Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » v1.13 Idea Incubation Lab » How about adding an UAV?
How about adding an UAV?[message #229800]
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Thu, 30 July 2009 05:12
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MZ0125 |
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Messages:18
Registered:December 2008 |
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I just watched a video about the Global Hawk/Predator UAV of the US. And I wonder if it's possible to add an UAV to the game?
Skyrider can spot enemies with his chopper. Yet he can be shot down quite easy in red zones and can not be replenished. What I'm thinking is that with a UAV, we can just buy/build another one if it's destroyed. Since as our smartypants Headrock has his feature of unable to detect distant enemy groups implemented, early warning of enemy existence becomes more important, at least in my point of view
And it does not need to be a Global Hawk, it could just be a big model plane with cameras fitted on... and the SAMs got a really hard time on hitting them, or maybe not at all. Can we make it possible to have certain chance crashing on its own? as it is not some really fancy Global Hawk like UAVs, but a model plane almost made out of scavenged parts... you know... mechanical malfunction... or maybe depends on the mechanical and wisdom skill of the merc who is controlling the UAV?
Or maybe, after our super smart Headrock finish his modification about extra facilities and manned facilities, we can add a UAV controll center at Dressen Airport, where the UAV can take off and land, while someone has to stay there and operate the UAV.
Well... I'm not much of a programmer... So I'm not sure how much work will this be... Please don't skin me if I asked too much...
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Private
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Re: How about adding an UAV?[message #234202]
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Fri, 02 October 2009 11:19
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LootFragg |
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Messages:349
Registered:August 2009 Location: Berlin, Germany |
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The setting of the game is irrelevant. There are fingerprint ID locked automatic rocket rifles and there's the Metal Storm electronically ignited ammunition, so a cheap model plane doesn't stand out at all.
Basically, I like the idea of a UAV and with your proposal to implement malfunctions, this could be easily balanced out. A UAV could detect enemy movement on the strategic map, possibly reveiling an approximate group size (small, medium, large or Deidranna's revenge). In combat, if a UAV is in the sector, it's got a certain chance of detecting enemies, depending on whether or not enemies are camouflaged, standing near trees or bushes or are hidden below roofs, thus not being visible to the drone at all. This could add a really nice combat element and it could be adjusted to fit the needs of a "high tech special agents squad player type" or a "poor rebels defending their poor country with a poor reconnaissance drone type" by increasing or decreasing the relative chance to spot an enemy per turn / per 10 seconds in real time or alike.
Wow, that's a gorgeous idea actually. I like it. But I can't code. And most of the coders seem to be very busy, so you'll have to discuss that idea, come to a perfect conclusion and wait for some coder to pick up your perfectly designed first post with pictures of eventual graphics and exact description of your ideas. And then... voil
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Re: How about adding an UAV?[message #234228]
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Fri, 02 October 2009 13:54
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LootFragg |
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Messages:349
Registered:August 2009 Location: Berlin, Germany |
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Okay, the ideas are going into a different direction here. Toy cars with bombs, I like your evil thoughts. The car could be a merc, but with a very high stealth and camo level, so there's little chance to spot it, but it's a bit too creative, I think.
The UAV shouldn't really be a robot / vehicle of some sorts. It's not really there, it flies high above your head and takes snapshots of you, so there's no need to exercise control over it when in combat, you only fly it from sector to sector. That's what I think fits best, both gameplaywise and realistic.
Focus a bit back on the drone and think further. Answer all the necessary points and keep coming up with ideas.
By the way, you don't have to entirely stick to the third world 80s soviet weapon country theme. There are so many weapons, weapon mods and for mods containing modern infantry combat (Night Ops?) a UAV drone could really be a great addon. Though for standard JA2, a simple and very ineffective drone will do fine.
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Re: How about adding an UAV?[message #234233]
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Fri, 02 October 2009 14:49
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Requiem |
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Messages:93
Registered:February 2007 |
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LootFraggOkay, the ideas are going into a different direction here. Toy cars with bombs, I like your evil thoughts. The car could be a merc, but with a very high stealth and camo level, so there's little chance to spot it, but it's a bit too creative, I think. Too creative how?
LootFraggThe UAV shouldn't really be a robot / vehicle of some sorts. It's not really there, it flies high above your head and takes snapshots of you, so there's no need to exercise control over it when in combat, you only fly it from sector to sector. That's what I think fits best, both gameplaywise and realistic. In otherwords a replacement for the x-ray device, only needing refueling rather than batteries and having a greater range.
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Corporal 1st Class
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Re: How about adding an UAV?[message #234239]
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Fri, 02 October 2009 16:32
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LootFragg |
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Messages:349
Registered:August 2009 Location: Berlin, Germany |
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I mean too creative in a way that we move off the main topic when thinking about more vehicles.
I have to admit that I've never used the x-ray device, but yes, it's strategically similar, I guess. Though, if I'm right concerning the device, it spots targets in a certain range and is very reliable, plus it can see through walls. Am I right? Now, the drone also has a reconnaissance effect. On the battlefield it works as a global modifier. I think it's best to calculate the chance to detect an enemy based on whether or not he has been spotted before or lost out of sight, is camouflaged, like I said hidden in bushes or high grass, and it should work very randomly and not always in a way of revealing the enemy, but only marking his position as an approximate value. The difference is that in close combat the system won't give you the results a scanner would, it would be too unreliable and blurred and not able to spot enemies hidden in buildings, but at longer ranges, such a drone could give a strategical advantage by marking average enemy group positions and at times revealing even some. Now that you mention it, you could achieve perfect reconnaissance by using the x-ray device and the drone.
You said refueling. Do you mean returning to the airport as Skyrider does or would you want gasoline to play a role? If yes, how much and would you want it to be maintained like a vehicle with repairing and refueling it?
The second effect of the drone however is watching enemy movement on the map. With HAM's need for reconnaissance you could use your drone to gather intelligence like militia does, only fast, with better control and the chance to explore enemy territory with less probability of being shot down due to its size, if I understood the first posts correctly.
I'd like to add that the drone should only be available when the game advances, like the robot, for example. If we play around with thoughts a bit, we could also think of adding an NPC, perhaps a computer kid, whatever that kid should have to do in Arulco. Madlab's nephew? =D
So he could give you the quest to look for parts he can analyze, hard to find stuff, a walk-man, a lameboy, a fumble pak, the VHS camera and he only copies the technology. That way you wouldn't interfere with the other quests by consuming rare parts. That kid will demand payment for every action, only work after you've met his uncle, need several parts and demand stuff you find around Arulco to build a spy drone from model plane parts he steals from the airport, whatever. So building a drone is time consuming and takes up valuable ressources and you'll have the option to get one, since it can come crashing down every other day thus costing lots of cash.
When thinking of treating it like a vehicle... well, someone has to find out whether or not that works. It should only spawn on the map when it's at the airport, possibly next to the shipment store. You could then refuel it with gas and repair it like you would repair the ice cream truck.
Graphics shouldn't be the main problem, I suppose. It should fit, but it can look very simple and doesn't need animation.
Oi, keep storming your brains, fellow drone lovers!
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Re: How about adding an UAV?[message #234244]
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Fri, 02 October 2009 18:29
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LootFragg |
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Messages:349
Registered:August 2009 Location: Berlin, Germany |
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There's one problem. Animations. If you really want to make it launchable in combat, you need an appropriate merc animation (say "throw") and you'll need the drone itself, probably visible all the time when carried around and JA2 is not designed to show equipped gear. When throwing it you need to circumvent the projectile engine so you don't throw a drone to land on the ground again, but you want it to boost up to the skies. That means lots of extra scripting and an entirely new way of setting stuff. You want to use it like a remote, add a throw animation, add a drone to the hand or play an animation where the drone is launched over the merc's head, that animation has to have 8 different angles. It's a whole lot of effort and I liked the idea due to its simplicity. JA2 is obviously a hard to modify game. I've asked the question if there is the chance to change the mortar illumination shell animation, so it only shoots up, but doesn't come down and still illuminate everything below it, but it's not possible with the projectile engine right now, so you're basically digging a deep effort hole and having 6 coders work day and night on this project is just not worth it. It's just a minor addon.
So I'd definitely stick with the vehicle type drone.
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Re: How about adding an UAV?[message #234319]
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Sun, 04 October 2009 01:48
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Czert |
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Messages:105
Registered:August 2007 |
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I think for controling UAV you will need command truck, and actual UAV will be represented as merc (robot).
1. command truck - serves as start/land/refuel/transport base for UAV. Moves same ways as normal vehicle in game. Need one merc to drive/operate. Cant carry more mercs/items. only UAV.
How to aqure CT ? Thats about discusion. You can get it from "madlabs brother" for free (quest), quest + demanding of one of your vehicles to convert to CV (very interesing posibility) , or directly from madlab in exhage for robot (so, you will have robot or UAV, not booth).
2. UAV - if it can be upgraded/assembled from parts is matter of discusion. How it will work ?
In strategical mode, as mini-copter (range 4 sectors from CV - simulates radio range, shorter duration than helictoper - endurance, auto refual from CV, much smaller chance of begin shot down by SAM - much harder to spot by radar/target to missile).
In tactical mode - thats hardest thing to evolve - it will be placed off--map (as skyrider/helicopter), works same ways as X-ray, wilt limited uses, before it needs retun to base for "reload". Yes, direct flyiing over ground, controling it..etc will be very nice, but I thing hard to code (and need new animations), and make this long term project (and IIRC we have much nicer big project ahead of us - NGAP, mayby after this is done).
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Sergeant
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Re: How about adding an UAV?[message #234329]
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Sun, 04 October 2009 04:59
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LootFragg |
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Messages:349
Registered:August 2009 Location: Berlin, Germany |
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Yeah, the shirt guys running around unarmoured. Okay, get it. Well, I'm not sure about animations, since I'm not the guy behind the code, but I think I've talked to Headrock about mortars and he told me, I guess he did, that you can't shoot without a projectile being emitted, so then I tried to find out whether it's possible to make that projectile disappear halfway, that's what it was about. So using the animation is not the problem, but it's not possible with the gun system. You can't just launch it like usual equipment.
You could also use MadLab, why not? I thought of maintenance, but you could also land it elsewhere.
Or you could follow the idea that's presented here. Having a UAV command center truck. I didn't think of it. This could be a nice feature, limiting the range of intelligence to where you're willing to go.
Also a very interesting thing to think of is converting any vehicle, I'm thinking of the ice cream truck here, into that specific UAV support vehicle. You could sacrifice some (or all, but that's not worth it) of the valuable storage it provides and get a nice reconnaissance drone. This means you don't need many additional costs and negative features to balance it out, since you've already given up the capacity the truck provides. Recovering and repairing the drone could then be simulated by just spawning another drone at that vehicle after a certain time or you could drive back to madlab and he builds one. The drone could be an item, a big one like the jerrycan, that you'd have to put into the remaining inventory of the UAV truck in order to be able to launch it. You could also add a wrecked drone that appears in the sector the drone crashed. You would have to bring it back to MadLab so he can use some of the parts again, but of course, he would need to buy some other rare stuff and since he's low on finances, it's you who would have to tip him.
Great idea, very nice.
I also haven't thought of the mini-copter. I was against the use of a real drone in tactical mode, because a small airplane (what we were talking about earlier) doesn't stand still and doesn't fly at that altitude. A helicopter, however, working the same way a military UAV drone could (thinking of Ghost Recon), could be visible in combat and even be shot down. That's another dimension I did not entirely think about. It would require only few animations (8 directions, some rotor movement, a crash animation) and work as a direct spotter, not as a global detection tool.
It's still easier to just leave it in strategical and not include it as an object in tactical mode.
Czert, it's not a matter of importance, this is, after all, a very remote thought and not necessary to the game. You're right, however, that it's better to keep it simple (JA2 principle), so possible coders won't have to do much more work than what is necessary. Even if it gets coded, making a drone available in tactical view is just another step that doesn't interfere much with what we have come up with, yet.
I'd therefore stick with simplicity first and make the drone available in strategical mode, coding only the random chance of detecting people in the open, the drone itself being more of an abstract thing, like Skyrider, who also never shows up in the map.
So there basically are these two decisions to make so far:
Vehicle based
- A modified truck / any other vehicle that can launch our drone (how?)
- It takes care of any maintenance and refueling.
- It needs one merc (or two?) to drive around / control the drone.
Airport based
- The drone has a starting / landing sector (preferably the airport).
- It works the way Skyrider works.
- Maintenance and refueling could be done in that sector via repair / the gas can action.
- It needs a merc to be either there or have a remote control / specific headset.
Logisteric, I don't get what you mean by handler. Isn't that covered in 1.) uav = robot ? So either there is someone in the vehicle or he's got a remote.
And you mentioned that there are the two possibilities of either making it a vehicle and putting someone inside it or making it a robot with someone controlling it via remote. Aren't there any further possibilities? If not, I'd make it a vehicle and put a dummy inside. Skyrider, after all, isn't one of your mercs either. He's there for sound purposes, but he doesn't show up or leave his helicopter, yet he's controllable via the airspace screen. Since you don't even need voices for it, the drone might be fitted with a merc you don't know anything about, just for game mechanics' sake.
Please decide whether you'd want a command truck or not. Also, keep spamming ideas. Even if they're not thought over yet. Exchange your ideas, I like that thread and want a drone in JA2.
LetoFragged
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Re: How about adding an UAV?[message #234454]
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Mon, 05 October 2009 12:46
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LootFragg |
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Messages:349
Registered:August 2009 Location: Berlin, Germany |
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Chain of thoughts: If we think of a toy copter visible on the battlefield, what we'd need is the model's animations. The way this is done is by modeling a helicopter (low polygons) in some 3D studio, apply textures, extract snapshots of it from every possible angle in an isometric stretch under the influence of a fixed light source, the same light source that exists in JA2, dunno where the sun was in that case. To the right I think. The pics have to be shifted off a bit to simulate movement, since this is a toy helicopter and thus not very stable, it would have to go up, down, left right, and so on, not in a static way, which means more angles and axis shifts. The frames have to be filtered to match the looks of JA2, some funny job for some guy who doesn't know what to do with all of his time. There should be additional effects like smoke from the engine to make that think look like a toy copter. Also, there would be a need for movement frames and a crash animation.
Fun.
I decided on trying to learn code, inspired by Sandro, thanks Sandro, but I'll most definitely fail and if I succeed, it will take time, lots of. Plus I now have less time, which sucks bloody arse. I'll not take any more care of this project until I have anything to add.
SlutFag
P.S.: Yes I did call myself this way.
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