The Bears Pit: JA2 Demise of Man

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Re: Demise of Man[message #313895]

Fri, 04 January 2013 20:15

Thor

Messages:423
Registered:February 2007
Location: Belgium

Does this mean that we'll be able to have sandbags in every sector? Sounds like great progress!

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Master Sergeant

Re: Demise of Man[message #313908]

Sat, 05 January 2013 03:35

Hawkeye

Messages:2416
Registered:October 2005
Location: Australia

Thor

Does this mean that we'll be able to have sandbags in every sector? Sounds like great progress!

That is possible, even with current tilesets in vanilla or standard 1.13. You'd just need to have them in the generic folder (Tileset 00) and make sure all other tilesets use sandbags, or alternatively avoid other tilesets using the slot which sandbags are placed in.

Not sure what you mean Callahan about using different textures with the same name. Did you mean the name of the Sti/JSD? or the name of the slot in the tileset? If you use Sti's that have the same name but different contents/images the engine is likely to just pick the first sti with that name in the directory, if I remember correctly. It will also make things pretty confusing using the same names for something visually different, and may cause conflicts or crashes if they have different amount of frames or jsd structures.

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Lieutenant

Re: Demise of Man[message #313912]

Sat, 05 January 2013 11:39

Callahan

Messages:63
Registered:May 2006
Location: Germany

Relating to the different textures I mean the following problem:

"asign2.sti" in Tileset "drassen airport" is different from "asign2.sti" in meduna airport.

So, if I would place that in my generic folder, this version would override the files in the original tilesets.
STI image as well as structure JSD.

So I may only adjust files that are the same in all tilesets.

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Corporal
JA2 DoM Creator

Re: Demise of Man[message #313918]

Sat, 05 January 2013 16:58

Flugente

Messages:3509
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany

Aye, thats what I am talking about... so you are basically replacing tilesets with other tilesets - you have not found a (hopefully easy) way to expand the number of tilesets a map can use?

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Captain

Re: Demise of Man[message #313924]

Sat, 05 January 2013 19:12

Callahan

Messages:63
Registered:May 2006
Location: Germany

Nope, sorry. I am just starting to dig into this whole tileset thing.

Basically I am replacing structure files (STI & JSD) that are used within the tilesets without editing the tilesets themselves.

As I am currently updating the LOS and cover system in general, I just wanted to edit a single JSD and make all tilesets being influenced.

So I did not change all the tilesets, but changed Sandbag.JSD and put it into my new "tilesets\\all"
folder.
Every tileset (or map) using a "Sandbags.sti" will now use my edited file instead of the tileset

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Corporal
JA2 DoM Creator

Re: Demise of Man[message #313925]

Sat, 05 January 2013 19:29

Flugente

Messages:3509
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany

Too bad. We were working on expanding the number of tilesets one can use, but this proves to be very difficult. We've reached a point where we - theoretically - can add almost infinite tilesets to one map, but it has serious drawbacks (shadows/doors not working, code incompatibilities, needed rework of Ja2set.dat.xml...). So I'm jumping at every straw I can get Smile

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Captain

Re: Demise of Man[message #313933]

Sun, 06 January 2013 01:03

wanne (aka RoWa21)

Messages:1961
Registered:October 2005
Location: Austria

Flugente

Too bad. We were working on expanding the number of tilesets one can use, but this proves to be very difficult. We've reached a point where we - theoretically - can add almost infinite tilesets to one map, but it has serious drawbacks (shadows/doors not working, code incompatibilities, needed rework of Ja2set.dat.xml...). So I'm jumping at every straw I can get

A member from the Bear's Pit named "Shuwar" was also working on this, but I think he never finished it, cause he ran into some troubles. Anyway I have the source code changes and a few info into my SVN folder. Maybe that helps:

https://ja2svn.dyndns.org/source/ja2/branches/Wanne/TODOs/Use%20more%20Than%201%20Tileset%20per%20Map

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Sergeant Major

Re: Demise of Man[message #313941]

Sun, 06 January 2013 03:12

Hawkeye

Messages:2416
Registered:October 2005
Location: Australia

Of course Tilesets are expandable, just not to an infinite amount. You may also be aware vanilla did not use every available frame within some tiles, and there was a lot of repeated tiles within the tilesets themselves (the oil drums for example.) You also have some room to expand/edit if you are not using the UB tileset.

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Lieutenant

Re: Demise of Man[message #313942]

Sun, 06 January 2013 03:37

Flugente

Messages:3509
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany

Hawkeye

Of course Tilesets are expandable, just not to an infinite amount. You may also be aware vanilla did not use every available frame within some tiles, and there was a lot of repeated tiles within the tilesets themselves (the oil drums for example.) You also have some room to expand/edit if you are not using the UB tileset.

Well yes. But this method uses existing gaps in maps. This can be very limited. What I am looking for is a method to add lots of tilesets to existing maps. This would open the door to a myriad of new features - not only would mappers have much more to choose from, but we would then have a method of building basically everything ingame. Not only sandbags, but potentially ANYTHING that is in tilesets, and that even in the old vanilla maps.

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Captain

Re: Demise of Man[message #313953]

Sun, 06 January 2013 11:12

Callahan

Messages:63
Registered:May 2006
Location: Germany

During creation of my own structure files I also detected that slots of JA2SET are using a limited amount of items.

When I tried to circumvent the slot limitation, I created a file "FURN_6" with 30 items. The editor showed them, but placed another structure instead when an index too high was placed.

I do not know much about how the code handles this, but would it not be easier to expand the files rather than to increase the amount of files ?

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Corporal
JA2 DoM Creator

Re: Demise of Man[message #314233]

Mon, 14 January 2013 12:39

Callahan

Messages:63
Registered:May 2006
Location: Germany

New cover system -

It is not finished yet, but will allow you to test it and give feedback while I try to teach the AI the benefits of taking cover.

Exe is inside "All" folder. Folder must be placed under "DEMISE/TILESETS" on co-level to other tileset data. There they will override all Structure files of these names.
( So far I only edited outdoor structures for test )

It contains some severely mutated JSDs that will only work well with the new cover system.
DO NOT RELOCATE OR USE THEM WITH ANY OTHER MOD !!!

Explanation:
There are now 2 types of cover.

Solid, shape based cover like sandbags and dynamic cover based on density.
All structures less dense than 100% are dynamic.

One can shoot around them if close, and their density is modified by precision of shot.
A shot with 80% Acc. will reduce density by 40% of it

[Updated on: Sun, 20 November 2022 06:22] by Moderator

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Corporal
JA2 DoM Creator

Re: Demise of Man[message #314241]

Tue, 15 January 2013 01:40

Hawkeye

Messages:2416
Registered:October 2005
Location: Australia

Would this build still be compatible with older versions of DOM, and in particular my game saves? I'd like to test out some of this new stuff, but don't want to jeopardise my current game as I've been playing for quite some time now. Would be good though if this file has the fixes for some other issues mentioned before.

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Lieutenant

Re: Demise of Man[message #314247]

Tue, 15 January 2013 11:11

Callahan

Messages:63
Registered:May 2006
Location: Germany

I do think so, but you may make a backup of your latest save before experimenting.
I designed this debug version so it will co-exist with current DoM.

The exe is named "DoM Cover", so it will not replace your "Demise of man" exe.
The new JSDs and STIs are not overwriting any old files, too. They are to be stored in "DEMISE\\tilesets\\ALL" where only the new debug exe will access them.

So, provided I did my job right, you cannot wreck your version.

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Corporal
JA2 DoM Creator

Re: Demise of Man[message #314290]

Wed, 16 January 2013 13:42

Hawkeye

Messages:2416
Registered:October 2005
Location: Australia

I've had some very weird experiences since moving over to this exe which I played tonight.

First noticeable difference was enemies around the map were no longer hidden with big red question marks, I could see the amount by their red blips. Fair enough.

I didn't have much chance to see if cover was working to a great deal. Though my mercs armed with pistols seemed to be shooting a whole lot more accurately while behind cover, and doing more damage. Or maybe I just haven't used the SOCOM pistol as much.

Strange things started to happen later on. I have control of 3 out of 4 sectors in Alma, however when the enemy reinforced the 4th sector, I was told Alma was revolting and I suddenly had a large amount of militia spawned there, which triggered a battle which I auto resolved. Still okay?

Once returing to one of my Alma sectors after some skirmishes I had a battle warning, but when I loaded the tactical screen some of my mercs had moved, and no enemies were present. But the sector still had the flashing red hostile indicators on the map, however the sector was not hostile, as I was able to talk to villagers, and sleep. I got a warning in the map screen:

Revolt in sector use $7040 in Alma

and

Citizens of Alma are revolting!

Still no effect on my team as I could tell. When it came to one of my other mercs entering the SAM site by Drassen it asked me to position mercs, but instead of my single travelling merc, it wanted to place all of my mercs in Alma???? but the placement screen would not let me, so the game was broken.

Never had anything remotely happen like this. But I'm thinking this latest exe may not quite be up for playing with yet, or not suitable to be played with existing DOM databases or game saves?

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Lieutenant

Re: Demise of Man[message #314294]

Wed, 16 January 2013 16:29

Callahan

Messages:63
Registered:May 2006
Location: Germany

The exe is only for testing the Cover system and is a build for debugging new functions, and designed that way.
So for the all visible enemies.

Mercs should not shoot more accurate with cover. It is more like the incoming bullets may hit structures now much more realistic - or at least I hope so.
So you will only be able to test this well while being under fire.

The "revolt" system was part of the "total rebellion" function that is converting surpluss loyality into militia.
It can occur when a town sector has 0% loyality for the side controlling it.

It was designed to bring more of a "civil war" feeling, but is still a bit buggy and did not make it into the release version.
But I did never see anything like a broken game with those entry positions.
Frankly, I didn

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Corporal
JA2 DoM Creator

Re: Demise of Man[message #314304]

Thu, 17 January 2013 01:19

Hawkeye

Messages:2416
Registered:October 2005
Location: Australia

I did have some opportunities with cover, but could not fully understand a lot of the numbers and figures that were shown. It also seemed to reveal my possibilities of hitting targets when I hit the F key, as well as list the condition of my equipment.

The revolt happened in another sector. I have been clearing Alma, with only H13 remaining. I had my mercs stationed at I 14, and then noted enemies moved into H13 which then triggered a militia battle. However, I had not stationed any militia there before, it seemed I'd magically acquired a large number of militia there and then, I actually find it hard to afford militia, and prefer to just recruit miners, NPC's and San Mona heavies on the fly with the Numpad + key. I can't entirely remember if a revolt was mentioned in this instance, though quite possible.

I do still have a gamesave if you want to check it out.

The battle sequence in the 'empty' sector was strange, and fear that's what broke the game. Was this supposed to trigger some sort of battle between my mercs and villagers? I can confirm there was mention of a revolt in the status screen, but none of my mercs commented on it.

Would there be any chance of you uploading your last stable release of DOM? I fear the one I am using, and the one which sits in Kermi's site, may be out of date. But at the moment seems more stable than this current build. It may clear up any discrepancies between your latest development build. I am wanting to play this game through start to finish, and already have quite some time invested in it.

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Lieutenant

Re: Demise of Man[message #314313]

Thu, 17 January 2013 12:17

Callahan

Messages:63
Registered:May 2006
Location: Germany

The "F" key does give several levels of information if not over a target.
How well the merc can take use of additional aiming.
How well the merc can reduce the burst penalty in percent. ( not including special skill ability )
How good his gun and ammo can pierce armor.
And newly all structures shape and density in that tile.

The savegame would be great to have.
Please send to "rouletters@aol.com"

It is possible there was a revolt in a sector that is not under player control, but without any redshirts stationed there. I will correct this possibility and see how it is developing.

May latest stable ( a loose term ) release build is probably not working with the older XMLs. And I am working on making those attachments being kept when plugging them onto something.
( Like a gun onto your kevlarpants )
It looks good so far, but the SOLDIERTYPE struct had to be changed, so the next version will no longer be compatible with any old saves.

If militia are hard to afford: Did you know you can upgrade mining with hitting the "U" key when a mine sector is selected on map screen ? Quite costly, but on the long term very handy.
You may even open up the san mona mine again.

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Corporal
JA2 DoM Creator

Re: Demise of Man[message #314352]

Fri, 18 January 2013 07:05

Hawkeye

Messages:2416
Registered:October 2005
Location: Australia

Game save sent.

I was aware of upgrading mines, but have resisted doing so, as I figure this will just exhaust them quicker. The technique I'm using of just recruiting random guys for user controlled Militia is sort of fun too, if a little involved. Adding usually hostile or unrecruitable characters is also an interesting touch.

I'm still wondering how out of date my build (the one at Kermi's) is. The User interface is a bit messed up too, with the roster screen, and your inventory off by a handful of pixels, but it's still playable.

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Lieutenant

Re: Demise of Man[message #314357]

Fri, 18 January 2013 11:56

Callahan

Messages:63
Registered:May 2006
Location: Germany

Thanks for your save.

Given the fact you both encountered a seemingly very rare crash occasion with the new debug build AND your messed up interface ( mine never got messed up in any way ), you seem to own a good portion of bad luck.

Mine upgrade does not exhaust them quicker. Actually, you can stop a mine from running out by upgrading it while running out.
Even worse, mining is slowly going down over time. Upgrading will keep them running.

I am making some progress with the new cover system. Lately, I added a chance to get through check.
It is working like "display cover", but if you hold SHIFT it will show the enemies cover - actually your mercs chance to get past any structures.

I can now use this function to calculate the best position for AI soldiers.
Their previous system only decided between shooting and hiding, but they were not using a tree even if nearby.

Also wonder if I should give defensive bonus in autoresolve, as defender cover in tactical does now have a serious effect.
Yet, I do not know how to calculate a bonus based on a whole map in any reasonable way.

As soon as I got this working, I will clean up and port over to a release build.
I

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Corporal
JA2 DoM Creator

Re: Demise of Man[message #314567]

Tue, 22 January 2013 12:03

Callahan

Messages:63
Registered:May 2006
Location: Germany

Slight progress on AI using cover.

The little sweethearts are now behaving quite intelligent using cover - well most of the time that is.
They sometimes move from A to Z like headless chicken, especially if the cover situation is instable due to enemy movement.
This running around is then of course changeing cover situation for militia causing the same here, giving it an infinite loop style. Funny to observe, but less productive of course.

I

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Corporal
JA2 DoM Creator

Re: Demise of Man[message #315806]

Fri, 01 March 2013 11:50

Callahan

Messages:63
Registered:May 2006
Location: Germany

Almost completed my test game. Just a few Meduna sectors left.

Had to rewrite some of my updated JSD files. Learned the hard way that JSD's are built up inverted, with byte 1 for cube 5, byte 2 for 4 and so on. Had to mirror the structure image in mind while rewriting those JSD's.

Bloody shame, what a mess !!!
Those JA 2 coders definitely had a talent for torture...

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Corporal
JA2 DoM Creator

Re: Demise of Man[message #315946]

Tue, 05 March 2013 05:38

Hawkeye

Messages:2416
Registered:October 2005
Location: Australia

Found another bug if you're interested, I found not all Mercs exit out of the Ice Cream van correctly. I had one game where one merc remained inside, when I ejected him clicking on the seatbelt Icon, he entered the map but the seatbelt remained under him. When clicking on this the game crashes. I'll get you a save if you want it.

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Lieutenant

Re: Demise of Man[message #316179]

Mon, 11 March 2013 14:41

Callahan

Messages:63
Registered:May 2006
Location: Germany

So here is the updated DoM.

http://kermi.pp.fi/JA_2/Mods_Vanilla/Demise_of_Man/ export.rar - Latest files which are current as of May 2015 (Were originally updated Dec 2013) - Ed

Unpack into any empty location.
You will have to add all the vanilla SLF files to DATA folder.
Then it should be fully operational.

Taking cover is now essential, greatly changing gameplay. I did my best to upgrade the AI in using cover. They are now as smart as I could code them.
Use "INSERT" + "DEL" to see how good you can shoot at a target.

[Updated on: Sat, 30 May 2015 06:07] by Moderator

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Corporal
JA2 DoM Creator

Re: Demise of Man[message #316201]

Tue, 12 March 2013 03:29

Hawkeye

Messages:2416
Registered:October 2005
Location: Australia

I take it this new build would not be compatible with an old save? From your previous cover upload?

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Lieutenant

Re: Demise of Man[message #316209]

Tue, 12 March 2013 11:35

Callahan

Messages:63
Registered:May 2006
Location: Germany

The saves are fully compatible.
The change I intended for fixing the lost attachments when plugging an item onto another one was a dead end, and changing the OBJECTTYPE instead was rendering maps unreadable.
So while I actually failed to find a fix for this, that kept the savegame structure as it was.

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Corporal
JA2 DoM Creator

Re: Demise of Man[message #316214]

Tue, 12 March 2013 14:14

Hawkeye

Messages:2416
Registered:October 2005
Location: Australia

Cool stuff, I'll download it then!

Though I'm not sure I need enemies any smarter at the moment, I'm still playing the constant tug of war between keeping that replicator churning out armour and ammo, and keeping what mercs I have still alive.

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Lieutenant

Re: Demise of Man[message #316238]

Wed, 13 March 2013 11:20

Callahan

Messages:63
Registered:May 2006
Location: Germany

Depending on terrain, the new cover mod may actually help you in defending sectors.
Setting up ambushes at the edge of a forrest and forcing the red's to attack from the open can be very helpfull.

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Corporal
JA2 DoM Creator

Re: Demise of Man[message #316305]

Sat, 16 March 2013 15:38

Hawkeye

Messages:2416
Registered:October 2005
Location: Australia

All seems to be working fine, but what is this toxin A used for? Noticed it in the replicator which is new to me.

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Lieutenant

Re: Demise of Man[message #316339]

Sun, 17 March 2013 11:21

Callahan

Messages:63
Registered:May 2006
Location: Germany

There are some guns and items from "Alien Overlord" included, but unused.
Toxin A is a corrosive ammo for a Toxigun.
The weapon does not normally appear in DoM.

This is due to some changes I took from the AO source to upgrade DoM, and to not have to adapt all the code or XMLs, I just took the AO XMLs and kept unused items out of the regular game.
Some of them may actually work if built.

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Corporal
JA2 DoM Creator

Re: Demise of Man[message #316451]

Thu, 21 March 2013 17:55

Fan

Messages:204
Registered:March 2008
Location: Germany, Rheinl.-Pfalz

@Callahan,

I have only 11 (eleven) AP!
Is this correct?

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Sergeant 1st Class

Re: Demise of Man[message #316464]

Fri, 22 March 2013 03:09

Hawkeye

Messages:2416
Registered:October 2005
Location: Australia

11 AP will be the short turns used during firefights, for shorter and more intense battles. If you want to revert the AP's back to normal edit the ini settings in ja2options.ini and make SHORT_TURNS = 0 which disables them.

Callahan, has the amount of items being dropped by enemies increased in this build? I am thankfully getting a few handy weapons to use, which was virtually impossible with older versions of the game.

I have now taken Alma and made a raid into Cambria but sine lost Drassen. So still a challange, but fun, Perko is also a God send with repairing all my busted items.

As for maps, I'm sure there must be a number of custom built ones available at Kermi's site that are sitting unused. Or perhaps you could post a vacancy at the job forum if anyone would like to produce some new ones? The only issue is finding those that are compatible with Vanilla, as DOM is still not 1.13 friendly, is it?

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Lieutenant

Re: Demise of Man[message #316468]

Fri, 22 March 2013 10:26

Fan

Messages:204
Registered:March 2008
Location: Germany, Rheinl.-Pfalz

@Hawkeye,

thank you for your answer, which I like it very well.
For, when I played this extraordinary mod for the first time in the new version yesterday,
I thougt, I shall begin it for the last time.

[Updated on: Fri, 22 March 2013 10:27] by Moderator

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Sergeant 1st Class

Re: Demise of Man[message #316472]

Fri, 22 March 2013 14:10

Callahan

Messages:63
Registered:May 2006
Location: Germany

Yep, drops have been increased to make up for increased difficulty.

The "short turn feature" does not appear to be received well - good thing I made it switchable.

I originally invented it, because my enemies rarely had the opportunity to fire back at me, or worse - they blasted me away on spotting my mercs first.

Thanks for the maps hint. I'm currently testing those Wildfire maps from ZUXXEZ, but they are not fully compatible - there are crashes on loading some maps.
But I will steal their new mercs and put them in via my PCM.XML, so it finally is of some use...

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Corporal
JA2 DoM Creator

Re: Demise of Man[message #316474]

Fri, 22 March 2013 14:46

Hawkeye

Messages:2416
Registered:October 2005
Location: Australia

I didn't mind the short turns originally, but when one of your mercs is injured you are seriously hamstrung to apply first aid, or even move them out of the way of danger.

Even with turns back to original some of my enemies get the jump on me, especially if they have pistols, and seem to open up their entire clip before I can retaliate. So there's some balance there.

As for maps, it would be great to get some more Sci-Fi or apocalyptic tiles and elements in there. I'd like to help, but Vengeance is still taking up most of the development time I have right now.

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Lieutenant

Re: Demise of Man[message #316500]

Sat, 23 March 2013 12:51

Fan

Messages:204
Registered:March 2008
Location: Germany, Rheinl.-Pfalz

@Hawkeye,

you ment as to "vengeance" Scheinworlds "vengeance" and perhaps in combination with PCM?
I am so waiting for it!

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Sergeant 1st Class

Re: Demise of Man[message #316504]

Sat, 23 March 2013 13:06

Fan

Messages:204
Registered:March 2008
Location: Germany, Rheinl.-Pfalz

I have another question:

I am able to play DEMISE only with a mixture Ja2Gold(German), but not in Ja2Gold(English)
on Windows 8 by changing the adjustments by RMB for example WindowsXP-Mode.
Result for example: Displacements in the sectorinventory.
Is there anybody who may make Ja2Gold (English) playable?

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Sergeant 1st Class

Re: Demise of Man[message #316515]

Sun, 24 March 2013 05:16

Hawkeye

Messages:2416
Registered:October 2005
Location: Australia

I've never had issues with DOM in English, I got the impression the exe is based on the English install anyway, however I am using an original 1999 install from Talonsoft, not the Gold disk.

Only issues I've had apart from the odd annoying crash (especially underground fighting Aliens) is the inventory/items windows and the roster grid system seemed off by a handful of pixels, but I think even that has been fixed since the latest update.

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Lieutenant

Re: Demise of Man[message #316524]

Sun, 24 March 2013 16:07

Fan

Messages:204
Registered:March 2008
Location: Germany, Rheinl.-Pfalz

Sorry,

is there anybody who is able to write anything about Windows 8, Ja2Gold(English) and
Demise? And it is working!

Or working with Ja2_1.13?

The German Ja2Gold is working with adjustments and installing
with Ja2_1.13,
precisely Ja2Gold(German)_1.12 + Ja2_1.13 + Demise.

[Updated on: Sun, 24 March 2013 16:09] by Moderator

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Sergeant 1st Class

Re: Demise of Man[message #316540]

Mon, 25 March 2013 11:22

Callahan

Messages:63
Registered:May 2006
Location: Germany

If you are using my newest DoM release, you just have to add the vanilla SLFs.
No more need for Gold-install to be upgraded.
This should make thing a bit easier.

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Corporal
JA2 DoM Creator

Re: Demise of Man[message #316541]

Mon, 25 March 2013 12:41

Fan

Messages:204
Registered:March 2008
Location: Germany, Rheinl.-Pfalz

@Callahan,

thank you. I have the newest installation.
But I cannot find the mistake.
If I copy the contents of DEMISE into Ja2_1.12(German or English), a lot of
SLF are in the data-directory. Which "SLF" are missing?
In spite of this, the German works (but only by installing 1.13!!!), but the
English dosn't work with 1.13 or without 1.13.

But sorry, the German is a mixture of German and English because DEMISE is
in English. I have had a lot of CTD. But then it works again.

It is frustrating!

But as to Ja2_1.12 (English) without DEMISE:
It is not working in Windows 8 contrary to Ja2(each German Version).
???

[Updated on: Mon, 25 March 2013 12:42] by Moderator

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Sergeant 1st Class

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