Home » SIRTECH CLASSICS » Jagged Alliance 2 » The A.I.M. Library » Queries for Chris Camfield
Queries for Chris Camfield[message #261493] Fri, 03 September 2010 19:29 Go to next message
lockie is currently offline lockie

 
Messages:3721
Registered:February 2006
Location: Scotland
Guys , anyone who might have any technical questions , or just queries in general about our much loved game , please feel free to post them here , Chris may give us some answers if he a) has time cool can remember anything past 2 weeks ago!

Don't expect miracles....... Smile

[Updated on: Sat, 07 November 2015 02:41] by Moderator

Report message to a moderator

Captain

Re: Queries for Chris Camfield[message #261682] Sun, 05 September 2010 22:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lockie is currently offline lockie

 
Messages:3721
Registered:February 2006
Location: Scotland
*bump* !!

Report message to a moderator

Captain

Re: Queries for Chris Camfield[message #261701] Mon, 06 September 2010 00:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
MikeThePro is currently offline MikeThePro

 
Messages:175
Registered:November 2007
Location: Bulgaria

K, obviously this topic requires attention.
What kind of technical questions?

Report message to a moderator

Staff Sergeant
Re: Queries for Chris Camfield[message #261774] Mon, 06 September 2010 20:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lockie is currently offline lockie

 
Messages:3721
Registered:February 2006
Location: Scotland
Modders asking why this and what if that , kinda stuff ?
Hey , maybe we're all smarter than the average bear booboo !

Report message to a moderator

Captain

Re: Queries for Chris Camfield[message #261797] Mon, 06 September 2010 22:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Chris Camfield is currently offline Chris Camfield

 
Messages:68
Registered:February 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
I worked on items, the bullet tracing code, pathfinding, and AI in JA2. Any questions there?

I very much doubt there are any item questions at this point Smile

[Updated on: Mon, 06 September 2010 22:30] by Moderator

Report message to a moderator

Corporal
Re: Queries for Chris Camfield[message #261805] Mon, 06 September 2010 22:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lockie is currently offline lockie

 
Messages:3721
Registered:February 2006
Location: Scotland
Quote:
and AI in JA2. Any questions there?


let yourself in for a busy time there , admitting to that Very Happy

Quote:
pathfinding,


Ditto !

First off , on the AI , off the top of your head , any ideas how to improve the enemy responses ?
On pathfinding , I really wish we could put the group in a formation , rather than single file .... Smile

Report message to a moderator

Captain

Re: Queries for Chris Camfield[message #261806] Mon, 06 September 2010 22:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Loucipher

 
Messages:157
Registered:October 2009
Then I guess it qualifies you to the "AI" part of the questions Smile First things first, however: thank you and all your colleagues at SirTech for creating this game in the first place.
(Yeah, I know that may be a cheap line... but that's what I feel is right at the moment).

Now that the pleasantries are concluded, there's a discussion on what might be an AI code glitch going on here. I guess no one would mind your comment there.

Report message to a moderator

Staff Sergeant
Re: Queries for Chris Camfield[message #261807] Mon, 06 September 2010 22:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lockie is currently offline lockie

 
Messages:3721
Registered:February 2006
Location: Scotland
Quote:
I worked on items,

Well , we have certainly upped the ante on the items , for sure !
But , anything you might have had an idea on and never implemented ?
The flamethrower is a perennial favourite here :welder:

The Russians have used an attack jeep with mounted MG , animation is poor though , also paratroop drops , actually those Russki's have added a lot of things.... clever devils..... :diabolical:

[Updated on: Mon, 06 September 2010 23:00] by Moderator

Report message to a moderator

Captain

Re: Queries for Chris Camfield[message #261816] Mon, 06 September 2010 23:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smeagol is currently offline smeagol

 
Messages:2705
Registered:June 2008
Location: Bremen, Germany
Chris Camfield
I worked on items, the bullet tracing code, pathfinding, and AI in JA2. Any questions there?

I very much doubt there are any item questions at this point Smile



Hey... there are actually a ton of item related questions...

Like:
What happened to the chainsaw?

What are those other gazillion unused tags that show up for cursors in the xml editor (like camera, surveillance camera...).

I think there is still a lot of potential hiding in JA2 for items to get added. Maybe you'd like to hop on the boat Smile

Report message to a moderator

Lieutenant

Re: Queries for Chris Camfield[message #261856] Tue, 07 September 2010 10:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GMV is currently offline GMV

 
Messages:79
Registered:August 2010
Location: The Netherlands
lockie
Quote:
I worked on items,

The flamethrower is a perennial favourite here

The Russians have used an attack jeep with mounted MG , animation is poor though , also paratroop drops , actually those Russki's have added a lot of things.... clever devils..... :diabolical:


Smeagol added a flamethrower. I am happily using it Smile Only unfortunate thing is they can just walk out of the fire and not be 'on fire'.

I have a question also concering a possible limit of JA2, as I am getting an itch to make this the 3rd game I mod. The question is: Is there a limit on the amount of NPC's that can be added and what controls this? I can understand for the AIM site, but seeing M.E.R.C. has individual pages can one not add new NPC's there (or old ones of course) or add some in Arulco?

offtopic: Paratroops? Jeep with MG? Which mods are those?

Report message to a moderator

Corporal
Re: Queries for Chris Camfield[message #261857] Tue, 07 September 2010 10:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3199
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
nightOps

yes there is a limit (170 r/npcs)

Report message to a moderator

Captain
Re: Queries for Chris Camfield[message #261858] Tue, 07 September 2010 11:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GMV is currently offline GMV

 
Messages:79
Registered:August 2010
Location: The Netherlands
Logisteric
nightOps

yes there is a limit (170 r/npcs)


Only NightOps? Too bad, along with the fact it is not 1.13 so can't be installed next to other mods (as I asked in another topic).

This 170, is this hard-coded? As said what controls this?
After all, in JA2 gold there are 174 entries according to what I read on an online publication of a file (which also showed me that I always missed rat, and that they removed 'eskimo').
I wonder what did 1.13 than do in order to 'bring back' Tex, Biggins, Stogie, and Gastion. For they do not state to have removed anyone, so what did they do in order to get this done.
Is it otherwise possible to add a second MercProfiles.xml file, in order to expand on this?

Report message to a moderator

Corporal
Re: Queries for Chris Camfield[message #261859] Tue, 07 September 2010 11:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3199
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
even with rat, tex etc ther are empty slots

http://cid-9fd6f7f2dd50a612.office.live.com/self.aspx/.Public/soundMachine%20beta06.zip

edith: surely it's hardcoded - if not there were already mods with more personnel

Report message to a moderator

Captain
Re: Queries for Chris Camfield[message #261864] Tue, 07 September 2010 11:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GMV is currently offline GMV

 
Messages:79
Registered:August 2010
Location: The Netherlands
Hm... than the last questions surrounding this idea (if this is indeed a no it will be impossible I reckon).

Smeagol said that he was told that without Gabby, Bobby and Rat the Crepitus don't appear. However, in a WF_SVN_AIMNAS game the Crepitus are gone anyways, as the weapon of the Crepitus Queen was used for the flame thrower, is it not possible to replace these people with other RPC's?

Another idea I had was to create one RPC that generates are Kingpin's assassins. They probably need to loose their voice and portait, a shame I know, but they could be than more numerous, attack in groups, and it frees up 4/5 slots for other RPC's...

In total that is 7/8 slots free. Meaning that you could bring back Gumpy, Bubba, Numb, Cougar, Buns, Malice and Clifford that were cut from the WF mod, and perhaps 1 or 2 more
(leaving out Pablo's replacement (the guys does nothing for game progress or anything - or is Bobby Ray shipment coupled to him being there?) and Skipper (though he may be removed already, did not see him))

P.s. what is the link for?

Report message to a moderator

Corporal
Re: Queries for Chris Camfield[message #261869] Tue, 07 September 2010 14:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3199
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
an excel, that is primaraly about voices, but can also serve as an overview of personnel

Report message to a moderator

Captain
Re: Queries for Chris Camfield[message #261888] Tue, 07 September 2010 17:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smeagol is currently offline smeagol

 
Messages:2705
Registered:June 2008
Location: Bremen, Germany
GMV
Hm... than the last questions surrounding this idea (if this is indeed a no it will be impossible I reckon).

Smeagol said that he was told that without Gabby, Bobby and Rat the Crepitus don't appear. However, in a WF_SVN_AIMNAS game the Crepitus are gone anyways, as the weapon of the Crepitus Queen was used for the flame thrower, is it not possible to replace these people with other RPC's?

Another idea I had was to create one RPC that generates are Kingpin's assassins. They probably need to loose their voice and portait, a shame I know, but they could be than more numerous, attack in groups, and it frees up 4/5 slots for other RPC's...

In total that is 7/8 slots free. Meaning that you could bring back Gumpy, Bubba, Numb, Cougar, Buns, Malice and Clifford that were cut from the WF mod, and perhaps 1 or 2 more
(leaving out Pablo's replacement (the guys does nothing for game progress or anything - or is Bobby Ray shipment coupled to him being there?) and Skipper (though he may be removed already, did not see him))

P.s. what is the link for?



Dude... if it was that easy, to add the dumped mercs back in, I think I already would have forced someone to do it...

Report message to a moderator

Lieutenant

Re: Queries for Chris Camfield[message #261915] Tue, 07 September 2010 22:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GMV is currently offline GMV

 
Messages:79
Registered:August 2010
Location: The Netherlands
Sorry, it was just a thought for which I searched the grounds to see if that was possible. Apparently not. Jusst wanted to see if I could contribute.

Report message to a moderator

Corporal
Re: Queries for Chris Camfield[message #262836] Fri, 17 September 2010 07:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Chris Camfield is currently offline Chris Camfield

 
Messages:68
Registered:February 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Improving enemy responses... I'm not sure if you mean in a round-by-round basis or to improve the AI in general.

Couple of thoughts:

1) Maybe some things could be improved with more seeded information on the map. For instance (this is just a personal opinion) I've been playing JA1:DS and noticed how pretty much every map has some sort of point of interest. And with certain maps, ones which are bases or something, maybe you could have different locations and orders depending on whether the enemy know there's any danger (green status) or not. Like, there's an enemy who patrols the outside of the base, but once there's any alert, he should go inside and take position in the hallway. Or you could have enemies resting in a barracks who should move out and set up an ambush in a hallway.

1a) Maybe an "ambush" order type would act as stationary (and facing a certain direction?) until they actually spot the player, and then are allowed to move more freely.

None of the above helps much if the enemies are attacking, though.

2) Some sort of overall strategic sense was something that was always missing. Each enemy has their own set of information and then limits based on their orders. When an alert goes out, there's not even a tendancey for the enemies to group together for safety. And certainly not much sense of how the enemy might flank the player.


As far as making the characters move in a formation, I think that was something we always wanted. It can definitely be frustrating... again, playing JA1:DS, sometimes a character stays behind after a group move order because they couldn't path at all. Grr.

To be honest I can't remember exactly how the group movement worked.

I think I would just pick the currently selected character and assume they're going to be the leader of the formation. The other characters, rather than all pathing to the target location, should all be trying to maintain a location relative to the other character's position, as that character walks their path.

So, say you wanted just a straight line perpedicular to the direction of travel, and let's assume it's going straight up a nice open road. The selected character should have a path, and walk it, and then the next character should always be trying to move to the spot 1 to the left of that character, or 1 to the left of the tile they're walking to. The next person, 1 to the right. Then the next, 2 to the right.

I hope with modern computers it wouldn't be too expensive to constantly calculate paths. Logically it should also be possible for each character to have a path, parallel to the others in the formation, and then they try to pick points in the path to get to be in the correct spot in the formation.

[Updated on: Fri, 17 September 2010 07:34] by Moderator

Report message to a moderator

Corporal
Re: Queries for Chris Camfield[message #262877] Fri, 17 September 2010 18:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lockie is currently offline lockie

 
Messages:3721
Registered:February 2006
Location: Scotland
Quote:
maybe you could have different locations and orders depending on whether the enemy know there's any danger (green status) or not.


I've fancied the idea of actually seeing the 'alert' status of D's troops as a visible bar with red for high alert, amber for enemy suspicious and green for safe .

Quote:
think I would just pick the currently selected character and assume they're going to be the leader of the formation. The other characters, rather than all pathing to the target location, should all be trying to maintain a location relative to the other character's position, as that character walks their path.

So, say you wanted just a straight line perpedicular to the direction of travel, and let's assume it's going straight up a nice open road. The selected character should have a path, and walk it, and then the next character should always be trying to move to the spot 1 to the left of that character, or 1 to the left of the tile they're walking to. The next person, 1 to the right. Then the next, 2 to the right.

I hope with modern computers it wouldn't be too expensive to constantly calculate paths. Logically it should also be possible for each character to have a path, parallel to the others in the formation, and then they try to pick points in the path to get to be in the correct spot in the formation.


Exactly ! with skirmish formation, pathfinder and battle formations too .

Coders , get your asses in gear and make this happen ........ :rulez:

Report message to a moderator

Captain

Re: Queries for Chris Camfield[message #262893] Fri, 17 September 2010 21:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
public1983 is currently offline public1983

 
Messages:125
Registered:February 2006

Well I think the greatest strength of Jagged Alliance is the turn based concept. It makes it possible that an unqualified player draws qualified decisions in a very detailed tactical combat setting. Only this way you have the time it takes. You can walk in formation perfectly fine in turn based. If you are talking about an extension of the real time mode, I am against it. If you want real-time combat, it takes training of the player by repetition under tension. Of course this could be coded, but it would disallow for the demand to finish the same kind of detailed campaign we are used to in the same game.

My two cents. Might sound a bit thin-skinned. Anyways.

Report message to a moderator

Sergeant
Re: Queries for Chris Camfield[message #262900] Fri, 17 September 2010 21:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lockie is currently offline lockie

 
Messages:3721
Registered:February 2006
Location: Scotland
Quote:
You can walk in formation perfectly fine in turn based.


In turn based moves , why would you be walking in formation ? The battle would be on .

Quote:
If you are talking about an extension of the real time mode, I am against it. If you want real-time combat, it takes training of the player by repetition under tension


Nope and nope ! Only when scouting / heading to a fight , pre - enemy contact , movement the same as now , but only , not in a straight line ! Then when enemy spotted , back , as usual , to turn based moves .

Report message to a moderator

Captain

Re: Queries for Chris Camfield[message #262906] Fri, 17 September 2010 22:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
public1983 is currently offline public1983

 
Messages:125
Registered:February 2006

Well, you can simulate the turn based convenience by doing small steps, hitting the space bar for selection rotation. A new feature would only make this faster in game time. This rather matters, when the enemy is alerted and not when scouting or before battle.

Edit: I do not want to interfere with a creative process. The code is open. The gameplay is there to anyone who wants it a different way. So far I just wanted to say that I do not see the improvement. Nobody forces me to play with modifications I do not like.

[Updated on: Fri, 17 September 2010 23:32] by Moderator

Report message to a moderator

Sergeant
Re: Queries for Chris Camfield[message #262916] Sat, 18 September 2010 00:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Loucipher

 
Messages:157
Registered:October 2009
Nice comments from Chris and other participants.

Re 1. I don't know how this was coded actually, but the documentation of the Map Editor mentions various "orders" you can give the A.I. soldiers placed on map. There are "alert levels" as well, in which case A.I. behaviour gets modified.
I wonder whether or not it could be possible to code certain paths (like, patrol routes, or simply a "go there and defend/ambush/whatnot that spot" type of route) with a condition that an alarm has to be sounded for the particular order to be executed - and if possible, what would be the best route to take.
Chris, if you were coding any of this, I'd appreciate your input.

Re 2. Some sort of tactical cooperation between particular A.I. troops would be always welcome, and I gather the "order" modes available in the editor were a general shot in that very direction. Maybe all it takes to "fix" A.I. behaviour is to rephrase/optimize the "call for aid" routine, and give the enemy more room in general? I remember that giving the A.I. an ability to climb roofs (one of the features enabled in 1.13) boosted the difficulty a few notches up all by itself. Headrock's Suppression fix made the A.I. use suppression fire as a valid tactic - again, this added to realism and difficulty. Why not go further down this route?
The patching fix might correct the problem above, and also give merc groups the ability to "formation move" anytime it's toggled on (but not in turn-based combat). I have an idea that such a toggle would make the "designated" merc a formation leader, the others just copying his path, only offset respective to their positions. I don't know how "predefined" formations could be coded in, however, and what would they be (line, wedge, whatever). Personally, I never missed that concept much in JA2 - with such a perspective on combat, formations simply don't matter, you go where and when you need to be.

Report message to a moderator

Staff Sergeant
Re: Queries for Chris Camfield[message #262929] Sat, 18 September 2010 00:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lockie is currently offline lockie

 
Messages:3721
Registered:February 2006
Location: Scotland
Quote:
I don't know how "predefined" formations could be coded in, however, and what would they be (line, wedge, whatever). Personally, I never missed that concept much in JA2 - with such a perspective on combat, formations simply don't matter, you go where and when you need to be.


It's just so annoying to have 'straight line' mercs blindly following each other , single file !
At least with a wedge , skirmish line it's a tad more realistic along with easier 'spotting of enemy' for a group .

And I'd still like to be aware of the enemies alert status .

Report message to a moderator

Captain

Re: Queries for Chris Camfield[message #262975] Sat, 18 September 2010 23:55 Go to previous message
Loucipher

 
Messages:157
Registered:October 2009
I don't think disclosing the enemy's alert status is a wise idea. Normally, you don't get such information up front - you need to draw conclusions from enemy actions and other visible/audible/obvious signs.
As for formations, I think just "keep current formation" toggle would do the trick of moving a group of mercs in a more dispersed pattern, instead of grouping them in one big fat group of targets.

Report message to a moderator

Staff Sergeant
Previous Topic: What Mods would you recommend?
Next Topic: Drassan Zerg Rush?!
Goto Forum:
  


Current Time: Tue Apr 16 07:30:03 GMT+3 2024

Total time taken to generate the page: 0.01805 seconds