Home » SIRTECH CLASSICS » Jagged Alliance 2 » Favourite Mercs & NPCs » [IMP] Hall of Fame !
[IMP] Hall of Fame ![message #224176] Mon, 29 June 2009 18:39 Go to next message
Gabriel Eilin
Messages:2
Registered:June 2009
Hey Everybody !
I don't manage to find any hall of fame of our IMP veteran characters so, let's begin ! First, I'm gonna talk about mine. I decided, well it was 3 monthes ago, to start again JA2 after years without playing. I put the game in realistic, tons of weapons, and in expert mode. I created my IMP Character, with the questions test and it make, finally, my character an expert in Night Operations. I decided that, this time, I will finish the game with only this character, that he will never miss a shot and never be wounded.
I don't have finish the game yet, just have few cities to free and secure, and next, run into Meduna, avoiding the tanks, and shot all the elites with the Dragunov or the Fn-Fal after blowing up the back wall of Deidranna's palace. I'm going to test the 1.13 mod before, if it is a bit more challenging Razz

And now, without wait anymore ! My veteran, and first hall of famed (HAHA) !
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/1892/hallof.jpg

Let's hall of famed yours now ! XD

[Updated on: Mon, 29 June 2009 18:39] by Moderator

Re: [IMP] Hall of Fame ![message #224259] Mon, 29 June 2009 23:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sorkvild

 
Messages:14
Registered:June 2009
Times wounded: 0, 100% Hit

Odd.
Re: [IMP] Hall of Fame ![message #224261] Mon, 29 June 2009 23:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gorro der Grüne

 
Messages:1540
Registered:March 2009
Location: Broadwurschd-City
Sorkvild
Times wounded: 0, 100% Hit

Odd.


I'ld call that cheat
Re: [IMP] Hall of Fame ![message #224264] Mon, 29 June 2009 23:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lockie

 
Messages:3928
Registered:February 2006
Location: Scotland
Hmmmmmm , bit of a false claim there ? Or a *gasp* 'save monkey' !!


Re: [IMP] Hall of Fame ![message #224266] Mon, 29 June 2009 23:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3512
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
In the days of IMP editors no one bothers with IMP hall of fame. I'd rather make a "Flo and Biff Hall-of-Shame".


Re: [IMP] Hall of Fame ![message #224267] Mon, 29 June 2009 23:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3396
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
Obscuritae
... my name is Jeff, and I'm living in this strange country called France. ...


something else? you get it as easily as birdflu
Re: [IMP] Hall of Fame ![message #224268] Tue, 30 June 2009 00:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gmonk

 
Messages:647
Registered:April 2002
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Monk: Night Ops/Stealth (yes, I know, it's useless, blah, blah, blah Razz )

My IMP is a putz compared to a lot of stuff I see posted on the forums. Not that he's not skilled, just doesn't have the numbers I see thrown around in here sometimes. Maybe a 70% hit rate and a hell of a lot of wounds. But he's the guy I put in front, he gets wounded more often than a lot of the other mercs.

He's my leader, he calls the shots and he goes in first, even if he's wounded. If this game had adaptive learning routines, the other mercs would probably follow him into Hell with their morale bars at the top. The only reason he survives is because I'm careful with him.

I don't have a screen for him, but it kinda looks like maybe Malice's or Igor's. Not impressive or outstanding, just pretty good.

He's the guy I can trust, just like Enrico did. Smile
Re: [IMP] Hall of Fame ![message #224357] Tue, 30 June 2009 13:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gabriel Eilin
Messages:2
Registered:June 2009
No cheat at all Razz
Just a lover of Alt+S and Alt+L ^^

IMP editors ? You mean, like in the 1.13 where you choose the skills you want and so on ?
Well I have some difficulties with the mod, kinda too different (Skins of weapons and so on), I need some time to be... how can I say it... Used to it ?

Anyway, it was just an idea, if you think it is completly useless, go on and delete it Razz
I don't care, just fun.

Re: [IMP] Hall of Fame ![message #224369] Tue, 30 June 2009 13:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3396
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
no problem; as faith is up to anyone of his/her own. so if you are a true sevant of st. quicksavius it's all up to you. you could probably change the topic to " [IMP] Hall of Fame - dedicated to st. quicksavius - patron of the the innocent and hypocrit "
Re: [IMP] Hall of Fame ![message #224371] Tue, 30 June 2009 14:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3512
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
@Obscuritae - I have no problem with the topic, I was just explaining why nobody bothered to post their IMP stats.


Re: [IMP] Hall of Fame ![message #224386] Tue, 30 June 2009 15:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaerar

 
Messages:2067
Registered:January 2003
Location: Australia :D
Obscuritae its a good topic actually. Should get some more game completing IMPS about Smile

Though I think my IMP suffers from a little quicksavious now and then too Wink


Re: [IMP] Hall of Fame ![message #224398] Tue, 30 June 2009 15:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3512
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
For most people a dead IMP means reload. Unless you're playing with 6 of them, guess that's when they become "expendable".

On topic now, I do find strange the attributes you picked for your IMP. The table values are as follows:

Starting Points / End Points / Increase

HP: 60
Very low HP means one bullet and you're dead. Imho you should always max this value, avoids a lot of reloads.
AGI: 85 / 91 / (+6)
High AGI is good for avoidance, but it's also a skill that can be increased ingame. I usually go for 80 or so and leave some points for the HP or other skills.
DEX: 85/ 88 / (+3)
Unless you plan to specialise in Explosives or Mechanics, why pick 85 DEX? It's also a stat that can be raised so a value of 60-70 is enough imho. But I see you used your IMP as mechanic, so let's say 70.
STR: 35 / 51 / (+16)
This is completely wrong. STR affects your battlefield performance, what guns and armour you can equip and how much stamina you have. It should always be above 65. I usually go for 80, unless I plan to train on cows.
LDR: 35 / 90 (+55)
Good pick, 35, enough for most convos. But how the heck did you gain 55 points!? It's a huge increase... You trained 10 armies of militia?
WIS: 80
Again good pick, I would've maxed it if pos cause all other stats depend on it.
MARK: 85/ 98 / (+13)
Setting 85 as start value for MRK is wasting points. Your IMP is a merc and he'll be using guns for his entire JA2 life. High wisdom will grant him fast raise. Start of the game means crap pistols with expendable ammo. That's why I pick 60-65 usually and by the time I am headed towards 2nd city my IMP is already in the 70 range. Marksmanship is the easiest value to increase since it's constantly practiced.
MEC: 70 / 73 / (+3)
As I've said, good choice if you plan to save on expensive mechanics from AIM and your IMP will mostly be assigned to defence, repairs and training militia. I like mine on the frontlines.
EXP: 0
This is a calculated risk, but there's a good saying that with explosives if you don't know exactly what you're doing you are much better off and far away from them. So yes, good pick.
MED: 35/ 45 / (+10)
My default pick too, 35 is enough to bandage some wounds. But even 15 can work sometimes.

So while Quicksave and Quickload can be useful this setup has no chance whatsoever on Ironman mode.

If I were you I'd shave off 35 pts from MRK, 35 pts from DEX, 20 from MEC. That gives you 90 points to assign.

Hp needs boost to 85 (+25).
Wis maxed 85 (+5)
Str maxed 85 (+50)

And you have 10 spare points.

[Updated on: Tue, 30 June 2009 16:27] by Moderator



Re: [IMP] Hall of Fame ![message #224400] Tue, 30 June 2009 15:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Will Gates

 
Messages:1030
Registered:September 2006
Location: Far far away.
Good topic agreed but I can't bleeve the 0% wounded 100% hit; not even faintly enjoyable to reload that often surely? My Imp has a wound count roughly equal to the number of battles he's been in coz like GPMG says he's on point almost always. If somebodies going to get hit it's him... also means his medical skill goes up fast too.

Re: [IMP] Hall of Fame ![message #224407] Tue, 30 June 2009 16:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gorro der Grüne

 
Messages:1540
Registered:March 2009
Location: Broadwurschd-City
Normally my imps have a 80% ratio of wounded compared to kills
Re: [IMP] Hall of Fame ![message #224411] Tue, 30 June 2009 16:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3512
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
It's a war game we're playing, not a clay pigeon shootout. Being wounded is allowed and encouraged. Teaches basic things like "you don't stick your head out of a window if a cool chick in black shouts your name".

Playing without wounds is like playing without bullets. Except when you're on a "I-am-better-than-Razor" campaign where you knife your way to Meduna.


Re: [IMP] Hall of Fame ![message #224415] Tue, 30 June 2009 16:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gorro der Grüne

 
Messages:1540
Registered:March 2009
Location: Broadwurschd-City
Shanga

Playing without wounds is like playing without bullets.


Reminds me to the ATeam-mod a lot of persons a brabbling of.

If it would be real ATeam-mod 10.000s of rounds would be fired and nobody get hurt.

I hate this series.
Re: [IMP] Hall of Fame ![message #224532] Wed, 01 July 2009 08:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
usrbid

 
Messages:1558
Registered:December 2008
Trying to substantiate a cause for high agility, health, and dexterity here.

Action Points are most important, you have less, you will be doing less. On higher game difficulties e.g. Insane, there will be many enemies, with multiple combats forced on you each and every day. You want to be able to do more.

I probably got this from Headrock:

AP = 5+ (((10 * Level + 3 * Agility + 2 * LifeMax + 2 * Dex) + 20) / 40)

Here is my version of the post: http://jaggedalliance2.pbworks.com/AP-Calculation


Re: [IMP] Hall of Fame ![message #224638] Wed, 01 July 2009 18:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3512
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
Very interesting didn't occur to me to check for that.

So basically to achive max AP your order of importance should be:

1. Max Wisdom - allows faster growth in level (10*Level is HUGE increase)
2. Max Agility - 3x
3. Max HP cause you can't use APs when dead x2
4. Highest Dexterity you can afford x2

So taking all these into consideration, the best build would be:

HP 85
Agi 85
Wis 85
Dex 70 (was 60, i had 10 spare points)

Shanga: 5 + ((((10 * 1) + (3 * 85) + (2 * 85) + (2 * 70)) + 20) / 40) = 19,87500
vs
Ghost: 5 + ((((10 * 1) + (3 * 60) + (2 * 85) + (2 * 85)) + 20) / 40) = 18,75

Interesting... very interesting... Where is Strength used then, if not in any AP calculation?

[Updated on: Wed, 01 July 2009 18:15] by Moderator



Re: [IMP] Hall of Fame ![message #224840] Thu, 02 July 2009 10:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
usrbid

 
Messages:1558
Registered:December 2008
For strength I know that Bull has a 50% chance to knock an enemy unconscious with one blow, well that is if he can get close enough. Also opening doors works better with higher strength, you may get the complaint message but if you keep trying it you will get lock hit messages and eventually open it, although this is more applicable to 1.13 than UB maybe.


Re: [IMP] Hall of Fame ![message #224915] Thu, 02 July 2009 16:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3512
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
Yes, but weight carried affects your AP right? Strength doesn't come into relation with AP that way?


Re: [IMP] Hall of Fame ![message #224919] Thu, 02 July 2009 17:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
usrbid

 
Messages:1558
Registered:December 2008
Someone can correct me if I am wrong on this, but not when you are below 100%, at least not to my experience. Some mercs with low STR e.g. Fox carry close to 99% and they do fine AP wise.


Re: [IMP] Hall of Fame ![message #224924] Thu, 02 July 2009 18:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3512
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
Yes, but how this 100% is calculated then? 100% max weight carried ain't the same between a piano mover and a pianist, if you catch my drift.


Re: [IMP] Hall of Fame ![message #225080] Fri, 03 July 2009 07:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
usrbid

 
Messages:1558
Registered:December 2008
So you are looking for a formula which determines percentage load based on weight carried and strength?

Edit: Here is the code (I think) that reduces your APs based on how much you are carrying.

Soldier Control.cpp
	if (this->sWeightCarriedAtTurnStart > 100)
	{
		ubPoints = (UINT8) ( ((UINT32)ubPoints) * 100 / this->sWeightCarriedAtTurnStart );
	}


So it looks like your total APs are reduced in equal proportion to how much over 100% you carry (here ubPoints refers to AP for this round).


Here is the part which calculates carried weight:

Items.cpp
UINT32 CalculateCarriedWeight( SOLDIERTYPE * pSoldier )
{
	UINT32	uiTotalWeight = 0;
	UINT32	uiPercent;
	UINT8		ubLoop;
	UINT8		ubStrengthForCarrying;

	//Pulmu: Changes for dynamic ammo weight
	for( ubLoop = 0; ubLoop < pSoldier->inv.size(); ubLoop++)
	{
		//ADB the weight of the object is already counting stacked objects, attachments, et al
		uiTotalWeight += CalculateObjectWeight(&pSoldier->inv[ubLoop]);
	}
	// for now, assume soldiers can carry 1/2 their strength in KGs without penalty.
	// instead of multiplying by 100 for percent, and then dividing by 10 to account
	// for weight units being in 10ths of kilos, not kilos... we just start with 10 instead of 100!
	ubStrengthForCarrying = EffectiveStrength( pSoldier );
	if ( ubStrengthForCarrying > 80 )
	{
		ubStrengthForCarrying += (ubStrengthForCarrying - 80);
	}
	uiPercent = (10 * uiTotalWeight) / ( ubStrengthForCarrying / 2 );
	return( uiPercent );

}


You see the code has a comment saying that soldiers can carry half their (effective) strength in kilogramms without a penalty. The actual percent calculation is: uiPercent = (10 * uiTotalWeight) / ( ubStrengthForCarrying / 2 )

If you are over your 100 percent there are many effects for this, one of them is having less APs. There are only a few code portions using the CalculateCarriedWeight function, which limits the locations where effects of weight are applied to: Assignments.cpp, mapscreen.cpp, Strategic Movement.cpp, Interface Panels.cpp, Items.cpp, Points.cpp, and Soldier Control.cpp.

[Updated on: Fri, 03 July 2009 07:37] by Moderator



Re: [IMP] Hall of Fame ![message #225504] Sat, 04 July 2009 18:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3512
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
But doesn't really makes sense:

So if I am carrying 20kg in gear and I have 60 str, then

uiPercent= (10*20) / (60/2) = 6.6% ?! Meaning I could haul 10x times as more (aka 200kg) and still only reach 60%?

Enlighten me please, with my example as a base.


Re: [IMP] Hall of Fame ![message #225559] Sat, 04 July 2009 23:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
usrbid

 
Messages:1558
Registered:December 2008
uiTotalWeight is an unsigned integer, meaning the weight is stored without the decimal e.g. 12.3 kg is stored as 123 instead. The integer operation is much faster and absolutely accurate. Whenever you store floating point numbers, you have some degree of inaccuracy e.g. the number cannot be infitively small, there is a limit to what you can express. As a result numbers like currency etc. that are limited to a fixed amount of digits after the decimal are often stored as an integer.

So what the comment is saying is instead of 100 * weight / 10 they do only 10 * weight where weight is an integer e.g. 20.0 kg is stored as 200. Now your calculation becomes:

uiPercent= (10*200) / (60/2) = 66%

The interesting thing here is that uiPercent is also an unsigned integer, meaning that the game probably doesn't track 100.4% because the .4 gets ignored. It is even possible that a 100.9% gets simply truncated to 100%. The reason I am saying probably is because the variable is named uiPercent referring to the UI (user interface) so it might be a display only value. I would need to check how overland travel works and if it has a formula that takes the fractions into consideration, meaning that 100.4% would slow your squad down.


Re: [IMP] Hall of Fame ![message #225561] Sat, 04 July 2009 23:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3512
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
Thanks for explaining that to this C code blind man. Now I get it.

I always kept my mercs loaded to about 50% weight, had a preconception that it's the optimal load. To hell with them, its 99% until they crap out. LOL.

But it's also true that the moment you get wounded your carrying capacity drops a lot (at least in NO does).


Re: [IMP] Hall of Fame ![message #225679] Sun, 05 July 2009 17:12 Go to previous message
usrbid

 
Messages:1558
Registered:December 2008
Yes, carrying capacity goes significantly down in 1.13 as well. However if you get hurt during combat, chances are that you don't need to move around that much, meaning your guys will focus on shooting back (hopefully). If you do have to move, you can always drop your thigh rig or the side pack (but dropping costs AP).

By the way, the mercs don't tire more when they are at 99% carrying capacity, I have been playing it like that since the beginning, it seems it only makes a difference once you go over 100%. For example you can test this out by initiating overland travel (you can always cancel it again) and look at the estimated time. You can increase and decrease load and see how it affects the travel time.


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