Home » SIRTECH CLASSICS » Jagged Alliance 2 » Jagged Alliance 2 General » Some questions...well actually a lot of them
Some questions...well actually a lot of them[message #230683] Sun, 09 August 2009 21:00 Go to next message
AIM_Hero

 
Messages:9
Registered:August 2009
Hello all, I recently tried JA2 for the first time. Wow where do I start, this game is overwhelming! Having bought it from GOG.com, I'm still not quite sure I'm doing the right things, so where else to start than here, where I can throw all my questions that I've been too overwhelmed Smile

1) Is it possible to bandage mercs while they are traveling on the world map? Or is there any way to enable it?

2) When my merc is facing another merc in a vertical or horizontal straight line, the chance to hit is always lower than what it really seems. I assume this is because I have underestimated the distance between both of them. Is it true that the vertical or horizontal axis is always farther than what it seems? Having gotten very comfortable with JA1's bird's eye view, it's hard to get used to distance gauging in JA2

3) Does running while sneaking produce more noise than crawling while sneaking?

4) Why is it that the enemy will always discover my merc the moment he/she sneaks out of cover? I have a situation that goes like this: an enemy has spotted Buns, so I quickly send her to a nearby cover. I use Igor to distract the enemy, and the enemy concentrates on Igor instead. So, I send Buns into prone position to sneak up behind the enemy. However, when I end turn the enemy has detected my presence, turns around, and shoots Buns. What's up with that?

5) Is there any difference whether I sneak on different surfaces? Will sneaking on grass have a different effect compared to sneaking on gravel or sand, in terms of noise?

6) Can I create my own custom movement paths during combat? Like, I know there's an enemy somewhere. I want to spot him with my merc, but not allow my merc's cover to be exposed. I don't want the game to choose the shortest way to my destination for me. And, if I have to move more than once, I will use up 1-2 more precious APs. Is there some way for me to dictate the movement path of my merc?

7) I understand DEL and INS turn on the Line of Sight and the best place to take cover, but is there some way I can turn either one on permanently without putting an object on my keyboard?

Cool Is there some way I can enable grids on the terrain, for better judgement?

That's all I have for now. I may have more questions, because gosh the game's just too overwhelming Surprised

[Updated on: Sun, 09 August 2009 21:02] by Moderator

Re: Some questions...well actually a lot of them[message #230692] Sun, 09 August 2009 23:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
coffeecommander

 
Messages:88
Registered:June 2009
Location: Europe, and pitying you.

1) No, not while traveling. Sucks kinda, though no merc ever died on me while traveling.

2) Yes, that's true due to the non-diagonal axis always being approximately 140% longer than the diagonal ones.

3) It certainly should, and I'd wager it actually does. (Sneaking is complex)

4) He probably heard her coming, or an ally of his saw her and radio'd her position to him. (Also, he MIGHT have seen her if it's not actually from straight behind)

5) It sounds different to me, so I suppose it's possible. (Again, sneaking is complex!)

6) Not AFAIK.

7) Again, not AFAIK.

Cool Once more, AFAIK not. But it's in all other games, so I really might be wrong about this one.

And yes, yes, it's quite overwhelming for a game...then again, those were the golden days of Deus Ex and the like, so maybe it was just a good time for games to be made :professor:
Re: Some questions...well actually a lot of them[message #230700] Mon, 10 August 2009 00:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Never Darktide

 
Messages:88
Registered:July 2009
1) There is a good reason why the game offers to automatically bandage your troops after combat. Smile

2) Strange. I thought the map grid (despite the view perspective) was still built on perfect squares, in which case, the horizontal/vertical aiming should be the same as aiming down the box line. Can anyone confirm this?

4) It's most likely that another enemy spotted Buns. Just as all of your mercs "know" about all enemies each of your other mercs can see, so it is with the enemy. Since messing around with silenced weapons on a solo game, I've learned that once you make direct contact, stealth in the same sector becomes a bit more difficult.

6) Unfortunately, no. In such a scenario, you could perhaps spot the enemy with another merc, hope for an interrupt, or try sidestepping/walking backwards to lure the enemy into a trap or something of the sort.
Re: Some questions...well actually a lot of them[message #230711] Mon, 10 August 2009 05:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Laclongquan

 
Messages:76
Registered:April 2007
the game calculate distance on its own. press F to see the distance between you and enemy.

If one (s) see you, best kill them all on that turn, because they know your face already. If you kill them all, the rest of them know there's enemies on sector but dont know where, so the perfect condition for sneaking on real time still preserve. If you left them conscicous, ie still standing and with stamina to spare, they still can see you can communicate that to their faraway comrades.

Option (O) has an option call map grid or something, that can make the boxes visible. Check it out.

And you are playing 113, right? Since seem to me you play straight of the cd, so you game might be pre-113.
Re: Some questions...well actually a lot of them[message #230715] Mon, 10 August 2009 06:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1781
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
Quote:
1) Is it possible to bandage mercs while they are traveling on the world map? Or is there any way to enable it?


Not while actually MOVING from sector to sector. But you can "DOCTOR" them and that immediately bandages them, even if you don't intend to complete the healing. You'll need a medical kit for this.

Quote:

7) I understand DEL and INS turn on the Line of Sight and the best place to take cover, but is there some way I can turn either one on permanently without putting an object on my keyboard?


No, but there should be. It's an interesting idea for 1.13, a toggle switch of sorts. I like it. I'm not sure the game can work very well like that though. But it's something to try.

Quote:
Option (O) has an option call map grid or something, that can make the boxes visible. Check it out.


Unfortunately, there's nothing like that in any version of JA2 I know of. Sad


Re: Some questions...well actually a lot of them[message #230723] Mon, 10 August 2009 09:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Laclongquan

 
Messages:76
Registered:April 2007
Sorry, its the option to display wireframe for the obscured walls.

1sst aid kits could bandage wounds, surely? Just use it like med kits.

Re: Some questions...well actually a lot of them[message #230725] Mon, 10 August 2009 10:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1781
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
For the DOCTOR assignment? Does that actually work? I'm pretty sure it does not. That is part of what distinguishes 1st Aid Kits from Medical Kits.


Re: Some questions...well actually a lot of them[message #230727] Mon, 10 August 2009 10:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Laclongquan

 
Messages:76
Registered:April 2007
It doesnt work for doctor assignment. I said bandage wounds, not doctor. He asked about bandage, see, not doctoring as such.

Jeez, Headrock! Credit peeps with some sense to answer the actual question, will ya?

For the question on sneaking:

If enemies levels are higher than yours, if they are facing your mercs, if it's daylight, if your merc's AGI is too low, if your merc doesnt have Stealth skill, and if the enemies are alerted (such as you kill another before very loudly with guns/grenades), then yes, sneaking is very hard.

Best tim to use sneaking is in the cover of night, your merc got Stealth, good to great AGI, some kind of camo(better than 50), night vision goggle or UVG, and with level at higher than 3, and behind the back of them. Even then you must take care not to use loud weapons to kill. knives, or fists only.

IF you play a mod 1.13 game, sneaking is even more convenient with the appearance of real time sneaking. And the enemies got smarter, like flanking the suspicious areas, or ambushes the likely routes.
Re: Some questions...well actually a lot of them[message #230734] Mon, 10 August 2009 11:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1781
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
Quote:
I said bandage wounds, not doctor.


But you said so in response to my line:

Quote:
But you can "DOCTOR" them and that immediately bandages them, even if you don't intend to complete the healing. You'll need a medical kit for this.


As soon as you've got a doctor and a patient assigned, the doctor will bandage the patient... as long as he's got a medikit. In fact, you can't initiate Doctor assignment without one. AIMHero's original question was whether mercs can be told to bandage while travelling on the map, which I took to mean "while not in tactical mode". Until he clarifies what he means, however, we can't know which answer was more appropriate of course.


Re: Some questions...well actually a lot of them[message #230741] Mon, 10 August 2009 13:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AIM_Hero

 
Messages:9
Registered:August 2009
Hey to clear up the confusion, yeah I was referring to bandaging wounds while traveling on the world map. I kinda messed myself up by running from battle (hence no auto bandaging), and one of my mercs was already badly injured. Not knowing better, I compressed time, and my merc ended up dead. So, yeah, that's why I asked.

Anyone know how the distance between me and the bad guy is calculated? It doesn't seem to be calculated based on a straight line, but I could be wrong.
Re: Some questions...well actually a lot of them[message #230798] Tue, 11 August 2009 05:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Laclongquan

 
Messages:76
Registered:April 2007
does it really matter? because you point mouse at the distance you want to calculate, press F, and the game calculate for you.

Wait, does that feature present pre-113?

Another question for Headrock:

Say I got 3 mercs in one sector, with one know nothing about med. Two got medkits, and one of those two got wound. Now, if you set the two to Doctor they still work without set who is the patient. The wound got healed. Now I want to know that in that case, did the wound get cured by Doctor assignment of TWO, or just ONE. If it's one, from whom?
Re: Some questions...well actually a lot of them[message #230799] Tue, 11 August 2009 07:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1781
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
Quote:
Hey to clear up the confusion, yeah I was referring to bandaging wounds while traveling on the world map. I kinda messed myself up by running from battle (hence no auto bandaging), and one of my mercs was already badly injured. Not knowing better, I compressed time, and my merc ended up dead. So, yeah, that's why I asked.


In that case the answer is no - it's a flaw in the game. If you do flee manually, and have people injured, your best bet is either to go down the road (assuming there's a road) or to an adjacent city sector (assuming you're also fleeing from one). Otherwise, you're screwed.

Quote:
Say I got 3 mercs in one sector, with one know nothing about med. Two got medkits, and one of those two got wound. Now, if you set the two to Doctor they still work without set who is the patient. The wound got healed. Now I want to know that in that case, did the wound get cured by Doctor assignment of TWO, or just ONE. If it's one, from whom?


Both doctors are doing the healing at the same time.

See, every doctor is also considered as a patient, if he is injured at all. You can have a wounded doctor treat himself. He only needs a medikit for this. If you add a second doctor, the healing will go faster because they are both working on the same guy. Doctor #1 is healing himself. Doctor #2 is healing Doctor #1.

But I'm not sure I understood the question. Why are there 3 people in your example? What is the third guy doing?


Re: Some questions...well actually a lot of them[message #230804] Tue, 11 August 2009 09:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Laclongquan

 
Messages:76
Registered:April 2007
3rd guy know nothing about med.

if i remember correctly, not every times doctor can heal his/her self.

[Updated on: Tue, 11 August 2009 09:33] by Moderator

Re: Some questions...well actually a lot of them[message #230817] Tue, 11 August 2009 13:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Starwalker

 
Messages:768
Registered:October 2005
Location: Hannover, Germany
Never_Darktide
2) Strange. I thought the map grid (despite the view perspective) was still built on perfect squares, in which case, the horizontal/vertical aiming should be the same as aiming down the box line. Can anyone confirm this?

A perfectly vertical or horizontal line of sight on the screen means you are looking over the tiles corner-to-corner (diagonally, longest distance inside a square).

Looking into the directions NW, NE, SE, and SW on-screen means you are looking down the tiles edge-to-edge (shortest possible distance within a square).

So maybe the calculation of the actual distance is a bit off...


Re: Some questions...well actually a lot of them[message #230828] Tue, 11 August 2009 17:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Will Gates

 
Messages:1030
Registered:September 2006
Location: Far far away.
It's an isometric grid and therefore all distances are measured in terms of tiles or grid squares. A shot due north "looks" closer than a shot due east because the tiles are isometrically squashed to give you the impression of a 3 dimensional world ish. Just think in tiles as that's what the game uses for a gun's range.

Re: Some questions...well actually a lot of them[message #230834] Tue, 11 August 2009 20:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1781
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
That's assuming that the game calculates them correctly, of course. The maths are often inconsistent, JA2 was full of different methods and techniques to do similar things in different parts of the code, so it's quite possible that someone made a mistake and diagonals are actually longer (or shorter) than they should logically be.


Re: Some questions...well actually a lot of them[message #230838] Tue, 11 August 2009 21:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
coffeecommander

 
Messages:88
Registered:June 2009
Location: Europe, and pitying you.

No, I checked and it's correct. Diagonals are longer than verticals and horizontals by a factor equal to the square root of two, which is coherent with the actual geometry of squares.
Re: Some questions...well actually a lot of them[message #230848] Tue, 11 August 2009 22:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Never Darktide

 
Messages:88
Registered:July 2009
Crap. I didn't pay much attention in school.
Re: Some questions...well actually a lot of them[message #230851] Tue, 11 August 2009 23:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
coffeecommander

 
Messages:88
Registered:June 2009
Location: Europe, and pitying you.

Now I feel geeky :/
Re: Some questions...well actually a lot of them[message #230854] Wed, 12 August 2009 00:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1781
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
Pythagoras has claimed another victim.


Re: Some questions...well actually a lot of them[message #231045] Fri, 14 August 2009 04:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaerar

 
Messages:2067
Registered:January 2003
Location: Australia :D
Who's this Pythagoras dude, and wtf is he doing claiming victims Wink

Maths murder aside, it stands to reason that with the amount of detail this game has that they included across square distance into the shooting algorithms!


Re: Some questions...well actually a lot of them[message #231053] Fri, 14 August 2009 05:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Never Darktide

 
Messages:88
Registered:July 2009
The thing about Sir-Tech is that they were thinking "gameplay first, graphics second". And that is a huge compliment; I think I've had much more fun playing JA/DG/JA2 and Wizardry 8 (playing it right now) than some of the more modern RPGs. I think people are just too worried about having perfect graphics. I could go into an "overrated" list, but I won't, because I'd probably offend some people. Smile
Re: Some questions...well actually a lot of them[message #231094] Sat, 15 August 2009 00:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lockie

 
Messages:3928
Registered:February 2006
Location: Scotland
Quote:
. I could go into an "overrated" list, but I won't, because I'd probably offend some people.


Oh , go on then , offend away !

:viking:


Re: Some questions...well actually a lot of them[message #231099] Sat, 15 August 2009 02:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Never Darktide

 
Messages:88
Registered:July 2009
Alright, then. Smile

High on my list, modern RPG or no, are JA and DG (although they are more combat than RPG), JA2, Wizardry 8, Arcanum, and Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall. None of them are particularly impressive in the graphics department, and I don't think any of them were in their time. What makes them so much fun is the innovation, especially in character creation (or team creation in JA). So many ways to set up my character! The sheer number of choices has kept me from starting another game of Arcanum, which is funny. In addition, each of these games has a relatively large world, or at least, variable enough to keep it interesting throughout. That is what I'm looking for in an RPG.

Low on my list...well, I should put a word in about Oblivion first. Oblivion is a good game, don't get me wrong, but it is SO MUCH BETTER with mods. The thing about all of the above games is that they are awesome fun out of the box (or, in the case of JA2, fun extensions come free Wink ). I do play it, but it also eats a lot of system resources, probably partly due to mods. So, you give some, you take some.

Now, overrated RPGs...or moreover, the ones that are only fun once or twice through, then they get boring (IMO, after playing them/possibly replaying)...both KotOR games, Fable, and Fallout 3 (2 was better) are the first that come to mind. Also, I hate Diablo 2, and I have no love for WoW either (more like a blood oath not to play it, ever). I don't hate games because they're popular, but because they're either just pretty or have an overly simple play structure.

So yeah, I am opinionated. There are a lot of different RPGs but it does boil down (for me) into the ones that have multiple paths of power and the ones that have one or two.
Re: Some questions...well actually a lot of them[message #231107] Sat, 15 August 2009 09:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lockie

 
Messages:3928
Registered:February 2006
Location: Scotland
Even before broadband and joining Bearpit ,and d/ling mods , Ja was my favourite game .I kept returning for 'just another go'. Now I rarely play anything else , I have FO 3 ,enjoyed it ,finished it ,haven't d/led any of the extra chapters !
Arcanum was good , Planescape better and I have d/led various mods for both , just not tried em yet.
Got other games ,but the only other series to have remotely the replayability of JA is the (of course) 1st two x com games .*sigh* Very Happy


Re: Some questions...well actually a lot of them[message #231115] Sat, 15 August 2009 16:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Never Darktide

 
Messages:88
Registered:July 2009
Haven't played X-Com yet, although I've seen gameplay and it seems like a lot of fun. Probably one of the next on my list.
Re: Some questions...well actually a lot of them[message #231140] Sun, 16 August 2009 08:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Laclongquan

 
Messages:76
Registered:April 2007
Silent Storms, and Silent Storm Sentinels are very good tactical squad-based combat game. they are the successors to Fallout Tactics and Jagged Alliance 2, but of the 3D engine. Pretty impressive.
Re: Some questions...well actually a lot of them[message #231141] Sun, 16 August 2009 08:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1781
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
Until those stupid walking tanks show up. Good thing there are mods to turn that off.


Re: Some questions...well actually a lot of them[message #231147] Sun, 16 August 2009 11:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lockie

 
Messages:3928
Registered:February 2006
Location: Scotland
As Headrock says , right up till it gets wasted by those iron suits. Mad


Re: Some questions...well actually a lot of them[message #231149] Sun, 16 August 2009 13:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Laclongquan

 
Messages:76
Registered:April 2007
Goggle!

You mean you didnt have fun trying to take them out all the ways you could? you mean you let piddly stuff like a couple of primitive walking mecha suits turn you off from such an excellent game?

Really, mecha suits serve two purposes. One they are stuffs to be gathered and stocked in my warehouse. They warm the cockles of my heart so! Two they serve as a bit of power balancer. The AI is overwhelmed by my briliant tactics, so they need such as mecha suits. I, otoh, dont need such.
Re: Some questions...well actually a lot of them[message #231150] Sun, 16 August 2009 15:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1781
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
The problem with them is that they are so out of place. I mean, walking armored suits with guns may be cool in some settings, but they are completely ridiculous in a setting that should by all means have been rife with TANKS fulfilling the same purpose, except there is not a tank in sight. You spend several hours (if not more) going through the missions, fighting some classic and highly enjoyable WW2 infantry-vs-infantry, and when the enemy suddenly have the advantage, it's some sort of applied phlebotinum? Where are all the grades in between? I guess it was too jarring for me. So I found a mod that removes the panzerkleins and whoop-dee-doo. If you want a challenge, just up the difficulty settings. Especially in the second game, it can be more murderous than Wildfire on INSANE with HAM 3.5 and the mine income set to 1%.


Re: Some questions...well actually a lot of them[message #231157] Sun, 16 August 2009 18:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Laclongquan

 
Messages:76
Registered:April 2007
S3 is still not much of a challenge at the highest difficulty. True, the money is good. But, it's not as if money play that much of a difference in the game. Not like mod 113 with the increased aggressive of Queen's attacks. It comes to that I have to station garrison teams in major cities and sites and preemptive attack the patrol to prevent major battles. Money to pay for them force my tempo to slow down.
Re: Some questions...well actually a lot of them[message #231214] Mon, 17 August 2009 18:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Never Darktide

 
Messages:88
Registered:July 2009
Sometimes, with all these adjustments, I have no idea how some people manage to use the wacky tactics that they do. Ah well, video games never reflect reality that well. Smile

I also still find it funny that more militia generally die in tactical combat than in auto-resolve.

Tanks scare the living hell out of me, too, but I've been lucky (heh) enough to not get hit by one. Although I always expected that a tank could score a 1-hit kill...but that has been far from the case in some other games.
Re: Some questions...well actually a lot of them[message #231253] Tue, 18 August 2009 06:04 Go to previous message
Laclongquan

 
Messages:76
Registered:April 2007
Havent met tanks yet, in 113. I still mess around with other towns and sites, and leave Meduna area alone for now.

Militia should always concentrate on one area. It allow them to engage Queen's troops at numerical advantages and limit them to enemies' fires. You only spread them out if you have multiple mortars and want to bring the hammer of Thor down on all fronts.

Although, sometimes enemies attack when the militia is green and you cant move them to other areas (like a Sam site, for instance). In that case you could lock them down in a closed room and mine/blue flag the entrance. they will stay put inside and you have freedom to engage enemies. That's the tactic I used when the central Sam site were attacked, and I got 18 green ones sitting around. The central room with alarm button is roomy but a bit hard to mine safely. The toilet in the barrack works better.

ONE burning question: when our merc would stay in the next tile and unarm the trap and when would they enter the trapped area and do it? I cant tell which is which, and that lead to some interesting circumstances.
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