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the most stupid ai-tactics[message #257209] Thu, 22 July 2010 22:21 Go to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3474
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
well, this is not about the usual suspects like knifing et al. this is about new stuff that even (for the arulcan army) must be considered totally nuts

my example is a counter attack by evil forces on cambria mine (wildfire maps) - as i saw the enemy moving into centSam i send my a-squad to the mine to take position on the roof of the small post left to the main entrance for a turkey shoot- after that i send the militia out of harm's way but had to keep two of them in the sector (they consequently are both nominated for a medal, posthumuosly of course).

the funny thing is that an attacking enemy tries to get a man to the switch (red dot) to sound the alarm and thus make the defender (me) aware that something is going on. one of them got there and after having done his duty was shot by the remaining green militia.

this is really unique tactics - not only a 'human wave'-style full frontal assault but about a third of the attacking force getting shot to pieces when trying to alarm the defending garisson

http://ppwfpg.blu.livefilestore.com/y1ppZZ5Kq-vhnUUM2eMgFmvqAHFTt_GDUoj6Yej5s06bPw8rhK5ZYMLV2gDn1cBFw1kon0d07_zDebcXOTnUrycMasas6QpuYru/ai-gaga.jpg
Re: the most stupid ai-tactics[message #257211] Thu, 22 July 2010 22:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gorro der Grüne

 
Messages:1570
Registered:March 2009
Location: Broadwurschd-City
that't can be seen nearly everwhere where a alarm switch/button is installed
Re: the most stupid ai-tactics[message #257214] Thu, 22 July 2010 22:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3776
Registered:July 2009
Happens to me all the time when there's a alarm switch on the map, sometimes I think "how the hell did he even get there" until I find some tiny hole in my overlapping firing arcs or remember that one of them managed to run past them, a bullet in his head, but still running.

However, I wonder if it's worth deactivating the 'push the button' routine altogether (or at least moving it way down the priority queue) and see what happens. Sure it would take away the time pressure on some maps (alma military base and warehouses for example). But seeing as it's most of the time a disadvantage for the enemies if they keep running to that switch like lemmings, it might be worth considering, for testing purposes of course.

Same happens with those light installations around military installations. They light up the area and then run out in the (now well lit) perimeter to be shot by your mercs (who are safely hidden in the darkness).

Which is a stupid tactic all of itself. Those SAM sites and bases are literally fortresses when using wildfire maps. But instead of crouching behind sandbags and giving you a hard time, enemies and militia alike will run out and greet you personally, until a tracer greets them. (except some specifically placed campers, hmm, perhaps more enemy slots on those maps should be set to 'camping'?)


Re: the most stupid ai-tactics[message #257217] Thu, 22 July 2010 23:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smeagol

 
Messages:2713
Registered:June 2008
Location: Bremen, Germany
A possible solution could be to activate this behaviour only when the enemy is defending a sector (though it is still exploitable if you know where the switch is and can reach it quietly before it gets activated).


Re: the most stupid ai-tactics[message #257221] Thu, 22 July 2010 23:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3474
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
smeagol
A possible solution could be to activate this behaviour only when the enemy is defending a sector (though it is still exploitable if you know where the switch is and can reach it quietly before it gets activated).


that should be done, if it's possible - no invader needs to tell he is there by using the alarm. he can wake the defender at leisure with some fireworks.

don't see an exploit here - as it looka the army is made up of drafties (there must be lots of ex-army willing to tell) - i call something like that proper planing Very Happy

btw i never give a damn about alarms - if they want it loud they get it loud
Re: the most stupid ai-tactics[message #257222] Thu, 22 July 2010 23:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gorro der Grüne

 
Messages:1570
Registered:March 2009
Location: Broadwurschd-City
DepressivesBrot
placed campers, hmm, perhaps more enemy slots on those maps should be set to 'camping'?)


as it is in retail WF (these maps a much more daring)
Re: the most stupid ai-tactics[message #257245] Fri, 23 July 2010 07:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
usrbid

 
Messages:1580
Registered:December 2008
smeagol
A possible solution could be to activate this behaviour only when the enemy is defending a sector (though it is still exploitable if you know where the switch is and can reach it quietly before it gets activated).


Hi Smeagol, This is exactly what I do on your WF maps of Alma. There is one sector with warehouses with crates with lots of stuff. After some time the enemy decides to run to the lower left portion of the map to press the button to blow up everything in the warehouses.

So what I do is that I have one of my guys sneak all the way around the base and position him inside the building sort of in front of the switch. Usually the enemies come closer very slowly, enough for one per turn, which makes it easier to auto fire kill them (and keep the loot).


In the standard 1.13 map for the Alma shooting range the enemies try to reach the button, pretty normal. However they even try to reach the button when the enemies try to take the sector back, making this a pretty easy defense.


Re: the most stupid ai-tactics[message #257251] Fri, 23 July 2010 12:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smeagol

 
Messages:2713
Registered:June 2008
Location: Bremen, Germany
Dieter
smeagol
A possible solution could be to activate this behaviour only when the enemy is defending a sector (though it is still exploitable if you know where the switch is and can reach it quietly before it gets activated).


Hi Smeagol, This is exactly what I do on your WF maps of Alma. There is one sector with warehouses with crates with lots of stuff. After some time the enemy decides to run to the lower left portion of the map to press the button to blow up everything in the warehouses.

So what I do is that I have one of my guys sneak all the way around the base and position him inside the building sort of in front of the switch. Usually the enemies come closer very slowly, enough for one per turn, which makes it easier to auto fire kill them (and keep the loot).


In the standard 1.13 map for the Alma shooting range the enemies try to reach the button, pretty normal. However they even try to reach the button when the enemies try to take the sector back, making this a pretty easy defense.



Exactly my point. Had a discussion with headrock about this and it seems it could be rather difficult to teach the AI not to do it, as the enemies basically don't know what offense and defense are. So an easy solution, where the AI only tries to reach buttons on defense is not likely.


Re: the most stupid ai-tactics[message #257714] Wed, 28 July 2010 01:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Raktavijan

 
Messages:25
Registered:July 2010
Location: Finland
The most stupid tactic I've seen from the AI so far, must've been when I was attacking a random plot of desert close to Cambria. I came into the sector from the north and threw out a flare into roughly the middle of the map. Almost every enemy was standing there, just... standing there. Packing with me a few mortars and grenade launchers, that fight lasted maybe two minutes.
I've never ever had that happen before and I admit it could've been a fluke but damn.. O_O

-Raktavijan
Re: the most stupid ai-tactics[message #257835] Thu, 29 July 2010 02:32 Go to previous message
P.Val

 
Messages:80
Registered:May 2010
smeagol
Exactly my point. Had a discussion with headrock about this and it seems it could be rather difficult to teach the AI not to do it, as the enemies basically don't know what offense and defense are. So an easy solution, where the AI only tries to reach buttons on defense is not likely.

The enemies don't know it (I mean, don't have different strategies for it), but the game itself should. Enrico sends complaining mails if you don't attack for a few days, and the possibility to autoresolve is reserved for battles where you are defending... so it seems it should not be too hard to hack a solution without altering anything significantly.. the AI code is, however, the hardest to work with in the whole game, and nobody dares to touch it.
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