Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » v1.13 General Development Talk » HAM SVN
HAM SVN[message #246706] Thu, 11 March 2010 05:28 Go to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1781
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
[size:!4pt]HAM is moving to SVN. You can stay updated with HAM and its source code with the same program used to download 1.13 (TortoiseSVN).[/size]

Instructions on using SVN are here.

To download the HAM exe and data files, checkout the following directory:
https://81.169.133.124/source/ja2/branches/Headrock/Build

You may want to learn how to use VFS to install this as a layer, so you could turn HAM on and off at will. Alternately, you could copy the data files into DATA-1.13 instead of DATA-HAM, overwriting what's there, and this should work just as well. However, overwriting files can always lead to problems later, especially if you decide to remove HAM for some reason.

The HAM source code is also available on SVN, here:
https://81.169.133.124/source/ja2/branches/Headrock/Source

Use at your own risk. Please remember that HAM is ALWAYS in testing, and is in no way guaranteed to be free of bugs.

If you have questions about INSTALLING HAM, please ask them here. Questions about HAM features should be posted in relevant threads and/or new threads.

Peace, enjoy.


Re: HAM SVN[message #246896] Sat, 13 March 2010 05:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
olol

 
Messages:28
Registered:March 2009
Can not Medical with ham 4.00
Re: HAM SVN[message #246897] Sat, 13 March 2010 06:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1781
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
Yeah I can imagine. I've left some unfinished code in there in the hope that it doesn't screw anything up. It does.

I don't expect HAM 4.00 to work as yet though.


Re: HAM SVN[message #246921] Sat, 13 March 2010 14:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Maalstroom

 
Messages:343
Registered:December 2008
Location: en route to San Hermanos
ham 4.0? isn't this way to fast? it's 4.0 because ham moved to svn or does it have new features already?
Re: HAM SVN[message #246925] Sat, 13 March 2010 15:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1781
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
Quote:
ham 4.0? isn't this way to fast?


No, not really. Firstly because I still have tons of ideas and can't sit quiet anyway. Secondly because I'm still active in finding and solving any HAM 3.6 bugs that might come up, there's no conflict. Thirdly because HAM isn't developed just to be added to 1.13, and if/when it is added it's never before it goes through prolonged testing. Finally, because there's always room for more HAM.

Quote:
it's 4.0 because ham moved to svn or does it have new features already?


If it didn't have new features, it would still be HAM 3.6. This version contains Manual Mobile Militia Restrictions. Unfortunately, as noted by olol, it also contains another half-finished feature that screws up assignments. Until noted otherwise, HAM is in testing (it actually always is), and there is no guarantee that it would be error free at this time.


Re: HAM SVN[message #246942] Sat, 13 March 2010 18:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaerar

 
Messages:2067
Registered:January 2003
Location: Australia :D
Hey you could call the next one Pantry 1.0 seeing as that's where the HAM is kept Wink
You know, like right next to the SPAM Razz


Re: HAM SVN[message #251924] Thu, 20 May 2010 13:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Raz
Messages:3
Registered:May 2010
Hi, I'm just posting this here because I couldn't find any other appropriate threads (the other HAM ones got locked).

So anyway, it seems rather counter-intuitive to me to suck away APs to such a degree that an entire turn is lost. If a person is being fired upon while behind cover, it would indeed be logical that he would stay put and not attempt to retaliate for as long as the fire is continuing. I suppose the fact that the person will be harder to hit afterward is supposed to model him taking cover.

However, if the person is flanked, he would make sure to get out of that cover rather than stay put, because that would mean certain death in any case. Especially if the person can't rely on support from teammates at that point. It also creates room for having vicious cycles of losing full turns from which the victim can't possibly escape by himself.

Therefore, would it be possible to directly calculate shock rather than derive it from lost AP? Reduced combat abilities are far more relevant to suppression than losing AP. Additionally, I can't seem to find a good justification for arbitrarily sucking out AP from targets - wouldn't being fired upon make you flee harder, if anything?

That said, I'm really enjoying HAM with tweaked suppression settings. Makes for much more dynamic gameplay, though I think shock will be rather sufficient to illustrate the effects of suppression. So if there was a way to not tie it to AP loss, that would be great.
Re: HAM SVN[message #251925] Thu, 20 May 2010 14:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3395
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
you can twist that in the INI
Re: HAM SVN[message #251936] Thu, 20 May 2010 19:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Jinxed

 
Messages:240
Registered:October 2008
Location: Land of Skanks and Cottag...
Yeah I wonder why isn't there another HAM thread :/ I wanted to post stuff in it for a while and now I don't even remember what it was.
Re: HAM SVN[message #252134] Mon, 24 May 2010 10:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Syzor
Messages:4
Registered:February 2002
Location: Australia
Raz


Therefore, would it be possible to directly calculate shock rather than derive it from lost AP?


Correct me If i am wrong here but wont a highly shocked ai with full ap look at its own CTH and do a banzai charge to find a better shot ?
Re: HAM SVN[message #252315] Wed, 26 May 2010 16:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
P.Val

 
Messages:80
Registered:May 2010
I'm a little bit confused. As I know, HAM is incorporated into 1.13, the only difference between "full HAM" and "basic 1.13" are just some ini settings (and facilities xml)
So, what exactly is this "HAM svn"?

As a more practical approach, I present you my dilemma:
- I never even tried to compile it myself, or even download the source
- I would like to start with some minor thing, like revamping revolvers and maybe some other things related to firing modes as I wrote it in the features requests page.
- What do I have to download exactly? I searched the forums for a while and could not find any useful information about how to download everything (current state-of the art working version) and build it myself. 1.13 and HAM and everything.
- Does it even worth doing some modifications in 1.13 if everyone will move to the SMP (1.14)?
What I plan are the followings (I cannot promise anything, real life time problems might stop me doing anything), sorted by priority and probability of even trying to implement them:

#1 (high) Making revolvers a little bit more realistic and useful by making unjamming easier (as each bullet has its own chamber). This will require adding a new entry to the weapons xml instead of hardcoding, as the system cannot make a difference between revolvers and self-loaders. Of course, it will be backwards-compatible as non-revolving guns will not be changed and the code will look only after the existence or non-existence of that entry.
#2 (medium to high) Revamping firing modes: In the original there was a special "Burst" button as there were not that many firing modes. I'm thinking about making firing modes more flexible (this can help with #4), and add, for example single action and double action modes for revolvers which support this in real life. (Firing it in single action mode makes it more accurate, simulated by either a flat cth bonus or allowing one aiming click more, but you have to cycle it manually like in the case of bolt-actions.) I'm already thinking about the awesome but impractical method of fanning the revolver (take a look at youtube video 3Vl9FniemlE): you can do it only in single action mode, it results in a very high rate of fire (bullets after the first one will be fired with reduced APs highly depending on dexterity, with the cost of very low range (or flat CTH penalty) and higher damage to the weapon)
#3 (medium) Non-magazine weapons like pump action shotguns, some lever-actions, and some revolvers (you can not use speedloaders on some vintage Colt single action army revolvers) would be reloaded in turned based mode one bullet at a time, and in real time mode in the old way.
#4 (quite low) two ammo types per weapon. A second magazine graphic in the lower left corner next to the first one, and considering grenades as ammo rather than attachments (if it would need too much redesign, a workaround would be to decrease the ammo, generate an old-fashioned grenade in a virtual extension slot and fire that grenade). This would make it more flexible, and will make it possible to use underbarrel shotguns, pre-aiming tracer bullets for some RPGs, double barreled hunting rifles with two calibers for buckshot and bullet (like the CZ-584 "Kozlice"), or even some sci-fi weapon combination possibilities for modders. The reload button will reload the primary ammo type, for the secondary one you would need to drag it to its respective slot or maybe assign a different hotkey to it. Not sure how to make the AI handle it. Pressing the "switch firing mode" key will cycle through all the firing modes of the first ammo type, and then through those of the second.

My questions are:
- is someone else already working on it?
- would most of the community not like having it in the system?
- should I wait for 1.14?
Re: HAM SVN[message #252316] Wed, 26 May 2010 17:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1781
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
Quote:
So, what exactly is this "HAM svn"?


HAM continues to evolve all the time. When team 1.13 chooses to do so, the "current" version of HAM is merged into 1.13. This happened twice so far, in 2008 with HAM 2.8, and in early 2010 with HAM 3.6. In between these merges, HAM continues to receive new features and modifications, which aren't available in 1.13 until the next merger.

HAM SVN is simply a way to stay up to date with HAM without having to download a zip file. It's easier to get specific files, the source code, etcetera.

At the moment there's really no reason to download HAM SVN. It has the Manual Militia Restrictions feature, which is very useful, but at the same time a half-finished feature called Kit Effectiveness screws it up because medical treatment is impossible. It'll be useful again once I add New CTH and remove or fix the Kit Effectiveness feature.

Quote:
What do I have to download exactly?


The latest 1.13 source code.

Quote:
should I wait for 1.14?


I wouldn't recommend it. 1.14, more correctly called "SMP", isn't the same idea as 1.13, nor will it replace 1.13 in the foreseeable future.


Re: HAM SVN[message #252317] Wed, 26 May 2010 17:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1781
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
Quote:
Correct me If i am wrong here but wont a highly shocked ai with full ap look at its own CTH and do a banzai charge to find a better shot ?


Might be. Or they'll run away. It's hard to tell how the AI will behave in such situations.

In any case, AP loss is meant to simulate the fear of exposing yourself to incoming fire. The original broken suppression system worked by eating up APs, I just fixed it so it works, and expanded it further with Shock. I don't think removing the AP penalties is a very good idea.


Re: HAM SVN[message #252318] Wed, 26 May 2010 17:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3809
Registered:July 2009
#1 Sounds like a good addition
#2 Not sure about SA/DA, revolvers already suffer from high AP cost.
Should not be restricted to revolvers, some shotguns can do this also.
Fanning?! That's JA2, not a freaking western.
#3 Don't bother, we have a 'magazine fed' tag which does exactly that. You have to reload some shotguns shell by shell.
#4 If I remember correctly, wil473 and Headrock both have plans for ammo and magazines, although on a rather low priority. You should talk to them as some of that stuff could actually make this problem obsolete. Also I'm not sure about grenades, as NAS actually allows for mixed load outs, a long wanted feature for grenade launchers that wouldn't be possible with current magazines.

About 1.14:
As I understand it, 1.14 shall become a 'stable and modular' modding platform, aside from that, it's in quite early planning stage. So for the foreseeable future, 1.13 stays the 'playground for cool new features'


Re: HAM SVN[message #252324] Wed, 26 May 2010 19:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nehan
Messages:4
Registered:May 2010
Got a problem with HAM, the 3.5 + STOMP version.
The thing is, I can't train mobile militia, or maybe I just don't know how to. From what I understand, to train mobiles I need to have a town full of regulars, and then the mercs train mobiles. However, it doesn't work as they just upgrade to elites!
It wouldn't be such a problem if i could train militia normally in sam sites, but with that gone in ham, skyrider is grounded for good. Please help.

on a sidenote, I salute you for your magnificent work on JA. What you have done to improve this game is beyond words. :clap:
Re: HAM SVN[message #252325] Wed, 26 May 2010 20:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3809
Registered:July 2009
Hi Nehan and welcome to the Pit.

Open your options.ini and check if 'MUST_TRAIN_MOBILE_MILITIA =' and 'ALLOW_MILITIA_MOBILE_GROUPS = ' are BOTH set to true. Than you should be able to train mobiles.
(standard location: data-1.13)


Re: HAM SVN[message #252328] Wed, 26 May 2010 20:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nehan
Messages:4
Registered:May 2010
thanks!
both were true, so that wasn't the case.
Re: HAM SVN[message #252329] Wed, 26 May 2010 20:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3809
Registered:July 2009
Do you have any other folders beginning with 'data' (besides data and data-1.13)? It can be a bit tricky to find the correct options.ini


Re: HAM SVN[message #252330] Wed, 26 May 2010 20:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3395
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
ham 3.5? you need to train them darkblue before you get mobiles (try 3.6)
Re: HAM SVN[message #252331] Wed, 26 May 2010 20:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1781
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
If you don't want town militia to be trained up to Elite level, change TRAIN_VETERAN_MILITIA to FALSE. Then, once the city is full of regulars, Mobiles will be trained next.
Otherwise, after training the city full of Elites, mobiles will be trained normally.

Note that this only occurs in your version (since you're using HAMSTOMP). With new game versions like current 1.13, mobile training is a separate option.


Re: HAM SVN[message #252334] Wed, 26 May 2010 21:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nehan
Messages:4
Registered:May 2010
that did the trick. thanks a lot.
Re: HAM SVN[message #252784] Wed, 02 June 2010 04:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Searry

 
Messages:12
Registered:June 2009
Somebody should really make a tutorial how to install this game!
There aren't any setting files or anything? Just the build and some interface files.
I hope somebody could make this a little easier. Most of the time i don't know which setup file to download and install. Do i need to download the newest 1.13 single click installer and then HAM 4.0 and then the 3.6 settings files? The new single click installer lacks the old 3.6 beta ham vsf. Super confusing!

[Updated on: Wed, 02 June 2010 04:39] by Moderator

Re: HAM SVN[message #252787] Wed, 02 June 2010 09:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
usrbid

 
Messages:1558
Registered:December 2008
Hi Searry, Welcome to the board!! Very Happy

Headrock mentioned something about VFS in his first post, please see below for your convenience.

Headrock
... You may want to learn how to use VFS to install this as a layer, so you could turn HAM on and off at will. Alternately, you could copy the data files into DATA-1.13 instead of DATA-HAM, overwriting what's there, and this should work just as well. However, overwriting files can always lead to problems later, especially if you decide to remove HAM for some reason. ...


Unfortunately I have not used HAM SVN yet, mostly because the SVN is work in progress and may still have bugs (possibly severe ones). The SVN (HAM, 1.13, or any other) is intended for testing only, Headrock please correct me if I am wrong. For example if someone requested a feature and Headrock put it in the code, the requestor can playtest (maybe using GABBI codes) to see if the feature is working as intended.

That said, you can install HAM like any other mod, just copy the files in the Data-1.13 folder. If you know how to use VFS, you can keep HAM in its own folder e.g. Data-HAM and either manually edit the vfs_config.JA2113.ini file, or better get a HAM specific VFS INI file (not sure if there is one, as I know Headrock he would have probably made one).

I also read (on this board) that Headrock has several INI files you can use to activate HAM features and which give "the full HAM game experience".

Edit: I found this thread with more info.

[Updated on: Wed, 02 June 2010 10:26] by Moderator



Re: HAM SVN[message #252831] Wed, 02 June 2010 21:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
I am having trouble getting Headrock's setting package to work as well. This is the second time I have tried.
Re: HAM SVN[message #252832] Wed, 02 June 2010 21:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3395
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
what did'ya do? - headrocks setting are a vfs-setup
Re: HAM SVN[message #252833] Wed, 02 June 2010 21:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
I am inexperienced with vfs. I tried just altering ini files.
Re: HAM SVN[message #252834] Wed, 02 June 2010 21:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3395
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
that's why i probably didn't work - did not find that stuff
Re: HAM SVN[message #252835] Wed, 02 June 2010 22:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
I just want latest svn with Headrock's setting package for right now.
Re: HAM SVN[message #252836] Wed, 02 June 2010 22:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3395
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
that's easy - just unpack his archive and copy the contents od 'data-ham' to 'data_1.13'
Re: HAM SVN[message #252837] Wed, 02 June 2010 22:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
okay I will try that. That is a whole lot less confusing.

Re: HAM SVN[message #252838] Wed, 02 June 2010 22:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
Also,

What's with all of the red errors regarding ini options upon initial start-up?
Re: HAM SVN[message #252839] Wed, 02 June 2010 22:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3395
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
too old options.ini - it has been changed - the new exe cannot read it - perhaps you have to adapt the svn1220-ini per hand to 'full-throattle'
Re: HAM SVN[message #252840] Wed, 02 June 2010 22:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
so no?
Re: HAM SVN[message #252841] Wed, 02 June 2010 22:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1781
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
@ Tao:

Make sure you have 1.13 build 1220 or higher (I believe the build number is 3349 or 3359). Then download the settings package from here. Read the readme inside carefully.

If that doesn't work, you might need to mess with the INI editor - sometimes it selects the wrong files for some reason.


Re: HAM SVN[message #252842] Wed, 02 June 2010 22:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3395
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
that means:

1. copy your existing ini to a save place
2. copy that ham-stuff to 1.13

if it does not work - open both inis and put the ham-changes into the 1220-ini (there have changes been made - the switches may have different names now

if i'm not totally mistaken headrock had upped both ini-versions
Re: HAM SVN[message #252843] Wed, 02 June 2010 22:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
I have latest SVN update and have your settings package. I have the game running, but altering ini via ini editor is not producing the desired effects that I want. It seems as if I am altering every ini except the one that changes anything.
Re: HAM SVN[message #252845] Wed, 02 June 2010 22:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3395
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
use a word-processor - i always do it that way
Re: HAM SVN[message #252846] Wed, 02 June 2010 22:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anonymous
which ini does the game read for latest svn 1.13?
Re: HAM SVN[message #252847] Wed, 02 June 2010 22:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3395
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
the one that comes in 'data_1.13' - i really think headrock had two versions upped

- pre 12xx
- after 12xx

obviously you need the latter
Re: HAM SVN[message #252848] Wed, 02 June 2010 22:31 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Anonymous
Okay so everything should be good then. Thanks Headrock and Logisteric.
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