Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » v1.13 Modding, Customising, Editing » v1.13 Modding, Customising, Editing » Changing Tilesets
Changing Tilesets[message #237080] Sun, 08 November 2009 15:27 Go to next message
smeagol

 
Messages:2710
Registered:June 2008
Location: Bremen, Germany
I guess this has been asked quite a few times, but I haven't been able to find any answers that are understandable for non-coders.

The Ja2tse is really complicated and there are crash issues in the mapeditor when changing or adding tilesets, so I guess it's rather complicated to add stuff to a certain tileset... (I have done it before by adding those sand bags to rooftops, but that was a long time ago and the instruction how to do that have disappeared from my PM folder :/).



What exactly would be necessary to add tiles to a tileset?


Example:

I'd like to have the wooden crates in the Tropical SAM tileset, but at the same time I don't want to delete//overwrite any tiles in that tile set (as that would cause all kinds of trouble with existing maps, I guess). Is that possible at all? And if so, what would I have to do?


Is there somewhere a tutorial how to {change//edit//add stuff to} a tileset???





Re: Changing Tilesets[message #237090] Sun, 08 November 2009 17:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
KEN C

 
Messages:253
Registered:May 2007
Location: Aberdeen Washington USA
Good luck! The people who understand JA2tse seem to think that it is a no brainer. the rest of us are left out in the cold. I have been asking for help for two years now and all I get is cryptic answers and off topic comments that hijack the thread.
If it's so goddamn easy then why is there no published information about how to use it. And why are .stis called files when they are actually folders containing many individual files? To me thats where the problem lies is sorting out the individual pictures inside a .sti.
Re: Changing Tilesets[message #237093] Sun, 08 November 2009 18:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smeagol

 
Messages:2710
Registered:June 2008
Location: Bremen, Germany
Totally agree there. If people expect to get good mods, then the necessary knowledge should be shared in a way that people without coding experience get the point. Most of the stuff I did so far is more or less self-taught, but the map editor and the xml editor work quite intuitive, so no big deal there... everything else needed for more indepth modding, however, is really cryptic.

Problems start, when certain things are missing in a tileset. As stated above, I'd really like to see wooden crates in the tropical tileset, walls on rooftop levels, wall decorations (like shop signs for example) in different tile sets...

Working with scripts, tilesets, speech files, etc. is really complicated. Adding quests, NPCs and such is way above my abilities at the moment, and that's unfortunate, as there are quite some things I could imagine to add...



Re: Changing Tilesets[message #237095] Sun, 08 November 2009 18:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
I have seen animated wall decorations, and animated tiles in scorpions multiplayer mod Fight For Freedom (FFF). Maybe you should try getting a hold of him.
Also, if I am not mistaken he is alos author to the Renegade Republik mod.
Re: Changing Tilesets[message #237098] Sun, 08 November 2009 19:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the scorpion

 
Messages:1839
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH
smeagol

Is there somewhere a tutorial how to {change//edit//add stuff to} a tileset???


Yes. http://www.jaggedalliance.de/ub/tutorials/tileset.shtml

while it's been there since 2002, it's still not wrong to read it now. :animread:


As to your example: i guess there's a redundant slot in TS 34. Ah yes, 88/ 90 or 89/91 are redundant, with some luck you don't get an overflow, so simply use these slots for drum_02.sti or whatever else you want to copy. Then check all maps of the same tileset if the redundant slots have both been used. Keep this in mind if you ever want to work with tilesets, always only use the same object slot if there are redundancies (there were many)

if slot 89/91 flow over, try again using slot 77 and furniture-type crates (like tose grey ones used in tileset 35, i_crates). Slot 77 might be less prone to flowing over. But neither should 88/90 nor 89/91, at least in my experience with most tilesets.



Alternativly, the obvious thing to do is to check out existing mods and see what has been done
There's no better way than that to get all the answers on a silver platter. And what goes beyond the things already done in other mods can't be expected to be documented anywhere, so it has to be aquired by oneself some way or other.
Re: Changing Tilesets[message #237104] Sun, 08 November 2009 19:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smeagol

 
Messages:2710
Registered:June 2008
Location: Bremen, Germany
Thanks for the reply Scorpion.

I'll have a llok at that tutorial. Smile


Re: Changing Tilesets[message #237115] Sun, 08 November 2009 20:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smeagol

 
Messages:2710
Registered:June 2008
Location: Bremen, Germany
Great... seemed to work. I replaced the tweed.sti's in terrain 1 with the wooden crates (when I replaced 88/90 the red cars don't show up anymore...). They show up in the editor and don't cause crashes. Seems to work so far.
Guess there's no way to add more to a specific tileset? As far as i can tell, there's nothing duplicated in the Tropical SAM tileset (not even under furniture). Everything only shows up once...


Re: Changing Tilesets[message #237118] Sun, 08 November 2009 21:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the scorpion

 
Messages:1839
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH
truck.sti and furn_6.sti are duplicates in vanilla ja2's TS 34. Wildfire may be a different story in case you were editing widlfire tilesets and didn't mention it.

You can bet that if there was a way to actually *add* new objects to tilesets by adding new slots to the tilesets, it would have been done. Minor stuff may be added to existing tiles by enlarging the corresponding .jsd and .sti files though. But that's another story.

The vast majority of vanilla tilesets have redundant objects, so there's usually quite a lot of room to add things. Also, you can amend an entirely new tileset and use that one. But that requires quite some copy-pasting of data. Some mods like renegade republic have like 70-something tilesets rather than the usual 50 or 60 (UB).
Re: Changing Tilesets[message #237126] Mon, 09 November 2009 00:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smeagol

 
Messages:2710
Registered:June 2008
Location: Bremen, Germany
Yes, I'm working with the WF tilesets. No duplicate tiles there, unfortunately... just had a look at the tileset from 1.13 and there are plenty of duplicates...

What editor is needed to view the .jsd files?


Re: Changing Tilesets[message #237136] Mon, 09 November 2009 01:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smeagol

 
Messages:2710
Registered:June 2008
Location: Bremen, Germany
Okay, the JSD is way too cryptic for me at the moment (and besides, the editor is in Russian...).

For the moment I think I'll stick to replacing complete sti's in the tilesets (that seems manageable...). I've already located all sectors that use the tileset in question. It's okay, at the moment only 3 sectors use the tileset although there'll be quite some work to do, I think it's quite manageable... ah well.


Re: Changing Tilesets[message #237205] Mon, 09 November 2009 16:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the scorpion

 
Messages:1839
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH
black dragon's jsd editor as well as more recent jsd editors basing on black dragons' are available in english IIRC.

IMHO important with jsd editors is the capability to copy-paste objects from one jsd to the other (espeically if you want to add more objects to an existing jsd). Fine tuning will then usually not be necessary, as you have a fine tuned jsd from one file already that just needs to be copied over.

As with wildfire having already used up the redundant slots, one option is always to sacrifice the tiles on drum_02's (or whatever else tile from TS 0) slot, so you don't need to copy any files. This method is both more elegant and less prone to errors than re-introducing a tile that's already in TS 0.
Re: Changing Tilesets[message #237207] Mon, 09 November 2009 16:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smeagol

 
Messages:2710
Registered:June 2008
Location: Bremen, Germany
the scorpion
As with wildfire having already used up the redundant slots, one option is always to sacrifice the tiles on drum_02's (or whatever else tile from TS 0) slot, so you don't need to copy any files. This method is both more elegant and less prone to errors than re-introducing a tile that's already in TS 0.


Sorry, I think I don't understand this.


drum_02 are the wooden crates, right?


What I find strange is, that certain tilesets only contain 2 objects (like the red cars for example), but others contain up to 16 objects. Wouldn't it be possible to enhance the size of a tileset with only two objects to contain some more objects (and still contain the original 2 objects)?


Re: Changing Tilesets[message #237216] Mon, 09 November 2009 17:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the scorpion

 
Messages:1839
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH
smeagol
the scorpion
As with wildfire having already used up the redundant slots, one option is always to sacrifice the tiles on drum_02's (or whatever else tile from TS 0) slot, so you don't need to copy any files. This method is both more elegant and less prone to errors than re-introducing a tile that's already in TS 0.


Sorry, I think I don't understand this.


drum_02 are the wooden crates, right?


What I find strange is, that certain tilesets only contain 2 objects (like the red cars for example), but others contain up to 16 objects. Wouldn't it be possible to enhance the size of a tileset with only two objects to contain some more objects (and still contain the original 2 objects)?


That paragraph above isn't really important, so no problem not yet understanding it. Some time working with ja2tse you'll see what i meant. These things are sometimes difficult to explain, especially within language limitations such as the ones i encounter when trying to write coherent english sentences Wink

drum_01 or drum_02, one of those... one of them is the crates, the other one is the drums. That was just concerning your example.


You're asking the right questions there. Yes it is a bloody waste of slots to have some tiles only contain one or two objects. And Yes these can be enlarged rather easily (copy-paste-merge of jsd and sti) however, there are some hardcoded limits. I'd have to look them up in detail. ja2005 has them externalised so there should be a list in the ja2005 download... bear with me...


uhh, that's a long list...

Bear in mind that ja2005 may have made some changes (especially where they use hundreds of SMITEM slots)
Also, i always had the feeling that there's a second limit, an overall limit for each tileset but as it looks like, the limit is defined for each slot...

[TILETYPE0]
name=TEXTURE1
frames=35

[TILETYPE1]
name=TEXTURE2
frames=35

[TILETYPE2]
name=TEXTURE3
frames=35

[TILETYPE3]
name=TEXTURE4
frames=35

[TILETYPE4]
name=TEXTURE5
frames=35

[TILETYPE5]
name=TEXTURE6
frames=37

[TILETYPE6]
name=TEXTURE7
frames=49

[TILETYPE7]
name=WATER1
frames=50

[TILETYPE8]
name=DEEP WATER
frames=37

[TILETYPE9]
name=FIRSTCLIFFHANG
frames=17

[TILETYPE10]
name=FIRSTCLIFF
frames=17

[TILETYPE11]
name=FIRSTCLIFFSHADOW
frames=17

[TILETYPE12]
name=OSTRUCT1
frames=12

[TILETYPE13]
name=OSTRUCT2
frames=12

[TILETYPE14]
name=OSTRUCT3
frames=12

[TILETYPE15]
name=OSTRUCT4
frames=12

[TILETYPE16]
name=OSTRUCT5
frames=12

[TILETYPE17]
name=OSTRUCT6
frames=12

[TILETYPE18]
name=OSTRUCT7
frames=12

[TILETYPE19]
name=OSTRUCT8
frames=12

[TILETYPE20]
name=OFSTRUCT1
frames=12

[TILETYPE21]
name=OFSTRUCT2
frames=12

[TILETYPE22]
name=PLACEHOLDER1
frames=2

[TILETYPE23]
name=PLACEHOLDER2
frames=2

[TILETYPE24]
name=SHADOW1
frames=12

[TILETYPE25]
name=SHADOW2
frames=12

[TILETYPE26]
name=SHADOW3
frames=12

[TILETYPE27]
name=SHADOW4
frames=12

[TILETYPE28]
name=SHADOW5
frames=12

[TILETYPE29]
name=SHADOW6
frames=12

[TILETYPE30]
name=SHADOW7
frames=12

[TILETYPE31]
name=SHADOW8
frames=12

[TILETYPE32]
name=FSHADOW1
frames=12

[TILETYPE33]
name=FSHADOW2
frames=12

[TILETYPE34]
name=PLACEHOLDER3
frames=2

[TILETYPE35]
name=PLACEHOLDER4
frames=2

[TILETYPE36]
name=WALL1
frames=65

[TILETYPE37]
name=WALL2
frames=65

[TILETYPE38]
name=WALL3
frames=65

[TILETYPE39]
name=WALL4
frames=65

[TILETYPE40]
name=DOOR1
frames=20

[TILETYPE41]
name=DOOR2
frames=20

[TILETYPE42]
name=DOOR3
frames=20

[TILETYPE43]
name=DOOR4
frames=20

[TILETYPE44]
name=DOORSH1
frames=20

[TILETYPE45]
name=DOORSH2
frames=20

[TILETYPE46]
name=DOORSH3
frames=20

[TILETYPE47]
name=DOORSH4
frames=20

[TILETYPE48]
name=SLANTFLATPEICE
frames=2

[TILETYPE49]
name=ANOTHERDEBRIS
frames=10

[TILETYPE50]
name=ROADPIECES
frames=400

[TILETYPE51]
name=WINDOW4
frames=2

[TILETYPE52]
name=DECORATIONS1
frames=10

[TILETYPE53]
name=DECORATIONS2
frames=10

[TILETYPE54]
name=DECORATIONS3
frames=10

[TILETYPE55]
name=DECORATIONS4
frames=10

[TILETYPE56]
name=WALLDECAL1
frames=10

[TILETYPE57]
name=WALLDECAL2
frames=10

[TILETYPE58]
name=WALLDECAL3
frames=10

[TILETYPE59]
name=WALLDECAL4
frames=10

[TILETYPE60]
name=FLOOR1
frames=8

[TILETYPE61]
name=FLOOR2
frames=8

[TILETYPE62]
name=FLOOR3
frames=8

[TILETYPE63]
name=FLOOR4
frames=8

[TILETYPE64]
name=ROOF1
frames=14

[TILETYPE65]
name=ROOF2
frames=14

[TILETYPE66]
name=ROOF3
frames=14

[TILETYPE67]
name=ROOF4
frames=14

[TILETYPE68]
name=SROOF1
frames=20

[TILETYPE69]
name=SROOF2
frames=20

[TILETYPE70]
name=ONROOF1
frames=12

[TILETYPE71]
name=ONROOF2
frames=12

[TILETYPE72]
name=MOCKF1
frames=1

[TILETYPE73]
name=ISTRUCT1
frames=24

[TILETYPE74]
name=ISTRUCT2
frames=24

[TILETYPE75]
name=ISTRUCT3
frames=24

[TILETYPE76]
name=ISTRUCT4
frames=24

[TILETYPE77]
name=FIRSTCISTRCUT
frames=24

[TILETYPE78]
name=FIRSTROAD
frames=35

[TILETYPE79]
name=ROCKS
frames=10

[TILETYPE80]
name=WOOD
frames=10

[TILETYPE81]
name=WEEDS
frames=10

[TILETYPE82]
name=GRASS
frames=10

[TILETYPE83]
name=SAND
frames=10

[TILETYPE84]
name=MISC
frames=10

[TILETYPE85]
name=ANIOSTRUCT
frames=20

[TILETYPE86]
name=FENCESTRUCT
frames=22

[TILETYPE87]
name=FENCESHADOW
frames=22

[TILETYPE88]
name=FIRSTVEHICLE
frames=12

[TILETYPE89]
name=SECONDVEHICLE
frames=12

[TILETYPE90]
name=FIRSTVEHICLESHADOW
frames=12

[TILETYPE91]
name=SECONDVEHICLESHADOW
frames=12

[TILETYPE92]
name=MISC2
frames=10

[TILETYPE93]
name=FIRSTDEBRISSTRUCT
frames=10

[TILETYPE94]
name=SECONDDEBRISSTRUCT
frames=10

[TILETYPE95]
name=FIRSTDEBRISSTRUCTSHADOW
frames=10

[TILETYPE96]
name=SECONDDEBRISSTRUCTSHADOW
frames=10

[TILETYPE97]
name=NINTHOSTRUCT
frames=12

[TILETYPE98]
name=TENTHOSTRUCT
frames=12

[TILETYPE99]
name=NINTHOSTRUCTSHADOW
frames=12

[TILETYPE100]
name=TENTHOSTRUCTSHADOW
frames=12

[TILETYPE101]
name=FIRSTEXPLODEDEBRIS
frames=40

[TILETYPE102]
name=SECONDEXPLODEDEBRIS
frames=40

[TILETYPE103]
name=FIRSTLARGEEXPLODEDEBRIS
frames=10

[TILETYPE104]
name=SECONDLARGEEXPLODEDEBRIS
frames=10

[TILETYPE105]
name=FIRSTLARGEEXPLODEDEBRISSHADOW
frames=10

[TILETYPE106]
name=SECONDLARGEEXPLODEDEBRISSHADOW
frames=10

[TILETYPE107]
name=FIFTHISTRUCT
frames=24

[TILETYPE108]
name=SIXTHISTRUCT
frames=24

[TILETYPE109]
name=SEVENTHISTRUCT
frames=24

[TILETYPE110]
name=EIGHTISTRUCT
frames=24

[TILETYPE111]
name=FIRSTHIGHROOF
frames=15

[TILETYPE112]
name=SECONDHIGHROOF
frames=15

[TILETYPE113]
name=WALLDECAL5
frames=10

[TILETYPE114]
name=WALLDECAL6
frames=10

[TILETYPE115]
name=WALLDECAL7
frames=10

[TILETYPE116]
name=WALLDECAL8
frames=10

[TILETYPE117]
name=HUMANBLOOD
frames=16

[TILETYPE118]
name=CREATUREBLOOD
frames=16

[TILETYPE119]
name=FIRSTSWITCHES
frames=21

[TILETYPE120]
name=REVEALEDSLANTROOF
frames=8

[TILETYPE121]
name=1stREVEALEDHIGHROOF
frames=11

[TILETYPE122]
name=2ndREVEALEDHIGHROOF
frames=11

[TILETYPE123]
name=GUNS
frames=60

[TILETYPE124]
name=ITEMS
frames=149

[TILETYPE125]
name=ITEMS2
frames=45

[TILETYPE126]
name=GLASSSHATTER
frames=20

[TILETYPE127]
name=ITEMS3
frames=16

[TILETYPE128]
name=BODYBLOW
frames=15

[TILETYPE129]
name=EXITTEXTURE
frames=35

[TILETYPE130]
name=FOOTPRINTS
frames=80

[TILETYPE131]
name=POINTERS
frames=24

[TILETYPE132]
name=POINTERS2
frames=8

[TILETYPE133]
name=POINTERS3
frames=3

[TILETYPE134]
name=GOODRUN
frames=11

[TILETYPE135]
name=GOODWALK
frames=11

[TILETYPE136]
name=GOODSWAT
frames=11

[TILETYPE137]
name=GOODSCOOT
frames=11

[TILETYPE138]
name=CONFIRMMOVE
frames=11

[TILETYPE139]
name=VEHICLEMOVE
frames=10

[TILETYPE140]
name=ACTIONTWO
frames=11

[TILETYPE141]
name=BADMARKER
frames=11

[TILETYPE142]
name=GRING
frames=10

[TILETYPE143]
name=ROTATINGKEY
frames=8

[TILETYPE144]
name=SELRING
frames=10

[TILETYPE145]
name=SPECIAL
frames=6

[TILETYPE146]
name=BULLET
frames=2

[TILETYPE147]
name=MISS1
frames=5

[TILETYPE148]
name=MISS2
frames=5

[TILETYPE149]
name=MISS3
frames=14

[TILETYPE150]
name=WIREFRAME
frames=15

[TILETYPE151]
name=ITEMS4
frames=12

[TILETYPE152]
name=ITEMS5
frames=12

[TILETYPE153]
name=ITEMS6
frames=12

[TILETYPE154]
name=ITEMS7
frames=12

[TILETYPE155]
name=ITEMS8
frames=12

[TILETYPE156]
name=ITEMS9
frames=12

[TILETYPE157]
name=ITEMS10
frames=12

[TILETYPE158]
name=ITEMS11
frames=12

[TILETYPE159]
name=ITEMS12
frames=12

[TILETYPE160]
name=ITEMS13
frames=12

[TILETYPE161]
name=ITEMS14
frames=12

[TILETYPE162]
name=ITEMS15
frames=12

[TILETYPE163]
name=ITEMS16
frames=12

[TILETYPE164]
name=ITEMS17
frames=12

[TILETYPE165]
name=ITEMS18
frames=12

[TILETYPE166]
name=ITEMS19
frames=12

[TILETYPE167]
name=ITEMS20
frames=12

[TILETYPE168]
name=ITEMS21
frames=12

[TILETYPE169]
name=ITEMS22
frames=12

[TILETYPE170]
name=ITEMS23
frames=12

[TILETYPE171]
name=ITEMS24
frames=12

[TILETYPE172]
name=ITEMS25
frames=12

[TILETYPE173]
name=ITEMS26
frames=12

[TILETYPE174]
name=ITEMS27
frames=12

[TILETYPE175]
name=ITEMS28
frames=12

[TILETYPE176]
name=ITEMS29
frames=12

[TILETYPE177]
name=ITEMS30
frames=12

[TILETYPE178]
name=ITEMS31
frames=12

[TILETYPE179]
name=ITEMS32
frames=12

[TILETYPE180]
name=ITEMS33
frames=12

[TILETYPE181]
name=ITEMS34
frames=12

[TILETYPE182]
name=ITEMS35
frames=12

[TILETYPE183]
name=ITEMS36
frames=12

[TILETYPE184]
name=ITEMS37
frames=12

[TILETYPE185]
name=ITEMS38
frames=12

[TILETYPE186]
name=ITEMS39
frames=12

[TILETYPE187]
name=ITEMS40
frames=12

[TILETYPE188]
name=ITEMS41
frames=12

[TILETYPE189]
name=ITEMS42
frames=12

[TILETYPE190]
name=ITEMS43
frames=12

[TILETYPE191]
name=ITEMS44
frames=12

[TILETYPE192]
name=ITEMS45
frames=12

[TILETYPE193]
name=ITEMS46
frames=12

[TILETYPE194]
name=ITEMS47
frames=12

[TILETYPE195]
name=ITEMS48
frames=12

[TILETYPE196]
name=ITEMS49
frames=12

[TILETYPE197]
name=ITEMS50
frames=12

[TILETYPE198]
name=ITEMS51
frames=12

[TILETYPE199]
name=ITEMS52
frames=12

[TILETYPE200]
name=ITEMS53
frames=12

[TILETYPE201]
name=ITEMS54
frames=12

[TILETYPE202]
name=ITEMS55
frames=12

[TILETYPE203]
name=ITEMS56
frames=12

[TILETYPE204]
name=ITEMS57
frames=12

[TILETYPE205]
name=ITEMS58
frames=12

[TILETYPE206]
name=ITEMS59
frames=12

[TILETYPE207]
name=ITEMS60
frames=12

[TILETYPE208]
name=ITEMS61
frames=12

[TILETYPE209]
name=ITEMS62
frames=12

[TILETYPE210]
name=ITEMS63
frames=12

So if you look at slot 88 or 89, there should be, by default, space for 12 objects, so you could add 10 more objects to orange trucks without an overflow. Of course you can easily guess that externalizing this limit as in ja2005 means you can stuff seemingly unlimited amounts of items in one tileset, however, as they have to be in the same .jsd and the same .sti, there are limitations of jsd type and palette colours.
Re: Changing Tilesets[message #237217] Mon, 09 November 2009 18:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smeagol

 
Messages:2710
Registered:June 2008
Location: Bremen, Germany
Thanks again. This seems to be a good starting point to increase versatility on existing tilesets.

I just made a list what tilesets are currently used in the WF mod, and in fact one tile set is completely unused and one that is used by one sector doesn't really differ too much from another tileset (the swamp 1 and swamp baretrees differ in exactly 3 pics for trees, for what I can tell...).

So basically there are 2 completely unused tilesets at the moment (not counting the Demo Basement and the Demo Tileset ones, but the later seems to be buggy anyways, as the map editor won't load it...).


I'll start with rather small changes and will see how they work out (replacing one of the redundant wall decoration tilesets in Tropical 1 seems like a good start).



Re: Changing Tilesets[message #237223] Mon, 09 November 2009 18:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smeagol

 
Messages:2710
Registered:June 2008
Location: Bremen, Germany
Yet another question:

In the specific tilesetfolders (for example tilesets\4 for the Tropical 1 tileset) there's another sub-folder "T". What's the deal with that T folder?

When I copy a tileset to the folder 4, do I also need to copy the file to T?


Example: I just changed the walldecal7 (which in the original file contained a duplicated row of pics) to W_dec09 (shop signs). And copied the W_dec09.sti and .jsd file to tilesets\4. In the editor that seems to work just fine.


When I want to make a map-update, it should be enough to include the ja2set.dat in the binarydata folder and the additional files (i.e. the .sti and .jsd files that I've added to the tileset) to the corresponding tileset folder, right?


Re: Changing Tilesets[message #237226] Mon, 09 November 2009 19:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the scorpion

 
Messages:1839
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH
if you look at existing "t" folders in the .slf's, they contain smaller copies of the tiles and are used to generate radarmaps for example. If you plan to update radarmaps as well, you better copy the smaller files with identical name as your respective sti into the "t" folder, otherwise, you'll get some funky-lookin objects on the radarmaps.

Ah, maybe not only radarmaps... maybe some overview functions or other stuff also use these files... but they're not strictly needed, e.g. the game won't crash if they're missing.



The editor tends to be a good indicator of the full game. Normally, what you see there is what you get in the game, too.

about your last question: ja2set.dat, tilesets, maps (if you made any changes), radarmaps (if you want to/ made changes) but i guess you already figured that by now Smile

small hint: 1.13 no longer explicitly mentions the lack of a specific tile. Nowadays you get a generic assertion failure message where in the past, the game would have told you what tile is missing (upon crashing). So if you get a generic assertion failure message when trying to load a map, there might be a tile missing or a similar error.

Re: Changing Tilesets[message #237227] Mon, 09 November 2009 19:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smeagol

 
Messages:2710
Registered:June 2008
Location: Bremen, Germany
the scorpion
if you look at existing "t" folders in the .slf's, they contain smaller copies of the tiles and are used to generate radarmaps for example. If you plan to update radarmaps as well, you better copy the smaller files with identical name as your respective sti into the "t" folder, otherwise, you'll get some funky-lookin objects on the radarmaps.



Yes, makes sense... haven't thought about the radarmaps.


Quote:
about your last question: ja2set.dat, tilesets, maps (if you made any changes), radarmaps (if you want to/ made changes) but i guess you already figured that by now Smile


yeah, just wanted to make sure I didn't miss any obscure file. ^^


Quote:
small hint: 1.13 no longer explicitly mentions the lack of a specific tile. Nowadays you get a generic assertion failure message where in the past, the game would have told you what tile is missing (upon crashing). So if you get a generic assertion failure message when trying to load a map, there might be a tile missing or a similar error.


Okay, guess that's what crashes the demo tileset then.


What exactly is the name of that JSD editor you mentioned earlier?




Re: Changing Tilesets[message #237281] Tue, 10 November 2009 09:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Starwalker

 
Messages:768
Registered:October 2005
Location: Hannover, Germany
smeagol
Quote:
small hint: 1.13 no longer explicitly mentions the lack of a specific tile. Nowadays you get a generic assertion failure message where in the past, the game would have told you what tile is missing (upon crashing). So if you get a generic assertion failure message when trying to load a map, there might be a tile missing or a similar error.


Okay, guess that's what crashes the demo tileset then.

With Oldnooob's maps and the 3118-exe of 1.13, I still get the message that a specific tile/STI is missing, when it fails to load the map and then crashes. The maps are A7 and B3 in this case, and AFAIK use the same tileset.


Re: Changing Tilesets[message #238591] Tue, 24 November 2009 16:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Will Gates

 
Messages:1030
Registered:September 2006
Location: Far far away.
Oldnoob you old rascal you asked for and received help... it's always a question of what you can do without. Wood crates are an external shadowed item... you don't need all those types of grass in the junk & barrels section do you? No, there wasn't so hard was it.

Re: Changing Tilesets[message #238974] Sun, 29 November 2009 15:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BirdFlu

 
Messages:445
Registered:September 2007
Location: Lampukistan
Some of you may have noticed the file "Ja2Set.dat.xml" that is created in you user profile directory and wondered what can be done with it. Well, not much, until now. While it was just a different representation of the file ja2set.dat before, with the following files

ja2v113_TST.7z - 7.4 Mb
MapEditor_TST.7z - 8.7 Mb

this file is used to fill the internal datastructures. As long as the XML file exists, it is used instead of the DAT file. Otherwise the DAT file is read and used to recreate the XML file, which will be used on next game start again.

As i changed only the initializing of the tileset datastructures, but not their structure, there still may be some restrictions in the code that lead to a crash if you modify the XML file too much. So, either the XML file has to consider these restrictions or the restrictions itself should be relaxed.

Re: Changing Tilesets[message #238975] Sun, 29 November 2009 15:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the scorpion

 
Messages:1839
Registered:September 2004
Location: CH
BirdFlu
Some of you may have noticed the file "Ja2Set.dat.xml" that is created in you user profile directory and wondered what can be done with it. Well, not much, until now. While it was just a different representation of the file ja2set.dat before, with the following files

ja2v113_TST.7z - 7.4 Mb
MapEditor_TST.7z - 8.7 Mb

this file is used to fill the internal datastructures. As long as the XML file exists, it is used instead of the DAT file. Otherwise the DAT file is read and used to recreate the XML file, which will be used on next game start again.


If i understand this right, this may just speed up the process of managing and integrating large custom tilesets from one mod to another. Back when we absorbed UC's tilesets into RR, that would have been very handy just to copy-paste a part of an xml rather than try to copy parts of ja2set.dat using ja2tse.
I hope somebody can give this due testing as i'm currently sticking with an ancient editor version Smile

BirdFlu

So, either the XML file has to consider these restrictions or the restrictions itself should be relaxed.


there's certainly a few restrictions that definitely should be relaxed. If you refer to my above posting of the hardcoded number of possible objects per tile slot and their externalisation in ja2005, that's the prime example. But this may be slightly beyond the scope of your xml, i don't know.
(on a related note, ja2005 also removed the tile-tilesets hardcode so that an object in tileset 20 for example could be referenced from tileset 2 (for example) which meant no need to duplicate tiles all over the place, no need to extract existing tiles to re-use them etc.
Maybe you can assess such an idea also within the scope and framework of what you've already achieved with ja2.set.xml

So i could use the currently generated file and then edit it and when i use it with your exe/ editor, the changes would apply... very, very useful stuff here if i understand that correctly :ok:

*edit*

My download of your exe didn't work. It should have been a few megs (4.7 or so?) but it only downloaded a few kilobytes. Will try again later, hopefully it works for others

[Updated on: Sun, 29 November 2009 16:37] by Moderator

Re: Changing Tilesets[message #238978] Sun, 29 November 2009 16:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BirdFlu

 
Messages:445
Registered:September 2007
Location: Lampukistan
the scorpion

So i could use the currently generated file and then edit it and when i use it with your exe/ editor, the changes would apply... very, very useful stuff here if i understand that correctly :ok:

that's the plan

Re: Changing Tilesets[message #238979] Sun, 29 November 2009 16:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
KEN C

 
Messages:253
Registered:May 2007
Location: Aberdeen Washington USA
Birdflu, are you saying that I can assemble a data\tileset of my own and and your ja2set.dat.xml will ust it without requiring a set.dat?

your download site is a pain in the butt. maybe try esnips or mediafire?

[Updated on: Sun, 29 November 2009 16:50] by Moderator

Re: Changing Tilesets[message #238992] Sun, 29 November 2009 19:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BirdFlu

 
Messages:445
Registered:September 2007
Location: Lampukistan
OLDNOOOB
Birdflu, are you saying that I can assemble a data\tileset of my own and and your ja2set.dat.xml will ust it without requiring a set.dat?

I hope that it works. I didn't really have the time to test it. It works for current tilesets, but i don't know how well it will work with newly added ones.

OLDNOOOB
your download site is a pain in the butt. maybe try esnips or mediafire?

It works well enough for me. Then, others complain that esnips doesn't work for them. Maybe i should use both.

edit:

ja2v113_TST
MapEditor_TST

[Updated on: Sun, 29 November 2009 20:05] by Moderator


Re: Changing Tilesets[message #249543] Sat, 17 April 2010 12:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BirdFlu

 
Messages:445
Registered:September 2007
Location: Lampukistan
Here is a new version of the game + editor.
What it does is:
1) reads the tilesets definition from Ja2Set.dat.xml
2) reads structures from XML files (previously JSD)
3) supports 24/32-bit PNG images for BigItems
4) reads strings from XML files

1) reading the tileset definition from an XML file is disabled by default. To activate it you have to set USE_XML_TILESETS to true in ja2.ini. The XML file is created automatically when it doesn't exist.

2) when you set USE_XML_STRUCTURES to true in ja2.ini, the game tries to load filename.xml instead filename.jsd. One restriction is that sometimes the game looks for the existence of JSD file vefore loading it. So, if you create a new XML structure, it may not work unless you also create a (emtpy) jsd file too. To convert the existing JSD files to XML files you need the ja2export.exe program, that is also in the file you just downloaded.

3) BigItems are separate STI images, MediumItems are packed into multiimage STI files. When you set USE_PNG_ITEM_IMAGES to true in ja2.ini you will be able to use PNG files. MediumItems are then separated, just like the BigItems and they have to be in the directory "Interface\". That is, items from mdguns.sti go into "Interface\mdguns\*.png", from mdp1items.sti into "Interface\mdp1items\*.png" etc. MediumItems have to be paletted 8bpp images.

BigItems can be 8bpp or 24bpp or 32bpp PNG images and have to be storen in "BigItems\*.png". To convert the sti files to png files you can/have to use the ja2export.exe program.

4) Many dialogue lines or other strings in the game are stored in EDT files or directly in the code. You can export and use these strings by setting USE_XML_STRINGS to true in ja2.ini. With this option set, the XML files will be read but not written. To create the XML files you also have to set EXPORT_STRINGS to true in ja2.ini. For now only the strings on the AIM website are actually used in the game, although many more are written into the XML files.

Ja2export.exe is a command line proram, so not everyone will exactly like it, but you can create a batch file that will make the life a little bit easier for you. Lets say you put "ja2export.exe" into the same directory as "ja2.exe". Then you create in that directory a new text file and name it "ja2export.bat".

In this file you write
ja2export.exe

If you double-click on the ja2export.bat file a console will pop up and close immidiately. To make it stay you need to add this to the batch file
cmd /k ja2export.exe

Now the simple call of the program doesn't do anything besides printing the help/usage message. I hope that the help messsages are understandable, so i will not explain everything in detail. There are four commands that the program understands, STI, SLF, PNG and HELP. You can print the help messages for these commands by adding the follwing to ja2export.bat (or just enter it in the console now that it is open)
cmd /k ja2export.exe help sti
cmd /k ja2export.exe help jsd
cmd /k ja2export.exe help slf

- or- 

ja2export.exe help sti
ja2export.exe help jsd
ja2export.exe help slf

Here is an example how to convert the jsd files in Tilesets.slf
ja2export.exe jsd -lib Data\Tilesets.slf *\*.jsd -create_dst output_xml\.

Here is an example jow to convert the sti file BigItems to png files
// paletted 8bpp images
ja2export.exe sti -onepng Data\BigItems\*.sti Data\BigItems\.

// 32bpp rgba images
ja2export.exe sti -onepng -rgba Data\BigItems\*.sti Data\BigItems\.


EDIT: btw, this exe is based on the most recent version from the MP/Developer branch. In order to start it, you will need a couple of extra files. You can get them from here : https://81.169.133.124/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/JA2%201.13%20MP/GameDir/, or just check out the latest SVN revision of the MP branch.

EDIT2: here a the necessary files in one download http://www.mediafire.com/file/gg4xyzejntt/ja2_jsd_GameDir.7z

[Updated on: Sat, 17 April 2010 15:29] by Moderator


Re: Changing Tilesets[message #249546] Sat, 17 April 2010 13:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Faithless

 
Messages:442
Registered:October 2009
Location: The safe end of the barre...
Is that as good news as I think it is?

Can we finally easily change tilesets of, for example, bamboo?
Re: Changing Tilesets[message #249548] Sat, 17 April 2010 15:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BirdFlu

 
Messages:445
Registered:September 2007
Location: Lampukistan
You can at least try to change them. If it works, fine, if it doesn't, it can be fixed. If no one tries, then what's the point in all of this.

Re: Changing Tilesets[message #260831] Sat, 28 August 2010 07:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SharkD

 
Messages:358
Registered:July 2003
I created a copy of the manual on the wiki:

http://ja2v113.pbworks.com/Map-editor-manual

Those of you who've learned something by reading this thread, please update it with the additional information.
Re: Changing Tilesets[message #263487] Fri, 24 September 2010 16:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smeagol

 
Messages:2710
Registered:June 2008
Location: Bremen, Germany
A new idea how to maybe make tilesets more versatile:


I don't how difficult it would be, or if it would be more work than one big tileset... anyways... my idea is the following:


Maps load one tileset when they are entered, the one defined for the specific map in the map editor. This of course means, that only objects in that specific tileset will ever show up in a given map. For example: A tileset for a map (like the tileset used for Drassen Airport) has the wirefence as the only available fence. But, due to big maps, it is entirely possible, to also put a small farm in the map. This of course would need a different fence...

Solution:
Instead of only having one tileset at a given time, have two different ones.

So, in the map editor you would basically set two different tilesets the map can use (which would increase the number of available objects by at least 50% for any given map).

This of course also would require the game to know the data it has to load when a sector is entered.

Don't know if this is possible at all or if it would be easier to just make one big tileset with everything in it. Anyways... if the community wants to see big maps in the future, something has to be done about tilesets. ATM it is basically just a waste of time to even try to build a good big map, because the tileset limitations still stink.


Re: Changing Tilesets[message #263488] Fri, 24 September 2010 16:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Will Gates

 
Messages:1030
Registered:September 2006
Location: Far far away.
You have to be brave and edit Generic 0 first. It's so full of pointless duplicates it's a crying shame. Doing that affects all others for starters. Plus you only need 3 types of flat roof per set which lets you have 3 types of pitched roof per set; makes any town map look more varied. A super big set with all just isn't easily acheivable imho. The original guys even had to pull back from what they were doing (each set was meant to have twice as many tree types available but it didn't work because it went over the paragraph limit per sub section).

Re: Changing Tilesets[message #263490] Fri, 24 September 2010 16:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smeagol

 
Messages:2710
Registered:June 2008
Location: Bremen, Germany
Will Gates
You have to be brave and edit Generic 0 first. It's so full of pointless duplicates it's a crying shame. Doing that affects all others for starters. Plus you only need 3 types of flat roof per set which lets you have 3 types of pitched roof per set; makes any town map look more varied. A super big set with all just isn't easily acheivable imho. The original guys even had to pull back from what they were doing (each set was meant to have twice as many tree types available but it didn't work because it went over the paragraph limit per sub section).



I'm afraid that modifying the gerneric 0 will probably cause even more problems as it would solve.

Each and every map would have to be checked for miss placed stuff.



I agree that the one big tileset is not the best solution as it probably would also screw up a lot of things.

Thus my idea, to teach the game and the editor to load more than one tileset for a map.

Would probably still be hard to code, but as stated before: Tilesets need a serious overhaul, otherwise mapping big maps won't be happening at all.


Re: Changing Tilesets[message #263500] Fri, 24 September 2010 17:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Will Gates

 
Messages:1030
Registered:September 2006
Location: Far far away.
Not only "brave" but also prepared for some hard work. I've already been through that process on a mod I'm working on. Yes it does mean you have to load and meticulously check all 262 maps or so and also re-write all other tilesets to reflect changes to Zero before you even begin making new bespoke changes to sets beyond zero. Almost a year later I'm still finding the odd misplaced item so it's by no means perfect but it does lift what you can do by a significant percentage and is therefore worth it if you have the time & patience.

Re: Changing Tilesets[message #268511] Sat, 18 December 2010 03:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hawkeye

 
Messages:1839
Registered:October 2005
Location: Australia
Hey guys I'm also trying to get a better understanding of the tileset system and just wanting to understand the basics for now, with the intention of perhaps adding or replacing some existing static vehicle graphics in the new English translation of Vengeance. Ideally I'd like to add new graphics rather than overwrite old stuff.

I noticed Scorpion's link to an old post on Basis, but does anyone have a similar collection of information in English?


Re: Changing Tilesets[message #268822] Thu, 23 December 2010 05:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hawkeye

 
Messages:1839
Registered:October 2005
Location: Australia
Hey Smeagol, perhaps you can help me, in fact I get the feeling you're my only hope! :trooper: :bluesuspect: :trooper:

I have decided to try and decipher the German doc that Scorpion sent the link to from Basis, and get a translation to English, while personally experimenting with the whole Tileset shebang. I am Making very slow progress, but still would like to confirm some things.

With the Tilesets you have GENERIC and then for me with Vengeance a further 48 sets. Now am I understanding correctly that the GENERIC 00 set, is the main Global set? while the other 49 are variants that use 00 as a base and just make changes to that set with their own local selected Sti's?

I also heard others talking of slots within the tileset, are slots the amount of tiles in the right frame of this window? in Vengeance's case it has 150 slots available, as pictured below?

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa9/collector_hawkes/JA_Slots150.gif


Re: Changing Tilesets[message #268843] Thu, 23 December 2010 12:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smeagol

 
Messages:2710
Registered:June 2008
Location: Bremen, Germany
to be honest, I don't have too much knowledge about meddling with tilesets. I once tried and even managed to set up the roofbags, but that's about it.


One more reason the tilesets need to get reworked is to make it easier moddable.


Re: Changing Tilesets[message #268863] Thu, 23 December 2010 23:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kazuya

 
Messages:211
Registered:January 2009
smeagol
to be honest, I don't have too much knowledge about meddling with tilesets. I once tried and even managed to set up the roofbags, but that's about it.


One more reason the tilesets need to get reworked is to make it easier moddable.

I second that. I have ripped the entire tileset from fallout tactics, but after getting only a a few tiles to work after painful sessions of "change-and-start-JA2-to-see-how-it-turned-out", I hesitate to go on.
Re: Changing Tilesets[message #268881] Fri, 24 December 2010 03:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hawkeye

 
Messages:1839
Registered:October 2005
Location: Australia
Damn, I wish Scorpion was still here.

Things are starting to sink in a bit better with me, but it makes sense to have things confirmed. My biggest worry is hitting the limits of how many of these the game can handle, and I've heard that creepy term 'overflow' a bit. Vengeance however seems to have a fair bit of room to work in, so hopefully things won't come to that. At the moment the intention is to just add a few new token props and see how it goes. I was hoping you'd be able to clear up some of the terminology you were using with Scorpion on here previously Smeagol, surely someone out there knows more?


http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa9/collector_hawkes/Carswithcorrectcollision.jpg
So far I have managed to add a new test vehicle in game, with correct working collision, this is new test art (so ignore dodgy perspective, art style, non shadows etc. of the bright coloured cars) in an extra frame of an existing Sti, there was plenty of room in the palette, so came out quite nice. The JSD shape part has probably been the biggest hurdle, but hopefully one that's now overcome if not 100% understood.

The whole thing's been very demanding, but I've been taking notes as I go along so will post something up when I'm feeling more confident.


Re: Changing Tilesets[message #353589 is a reply to message #268881] Sun, 27 May 2018 04:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hawkeye

 
Messages:1839
Registered:October 2005
Location: Australia
This is an old, but still relevant thread, I'll post my link to my own tileset editing guidelines thread below which was put together after some trial and error and the instructions previously featured at JA2 Basis in German.

http://thepit.ja-galaxy-forum.com/index.php?t=msg&th=17774&goto=285585&#msg_285585


Re: Changing Tilesets[message #353591 is a reply to message #353589] Sun, 27 May 2018 13:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
townltu

 
Messages:279
Registered:December 2017
Location: here
Thanks for remembering me what info i was searching for, a couple of days ago,
and last not least pointing out where to find it! ;)
(i literally must have already seen the german tut a few times, trying to understand it,
but that was a looong time ago and before the contact with 3D stuff)


Some comments & questions

The 2 different .jss files in \tilesets(each in 2 instances)contain only plain text and eols,
i guess they not used at all and only remnants which survived the cleanup because:

The .jss files appear to relate to sti files, based on their content:
R-KEY.sti contains 8 pics of a key which are most likely intended to represent a rotating key,
so the text in R-KEY.jss supports the assumption. (flags animated; reference to 8 frames)
and the question arises where is the rotaing key in game,
respectively has anybody tried to place R-Key.sti on a map and what is the result in game/editor,
either with correcct r-key.jss residing in tilesets.slf,
and 2 copies of r-key.jss with changed values or simply empty, placed into \tilesets\0 and ~\0\0?

Cliff.jss has entries which appear to mofify offsets for pics in cliff.sti,
but i could not see any differenes in screenshots of grumm cliffs
although one instance used a cliff.jss that has most values drastically changed.



However, some thoughts on "can have only 1 type of fence on a specific map" limitation.
It probably refers to: "can only have one terrain type on a map that allows interaction with item that has wirecutters flag
and transforms into smth else than rubble"
(there is also physical damage from explosion ?etc? but i guess thats another thing as many terrain tiles can be desrtroyed)
If .sti is just a pic with no impact on terrain/structure,
we could fill all plain_ground .sti files of a sector with pics of different fences,
but the new fences should be no obtacle at all as long as the related .jsd files stay untouched.

If the assumption is correct, the 1Fence limitation is either related to the .jsd files,
i which case its a mattter of adjusting jsd and/or perhaps the "environment" of the .jsd for the 2nd fence
or buried in the .exe, e.g. cant handle more than one terrain element related to wirecutters,
in which case the question arises whether somebody already took a look at that part of the code to overcome the limitation?
Re: Changing Tilesets[message #353594 is a reply to message #353589] Sun, 27 May 2018 16:11 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
edmortimer

 
Messages:1078
Registered:January 2015
Location: Home Free
Do you still have this download safely tucked away somewhere?

Quote:
1. You won't have Unfinished Business tilesets by default unless you are editing UB or a mod which already has added these additional Tilesets. An enhanced tileset pack is still available from here: http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=264320#Post264437




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