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Wildfire(retail): Night Ops Expert, and still most enemies can see much farther than me[message #248114]
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Mon, 29 March 2010 20:06
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TheAnyKey |
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Messages:56
Registered:March 2010 |
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Hi,
I have yet another issue with JA2 wildfire.
I'm at day 36, my IMP is Night Ops expert and Level 9. Obviously I engage at night, whenever possible. Nonetheless the enemies spot me always first and get the first turn, even if I remain still and wait for them in in stealth mode in the crouching or recumbent position.
They seem to be able to see at least 3-4 tiles farther than me and they haven't dropped night vision goggles yet. So I suppose they don't use any.
Shouldn't I be able to spot the enemies first due to the night vision bonus of night ops?
Thanks.
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Corporal
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Re: Wildfire(retail): Night Ops Expert, and still most enemies can see much farther than me[message #248124]
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Mon, 29 March 2010 21:39
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usrbid |
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Messages:1506
Registered:December 2008 |
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Hi TheAnyKey, I haven't played retail WF yet, I always installed 1.13 and at least AIM on top of it. However what you are describing sounds like my game experience on Vanilla.
I am currently playing the 8,000+ enemies save game on Vanilla where every sector has 32+ enemies, the only way to clear a sector is at night, and even then it is very challenging.
Regular enemies seem to see 1-3 tiles further than my AIM guys without night vision goggles and night ops skill.
I gave Grunty UV goggles (not sure if they are in WF), he also has one night ops skill. With this outfit he seems to see regular enemies 1-2 tiles before they can see him.
Elites are a completely different matter, Grunty has no chance, it seems their vision outranges his by about 4 tiles. Vanilla doesn't have NVG 1 through 4 like 1.13 has, so fighting elites at night is a little tricky.
Here are a couple of things which help:
- Use cammo kits, it will buy you 1 maybe 2 tiles
- use two of your soldiers to flank an elite, they seem to focus on one direction and can't handle two of your guys creeping up to them
- once you spot the elite, they probably can see you too, use all your other guys to shoot and throw grenades at the elite, use your spotter last
One level in night ops should give you one additional tile while to level should give a total of 3 tiles (but I am not certain how it works in retail WF).
Even though this is all quite tough, with enough patience you can even steal from elites, anyway they have the best weapons (and attachments). If you throw a stun grenade and manage to get one of your guys to crowbar the elite on the ground, you have a pretty decent chance the elite won't get up before it is your turn again. Then just gang up on the guy, steal his weapon and finish with the crowbar.
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Re: Wildfire(retail): Night Ops Expert, and still most enemies can see much farther than me[message #248272]
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Wed, 31 March 2010 21:49
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TheAnyKeyWill GatesIt's a level of "realism". Special Elite Forces will always be better than some freelancer merc on a thrill trip of a lifetime. Just not designed for solo missions this one; hire some ex soldiers with the necessary discipline.
Who sais a freelancer merc can't be a former member of a Special Elite Force and far better trained than some soldiers of a private army in a developing country? Nikolai Cherenko from the film "The Mechanik" or the members of the A-Team for example are ex Special Forces.
Which are the "ex soldiers with the necessary discipline"? Are there any hirelings which perform better at night than the IMP with night ops expert?
Thanks.
The difference is realism.
Current special elite force versus Ex-special elite force.
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Re: Wildfire(retail): Night Ops Expert, and still most enemies can see much farther than me[message #248285]
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Thu, 01 April 2010 00:47
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TheAnyKey |
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Messages:56
Registered:March 2010 |
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DepressivesBrotI tend to say that the devs of wildfire didn't necessarily aim for more realism but for creating a more challenging game. So the whole debate if it's realistic for the enemy to see further based on assumptions who had the better training seems kinda fruitless, unless someone digs out an old statement of them that says otherwise (no, I'm not gonna look). Just my thoughts about the subject, feel free to go on.
Right, it is a video game and therefore in no way completely realistic. The degree of realism is up to the developers of the game. I just said that an ex elite soldier doesn't necessary have to be inferior in combat, just because he isn't in his special force anymore.
Logisteric+1
depri, you forgot:
if you don't like it, don't play it
What do you mean? One can't discuss the game? Just don't play it if you don't like it and keep your thoughts to yourself? I don't think so.
You are entitled to express thoughts about the game, especially in a game related forum. We are here on the "Gameplay Discussions" board and that is just what we are doing, discussing the gameplay.
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Corporal
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Re: Wildfire(retail): Night Ops Expert, and still most enemies can see much farther than me[message #248288]
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Thu, 01 April 2010 01:40
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TheAnyKey |
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Messages:56
Registered:March 2010 |
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Logistericyou call it discussing - i call it wining
btw, where is the sense in 'discussing' something you can't change? noone even knows the devs of wildfire, let alone their code.
Are you serious?
Many discussions are about things you can't change. A discussion is an exchange of thoughts and opinions. It per se has no goal. There doesn't need to be the goal to change anything. Ever read a review or critique of a film, a book, a video game or attended a discussion about them?
People are discussing things they can't change all the time. Did you ever talk with somebody whether you liked something or not, e.g. a film, a book or a video game? Well, the film is out you can't change it.
Having thoughts and opinions and exchanging them with others is part of our nature.
If you don't like the discussion, don't attend it. It is as easy as you said.
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Corporal
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Re: Wildfire(retail): Night Ops Expert, and still most enemies can see much farther than me[message #248374]
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Thu, 01 April 2010 23:54
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TheAnyKey |
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Messages:56
Registered:March 2010 |
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Logistericthe one rambo-movie that is really good is the one where he fights the cops - both others are a 'personal' matter - so if you don't come up with something like your imp has fallen in love with enrico's sister in still think a pro fights for cash (a lot of that) - and someone who does it fot 45k and what he may find (even for his expensis) is either not a pro or a madman.
you wanted a discussion about that, didn't you?
I never said I wasn't open for discussions, you must have misread something.
Rambo saved his friend. He also saved the POWs and the Afghan people.
He was convinced that it was necessary and the right thing to do. He made it a personal matter and did it for the cause not for cash. The main character in JA2 can as well be convinced that it is the right thing to free the people of Arulco from oppression. Why does the protagonist in JA2 has to be a greedy selfish bastard whose only interest is money. In my opinion freeing Arulco from oppression is a good cause to fight for, even if the pay is bad(which really isn't in JA2).
That someone isn't a "pro" if he does work for xx money is just your opinion and doesn't say anything about why someone can't work for any amount of money he wants or gets offered. The amount of payment someone gets doesn't necessary reflect its skills. There are far too many under- and overpaid people in the world.
Yes, he is someone who "fights for cash", that is obvious and was never doubted, since he gets paid for his services. I argued against your point that the protagonist in JA2 is a hillbilly with little skill.
Anyways, this is a video game, and doesn't need to be seen too realistic, just like the Rambo movies for instance. If you want to play as a sparsely trained merc just think of him as such, or adjust his skills and attributes accordingly at the creation. This is after all a RPG, and can be enjoyed in many ways.
In JA2 it is nowhere mentioned, that the main character is a poorly trained hick. The gameplay reveals that he is very well suited for and highly skilled in combat if he is trained accordingly.
But you can create your character as you like, and even give him poor fighting skills and maybe better technical abilities or neither.
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Corporal
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Re: Wildfire(retail): Night Ops Expert, and still most enemies can see much farther than me[message #248394]
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Fri, 02 April 2010 09:39
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TheAnyKey |
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Messages:56
Registered:March 2010 |
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Logisterica level one merc is no one-man-army
Have you ever played any other RPGs? In most of them the hero starts at a low level and with low attributes, often at level one and gets better and stroger the farther the game progresses to be able to overcome greater challenges.
In JA2 the main character starts at level one too and gets better with his experience, just like in other RPGs. The difference I see in JA2 is that you can already start at level one with very good fighting skills. If you choose automatic weapons expert, psycho and 85/90 marksmanship you are indeed very well trained for combat right from the start.
What makes you think, that the main character, the protagonist, your alter ego in the game is nothing special, just anybody.
There may be RPGs where you play as a regular Joe, but in most games your character is special, a hero and especially skilled and suited for the tasks ahead and then increases his skills as the game progresses and gets harder. This is no different in JA2.
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Re: Wildfire(retail): Night Ops Expert, and still most enemies can see much farther than me[message #252871]
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Thu, 03 June 2010 08:18
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wwor2002 |
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Messages:27
Registered:May 2010 |
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[quote=TheAnyKey]Logisteric The main character in JA2 can as well be convinced that it is the right thing to free the people of Arulco from oppression. Why does the protagonist in JA2 has to be a greedy selfish bastard whose only interest is money. In my opinion freeing Arulco from oppression is a good cause to fight for, even if the pay is bad(which really isn't in JA2).
d.
Yes, he is someone who "fights for cash", that is obvious and was never doubted, since he gets paid for his services. I argued against your point that the protagonist in JA2 is a hillbilly with little skill.
Anyways, this is a video game, and doesn't need to be seen too realistic, just like the Rambo movies for instance. If you want to play as a sparsely trained merc just think of him as such, or adjust his skills and attributes accordingly at the creation. This is after all a RPG, and can be enjoyed in many ways.
In JA2 it is nowhere mentioned, that the main character is a poorly trained hick. The gameplay reveals that he is very well suited for and highly skilled in combat if he is trained accordingly.
But you can create your character as you like, and even give him poor fighting skills and maybe better technical abilities or neither.
He is a hillbilly with lotsa skill.
btw, one of the reasons why i am choosing to play this game with free/cheap losers is because i wanna see how much money i can save in the end.
Since all the mining income/guns sales money is coming into my account, i will just treat the remaining money in my bank as a successful mission bonus after i take D's head.
A bonus big enough to qualify as my retirement money. How does 7 figures sound like to you?
Yeah it is cosmetic but it is realistic as well. I mean, a person in real life will do the same. Hire cheap/free mercs and hope they perform. That is how manufacturers/corporations behave in real life anyway hiring cheap employees.
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