toast!

I've found a lot of proven JA2 tactics have had to be improved or ignored to take on Night Ops.


Re: Night ops features for 1.13[message #224133] Mon, 29 June 2009 13:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Off_Topic

 
Messages:1037
Registered:January 2009
Shanga
Overall gun balance is superb. I don't know what they did and how they did it,


N.Ops Release Notes
Night Ops began as an ordinary gun mod for the fans who love shoot outs


I guess that explains the combat element.


Combat damage and firing.

Probability of getting a Critical Hit (45 HP) increased for a head shot to 75%, 10% for the torso, and 5% for the legs.

Increased likelihood of a critical response from a blast to the head at 2 tiles.

From the roof you can see 5 tiles further than from the ground. However, your silhouette on the roof is also visible from a distance of 5 tiles more.

All armor has an "immunity" to everything except 12.7h99mm ammunition and explosives.



- The difference in AR between single shot and the queue is no longer a fixed value of 4 AP, as in the original, but varies from 1 to 4 according to the AP firing rate of each trunk.


3.2.5. New weapons sights and other pribambasy.

- Collimator sight - gives 20% accuracy, reduces the number of AR in the shot (similar to


Re: Night ops features for 1.13[message #224135] Mon, 29 June 2009 13:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3509
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
Wow! Never knew the colimator is so awesome! The P90 i got has one attached so fun time coming!


Re: Night ops features for 1.13[message #224174] Mon, 29 June 2009 18:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3509
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
Steyr AUG Para was a nice flavour too. (Much) shorter range, but hey... it's a Steyr and you get to use it with 9mm which abound. The .45 ACP Commando is also nice. Wish there were more Russian weapons though, my AKSU quickly ran out of ammo and Igor is a sad soldier.

Overall SMGs aren't as crap as they usually are. They have a decent range and kick enough power.

I've found a lot of scoped shotguns, but honestly I don't like them. They are good to bring a man down but lack the finesse and range of a decent SMG. So I stripped all clean and mounted the toys on other guns.

About the NVGs, there's no real need to add more to the game. Seriously, I've had two starts already, in one going San Mona -> Chitzena route, in other going normal road to Drassen and by the time I reached both destionations I had more NVGs, more headphones and more breaklits that I wanted. I made a cache of them in rebel's basement to sell later.


Re: Night ops features for 1.13[message #224181] Mon, 29 June 2009 19:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
whoami

 
Messages:73
Registered:May 2009
Location: Russia, Uljanovsk
Shanga
Steyr AUG Para was a nice flavour too. (Much) shorter range, but hey... it's a Steyr

Steyr AUG Para + silencer + barrel(from Grumm) = silenced Steyr AUG ! (5,56) :venus:
Re: Night ops features for 1.13[message #224204] Mon, 29 June 2009 20:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3509
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
It's too heavy. A burst to head solves all my "retaliation" problems. Try it, 250-300 dmg will give them more than a headache. And if you are in shotgun range then you're likely to put a burst into their heads too.


Re: Night ops features for 1.13[message #224288] Tue, 30 June 2009 02:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mauser

 
Messages:781
Registered:August 2006
Location: Bavaria - Germany
ok guys, i intentionally meant for specific major and unique gameplay features of this mod, not for a general discussion about certain guns or stuff.

only distinctively new features that really influence the tactical or strategic gameplay compared to 1.13 and that could make sense to be carried over to it, maybe in form of HAM additions or so.

please keep the discussion focused on these things and not go astray with praise over certain single guns and the like.

just try to analyze which features make this mod unique and work very well and also probably would with 1.13 and maybe in combination with recent major modifications or the like.

it

☆★GL★☆
Re: Night ops features for 1.13[message #224312] Tue, 30 June 2009 06:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
whoami

 
Messages:73
Registered:May 2009
Location: Russia, Uljanovsk
Mauser

just try to analyze which features make this mod unique


Balance

Shanga

In general, NO isn't revolutionary - like v1.13, but evolutionary. Everything looks like basic JA2, but has been brought a notch up.

[Updated on: Tue, 30 June 2009 07:17] by Moderator

Re: Night ops features for 1.13[message #224361] Tue, 30 June 2009 13:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3509
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
If it was me I'd make the gun mod from Night Ops THE DEFAULT JA2 guns settings. The start for any and every gun layout in JA2 since now to the end of times. And I am not talking about the pictures here. They changed how guns work. They changed how guns affect armour. The tweaked and changed the autofire. They changed the grenades. They changed sniper scopes and other attachments so they have a much realistic, well defined and useful effect.

I think whoami can explain/translate better from AIM forum all the changes to guns that happened. It should serve as a manual for future modding.

[Updated on: Tue, 30 June 2009 13:42] by Moderator



Re: Night ops features for 1.13[message #224543] Wed, 01 July 2009 10:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
whoami

 
Messages:73
Registered:May 2009
Location: Russia, Uljanovsk
Shanga

all the changes to guns that happened.


It was discussed in private forum of developers NO. I don't have access to it.
Maybe just read Sources?
Re: Night ops features for 1.13[message #225036] Fri, 03 July 2009 01:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Thor

 
Messages:430
Registered:February 2007
Location: Belgium
SANDBAGS, definitely. See thread!!! Wink

Haven't had time to play NO yet, but planning to.

[Updated on: Fri, 03 July 2009 01:45] by Moderator

Re: Night ops features for 1.13[message #225345] Sat, 04 July 2009 00:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mauser

 
Messages:781
Registered:August 2006
Location: Bavaria - Germany
as read in this thread: http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=223126&page=1#Post223126

the night ops guys seem to have made quite a lot of serious changes and improvements conderning things like enemy and militia AI and even enabled the use of the mousewheel!

tbh the list of improvements and additions seems so long, i can hardly believe it!

it seems indeed that many of these features make for a superior balance and much more believable combat feeling as well as enemy behaviour.

i just hope many, if not all of those features can be implemented in standard 1.13 and maybe even merged and rebalanced with the feratures from HAM. the suppression system alone could add a lot to NO i could imagine!

and i reckon NO would greatly benefit from NIV features with all it

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Re: Night ops features for 1.13[message #225348] Sat, 04 July 2009 01:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3509
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
Communication with NO team isn't the most direct possible, whoami is doing a tremendous job to get our wishes over to them, but he doesn't have inside access to dev forums. So we can only hope.

They clearly opted for the "Russian model". Think of it in terms of AK vs OICW. Ak you can pee on it and still shoots, doesn't look more fancy than it did 40 years ago, yet it gets the job done damn well. OICW (v1.13) has all the bells and whistles you want, you could probably attach an expresso machine to it if you really wanted, but if you're caught in a sandstorm I doubt it will function (gun experts might hang me for this, but lets accept this for the sake of the argument).

So... what I clearly want in v1.13 would be NO's guns, ammo and cth functions, plus the nice unique features like sandbags. Overall, NOs balance. But with the million guns and ammo v1.13 has, I doubt that's possible. We'll see.


Re: Night ops features for 1.13[message #225408] Sat, 04 July 2009 10:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
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Messages:1037
Registered:January 2009

Mauser
are the modders and coders of NO currently still working on the mod and further improving it or are they free and willing to take on new challenges?


Night Ops as we know it now was only released officially before Christmas, from what i gather the core team has disbanded, The guys behind the gun Mod, Neyros their Map Maker etc...

A guy called Therapist is still working on it though, a new patch was released only a few weeks ago. So, to answer your question: There is still a lot of activity on the Russian JA site AIM.

The good news is he provided an English EXE for Night Ops & the source code. Maybe he is open to helping out.

Shanga
So... what I clearly want in v1.13 would be NO's guns, ammo and cth functions, plus the nice unique features like sandbags. Overall, NOs balance. But with the million guns and ammo v1.13 has, I doubt that's possible. We'll see.


I wouldn't say it's impossible, just a bit of research, trial and error. It would make a huge difference to 1.13 though, if every weapon and armour set were given the Nops treatment, think of all the fun to be had!


Re: Night ops features for 1.13[message #225416] Sat, 04 July 2009 11:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lockie

 
Messages:3928
Registered:February 2006
Location: Scotland
Modders should be playing this and see what differences can be made to western mods .
Talking of which , Scorpions 'Vengeance 1.13' mod is extremely good , not much activity around it though , would be a shame if this recent activity here were to bury it until much later Sad


Re: Night ops features for 1.13[message #225418] Sat, 04 July 2009 11:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3509
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
I was reffering to the fact that NO calculates damage/penetration on armour according to each bullet type. And they use quite a different ammo types system, don't they?


Re: Night ops features for 1.13[message #225856] Mon, 06 July 2009 18:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mauser

 
Messages:781
Registered:August 2006
Location: Bavaria - Germany
allrighty now, i

[Updated on: Mon, 06 July 2009 18:15] by Moderator


☆★GL★☆
Re: Night ops features for 1.13[message #225871] Mon, 06 July 2009 19:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3509
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
Quote:

- overheating weapons, though i never experienced it until now, maybe because burst fire is so ineffective with SMGs?


No it isn't. Not in NO at least. Don't be afraid to spray some bullets. NO has inbuilt suppresion system and even if you don't hit anything, it's useful. Once you get a Colimator attachments to your SMGs, you gonna have a lot of fun. In my game I got a lot of overheat lol.

Quote:

- pressing ALT to display CTH. why make such an vital information only available through holding a button pressed? at least make it permanently toggleable via option or .ini.


Guess you missed the info about pressing Y to get permanent CtH display Very Happy

Quote:

- cost for accessing inventory or changing contents of left/right hand. seems a little too much for me, should be toned down allthough in general there


Re: Night ops features for 1.13[message #225921] Tue, 07 July 2009 00:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mauser

 
Messages:781
Registered:August 2006
Location: Bavaria - Germany
Shanga
No it isn't. Not in NO at least. Don't be afraid to spray some bullets. NO has inbuilt suppresion system and even if you don't hit anything, it's useful. Once you get a Colimator attachments to your SMGs, you gonna have a lot of fun. In my game I got a lot of overheat lol.


well, so far only Stephan with his trusty MP7 was really effective with burst fire.
he

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Re: Night ops features for 1.13[message #226985] Mon, 13 July 2009 11:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Off_Topic

 
Messages:1037
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Mauser
only thing i


Re: Night ops features for 1.13[message #226993] Mon, 13 July 2009 12:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
profound

 
Messages:67
Registered:October 2004
Location: Lithuania
Mauser
but i guess the russians hacked one soldier type and this is the result.


Quite true - too bad jeeps are considered as soldiers in auto-resolve. 2ez2cheat
Re: Night ops features for 1.13[message #227208] Wed, 15 July 2009 03:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mauser

 
Messages:781
Registered:August 2006
Location: Bavaria - Germany
Off_Topic
Mauser
only thing i

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Re: Night ops features for 1.13[message #227235] Wed, 15 July 2009 11:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3396
Registered:December 2008
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Mauser
... and parking a manned jeep in a garage also seems a little awkward to me. makes for some nasty surprises for sure, but it also doesn
Re: Night ops features for 1.13[message #231183] Mon, 17 August 2009 09:00 Go to previous message
Nappy

 
Messages:6
Registered:August 2009
Mostly just started and had file structure problems. I got my mercs down in Arulco with empty weapons and the wrong type of amo. So something's wrong. I will fix it.

What I like:
rolling when prone and throwing grenades when prone

jeeps (don't know about the paras yet)

The queen can hire mercs (many I hope). This is my favorite.

The evolving map idea sounds great.

Sandbags. Very good idea.

Dislike:

The crap thing.

(I'm not sure about this) you can't get more than 1 IMP.

The accuracy of hand guns in the hands of soldiers.

Still it is a very challenging mod.

N
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