Home » PLAYER'S HQ 1.13 » JA2 Complete Mods & Sequels » UC/DL 1.13 & AFS » UC-1.13 Public Beta Discussion 1 (2009/10/29 to 2010/10/16)
Re: UC-1.13 Public Beta Discussion 1 (2009/10/29 to --/--/--)[message #264300] Tue, 05 October 2010 14:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Toneone

 
Messages:377
Registered:October 2008
Location: Germany
Hey Wil,

Quote:

Hazmat, I loaded up your savegame with the SCI test install (after modifying the Merc limit). It didn't crash for me, ran a few turns without doing anything unless the enemy strayed into shot. Cleared the map this way.


Strange, it still crashes for me when i load it up now.
Ive already gone back to an earlier save so it dont matter much.
I suspect my JA2 base instal to be somewhat faulty, cause i also had the unavoiadable lock-up during the first SAM cutscene again.
And as it seems im the only one around^^

Quote:
Also, where did you get the FN F2000 Tactical?

Heh, heh, wouldnt you like to know?
Very Happy

Nah, seriously when i romped through Port Kip i was lucky enough to meet Nick Gherea in C6.
Snuffed him and took his stuff, i also have a flexi vest in my stash which came from him.
Just my luck nothing else.

Quote:
The other "hi-end" rifles I have a good idea of where you found them

Well lets not be too judgy here.
Everything i have was given to me by the game, im a very nosy player and usally search everything.
The 5.56 guns were build with the Car-15

[Updated on: Tue, 05 October 2010 14:04] by Moderator

Re: UC-1.13 Public Beta Discussion 1 (2009/10/29 to --/--/--)[message #264340] Wed, 06 October 2010 00:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wil473

 
Messages:2840
Registered:September 2004
Location: Canada
I tried to hire Iggy as part of the initial team for a new game, game crash to desktop a few seconds after he acknowledged being in a combat zone. Hazmat, what were the conditions for Iggy when he arrived? Was it into a safe sector?

There is plenty of 6.8mm SPC available via the local sporting goods store. It is HP and a tad overpriced compared to what is availabe online. (Yes I checked while posting, 6.8mm SPC/.270 Cal/.277" is gaining popularity amonst hunters in the US.)

[Updated on: Wed, 06 October 2010 00:31] by Moderator



Re: UC-1.13 Public Beta Discussion 1 (2009/10/29 to --/--/--)[message #264362] Wed, 06 October 2010 12:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Toneone

 
Messages:377
Registered:October 2008
Location: Germany
Hey Wil,

Quote:
I tried to hire Iggy as part of the initial team for a new game, game crash to desktop a few seconds after he acknowledged being in a combat zone. Hazmat, what were the conditions for Iggy when he arrived? Was it into a safe sector?


Yes it was safe.
I always move the drop zone to "drassen" airport as soon as i clear the first SAM.
The only weird thing was that he came with a big red word spelling "NADA" in one of his combat pack slots but he had no combat pack to begin with.
Maybe this caused a crash for you?


Quote:
There is plenty of 6.8mm SPC available via the local sporting goods store. It is HP and a tad overpriced compared to what is availabe online.


Yeah, but i usally dont bother with HP ammo.
The majority of enemys already have kevlar vests and i upped the elite percentage so spectra is already showing up more frequent.



One question though, which of these are in Kingpins faction?
1.Cops
2.Bikers in Atremo
3.Subway thugs

Thing is, Kingpin&goons were hostile to me when i entered port Kip.
Not a problem as such, cause i always kill him, still i would like to know ehat triggered his hostility?
Re: UC-1.13 Public Beta Discussion 1 (2009/10/29 to --/--/--)[message #264398] Thu, 07 October 2010 00:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wil473

 
Messages:2840
Registered:September 2004
Location: Canada
Iggy, occupies the character slot used by Tex in v1.13. I couldn't have two Tex's running around, so that M.E.R.C. merc has been mostly used by a placeholder. At one point there was thought given to putting Tbird's self portrait graphic set there, but I think obtaining a complete sound set was the show stopper for that plan. Recently I tried to stick Iggy there as we have a complete speech set for him already in game (its even still implemented right now), but for some reason his face graphics keep crashing the game when he is part of the initial landing party. The character works just fine if I change the graphic back to Tex, or to that IMP replacement face based on Ding Chavez (Rainbow Six). For that reason, I never gave the character slot a proper set of starting gear. I will for the next version.

If someone can supply me with an original set of face graphics that "fit" Iggy's speech set, I'll figure out how to edit the M.E.R.C. descriptions again to refer to him getting plastic surgery after Alrulco.


None to 2. and 3. Some to 1. In Urban Chaos, the factions are not what they seem to be...

Kingpin's faction can look like cops and bikers but only exist in Port Kip. Aside from the player opening fire on them, basically there are only two "civilian" factions with extra triggers to go hostile in Jagged Allince 2: Hicks and Kingpin's crew. At night you will notice that gunrunners and most police (except in some Port Kip sectors) will go hostile, usually after a speech about you being an unwanted intruder. The Subway Thugs are also part of the Hicks faction, but they are triggered to go hostile by a NPC scripted to go hostile and linked to the Hicks faction. In theory, if you never encounter these NPC's (don't go into the subway) and never vist the maps this faction occurs in at night, they will never go hostile. Now I changed a few things so that Kingpin's faction is also almost certain to go hostile (which seems to be the desired outcome based on Randolph Hearst's speech when you deliver the documents).

Specific Triggers:
C6 - repurposed one of the scripted "seek-out-and-go-hostile" NPC slots to be Remington, the over eager "bent" cop that had the photographer under surveillance. If you approach the photographer in the bar, Remington will see you and trigger the Kingpin faction to go hostile. There are some new plot elements littering the floor too.

D5 and D6 - Kingpin trip alarm in front of a panic button. Unless you are very sneaky, one of the Queen's troops will run and hit this panic button, setting off the trip alarm in the process.

Why I did this:
Miranda/Documents Quest - it is implied that you are supposed to wipe out Kingpin's faction. This means you have to initiate the hostilities, causing a severe morale drop due to game mechanics. Otherwise you have to use cheat codes or exploit game mechanics/limits with high explosives.

Every Other Cop/Gangster in Danubia is already hostile to you

The Kingpin Quest is actually a game ender - handing over the MOC list to him (and not shooting him immedately after he pays) prevents you from finishing UC. In original Urban Chaos you lose the laptop, laptop+GDI, and diskette on each step to produce the MOC list. Indeed it is very annoying to have to find multiple diskettes (most have a random chance of appearing, with only the one on Mike being a sure thing). Then there is the issue of the laptop...

Minimal modification on the plot - I'm interpreting this all as part of the MOC list hunt. Kingpin wants it, and his goons recognize you as a threat (to the goons finding it for Kingpin). Queens' forces are only tipping them off as a favour to Kingpin. See: new plot elements littering floor in C6 and D6.


EDIT: v3 Updates
- Added 10 round shotgun "magazine" definitions for the Pancor Jackhammer (DL)
- Will need to add graphics for the Pancor magazines.
- Going to see if I can morp Coolberg's Uzi into the Mag-7 CQB pump-action shotgun
- found that ItemSlotAssign.xml for NAS features seems to be easily modified in Excel

EDIT 2: v3 Updates
- Added .50AE single round ammo
- Added .50AE HP ammo
- Lone Eagle will now be chambered for .50AE, just like it was in the original Diedranna Lives! However it will be single shot only instead of being an implausable magazine fed modification as it was in DL.
- found it was easier to do the TechnoArms Mag-7 freehand, though I did use Coolberg's Uzi for its pallette
- Decided there is little to be gained from immediately rebuilding UC-1.13 for v3 base. Moreover the v3 graphic set is compatible with UC-1.13NAS v2.75. Will be working on both Alrulco based campaigns first this weekend.

[Updated on: Fri, 08 October 2010 19:56] by Moderator



Re: UC-1.13 Public Beta Discussion 1 (2009/10/29 to --/--/--)[message #264541] Fri, 08 October 2010 21:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tag8833

 
Messages:35
Registered:September 2010
Wil,
Thanks for all of your work. I installed using Tais's SCI, which worked flawlessly. Being this is a public beta, here are some issues I've uncovered. I sure most of them aren't tied to your code, and I'm sure you have the rest on the list, but you are looking for feedback.

1) I found a key card under the factory (E-13 Level -1) in Callisto. When I put it into my Keys it changed from a key card into a normal key.

2) When I enter the Subway from C-14 or C-13, I can't exit again. When I try to traverse, JA2 locks.

3) There is a travers from E-13 Level -1 that goes south Through the kitchen. When I try to traverse it, JA2 locks.

4) For some Reason, when I am in C-13 in tactical view, I can't go to strategic view and pick up items or traverse, because it thinks I'm in combat, even though I'm not. Also If I traverse straight through C-13, but don't stop it lets me, and when I enter C-13 none of the mercs say there are bad guys and the combat music doesn't start.

5) I can put masks and headgear into the Canteen slot. This seems odd but may be by design.

6) Silenced Pistols can't fit in gun slot, but can fit in the SMG slot. On the other hand, a silenced Colt Car-15 fits fine in the gun slot. One of those isn't right

7) Break lights take a larger slot than I would expect

Cool I can't train or assign Malitia in B9, B10, or E13

10) when I first arrived in C-13 I found Carmen (I had already got the laptop from him in A9), when I talked to him he gave me a second laptop, and the game locked up.

11) The Tactical Tailer 3day and the Aruc still have the same big slots they always have. May be by design.

12) Throwing and Large Throwing knives don't fit in the Knife slot.

With the Exception of the subway traverse error, these are all minor nitpicks and haven't decreased my enjoyment. Keep up the good work.
Re: UC-1.13 Public Beta Discussion 1 (2009/10/29 to --/--/--)[message #264556] Fri, 08 October 2010 23:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Friendly Fire

 
Messages:74
Registered:January 2006
The case #10 happened to me also.
Re: UC-1.13 Public Beta Discussion 1 (2009/10/29 to --/--/--)[message #264572] Sat, 09 October 2010 00:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wil473

 
Messages:2840
Registered:September 2004
Location: Canada
1) That has been reported before, not sure if it is a game breaker. The only critical Key Card that I can think of, is the one that leads to the end of the game.

2) That's a new one. So basically you cannot go from one Calisto surface sector, to the Calisto underground subway station, and then go to the other Calisto surface sector?

3) There is no map south of the E13 Level -1 (Crepaton Lab). Unfourtunatly I think the kitchen is far enough south for the game to give you the option of travelling south.

4) There is a problem with a hostile civilian appearing on your first revisit to C13. Usually the civilian appears along the north end of the map (in the blind spot). Sometimes the civilian appears in the police station.

5) Yes, the "Canteen"/Belt Clip pocket, I'm treating as a hook/carbiner/binner for all sorts of stuff you should be able to hang on your belt.

6) What you are seeing is intentional, I've expanded on the weapon carrige pockets:
Default Gun Sling - Most weapons fit here, suppressors should not stop a weapon from fitting
(Old) Pistol Holster - Most autoloading pistols will fit here, but not with suppressor attached
Revolver Holster - Revolvers fit this one, as do some autoloading pistols
Combat Pistol Holster - Will fit autoloading pistols with suppressor attached
SBR Shoulder Rig - Will fit some Short Barrel Rifles and Submachine guns
Backpack (Heavy Weapon) - all backpacks will have one big slot, the top one, that may carry weapons set to the oversize size

7) Break Lights should fit SMG magazine slots to make up for no longer fitting the Small slot.

Cool Downgraded a few sectors back to uncontollable urban sectors (like in original Urban Chaos). this was done in hopes of streamlining gameplay.

9) Where is nine?

10) Does Carmen actually sucessfully hand over laptop (a second time) before the game crashes? This seems to be relatively new behaviour, Carmen trying to initiate the headhunting quest twice. Prevously the quest would start up (and recognize that it is already started), despite his forced appearance in Atremo. Now from the descriptions, it sounds like he is able to start the quest when you meet him in Atremo, but when his location becomes randomized, he tries to start the quest again causing the crash. Now if the game crashes in the act of handing over the laptop (usually with a missing item error in NPC inventory error), then there is a chance of a work around where I simpily give him two of each quest item. However if you actually get a second laptop, then someone has done someting to some NPC function in the .exe.

Remember that many of the apparent differences between Alrulco and Danubia campaigns amount to a form to trickery against the game engine that the Mod Squad managed to get away with. Someone working on v1.13 may upset whatever condiditions allowed UC to be more than the Alrulco campaign with a simple facelift. SEE ALSO: charges that v1.13 is only interested in the "vanilla" Alrulco campaign.

11) Tactical Tailor 3-Day is a Combat Pack so I didn't change its pockets. Please take another look at the top big pocket on the ARUC backpack, the graphical differences are very subtle.

12) That's a bug, will fix for next time unless I decide to change the default knife slot to one that allows you to hang face items on. Related to 5, I should actually also set the throwing knives to a size that can make use of the Belt Clip slot.

[Updated on: Sat, 09 October 2010 00:35] by Moderator



Re: UC-1.13 Public Beta Discussion 1 (2009/10/29 to --/--/--)[message #264574] Sat, 09 October 2010 01:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tag8833

 
Messages:35
Registered:September 2010
wil473

2) That's a new one. So basically you cannot go from one Calisto surface sector, to the Calisto underground subway station, and then go to the other Calisto surface sector?

That is how it works for me. I'll try taking the subway to callisto and see if I can exit to the surface and let you know. Also, the strategic map shows a blank square as if there is no subway sector if that matters at all.

wil473
4) There is a problem with a hostile civilian appearing on your first revisit to C13. Usually the civilian appears along the north end of the map (in the blind spot). Sometimes the civilian appears in the police station.

That was it. I search the whole map and never found him, but I went back for one more search, and he showed up right next to my malitia in the middle of the map.

wil473
7) Break Lights should fit SMG magazine slots to make up for no longer fitting the Small slot.

If you made two break lights fit one cargo pocket or two per smg mag slot it would make me slightly happier, but it might not mesh with your goals for the module.


wil473
9) Where is nine?

#9 was going to be the same as 7 except for throwing knives. I tend to do night ops, so I like most of my mercs to have 2 throwing knives and 2 break lights. That will get easier as I get better uniforms.


wil473
10) Does Carmen actually sucessfully hand over laptop (a second time) before the game crashes? This seems to be relatively new behaviour, Carmen trying to initiate the headhunting quest twice. Prevously the quest would start up (and recognize that it is already started), despite his forced appearance in Atremo. Now from the descriptions, it sounds like he is able to start the quest when you meet him in Atremo, but when his location becomes randomized, he tries to start the quest again causing the crash. Now if the game crashes in the act of handing over the laptop (usually with a missing item error in NPC inventory error), then there is a chance of a work around where I simpily give him two of each quest item. However if you actually get a second laptop, then someone has done someting to some NPC function in the .exe.

He actually gives me the 2nd laptop, and the game doesn't have an assertion fail, it just hangs.

wil473
11) Tactical Tailor 3-Day is a Combat Pack so I didn't change its pockets. Please take another look at the top big pocket on the ARUC backpack, the graphical differences are very subtle.

I see the graphic difference between the top pocket and the rest in the ARUC, but I haven't been able to find anything that fits in one, but not the other. Maybe some of the big sniper rifles that I haven't found yet.

Re: UC-1.13 Public Beta Discussion 1 (2009/10/29 to --/--/--)[message #264614] Sun, 10 October 2010 00:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Toneone

 
Messages:377
Registered:October 2008
Location: Germany
Quote:
Specific Triggers:
C6 - repurposed one of the scripted "seek-out-and-go-hostile" NPC slots to be Remington, the over eager "bent" cop that had the photographer under surveillance. If you approach the photographer in the bar, Remington will see you and trigger the Kingpin faction to go hostile. There are some new plot elements littering the floor too.


That was actually the thing which i liked most, or rather were i realized you did some things to smoothe the flow.
The Merc who walked into the bar was almost snuffed, total sucker punch moment
:crazy:

Quote:
Miranda/Documents Quest - it is implied that you are supposed to wipe out Kingpin's faction. This means you have to initiate the hostilities, causing a severe morale drop due to game mechanics.

Yeah, dealing with the reporter quest gave me serious morale fuckery in old UC.
After i realized, or rather was told, that you can use explosives i could solve it.
But i felt that the quest was not done proper, even more so after talking with the police guys.
I really wanted to shot em back in ye olde game..
Nice job so far!

Have you altered the flow of the Tixa thing also?
If i remember correctly it also had some dents in it.
-------

Quote:
4) There is a problem with a hostile civilian appearing on your first revisit to C13. Usually the civilian appears along the north end of the map (in the blind spot). Sometimes the civilian appears in the police station.


Also had this, but i can say its around since the old UC.
Maybe an excess guy who cant be placed initially?

Had posted a similiar problem way back in here, in where some gunrunners in D1 magically popped into existence next to me, after i finished the fight.
Seemed like excess guys due to there also beeing soldiers around.
If im not utterly wrong, there is a limit to how many guys can be around in a sector.

Quote:
5) Yes, the "Canteen"/Belt Clip pocket, I'm treating as a hook/carbiner/binner for all sorts of stuff you should be able to hang on your belt.


I do like that, but i also feel like a lot of gear has this slot and other items come a little short.

Quote:

7) Break Lights should fit SMG magazine slots to make up for no longer fitting the Small slot.


This kinda ties in with the previous one.
Not that i use breaklights that much but i was pretty surprised by them beeing so big.

In general i have a lot of thoughts about the LBE things you made for us, in relation to general loadouts.
But i cant properly put them to words right now, need some more playtime and look at late game stuff.

regards
Re: UC-1.13 Public Beta Discussion 1 (2009/10/29 to --/--/--)[message #264651] Sun, 10 October 2010 21:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wil473

 
Messages:2840
Registered:September 2004
Location: Canada
I'm not so sure there is more to the psychologist (Tixa) storyline/NPC's aside from some comedy. That and I'm not too sure how I could setup a trigger for a third hostile faction. In theory, without additional code work, ie. purely by editing maps and prof.dat/XML's, there can be 7 seperate hostile to the player factions, however in UC there is a lot of overlap to ensure things happen as they do.

Hicks - triggered by visiting them at night

Kingpin (faction but not scripted NPC's) - you or AI triggers hostility by treading on specific tiles.

Kingpin's assassins (Characters 140-145) - these are not bound to the kingpin faction, in "vanilla," but instead one each can be assigned to a different faction. A civilian faction will become hostile, after you encounter the character.

In Diedranna Lives! Kingpin's assassins are supposed to appear when you start the game. For some reason in DL-1.13 they appear a few hours after you land in Alrulco. Like "vanilla" they are not bound to any specific faction.

In Urban Chaos, Kingpin's assassins are used as an additional trigger to civilians set to the Hicks faction, so they will go hostile the first time you go down to the subway. The problem is I swapped the NPC in Port Kip subway with an unused NPC slot to free up the slot for Jack Remington, this actually makes it possible to go to Port Kip and not have a hostile subway encounter (as long as it is the first subway level you visit, and you have not otherwise triggered the Hicks faction). I am considering doing another NPC swap, one of the subways I think has two of the Kingpin assassin character slots in use.

Now if I knew more about scripting, then there may be other options for hostile factions in-game. Unfourtunatly I am only skilled at data entry and making do with what little skills I have elsewhere...


Glowsticks - I'm thinking they are relatively long items, approximately the size and shape of a SMG magazine, though I do see the point about being able to cram two of them into the SMG magazine pocket. The larger AR magazine pockets, which can take double SMG magazines, can fit two glowsticks. If I make them pistol magazine size, then you can cary them in the "Tiny" pockets.


If someone gets me a decent set of graphics for a carbiner/binner/hook, I'll setup mergers so that unused pocket slots in LBE's can be filled in with "belt clip" pockets. I'm still working on a base set of items for v3, and after the last reogranization, I've got space for these "upgraded" LBE's.


v3 News:
- Filled in some additional guns I felt were missing: AUG-A3 Carbine, and AUG-A3 9mm XS, both modified versions of Tbird94lx's original artwork in mainstream v1.13.
- Bit of a setback with reoganizing ItemSlotAssign.xml, turns out I can open it in MS Excel 2003, but it won't save. I finished manually rearranging all the slots to the new item ordering last night.
- I think I've figured out a way to do the multiple A.I.M. gear:
1) Urban Chaos gear
2) Item slots based on real "vanilla" item slots, I don't think they messed with the AIM inventory for Diedranna Lives! too much so this one will work in both "vanilla" and DL Alrulco campaigns.
3) Sidearm and carbines/SBR's (there's a reason I added so many of these recently). Each A.I.M. merc will have one of each plus some ammo.
4) PDW's and rifles. Each A.I.M merc will have a hi-end sidearm (usually a MP or PDW) and a full barrel length Assault Rifle or "carbine" Battle Rifle.

[Updated on: Sun, 10 October 2010 22:26] by Moderator



Re: UC-1.13 Public Beta Discussion 1 (2009/10/29 to --/--/--)[message #264652] Sun, 10 October 2010 22:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Toneone

 
Messages:377
Registered:October 2008
Location: Germany
Hey Wil,

just a short observation i made in the game so far.
Civillian factions like gunrunners and cops seem over armored to me at times.
Just right now i had a female cop take 4 point blank headshots from a tricked out m4a1(Ap ammo)
for a total of under 40 damage, she was just "poor".
Bodyshots came to a total of 20 something damage.

I observed this numerous times during the campaign and feel its very wrong, to me at least.
Soldiers fall after 2-3 shots to the body with the same gun, and they are soldiers!
Guys who should actually have fighting equipment as opposed to cops who should have mundane gear.
In the case of the gunrunners though i can understand it, they have good stuff on their hands.
Ocassionally cops dropped their vest

[Updated on: Sun, 10 October 2010 22:29] by Moderator

Re: UC-1.13 Public Beta Discussion 1 (2009/10/29 to --/--/--)[message #264654] Sun, 10 October 2010 22:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wil473

 
Messages:2840
Registered:September 2004
Location: Canada
Civilan C-18 treated EOD vests drops - this is a bug, to be fixed with UC-1.13 v3. I'm going to have to finally get around to actually flushing all items from in-map mercs. Before giving up on this idea for v2 I figured out a way; it involves loading the original Urban Chaos maps while in the "vanilla" Data folder. With the original Urban Chaos, hostile civ factions seemed a bit over armoured as well, but as I am planning on dropping the legacy map item assignments I might as well give them a more "realistic" loadout.

I am planning on releasing in the next few weeks, Combined Folding Stock System v3 (NAS), probably something specifically for dropping in over Tais' SCI. However, the initial UC-1.13 component will only be a slightly fixed up v2.75.

[Updated on: Sun, 10 October 2010 22:47] by Moderator



Re: UC-1.13 Public Beta Discussion 1 (2009/10/29 to --/--/--)[message #264656] Sun, 10 October 2010 23:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Toneone

 
Messages:377
Registered:October 2008
Location: Germany
Quote:
With the original Urban Chaos, hostile civ factions seemed a bit over armoured as well, but as I am planning on dropping the legacy map item assignments I might as well give them a more "realistic" loadout.


I would very much appreciate that.
Im fighting in Sheraton ATM and beeing stealthy is more or less impossible.
As it is, its more effective to beat cops with your bare hands than shooting them with a modern assault rifle.
Seems a bit silly^^

edit: I should mention that there are exceptions.
Meaning, there are cops who are not over armored and die like the soldiers.
Also, there is a C-18 coated EOD vest placed in one of the lockers of the Sheraton plant, might wanna erase that too.

regards

[Updated on: Mon, 11 October 2010 00:45] by Moderator

Re: UC-1.13 Public Beta Discussion 1 (2009/10/29 to --/--/--)[message #264662] Mon, 11 October 2010 00:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wil473

 
Messages:2840
Registered:September 2004
Location: Canada
I just looked at the amount of free LBE slots I have, and there is a potential for hundreds of new LBE's with the proposed Pack Biner addon plan.

1) Some existing LBE's will have Pack Biner's added.
2) If free slots allow, there will be a maximum of two pack biner upgrade levels allowed
3) Will add a new silhouette graphic for a canteen pouch. The graphics for some leg rigs indicate a pocket that the canteen fits into, so in theory you are gaining a new small pocket of sorts. Considering how I envison sizes of the canteen vs. glow sticks, this new pocket will be able to carry three or four glow sticks.

This still means 80 or so new LBE items (Item Index 1800 will be the pack biner, 1801 and onward the upgraded LBE's). Now it is just a question of the graphics.

EDIT: v3 Updates
- added the pack biner and modified LBE's. This includes some modified graphics, where I add few pixels to denote that 1 or 2 extra pack biners have been attached. I really should bug Starwalker about who did the graphics for the LBE's so I can credit them properly.
- partialy sorted out the "canteen" pocket. I think I've gone too far in that it seems like an extra medium pocket...
- added graphics for STAR-21 and Tavor-2, both are modified versions of the graphics from IoV. Research on these have resulting in me clearing the damaged by water tags to reflect IWI's claims of "real Over-the-Beach capability" However, the older Tavors will have integral optics, losing the RIS. Effectively they are now waterproof AUG's...
- now finally onto updating the mercstartinggear.xml, should have it done by end of long weekend.

EDIT2: forgot to mention, another change to the LBE pack biner addon, leg rigs only get one upgrade, vests and packs get two, except for the one pack that only has room for one

Map item bugs: I will be building UC-1.13 v3 on the original Urban Chaos maps, except for the few I have modified significantly for plot purposes, A9, C6, D5 and D6. As long as I get the initial 350 items to match original UC, there shouldn't be any weird items in boxes and lockers.

[Updated on: Mon, 11 October 2010 18:35] by Moderator



Re: UC-1.13 Public Beta Discussion 1 (2009/10/29 to --/--/--)[message #264776] Wed, 13 October 2010 14:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Toneone

 
Messages:377
Registered:October 2008
Location: Germany
Hey wil,

ive discovered a rather nasty bug.
My 3x5Po scopes get damaged when i shot my weapons, they also tend to fall of during auto/burst fire
if damaged enough.
Much like a certain barrel extender^^

The strangest thing though is, that when the scopes falls of, the attached laser stays in place...

its a mystery!
Re: UC-1.13 Public Beta Discussion 1 (2009/10/29 to --/--/--)[message #264791] Wed, 13 October 2010 17:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wil473

 
Messages:2840
Registered:September 2004
Location: Canada
That "bug" is actually and old one I thought/hoped had gone away. In Urban Chaos the PO 3x21P uses the same item index as the barrel extender, 310. Now a long time ago in v1.13, they setup items to become damaged & fall off "only" if they give a range bonus (like the barrel extender), however I am convinced that item index is also hard coded to take damage & fall off on firing. I remember reporting this, but I doubt any action will be taken, UC is the only mod that has something other than the barrel extender in that slot.

In older versions of the mod, PO 3x21P scopes found in the maps could not be used without a merger to transform them into the real PO 3x21P (under a different item index). For v2 I decided to make the PO 3x21P indestructible by clearing the tag for the scope, expecting the scope to never take damage (and fall off) from any source. I am guess something in the .exe is ignoring the XML in this regard. Sorry I became complacent when building v2...

The fix will have to be a two part solution:
1) setup a merger again so you are never attaching item 310. Also means that someone is not going to read the item description and complain about not being able to attach PO 3x21P's, and I'll have to patiently explain that they need to use a toolbox or crowbar on the item to get the real PO 3x21P (or tersely tell them to read the item description...) This is why I wanted to use item index 310...

2) when flushing the maps for v3, I'll have to replace all occurrences of item 310 with the new PO 3x21P

[Updated on: Wed, 13 October 2010 20:49] by Moderator



Re: UC-1.13 Public Beta Discussion 1 (2009/10/29 to --/--/--)[message #264803] Thu, 14 October 2010 00:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Faithless

 
Messages:441
Registered:October 2009
Location: The safe end of the barre...
I just wanted to confirm that the barrel extender id is a filthy little hardcoded bugger that will just reduce status and drop the item, no matter what you do.
Re: UC-1.13 Public Beta Discussion 1 (2009/10/29 to --/--/--)[message #264806] Thu, 14 October 2010 01:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Toneone

 
Messages:377
Registered:October 2008
Location: Germany
Quote:
I just wanted to confirm that the barrel extender id is a filthy little hardcoded bugger that will just reduce status and drop the item, no matter what you do.


Bugger....

Quote:

The fix will have to be a two part solution:
1) setup a merger again so you are never attaching item 310. Also means that someone is not going to read the item description and complain about not being able to attach PO 3x21P's, and I'll have to patiently explain that they need to use a toolbox or crowbar on the item to get the real PO 3x21P (or tersely tell them to read the item description...) This is why I wanted to use item index 310...

2) when flushing the maps for v3, I'll have to replace all occurrences of item 310 with the new PO 3x21P



Heh, yeah i guess there will be the occasional question.

Well ill just try to get some western guns supplied ASAP for the time beeing.
I reverted back to AK

[Updated on: Thu, 14 October 2010 15:03] by Moderator

Re: UC-1.13 Public Beta Discussion 1 (2009/10/29 to --/--/--)[message #264844] Thu, 14 October 2010 18:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wil473

 
Messages:2840
Registered:September 2004
Location: Canada
Double-checked the "usual" source for small arms information and imagery, and yes, the RG6 has a sling in one picture. Guess I'll cross it off the list of so-called "cumbersome" weapons. This leaves excessively large Anti-Material Rifles, Belt-Fed LMG/GPMG's, and the M202 FLASH.

Both revolver grenade launchers will be set to size 9 (carbine size).


I took a quick look at the armours, there is only a few points of difference between Commando and Striker protection values:

Vest - Protection / Coverage / Degration
Commando - 28 / 93 / 8
Striker - 29 / 95 / 11

I am actually more concerned about the Guardian Vest being so close to the Spectra vest in protection values.

Guardian - 28 / 70 / 15
Spectra - 29 / 85 / 13

There is no weight difference to account for the discreprency, but then again I decided to standardize all vest weights to 32 hg. I'll take a look at what everyone else is doing with the main sets of armour.

EDIT: Quick research report

Checked Starwalker's Data-1.13 stats, they are more or less the same as mine, including Guardian being relatively close to Spectra in protectiveness in-game. Now in real life, Spectra is reputed to be stronger, lighter and more flexible than Kevlar. Guardian Vest's in-game description mentions being made of kevlar. In-game description of Guardian Vest is that it is made of Kevlar, so this leaves the problem of how to balance in to accomodate gameplay and reality.

So this is the proposed changes to armour scheme:
- Leave protection and coverage alone for the base armours
- Up the weight of the Guardian armours. Also check to see how appropriate their AP penalties are, may be an increase for Guardian. If you want spectra-like protection out of a vest made of kevlar, the there will be other prices to pay
- Rexamine the cost of Spectra type vests, you may be seeing a coolness and price increase here.
- differentiate between Commando armours by coverage in increments of 5, so that Basic Commando has 5 coverge more than Spectra, next level takes it up to 95, and final level up to 100. At the same time, something has to be done about the Commando LBE pockets, because that is what I remember as being the big difference between the Commando Armours. The ASL and SL Commando Vests are in-game, but presently unobtainable due to not actually being different from the basic Commando in stats. I'll have to setup some kind of mergers for that.

[Updated on: Thu, 14 October 2010 19:25] by Moderator



Re: UC-1.13 Public Beta Discussion 1 (2009/10/29 to --/--/--)[message #264853] Thu, 14 October 2010 23:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Toneone

 
Messages:377
Registered:October 2008
Location: Germany
Quote:
Double-checked the "usual" source for small arms information and imagery, and yes, the RG6 has a sling in one picture. Guess I'll cross it off the list of so-called "cumbersome" weapons. This leaves excessively large Anti-Material Rifles, Belt-Fed LMG/GPMG's, and the M202 FLASH.

Both revolver grenade launchers will be set to size 9 (carbine size).


Yeah, im perfectly fine with this.
Though some things should be considered when you speak of "belt-fed lmg".
Not all of them are extra large. The SAW-like guns are large but definitely slingable.
The Ares Shrike would also fall into that size class, and some of the modern IAR

[Updated on: Thu, 14 October 2010 23:35] by Moderator

Re: UC-1.13 Public Beta Discussion 1 (2009/10/29 to --/--/--)[message #264863] Fri, 15 October 2010 07:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wil473

 
Messages:2840
Registered:September 2004
Location: Canada
The items selected for the "too-big-for-a-sling" were done so mostly by gut. So definitely I was looking for feedback on the selection, though not necessarily in artwork form...

I will draw the line at someone complaining that they cannot easily swap from the Steyr AMR to a pistol without AP cost (dropping the AMR or putting it back in a backpack). Note, I am not sure if the AMR is even still available in-game.

Guess what size I'll be making sure the mortars are too (well perhaps not the commando mortar).

All C-Mag IAR type weapons should be rifle size. If not, then its a bug.

The SAW's have a dual-feed system, so I can easily add a tag which shrinks the weapon to fit the sling when the backup/quick magazine feed is in use. I still like the general idea of a belt fed weapons being somewhat cumbersome.

Speaking of dual feed, the 10 rounds you get pre-loaded in any SAW's and FN Minimi's delivered to the airport are due to the dual feed.

The two twenty round 7.62x51mm magazines are a mistake. In all likelihood, you will also find these magazines overfilled to 200/20 in map placed items.

Same thing with the 5/10 .338Lapua magazines, UC only had 5 round magazines, in v1.13 they are all 10. I'll keep an eye out for these when I sweep the maps of items (v.3 is not going to be out anytime soon).

Commando changes (for UC-1.13v3) were relatively easy, however there will be a loss of function for the initial commando upgrade:

* Spectra/Dynamee Vest + Commando Upgrade = Commando Vest and Commando LBE
* Commando Vest + Commando Upgrade = Commando ASL/NCO Vest and Commando LBE Upgrade (which must be merged with Commando LBE to produce the Commando ASL/NCO LBE)
* Commando ASL/NCO Vest + Commando Upgrade = Commando Squad Leader and Commando LBE Upgrade

Only the Commando ASL/NCO LBE has a choice of upgrades:
* Commando LBE Upgrade (again) = Commando LBE - Squad Leader (former Commando Commander LBE)
* 40mm Grenade Panel = Commando LBE - Grenadier
* Medic LBE Upgrade (by-product of Medic Patch + Commando ASL/NCO Vest = Commando Medic Vest) = Commando LBE - Medic
* SAW Pouch = Commando LBE - LMG
* MP Holster = Commando LBE - SMG

Repeat, (in v3) you will not be able to upgrade the basic Commando LBE or the Commando LBE - Squad Leader with leg rig LBE's.

Also I've cut out some pockets from the basic Commando LBE in v3. The idea is: basic LBE = not many pockets; ASL/NCO LBE = the old Commando pockets; All other Commando LBE's more pockets

Commando armour shouldn't be appearing so quickly on enemy forces as I've upped the coolness from 8 to 10.

Read somewhere the real A.L.I.C.E. Field Pack (note I'm not calling it a Combat Pack) has a pocket specifically for medical supplies. I could take things further and convert the extra weapon sling into a entrenchment tool only slot. Size 14 is presently unused because I haven't thought of anything "special" enough to use it for (right now it is the dividing line between weapons and other items). Also, since I'm increasing pressure on the supply of Commando Upgrades (2 are used up before you get a marginal improvement over other LBE), and pushing back the appearance of enemy forces with this armour, the A.L.I.C.E. first aid slot should get more use.

EDIT: page 11 now, can a mod please advise if there is still a technical need to break off a thread at 10 pages?

[Updated on: Fri, 15 October 2010 07:34] by Moderator



Re: UC-1.13 Public Beta Discussion 1 (2009/10/29 to --/--/--)[message #264896] Fri, 15 October 2010 20:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Toneone

 
Messages:377
Registered:October 2008
Location: Germany
Quote:
The items selected for the "too-big-for-a-sling" were done so mostly by gut. So definitely I was looking for feedback on the selection, though not necessarily in artwork form...

Sometimes i fail at beeing funny^^

Quote:
I will draw the line at someone complaining that they cannot easily swap from the Steyr AMR to a pistol without AP cost


I support your decision to make some guns to big, i wanna see the guy who shoulders a GPMG without beeing hindered. Same goes for large sniper/AM rifles or hand-held artillery like that chinese thing, and the big mortar.

Quote:
The SAW's have a dual-feed system, so I can easily add a tag which shrinks the weapon to fit the sling when the backup/quick magazine feed is in use. I still like the general idea of a belt fed weapons being somewhat cumbersome.


What exactly does dual-feed do?
I never really toyed with the SAW cause i usally end up using hybrid guns for my lmg needs.
Though one thing to consider is, if youre not totally want this "belf-fed=big" to be a theme make the SAW and similar guns smaller.

This vid is ridiculous but it shows that the SAW is not as big as one would think.
Mebbe add a merger to modernize the 249 and make it smaller?

reeeeeeediculous!

Quote:
Commando changes (for UC-1.13v3) were relatively easy, however there will be a loss of function for the initial commando upgrade:


What you describe sounds solid to me, and leaves a lot of room for customizing which is always a good thing.
Upping the coolnes is a good way to go!
At progress 32 i have like 20 Commando Vests already, and only like 6 were made by me.

And in that regard the med slot for the ALICE does gain purpose again, but you might want to allow other items to be attached to the slot.
Like crepagen or crepaboost.

more will come later^^

regards
Re: UC-1.13 Public Beta Discussion 1 (2009/10/29 to --/--/--)[message #264917] Sat, 16 October 2010 01:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wil473

 
Messages:2840
Registered:September 2004
Location: Canada
Some belt-fed weapons have an option to feed from a box magazine in the event of an emergency. This is something I implemented with the mechanics behind the folding stock system (now enhanced with NAS technology).

Basically all belt fed weapons take a lot of AP's to reload. However with the FN Minimi and the FN M249 SAW PIP (the FN Minimi SPW does not have the option of being magazine fed), there is the "feed" attachment. Thanks to NAS, it has become a bit more easier to use, move the feed item to one slot and click twice (once to convert, second to attach) you get a quick reloading 30 round weapon, move it to the other slot and you have a slow to reload 200 round weapon. The conversion is AP free too.

Comparison M249 SAW PIP:

Belt feed (bottom slot) = 56 AP to reload from a 200 round belt, near impossible to reload from other sized "magazine" during a combat turn
Magazine feed (top slot) = 28 AP to reload from a 30 round magazine

These numbers I actually got from your savegame Hazmat, via cheat codes and a calculator. Ignore the EDB displayed AP cost, I confirmed a while ago it is not working for Reload AP modifiers. Without the "feed" item attached magazine capacity for these FN LMG's is 10.

The exclusion used for the first aid and medical slots prevents crepaboost and regen boost from fitting the pocket. Both regen and energy boost items are considered Misc items instead of medical.

v3 planning, I am going to do a push to get part one of v3 out soon. The old Folding Stock Test Mod is now called Folding Stock Alrulco (FSA). Once FSA is out, next will be DL-1.13FS v3, and then finally UC-1.13v3. The complete set of three mods and submods in one will be Combined Folding Stock System v3. All will officially be for New Attachment System, and likely for Tais SCI, despite myself not being sure of the circumstances of its existence. (Reality notwithstanding, I'm still going to think of the Beta-MP .exe as in "closed" testing untill I see a compiled version of it on the public SVN ready for install the hard way...) Hopefully CFSS v3 will be out before Headrock goes and makes the whole folding stock architecture obsolete with his proposed mechanism for making items change with a click or two (instead of merging as I've done).

This weekened I'll be closing down this thread in favour of a new one. Without any comments from a moderator about thread stability beyond ten pages, I'm going to play it safe and open up a new one when I have a free moment.

[Updated on: Sat, 16 October 2010 01:23] by Moderator



Re: UC-1.13 Public Beta Discussion 1 (2009/10/29 to --/--/--)[message #264919] Sat, 16 October 2010 01:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Toneone

 
Messages:377
Registered:October 2008
Location: Germany
Quote:
Basically all belt fed weapons take a lot of AP's to reload. However with the FN Minimi and the FN M249 SAW PIP (the FN Minimi SPW does not have the option of being magazine fed), there is the "feed" attachment. Thanks to NAS, it has become a bit more easier to use, move the feed item to one slot and click twice (once to convert, second to attach) you get a quick reloading 30 round weapon, move it to the other slot and you have a slow to reload 200 round weapon. The conversion is AP free too.


Awesome!
I totally failed to realize this while toying with the SAW.


Quote:

The exclusion used for the first aid and medical slots prevents crepaboost and regen boost from fitting the pocket. Both regen and energy boost items are considered Misc items instead of medical.


Bummer..

Quote:

This weekened I'll be closing down this thread in favour of a new one. Without any comments from a moderator about thread stability beyond ten pages, I'm going to play it safe and open up a new one when I have a free moment.


see ya Very Happy
Re: UC-1.13 Public Beta Discussion 1 (2009/10/29 to --/--/--)[message #264941] Sat, 16 October 2010 19:17 Go to previous message
Wil473

 
Messages:2840
Registered:September 2004
Location: Canada
New feedback thread HERE .

May I ask a moderator to please lock and unpin this thread.


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