Home » SIRTECH CLASSICS » Jagged Alliance 2 » Favourite Mercs & NPCs » Merc Relationships? (non romance)
Merc Relationships? (non romance)[message #226497] Thu, 09 July 2009 20:27 Go to next message
Kordanor

 
Messages:28
Registered:March 2008
Heya,

Is there any GOOD overview of ALL Merc Relationships out there?

I know about pro edit, and yeah, you can look up single things, but you don't really get a good overview. Apart from that I don't really know how to interprete some of the entries (like nationalities, if the both russians one can hate are listened as hated mercs anyways (Gasket)).

The best "overview" i could find till now is http://www.jaggedalliance.de/ja2/soldner/ginfo.shtml
It's one sided though. For example Gasket hates Igor and Ivan, but he does not appear anywhere on Ivans profile.

So, is there any complete overview out there? Otherwise I threaten you to make one myself! Wink
For this I'd like to know though If anything in addition to the buddy/hated in the merc edit is of relevance.

Edit: The current link for the overview I made is: http://ndnw.net/JA2/relationships.html

[Updated on: Wed, 11 May 2011 15:22] by Moderator

Re: Merc Relationships? (non romance)[message #226504] Thu, 09 July 2009 21:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gmonk

 
Messages:647
Registered:April 2002
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Woohooo, making stuff! Good idea!

I'm only familiar with the relationships from experience and prof.dat info. There's also the complex and subtle system involving the "opinions" info available in prof.dat. That one is a little harder to sort out.
Re: Merc Relationships? (non romance)[message #226525] Fri, 10 July 2009 01:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kordanor

 
Messages:28
Registered:March 2008
Started making a kind of mind map...lots more of work I actually thought ^^

Just seperated Buns, Biff and Flo...they just have too many haters.

I hope I can finish it tomorrow.
Re: Merc Relationships? (non romance)[message #226527] Fri, 10 July 2009 01:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gorro der Grüne

 
Messages:1542
Registered:March 2009
Location: Broadwurschd-City
by the way, a real mind map should include mods.
Re: Merc Relationships? (non romance)[message #226528] Fri, 10 July 2009 01:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kordanor

 
Messages:28
Registered:March 2008
Hum...ermm...
Re: Merc Relationships? (non romance)[message #226529] Fri, 10 July 2009 01:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gorro der Grüne

 
Messages:1542
Registered:March 2009
Location: Broadwurschd-City
e.g. WF6 there are some new mercs with relationships
(Grace hates Red, and so on)

There may even be mods where Buns and Fox a comrades in women's liberation.

If the work should be done right You have to include them all.
I personally prefer not to know and look a lill puzzled when merc interaction takes place.

[Updated on: Fri, 10 July 2009 01:29] by Moderator

Re: Merc Relationships? (non romance)[message #226559] Fri, 10 July 2009 07:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kordanor

 
Messages:28
Registered:March 2008
Well, I'd like to focus on Ja2 classic/gold/ 1.13 here. Especially if with these mods you name relationships of the normal game change, there won't be a good way to show that. Probably better to just make a complete new list here. I already thought about taking JA and JA DG into consideration (already made a list for DG shortly after release, but I think I don't have it anymore) but I can't just mix these or I must use a program like flash to display it properly, which I won't buy for that.
Re: Merc Relationships? (non romance)[message #226584] Fri, 10 July 2009 11:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
profound

 
Messages:67
Registered:October 2004
Location: Lithuania
Relationships examined:
relationships.doc

Done by someone else in this forum.
Re: Merc Relationships? (non romance)[message #226630] Fri, 10 July 2009 18:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kordanor

 
Messages:28
Registered:March 2008
Hmm..nice summary, but not what I was looking for. ^^
Re: Merc Relationships? (non romance)[message #226666] Fri, 10 July 2009 22:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Majek

 
Messages:444
Registered:January 2003
Location: Slovenia
So basically you want to have a list of all the people who hate or like the merc in his/her profile along with his own likes and dislikes?

LOL.
Re: Merc Relationships? (non romance)[message #226688] Sat, 11 July 2009 00:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gmonk

 
Messages:647
Registered:April 2002
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Something like this maybe?

I've shared it here as well in case JA Galaxy is down.

[Updated on: Sat, 11 July 2009 01:00] by Moderator

Re: Merc Relationships? (non romance)[message #226690] Sat, 11 July 2009 01:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kordanor

 
Messages:28
Registered:March 2008
Yeah, that's a nice one. But now as I am on it, I will finish what I begun.
It's really fun, quite like solving I gigantic puzzle...
When I am finished you'll see what I mean. ^^

Edit: Ah, and as I am writing here. If anyone knows where to get a nice freeware Jagged Alliance like font, please PM me.

Edit2: Larry isn't listed on this sheet though. Especially Larry is one of the most interesting discoveries for me. Did you know that Larry and Biff are friends? You probably did. But did you know that Biff does not like Larry anymore if he is drugged again? ^^
And in addition to that it's vice versa with Static. He only likes Larry drugged. Bad boy.
Also great is that Gasked likes Vicky but Vicky hates him. ^^

[Updated on: Sat, 11 July 2009 01:23] by Moderator

Re: Merc Relationships? (non romance)[message #226707] Sat, 11 July 2009 06:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaerar

 
Messages:2067
Registered:January 2003
Location: Australia :D
Most fonts in JA are just standard fonts...


Re: Merc Relationships? (non romance)[message #226720] Sat, 11 July 2009 09:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3395
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
stalking - if you were a lady what'ya think about gasket adoring you?

when you do that please make a difference between 'is' and 'learn to'
Re: Merc Relationships? (non romance)[message #226733] Sat, 11 July 2009 12:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Majek

 
Messages:444
Registered:January 2003
Location: Slovenia
Kordanor

Edit2: Larry isn't listed on this sheet though. Especially Larry is one of the most interesting discoveries for me. Did you know that Larry and Biff are friends? You probably did. But did you know that Biff does not like Larry anymore if he is drugged again? ^^
And in addition to that it's vice versa with Static. He only likes Larry drugged. Bad boy.
Also great is that Gasked likes Vicky but Vicky hates him. ^^

Yes, we knew all of that.
Re: Merc Relationships? (non romance)[message #226735] Sat, 11 July 2009 13:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kordanor

 
Messages:28
Registered:March 2008
<<< Sorry, havent.

<<< That is why I wrote "Especially Larry is one of the most interesting discoveries for me"
I apologize, that I haven't spent my whole life playing this game. Razz
Actually I was disappointed at first about the Release of JA2, played much more JA1 and JA DG before then Ja2. Anyways, that's a different story.

After I sat on it the last 20 hours I am finally finished. Don't know if there is much use of it or not. At least it was fun to make it (not the flash thingy though).

At first I tried to just connect all mercs to anyone they have a connecton (like/hate) with, but it didn't take long till I realized, that it's simply too much and not managable. First I tried to sort out some of the most hated guys. But I think nobody will build a group around the biggest cluster of hate. So I started making 2 "maps" - one with friendships and the oder one with hostility. Wile doing that I got the Idea to implement mouseovers for the Friendship map, so that you cann still see likes/dislikes almost at once.

The final Result is:
http://ndnw.piranho.de/JA2/relationships.html
if you dont have such a high resolution, just try to open the flash file itself at http://ndnw.piranho.de/JA2/big.swf

Important! - Click into the flash application once, so that mouseovers get activated.

Hope that at least some of you like it. ^^
And I hope I didn't make any additional mistakes. The ones I found were already a pain in the ass to fix.
I will finally go to bed now, 12 am here. Very Happy

EDIT: 20.7.2009
Deleted Link to Hostility Map, as there were several errors and won't be updated. Though all the information is included in the relationships file (where it was also corrected).

[Updated on: Mon, 20 July 2009 23:21] by Moderator

Re: Merc Relationships? (non romance)[message #226740] Sat, 11 July 2009 13:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3395
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
i knew that buns hates fox, but vice versa?

NICE
Re: Merc Relationships? (non romance)[message #226743] Sat, 11 July 2009 13:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Majek

 
Messages:444
Registered:January 2003
Location: Slovenia
All the good ones hate that bitch o.ob
Re: Merc Relationships? (non romance)[message #226767] Sat, 11 July 2009 19:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kordanor

 
Messages:28
Registered:March 2008
It does not necessarily mean that they hate each other. If A hates B, I also connected B with A. While there might not be special soundfiles or similar the outcome as result would be the same.

I mean it's more than enough if one hates the other to not take both at once.

Same goes for friendships. I just wanted to indicate what connections are out there and what characters to take to hear at least something "special".

The Friends and Enemies are listed on basically every fanpage.
But till now when recruiting Biff you just knew that he hates Barry. And not that half of the world hates him without checking every other merc.

With this "map" you see all of the connections at once.
Re: Merc Relationships? (non romance)[message #226786] Sat, 11 July 2009 21:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaerar

 
Messages:2067
Registered:January 2003
Location: Australia :D
Probably should have arrows on the Hate relations one Wink


Re: Merc Relationships? (non romance)[message #227012] Mon, 13 July 2009 17:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
profound

 
Messages:67
Registered:October 2004
Location: Lithuania
Monk
Something like this maybe?

I've shared it here as well in case JA Galaxy is down.


A mismatch there, according to proedit.exe:

Reaper does not share sympathies with no one. Instead this table discloses Blood and Shadow as his friends.

Re: Merc Relationships? (non romance)[message #227016] Mon, 13 July 2009 17:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gorro der Grüne

 
Messages:1542
Registered:March 2009
Location: Broadwurschd-City
Kordanor
I think nobody will build a group around the biggest cluster of hate.


definitly not correct

by the way: I mentioned WF6 for the new mercs do have lines for buddies/haties

a nice cluster would be

Red, Buns, Fox, [color:#3366FF]Grace[/color], Biff, Flo, Razor, Lynx, Buzz and Larry (drunk)
(WF6 allows 10mercs/squad)

[color:#3366FF]new in WF6[/color]
Re: Merc Relationships? (non romance)[message #227027] Mon, 13 July 2009 19:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kordanor

 
Messages:28
Registered:March 2008
Yeah, you are right, I probably should have called it "nobody will build a serious group" ^^
I think I'd just listen to the soundfiles in the case I want to listen to how they hate each other, not actually play a game which can't end good. But I assume this depends on the playstile. I also don't tolerate death mercs or stat losses (never would let Larry get drugged).

Besides of that I am not goin to change anything on this file.
The reason is quite simple: I didn't get any positive feedback, neither anyone seems to be interested in an overview like that. On the other hand it completely fits my needs. Ergo no one would profit of any change and therefore I don't see any point in putting lots of additional hours of work into that.
Re: Merc Relationships? (non romance)[message #227029] Mon, 13 July 2009 20:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gorro der Grüne

 
Messages:1542
Registered:March 2009
Location: Broadwurschd-City
Kordanor
never would let Larry get drugged


With many mercs You may rehire Joey after the quest and make Larry escort him to San Mona, were You place Joey right into the brothel an put Larry next to some garbage.

Then You might transfer any alcohol in the entire game to the sector (Biff and Flo as carriers).

Now You could drown Larry in alc while Joey has a whore any 6 hours.



Re: Merc Relationships? (non romance)[message #227041] Mon, 13 July 2009 23:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Agnostik

 
Messages:49
Registered:October 2008
Location: St. Petersburg, Russia
I had a lot of fun with a group consisting of Hitman, Raider and Raven. Hitman and Raider hate each other's guts, but they both love Raven, and therefore agree to stay just because of her. Very Happy

As for other relationships, there are not only love/hate between certain mercs, there are also several factors (based on personality traits) that affect morale.

For example, in 1.13 I had a group consisting of Gaston, Fox, Buzz and Ira (basically, I just wanted to hear Gaston's "love" lines towards Fox and Buzz, and Ira just tagged along). Gaston was obviously on top of the world (high morale throughout the game), Buzz and Fox were also okay, but Ira constantly had low morale, even though she doesn't hate any of these mercs personally.

I've pretty much memorized all love/hate relationships in the game, but these additional factors are not easy to figure out. Someone should do a research (I'm too lazy).
Re: Merc Relationships? (non romance)[message #227044] Tue, 14 July 2009 00:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gorro der Grüne

 
Messages:1542
Registered:March 2009
Location: Broadwurschd-City
Agnostik


but these additional factors are not easy to figure out. Someone should do a research (I'm too lazy).


Nobody should do it. These features are things each and every player should have the chance to find out him/herself.

And for those who demand to know anything before, so they could "tune" their game in advance.

SHANGA!

please kick 'em!!!!!!
Re: Merc Relationships? (non romance)[message #227055] Tue, 14 July 2009 00:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1781
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
Quote:

As for other relationships, there are not only love/hate between certain mercs, there are also several factors (based on personality traits) that affect morale.


As far as I know, personality traits have nothing to do with it. I've researched this stuff (I wasn't lazy). Neither does nationality, sex, or race.

Gaston has an extremely high opinion of Fox (+25, which is the same as a buddy merc as far as morale goes), which is only slightly mitigated by a -5 towards Ira. Morale for Gaston stabilizes at +70 in your team, and if you remove Ira, he will stabilize at 75. This is barring any strategic/combat effects, of course. Also Gaston will eventually learn to like Buzz, so...

In comparison, Buzz has -1 against Ira; Fox has -3 against Ira, which is mitigated by a +1 for Buzz; and Ira suffers -5 from Fox. That's why Ira has the lowest morale in your team.

To see these values, open up Proedit and click "show opinions". It's all listed there.

Quote:
And for those who demand to know anything before, so they could "tune" their game in advance.


People should be able cheat if they want to. Most people won't, anyway. It's certainly not a reason to keep the data hidden.



Re: Merc Relationships? (non romance)[message #227086] Tue, 14 July 2009 10:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gorro der Grüne

 
Messages:1542
Registered:March 2009
Location: Broadwurschd-City
but if they have to open PE and calculate this on their own, they get a small pumnisment for it.

[Updated on: Tue, 14 July 2009 10:20] by Moderator

Re: Merc Relationships? (non romance)[message #227097] Tue, 14 July 2009 11:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Will Gates

 
Messages:1030
Registered:September 2006
Location: Far far away.
Kordanor... your play style is ultrawuss. Let them die now & then you hear some great lines and it forces you to use peeps you've never used before. Stats losses are also completely fair and overcoming the added difficulty is an essential part of the game. I've finished a game with an IMP who was dumber than Hamous even though he'd started at 84 wisdom. I promise you that you'll get far more out of the game if you don't sir-reload-alot.

Re: Merc Relationships? (non romance)[message #227133] Tue, 14 July 2009 16:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Agnostik

 
Messages:49
Registered:October 2008
Location: St. Petersburg, Russia
Headrock

As far as I know, personality traits have nothing to do with it. I've researched this stuff (I wasn't lazy). Neither does nationality, sex, or race.

Hmm, interesting. What DO these traits (racism/sexism/appearance/refinement/etc) affect then?
Re: Merc Relationships? (non romance)[message #227134] Tue, 14 July 2009 16:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3395
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
well, there are no speech-files for them - or may be some of the 'mouthing-their-feet' were intented for that (e.g. razor comments about arulcan people), so it's probably a bunch of dead-ends
Re: Merc Relationships? (non romance)[message #227144] Tue, 14 July 2009 17:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaerar

 
Messages:2067
Registered:January 2003
Location: Australia :D
I'm sure they are linked to opinions. But I can't see if that's true or not Sad


Re: Merc Relationships? (non romance)[message #227165] Tue, 14 July 2009 19:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1781
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
Quote:
What DO these traits (racism/sexism/appearance/refinement/etc) affect then?


Nothing.


Re: Merc Relationships? (non romance)[message #227239] Wed, 15 July 2009 11:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Will Gates

 
Messages:1030
Registered:September 2006
Location: Far far away.
Are you sure about that?

Re: Merc Relationships? (non romance)[message #227240] Wed, 15 July 2009 12:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1781
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
As I said, I've done the actual research. It was kind of mandatory when externalizing prof.dat. Also wrote the article, for posterity.

Wink


Re: Merc Relationships? (non romance)[message #227247] Wed, 15 July 2009 13:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Will Gates

 
Messages:1030
Registered:September 2006
Location: Far far away.
[color:#33CC00]MARRYING OFF A FEMALE MERC

Well, I said I was going to explain merc behaviour traits, and this may be a nice simple example
for one of them. The "sexist" property can be seen in PROEDIT, and has four settings:


Not Sexist
Somewhat Sexist
Very Sexist
Gentleman


When you marry one of your female mercs to the Hicks near Cambria, some members of the group may
suffer morale loss as a result. Surprisingly, buddies don't come into play here, but sexism,
gender, and hatred do.

In this formula, "MERC_to_Check" is the person whose reaction we are trying to determine.
"Married_Merc" is Flo. Or, whoever you chose to leave with the filthy hicks, so yeah, it's Flo.

Code:
If MERC_to_Check hates "Married_Merc", then:
Ha, no problems with it!
Else:
If MERC_to_Check is a FEMALE, then:
If Merc_to_Check is Somewhat Sexist, then:
Lose 5 points of Morale.
If Merc_to_Check is Very Sexist, then:
Lose 10 points of Morale.
Else (if Merc_to_Check is MALE):
If Merc_to_Check is a Gentleman, then:
Lose 5 points of Morale.


Pretty simple. Most female mercs are at least somewhat sexist, so they'll probably be offended, as
will the gentleman males. Surprisingly, Flo is not a sexist, so she probably won't be offended when
you marry her into the Klan.

---------------------------------------------

OTHER EFFECTS OF SEXISM, RACISM, AND HATED NATIONALITY

This is a complicated issue, so pay close attention:

There are none.

Yeah, you heard me.....[/color]

What about NPC Reactions & Traders Prices etc? Surely that is where something may have an effect?

[Updated on: Wed, 15 July 2009 13:44] by Moderator


Re: Merc Relationships? (non romance)[message #227445] Thu, 16 July 2009 14:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaerar

 
Messages:2067
Registered:January 2003
Location: Australia :D
Kordanor that is actually a very useful tool Smile


Re: Merc Relationships? (non romance)[message #227955] Sun, 19 July 2009 22:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kordanor

 
Messages:28
Registered:March 2008
upon popular demand *cough* I have added the hates/hated by addendum and arrows for th friendships as Kaerar suggested.

I also added a possibility to highlight all mercs with a special skill.
While this feature is working it is not quite polished:
I am aware that it's hardly possible to see if someone is expert or not. With my knowledge it wasn't possible though to make an other difference than in the alpha value.
So the question was if I should highlight all with 100% and skip experts completely or do it this way, where you can't see non experts very well and can hardly tell the difference.
The other major problem is that the skill you choose is not locked and will therefore be overwritten as soon as you highlight the merc as it sets the alpha value to the same object.

Anyways, you can find the new version here:
http://ndnw.piranho.de/JA2/relationships.html
Re: Merc Relationships? (non romance)[message #227972] Mon, 20 July 2009 01:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1781
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
Cool but... huge. I mean, I can't see the entire thing, on a 1280x1024 display! Doesn't work very well considering you need to mouse-over them to see the hates.


Re: Merc Relationships? (non romance)[message #227977] Mon, 20 July 2009 01:35 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Kordanor

 
Messages:28
Registered:March 2008
Well, actually it has a width of 1530, should work in 1600X1200 normal screens or 1680X1050 Widesreen.
Anyways you can access the file which is embedded into the html file by accessing http://ndnw.piranho.de/JA2/big2.swf
Browser Settings might need some adjustemnts so that you do not automtatically download it.
do not expect it looking pretty then though ^^

If there is something to auto resize it which can be added into the html code, I can add it.
I am just not sure about what exactly it is, as I didn't manage to get the initial page created by flash (which contained this feature) to work with my settings you find on this HTML page now.

[Updated on: Mon, 20 July 2009 01:49] by Moderator

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