Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » v1.13 Modding, Customising, Editing » v1.13 Modding, Customising, Editing » Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?
Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #262439] Mon, 13 September 2010 12:42 Go to next message
DarkGlass
Messages:8
Registered:August 2010
So I noticed some Mercs were missing from 1.13, such as Snake and others.

I was wondering if there was a way to get those Mercs back in the game and have a little more choice and options when hiring. I've been looking around some of the files but with no success.
By the way, does anyone know why some mercs were removed in 1.13 to begin with? I see this more as a set back than an improvement so I'm wondering why it happened.
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #262440] Mon, 13 September 2010 12:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3474
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
no merc was removed in 1.13 - wtf is snake - someone from ja1? - in fact four guys from ub (tex, biggins, gaston and stoogie) were added.

as long as there is no option to increase the rooster, all those bring-back-(insert name here)-threads simply take away the chance to learn to know and loath new personnel - why do so many guys want to deprive modders of one of the funniest parts of modding = inventing new personnel?

sorry if you run into an 'i hate the idea of the great unified mod'-rant Wink
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #262442] Mon, 13 September 2010 13:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RoWa21

 
Messages:2048
Registered:October 2005
Location: Austria
@DarkGlass: Snake is from JA1 and not JA2. No merc were removed, instead new merc were added (Tex, ...)


Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #262443] Mon, 13 September 2010 13:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kazuya

 
Messages:222
Registered:January 2009
DarkGlass
By the way, does anyone know why some mercs were removed in 1.13 to begin with? I see this more as a set back than an improvement so I'm wondering why it happened.
They weren't removed in 1.13. The JA2 developers threw them out. The ingame AIM website has a special page dedicated to the now missing AIM members.

DarkGlass
So I noticed some Mercs were missing from 1.13, such as Snake and others.

I was wondering if there was a way to get those Mercs back in the game and have a little more choice and options when hiring. I've been looking around some of the files but with no success.
There are black and white portraits of them in 56x50. They can be used to create 48x43 versions. But to get fully working portraits is more work than it seems, because you need to get the colours right and you need to produce the bigface picture. A while ago, I tried to make new portraits of those mercs:
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/1388/panelv.png

I played JA1 only once and I didn't get far, so I don't remember if I got the colours for Mouse and Reuban right (I never used those mercs). The main problem are the speechfiles though. The mercs in JA2 have alot more to say now than they had back in JA1.
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #262444] Mon, 13 September 2010 14:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DarkGlass
Messages:8
Registered:August 2010
Oh my bad. It seems I confused the alumni page with the hiring page.
I played only 2 hours on the original before moving on to 1.13 and I thought I remembered those mercs as being hirable in the original. I guess I was browsing through the Alumni in the original JA2 and did not realize the mercs could not be hired.

Regardless, converting those mercs from JA1 to JA2 seems like something interesting to do. I might give it a try. I'm not sure I'll manage though; I'm not a modder at all but then again I did learn quickly how to mod some other games. No mod exists that already does that, right?
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #262446] Mon, 13 September 2010 15:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Burzmali

 
Messages:240
Registered:March 2007
Location: Estonia
i sometimes play Urban Chaos just to meet my old friends Skitz, Reuban and Postie again Cool
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #262448] Mon, 13 September 2010 15:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kazuya

 
Messages:222
Registered:January 2009
DarkGlass
No mod exists that already does that, right?

There are mods that bring some of the old mercenaries back. I think "Biohazard" has some in them. But to be honest, their quality is usually not good. You can clearly see that they don't belong to the original JA2 cast.
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #262461] Mon, 13 September 2010 19:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sorca_2

 
Messages:206
Registered:September 2010
Location: California, USA
I was interested by this idea, so I started a poll here to gauge interest:

http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=262460&#Post262460
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #262511] Tue, 14 September 2010 03:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Scheinworld

 
Messages:908
Registered:December 2007
Location: Baltic Sea, Germany
Hello,

Kazuya
There are black and white portraits of them in 56x50. They can be used to create 48x43 versions. But to get fully working portraits is more work than it seems, because you need to get the colours right and you need to produce the bigface picture. A while ago, I tried to make new portraits of those mercs:
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/1388/panelv.png


@ Kazuya: That looks really promising! Good "JA2 style" and much better quality than in the Biohazard mod. Have you finished some veteran faces yet and/or you aren't coincidentally in the mood for creating some legend faces for JA2 like Snake, Hector, Vinny etc.? Very Happy

Kazuya
The main problem are the speechfiles though. The mercs in JA2 have alot more to say now than they had back in JA1.


From my point of view the faces are the major problem Wink Seriously you are right, the difficulty with the speech files lies in the fact that in JA1 the mercenaries have only ca. 60 usable speech files, but in JA2 you need ca. 110 of them suitable for each context. I can say that creating a complete voice pack for a character from original JA1/DG speech file data is definitely doable, but a very time-consuming process if it should sound well. All things considered a nice challenge!


DarkGlass
Regardless, converting those mercs from JA1 to JA2 seems like something interesting to do. I might give it a try. I'm not sure I'll manage though; I'm not a modder at all but then again I did learn quickly how to mod some other games. No mod exists that already does that, right?


@ DarkGlass: Maybe the following link and juppsen's "New Mercenaries" mod you'll find there piques your interest? Also it is a good example that it is possible not only for "modding experts" whatever that means. Most important is you enjoy it! Smile

http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=218076#Post218109


Best regards; Schein


Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #262555] Tue, 14 September 2010 17:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DarkGlass
Messages:8
Registered:August 2010
Thanks for all the info and links guys.
But I need to emphasize that if I try modding the JA1 mercs back, I would do it mostly for myself, like a challenge. I would of course make the mod available to everyone if I can complete it (but I must say I have doubts, so please don't even consider that I am currently working on it and don't expect anything to be released).

Anyway, I'm going to try externalizing prof.dat to increase the max number of free slots for adding mercs. If I could do at least that I would be happy (I know it's probably too hard for me, but just trying sounds fun).
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #262556] Tue, 14 September 2010 17:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RoWa21

 
Messages:2048
Registered:October 2005
Location: Austria
A lot of data from prof.dat is already externalized into XML. Its already available with 1.13.


Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #262560] Tue, 14 September 2010 18:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sorca_2

 
Messages:206
Registered:September 2010
Location: California, USA
I PM'd you DarkGlass; it looks like we have similar interests in bringing back JA1 mercs. The poll I linked above is picking up steam after some initial speedbumps. Friendly warning: for whatever reason, I found out that this is a touchy subject on this board.
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #262561] Tue, 14 September 2010 18:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3474
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
externalisation of prof.dat got nothing to do with the 170-personnel-limit and whoever seriously breaks that will be my hero (and the hero of every modder)
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #262630] Wed, 15 September 2010 02:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kazuya

 
Messages:222
Registered:January 2009
Thanks to RoWa21, I had a look at a few original JA1 portraits. I fiddled a little bit with the pictures. The following picture is a mock up, I just took ascreenshot of the AIM webpage and pasted in the two portraits. The new "Hitman" is the new Leon portrait, that I created. I started with the grayscale alumni picture and recoloured it. I also tweaked some pixels here and there and smoothened everything up. For comparision purposes, I decided to take the original JA1 portrait of Leon, removed the background, scaled it to 48x43 and pasted it over Malice.
http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/6753/aimoverview2.png

Here a zoomed in version one pixel in original picture is three pixel wide and three pixel high:
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/1084/leoncomparison.png

For some odd reason the original JA1 portraits use even less colours than the JA2 pictures, so rescaling and animating them won't do the trick (unless you settle for really shitty quality). The original Leon for example uses only 80 colours. Snake only 32! And that includes the background!

But before I go on, I'd like to have some feedback. As you see, I have to deviate from the original colours, to prevent the "new old" portraits from sticking out too much. Is Leons new skin colour okay? How close should I try to stick to the original colours? For example: Leons hair and beard has a slight greenish tint. Should I keep that?
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #262632] Wed, 15 September 2010 02:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gorro der Grüne

 
Messages:1570
Registered:March 2009
Location: Broadwurschd-City
as close as possible but in JA2 quality
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #262644] Wed, 15 September 2010 07:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Friendly Fire

 
Messages:76
Registered:January 2006
If we could configure in the .ini what mercenaries will appear in the recruitment rosters of the campaign we are about to play it would not be necessary to overcome the 170 limit.
We could have, for example, 200 possible mercs and have to decide which ones would be part of the campaign because there would not be 200 available slots in AIM and MERC rosters.
There are mercs I don't like and never use anyway and I would gladly exchange them for old friends from JA1 and DG even if their graphics and soundfiles are inferior.
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #262655] Wed, 15 September 2010 10:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3474
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
@ kazuya:

would be nice if you moved them both to grunty and other 'light kauskassians' and enlarge the lot

[Updated on: Wed, 15 September 2010 10:26] by Moderator

Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #262696] Wed, 15 September 2010 18:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sorca_2

 
Messages:206
Registered:September 2010
Location: California, USA
Friendly Fire
There are mercs I don't like and never use anyway and I would gladly exchange them for old friends from JA1 and DG even if their graphics and soundfiles are inferior.

That's exactly what I was thinking as well. Ideally, once we have a few old mercs worth implementing, if we still can't overcome the limit, I thought about a mod where you basically pick which JA2 mercs you would like to sub out for new/old ones. Subbing Flo for Snake wouldn't be a difficult choice for me, for example.
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #262699] Wed, 15 September 2010 18:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gorro der Grüne

 
Messages:1570
Registered:March 2009
Location: Broadwurschd-City
Flo has a hardcoded script.
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #262714] Wed, 15 September 2010 22:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3474
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
all m*e*r*c and a.i.m. mercs are hardcoded - most of them can be overwritten without problems (new speechfiles and etds + some work in proedit or profex) but flo will keep her bookkeeper-background (10% at tony's) and nails his vest under any circumstances. and you cannot split the two larrys.
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #262719] Wed, 15 September 2010 23:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Scheinworld

 
Messages:908
Registered:December 2007
Location: Baltic Sea, Germany
Hallo Kazuya,

You are definitely on the right track with the new Leon face you created! :ok:

Okay, here are my two cents regarding your points:

Kazuya
Is Leons new skin colour okay?


In my opinion and when I compare his face with the others in JA2 I would say his skin is a little bit "too pink". I would suggest a spark more of "brownness" similar to your older self created faces especially from Reuban you posted above. Finally Col. Leon Roachburn is a hardcore outdoor mercenary and not a baby like Biff Wink

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/3118/leondg.jpg


Kazuya
How close should I try to stick to the original colours? For example: Leons hair and beard has a slight greenish tint. Should I keep that?


I think it's absolutely not important that you try to stick to the original colours from JA1/DG. Please compare the Malice face in JA2 and his original in DG for example, which are relatively unrelated in many details:

http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/3184/maliceja2.jpghttp://img827.imageshack.us/img827/3719/malicedg2.jpg


To answer your question, I wouldn't keep the greenish tint. His hair and beard should look more naturally with higher fineness if possible and a little bit more greying and aging maybe?

In ideal case new faces for JA2 should look like original ones from JA2 developers. That should be the standard to reach, but of course that's just my personal preference and I respect every effort for our game.

I hope you'll continue your great work! I like it very much! Smile


Best regards; Schein


Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #262725] Thu, 16 September 2010 00:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RoWa21

 
Messages:2048
Registered:October 2005
Location: Austria
@Kazuya: Leon looks quite good so far.

I can agree with Scheinworld on everything he pointed out. The most important point is, that the portraits should have the JA2 styling. Compared to the exiting ones, they should have the same styling as close as possible.

Skin color is a little to pink. Maybe change it to something like Barry's skin color.

It does not matter if you need to change the color a little bit or do some pixel rework.

[Updated on: Thu, 16 September 2010 00:22] by Moderator



Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #262782] Thu, 16 September 2010 19:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Friendly Fire

 
Messages:76
Registered:January 2006
Well, let the non-overwritable mercs stay and make the others optional.
That should give a fair amount of room to play, it is not as if we had a multitude of alternate characters anyway.
Even a dozen or so of switchable mercs would be a vey appreciated improvement.
Although there ARE quite a few characters floating around in different mods, some of them quite acceptable in quality, others more open to improvement; they are just not easy to borrow.
If the only problem with Flo is her 10% discount at Tony's, it is something I think many can live with.
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #262814] Thu, 16 September 2010 23:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sorca_2

 
Messages:206
Registered:September 2010
Location: California, USA
Does anyone have a file of JA1/DG mercenary pics and/or sound files?
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #262878] Fri, 17 September 2010 18:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lockie

 
Messages:3968
Registered:February 2006
Location: Scotland
Very probably Scheinworld has . Pm him .


Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #262881] Fri, 17 September 2010 19:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Syrinx

 
Messages:42
Registered:March 2007
Location: Sweden
I checked out the links provided by Kazuya Sheinworld .

Quote:
New Mercenaries 1.0

1. Features
"New Mercenaries" f

[Updated on: Fri, 17 September 2010 22:30] by Moderator

Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #262895] Fri, 17 September 2010 21:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kazuya

 
Messages:222
Registered:January 2009
Syrinx
I checked out the links provided by Kazuya.

What? Damned, did I get shitfaced again and forgot what I did in the last 48 hours? If I did, and if it involves underage girls, I swear that she said she was 18. But for now my official version is, that I don't know what you are talking about.
All I remember is working on the Leon portrait.
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/6561/leont.png

Syrinx

Quote:
New Mercenaries 1.0

1. Features
"New Mercenaries" f
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #262899] Fri, 17 September 2010 21:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lockie

 
Messages:3968
Registered:February 2006
Location: Scotland
Quote:
What? Damned, did I get shitfaced again and forgot what I did in the last 48 hours? If I did, and if it involves underage girls, I swear that she said she was 18. But for now my official version is, that I don't know what you are talking about.
All I remember is working on the Leon portrait.


It was Sheinworld of course ,who provided the links, some people cannot even get the source right !

Stay away from underage girls , you'll go to jail !!


Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #262903] Fri, 17 September 2010 22:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Syrinx

 
Messages:42
Registered:March 2007
Location: Sweden
Sheinworld, yes - that
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #262908] Fri, 17 September 2010 23:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kazuya

 
Messages:222
Registered:January 2009
Syrinx
Is the hireable Mike mod up to the
standards of any of you? Mike is another character I
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #262910] Fri, 17 September 2010 23:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Syrinx

 
Messages:42
Registered:March 2007
Location: Sweden
Thanks, I
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #262912] Fri, 17 September 2010 23:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sorca_2

 
Messages:206
Registered:September 2010
Location: California, USA
Hey guys, thought you'd get a kick out of this. Last night I tried messing around with making a "bigface" (I think that's what they call it... roughly 106x122) for Needle from his alumni picture. I knew it would only be grayscale, but I thought it'd be good practice. I gave him a doctor's labcoat and put the "body lockers" from a morgue in the background. All in all it looked relatively OK, but when put head-to-head (PUN!) with some of the JA2 pics, it seemed like the two things that made the alumni pic seem inferior were the lighting and shadows--perhaps emphasized by grayscaling them.

I'm more of an editor than an artist, so this is going to be tough!

EDIT: I should say it's going to be tough because I'm a perfectionist and anything less than JA2 quality won't work for me. Resizing it to make a giant pixelated head isn't tough.
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #262914] Fri, 17 September 2010 23:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3474
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
if you want to know what you did wrong, you need to ...

1. show the pic
2. say what programm(s) you used
3. specify what you actually did

... as long as it is totally obvious from the pic you may perhaps get arround no 2+3
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #262919] Sat, 18 September 2010 00:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sorca_2

 
Messages:206
Registered:September 2010
Location: California, USA
Logisteric
if you want to know what you did wrong, you need to ...

Yeah I get it, and I'd like some feedback at some point, but I'm away from my home computer right now. Besides, I didn't think it was "worthy" of being posted anyway in my opinion. I'm not worried that I did anything wrong necessarliy, it just needs more work.

As an aside, I contemplated trying the opposite--instead of trying to make the cartoony picture look more realistic, take a real picture and try to make it look cartoony using the features of the old/alumni pictures. Maybe I can find a public domain mugshot database somewhere? I'll have to look into that later.
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #263054] Mon, 20 September 2010 01:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kazuya

 
Messages:222
Registered:January 2009
Colonel Leon Roachburn is ready for duty. I did a shitload of pixelwork and I must say, that I'm not satisfied with the outcome, but at least the eye-cancer risk has been reduced. I didn't get everything working as I intended and during the process I made alot of decisions, which I later regreted.
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/9540/bigface.png
http://www.mediafire.com/?r4h7k1ikjjevc4b

Feedback is always welcome.
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #263065] Mon, 20 September 2010 09:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sorca_2

 
Messages:206
Registered:September 2010
Location: California, USA
Looking good, Kaz! Your shadow work definitely gave him some depth--the original files look really flat. Here's the Needle "sketch" I was messing with before. I gave him a lab coat and put him in a morgue, like his profile says. I even tried to give him a lazy eye in the second one. Again, these are just sketch-quality and are for entertainment purposes only. I still need the color files before I make a more serious attempt.

http://img696.imageshack.us/i/bigneedle2.jpg/
http://img32.imageshack.us/i/bigneedle2lazy.jpg/
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #263068] Mon, 20 September 2010 10:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kazuya

 
Messages:222
Registered:January 2009
sorca_2
Looking good, Kaz! Your shadow work definitely gave him some depth--the original files look really flat. Here's the Needle "sketch" I was messing with before. I gave him a lab coat and put him in a morgue, like his profile says. I even tried to give him a lazy eye in the second one. Again, these are just sketch-quality and are for entertainment purposes only.

Seems quite okay so far. One thing though: If you save your face files, do not use jpg. Or use at least the lossless mode, because you may run into serious trouble later. Those artifacts can screw up everything when you have to reduce the colours. Personally, I use png. But every lossless format will do.

sorca_2
I still need the color files before I make a more serious attempt.

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/9744/needlel.png
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #263069] Mon, 20 September 2010 10:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RoWa21

 
Messages:2048
Registered:October 2005
Location: Austria
Kazuya
Colonel Leon Roachburn is ready for duty. I did a shitload of pixelwork and I must say, that I'm not satisfied with the outcome, but at least the eye-cancer risk has been reduced. I didn't get everything working as I intended and during the process I made alot of decisions, which I later regreted.
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/9540/bigface.png
http://www.mediafire.com/?r4h7k1ikjjevc4b

Feedback is always welcome.


Really nice work. Like what you did with Leon. If you need more JA1/Deadly Games faces, you know what to do Smile


Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #263072] Mon, 20 September 2010 11:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kazuya

 
Messages:222
Registered:January 2009
RoWa21
Really nice work. Like what you did with Leon. If you need more JA1/Deadly Games faces, you know what to do Smile
Yeah, I take a look at the panel of mercenaries from Deadly Games, that I just finished Wink
http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/9918/aimdg1.png

But I appreciate your offer. Very Happy
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #263096] Mon, 20 September 2010 18:58 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
sorca_2

 
Messages:206
Registered:September 2010
Location: California, USA
Kazuya
One thing though: If you save your face files, do not use jpg. Or use at least the lossless mode, because you may run into serious trouble later. Those artifacts can screw up everything when you have to reduce the colours. Personally, I use png. But every lossless format will do.

Actually I have the originals in .PSD with Photoshop, but I converted these ones to JPG for web-friendliness purposes. Thanks for the tip, though! Also, thanks for the color pics--I'll mess around some more with those now. I thought he had an earring, but I couldn't be sure with the grayscale picture, heh.
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