Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » v1.13 Modding, Customising, Editing » v1.13 Modding, Customising, Editing » Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #263128] Mon, 20 September 2010 23:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kazuya

 
Messages:222
Registered:January 2009
Ladies and Gentlemen, please make sure that your hedge trimmer is fully loaded and keep at least one spare battery ready, because Reuban is back in town.
http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/9540/bigface.png
http://www.mediafire.com/?ak9ecuuivskzrw6
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #263130] Mon, 20 September 2010 23:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sorca_2

 
Messages:206
Registered:September 2010
Location: California, USA
You did a great job of capturing that "creepy guy I'd never let near my children" look. Very Happy
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #263132] Mon, 20 September 2010 23:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3498
Registered:December 2008
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reuban is a lot better than col. roachburn
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #263133] Tue, 21 September 2010 00:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gorro der Grüne

 
Messages:1569
Registered:March 2009
Location: Broadwurschd-City
Reuban is brilliant , You should perform Your newly acquired skills on the Collonel.

Der Hintergrund von Reuban ist zu bunt
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #263135] Tue, 21 September 2010 00:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
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Registered:December 2008
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nope, think about where you actually see that pic
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #263136] Tue, 21 September 2010 00:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gorro der Grüne

 
Messages:1569
Registered:March 2009
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Which of my three statements are You neglecting

[Updated on: Tue, 21 September 2010 00:30] by Moderator

Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #263139] Tue, 21 September 2010 00:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3498
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
obviously the one that has sth to do with where you see it, elliott

hint1: whether katzuya's work is brilliant has got nothing to do with that
hint2: whether col. roachburn should be redone equally not
hint3: less booze
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #263146] Tue, 21 September 2010 05:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Friendly Fire

 
Messages:76
Registered:January 2006
There was a functional hedgetrimmer in Deadly Games, and a chainsaw too; you could even fell trees with it (and kill people, of course).
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #263153] Tue, 21 September 2010 09:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sorca_2

 
Messages:206
Registered:September 2010
Location: California, USA
Okay, here's where I stopped today. The original is really flat, so I tried to work on highlights and shadows to make it look more 3D (and make him look a little older). I went ahead with the lazy eye, and I left his earring in for now, I guess.

Before:
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/2996/smallneedlecolor.png

After:
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/2751/bigneedle5.png
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #263154] Tue, 21 September 2010 10:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RoWa21

 
Messages:2046
Registered:October 2005
Location: Austria
@scorca_2: Nice work, you did a good job. Nice JA2 style.


Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #263155] Tue, 21 September 2010 10:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RoWa21

 
Messages:2046
Registered:October 2005
Location: Austria
Kazuya
Ladies and Gentlemen, please make sure that your hedge trimmer is fully loaded and keep at least one spare battery ready, because Reuban is back in town.
http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/9540/bigface.png
http://www.mediafire.com/?ak9ecuuivskzrw6


Excellent work.

EDIT: Is Reuban standing before the "Hornbach" market? That fits well Smile

[Updated on: Tue, 21 September 2010 10:11] by Moderator



Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #263234] Wed, 22 September 2010 04:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sorca_2

 
Messages:206
Registered:September 2010
Location: California, USA
RoWa21
@scorca_2: Nice work, you did a good job. Nice JA2 style.

Thanks! If anyone has any ideas how to improve it, please let me know. I have a hard time knowing when something I've worked on like that is "done"... I feel like I could work on that tiny picture for days.
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #263256] Wed, 22 September 2010 14:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kazuya

 
Messages:222
Registered:January 2009
RoWa21
EDIT: Is Reuban standing before the "Hornbach" market? That fits well Smile

Yes, he is. :whistle:

sorca_2
Thanks! If anyone has any ideas how to improve it, please let me know.

Do you adjust the colours of the existing picture, or do you grayscale it and recolour it from scratch? I've got the feeling that you used the first method. Personally, I find the later method to be much more effective. In the lighter areas of his skin, there seems to be some orange glow like in the original picture.

Rumors about Vinnys death have been greatly exagerated.
http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/9540/bigface.png
http://www.mediafire.com/?uwafiug8dcoazu8

Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #263257] Wed, 22 September 2010 14:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
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Registered:December 2008
Location: B
vinny's head seems to be too much to the right on his neck - otherwise he's great
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #263261] Wed, 22 September 2010 14:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kazuya

 
Messages:222
Registered:January 2009
Logisteric
vinny's head seems to be too much to the right on his neck - otherwise he's great

http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/5245/headneck.png
As you can see, I didn't alter the head position. It's like in the original picture

[Updated on: Wed, 22 September 2010 14:55] by Moderator

Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #263265] Wed, 22 September 2010 16:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3498
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
okay then it's the iorigal pic - i still think it should be more to the left
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #263272] Wed, 22 September 2010 18:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sorca_2

 
Messages:206
Registered:September 2010
Location: California, USA
I think his neck is centered fine--I think Logi's problem may just be an optical illusion because the left side of his neck (from his POV) is shadowed by the jacket's collar and the right side isn't, so it might give the impression that his head is floating on that side. :headscratch:
If you felt like "fixing" it, instead of moving his head, you could try brightening that area a little--I wonder if that would solve it for him or at least help us see what he's talking about better.

Actually, if anything, I would say that his neck could be shortened a little, but that's probably just another illusion from his tall collar. This one's tricky!

[quote:Kazuya]Do you adjust the colours of the existing picture, or do you grayscale it and recolour it from scratch? I've got the feeling that you used the first method. Personally, I find the later method to be much more effective. In the lighter areas of his skin, there seems to be some orange glow like in the original picture.[/quote]
Thanks for the advice, you're correct. I've never tried the second way, but now I want to try. I'm not sure where I would start... do you start with high tones and go down, start with low tones and go up, or start with mid tones and go off of that? After you've recolored, do you make adjustments, or do you try to get the colors right from the start?

I had a really hard time coming up with a skin tone for Needle... I can't even figure out what ethnicity he's supposed to be! Maybe I'll have to check his alumni file again.

[Updated on: Wed, 22 September 2010 18:52] by Moderator

Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #263273] Wed, 22 September 2010 18:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RoWa21

 
Messages:2046
Registered:October 2005
Location: Austria
Kazuya
RoWa21
EDIT: Is Reuban standing before the "Hornbach" market? That fits well Smile

Yes, he is. :whistle:

sorca_2
Thanks! If anyone has any ideas how to improve it, please let me know.

Do you adjust the colours of the existing picture, or do you grayscale it and recolour it from scratch? I've got the feeling that you used the first method. Personally, I find the later method to be much more effective. In the lighter areas of his skin, there seems to be some orange glow like in the original picture.

Rumors about Vinnys death have been greatly exagerated.
http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/9540/bigface.png
http://www.mediafire.com/?uwafiug8dcoazu8



Looks very good. Maybe you could lighten the left side of the background a little bit, so his hair is more visible.


Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #263280] Wed, 22 September 2010 19:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kazuya

 
Messages:222
Registered:January 2009
@sorca: After I grayscale the portrait, I usually brightern up the light areas and blur from there to the darker areas (but keep in mid thee "natrual flow" of the face structure). It all depends on how the grayscale picture looks like. Sometimes it is usefull to play with the contrast and saturation, sometimes the portrait is good like it is. It's not really an exact sience, it's art. Wink

This is for example what my current work on Postie looks like:
http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/9541/postiegrayscale.png
I haven't "upgraded" the right cheekbone yet, contrary to the left one. See the difference? It's subtle but noticable if you look at it. When I'm done with his face and his clothes, I switch to RGB and recolour everything. After that it's time for rescaling and animation. Last but not least, I put him in front of sume ugly background, reduce the colours and call it a day. Very Happy

According to my proportions study, the length of Vinnys neck is still in the normal range. Maybe it looks a bit lengthy, because I gave him a weakly developed trapezius muscle.
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/5827/krpertypen.jpg
if you weaken the trapezius, you can see how incredible long a human neck can be.



@RoWa21: Okay, I will redo that later. I have brightened up his neck a little bit and I also performed some ear surgery. Vinnys right ear looked somewhat ehrm... "strange" (but that's original).
http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/7650/unbenanntvinnyredone.png


Did anyone notice that I changed Reubans ears? I also did some small changes to his glasses.

[Updated on: Wed, 22 September 2010 19:52] by Moderator

Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #263281] Wed, 22 September 2010 20:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gorro der Grüne

 
Messages:1569
Registered:March 2009
Location: Broadwurschd-City
after all this years he might have purchased new ones (propably from Fielmann, ze next shop to Hornbach)
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #263286] Wed, 22 September 2010 20:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sorca_2

 
Messages:206
Registered:September 2010
Location: California, USA
Kazuya
@sorca: After I grayscale the portrait, I usually brightern up the light areas and blur from there to the darker areas (but keep in mid thee "natrual flow" of the face structure). It all depends on how the grayscale picture looks like. Sometimes it is usefull to play with the contrast and saturation, sometimes the portrait is good like it is. It's not really an exact sience, it's art. Wink

It's funny that you put it that way... that's exactly my problem--I'm a much better scientist than artist. That's why I started drilling you about the "process"--do you start with high tones and go down, how do I know what tone to pick, etc. If you were to say something artsy like "just go with whatever looks good to you" it would blow my mind. I will definitely try your techniques on Needle again from scratch and we'll see if it comes out any better in comparison.

Kazuya
I haven't "upgraded" the right cheekbone yet, contrary to the left one. See the difference? It's subtle but noticable if you look at it. When I'm done with his face and his clothes, I switch to RGB and recolour everything. After that it's time for rescaling and animation.

I was going to ask that as well--were you improving the original picture and then scaling it down, or did you scale it down and then mess with it? I don't even think the cheek difference is subtle--it looks much better, but maybe I notice it more because I was working on almost the same thing.

Kazuya
According to my proportions study, the length of Vinnys neck is still in the normal range. Maybe it looks a bit lengthy, because I gave him a weakly developed trapezius muscle.
if you weaken the trapezius, you can see how incredible long a human neck can be.

Yeah, I suspected as much--like I said, I think it's just an optical illusion because his collar is tall and is somewhat close to parallel with his neck, so it may tend to make his neck look longer than it really is. I guess it's probably more of a fashion issue for Vinny than an artistic issue for you. Razz
Kazuya
Did anyone notice that I changed Reubans ears? I also did some small changes to his glasses.

No, so that's a good sign!
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #263289] Wed, 22 September 2010 21:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kazuya

 
Messages:222
Registered:January 2009
sorca_2

It's funny that you put it that way... that's exactly my problem--I'm a much better scientist than artist. That's why I started drilling you about the "process"--do you start with high tones and go down, how do I know what tone to pick, etc. If you were to say something artsy like "just go with whatever looks good to you" it would blow my mind. I will definitely try your techniques on Needle again from scratch and we'll see if it comes out any better in comparison.

I usually pick a tone with the colour pipette. So if I need a dark skin part, I look for an area where the skin is dark and simply pick it up. If I need to work on the hair, I pick up a colour from there and so on. I lightened the cheekbones with the airbrush tool. Just pick white and use a small brush. Just put a little bit over it. Smoothen the area with the blur tool and your almost good to go.

sorca_2
I was going to ask that as well--were you improving the original picture and then scaling it down, or did you scale it down and then mess with it?

Scientific answer: If you are going to scale it down, do the work first and then the scaling.
If you are going to scale it up, do the scaling first and then work on it.

[Updated on: Wed, 22 September 2010 21:19] by Moderator

Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #263292] Wed, 22 September 2010 21:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sorca_2

 
Messages:206
Registered:September 2010
Location: California, USA
Art Skill +1 from training for me. May get a level up when I get home later--I'll post what I come up with.
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #263311] Thu, 23 September 2010 02:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kazuya

 
Messages:222
Registered:January 2009
Going postal with Postie is now possible.
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/9540/bigface.png
http://www.mediafire.com/?fjj9vfdz38ezn8e

That's it for now, good night.
P.S. I'll redo Vinny tomorrow.
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #263320] Thu, 23 September 2010 09:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sorca_2

 
Messages:206
Registered:September 2010
Location: California, USA
Ugh. Well, the good news is that I'm pretty happy with how the grayscale work turned out:

http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/507/smallneedlecolor3.png

The bad news is that, when I got to the recolor step, I could only come up with garbage like this:

http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/6770/smallneedlecolor4.png

What am I missing? How do you balance the colors to get those skin tones? Everything I did was either too red or too yellow no matter what I tried. I even tried sampling a color from Grizzly's pic and it still came out like that.
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #263323] Thu, 23 September 2010 11:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kazuya

 
Messages:222
Registered:January 2009
sorca_2
Ugh. Well, the good news is that I'm pretty happy with how the grayscale work turned out:

http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/507/smallneedlecolor3.png

The bad news is that, when I got to the recolor step, I could only come up with garbage like this:

http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/6770/smallneedlecolor4.png

What am I missing? How do you balance the colors to get those skin tones? Everything I did was either too red or too yellow no matter what I tried. I even tried sampling a color from Grizzly's pic and it still came out like that.

Well, your description of your steps, doesn't really allow me to pinpoint what went wrong. Sad
But I don't even understand, what exactly the problem is, because I took your grayscale picture and recoloured it, after about 5 minutes, this is what I've got:
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/2812/needlecolour.png
Pasting him into the aim_panel looks somewhat okay so far:
http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/7955/needleaim.png


The only advice that I can give you right now, is to be a bit mor careful with the blur tool. It's almost always better to blur twice with a slower rate than to blur once with a high rate. Be carefull, that you don't blur the contrasts away, just soften them up a little bit.

That's it for now, I got to go to work.
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #263423] Fri, 24 September 2010 01:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sorca_2

 
Messages:206
Registered:September 2010
Location: California, USA
Yeah, I knew the blur was a little more than I wanted--that was actually my second try with a lower setting after blurring too much the first time. I'll try it again.

The ears were really weird (like the merc you mentioned before), and I had trouble with the eyes. Blurring them didn't look right, but neither did leaving them pixelated. I ended up drawing on the eyes a little bit and thought they ended up decent enough, though they could use some color.

Mostly it's the recoloring that I was having trouble with. Notice how the second picture I posted isn't close to a skin tone? That was as close as I could get. What process do you use for recoloring? I tried looking up a few tutorials and didn't find anything especially useful. I messed with the RGB balance, hue, saturation, etc. but could never get to a skin tone that looked nice.

I think that second picture was +40 red and -40 blue... somewhere around there.
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #263519] Fri, 24 September 2010 22:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kazuya

 
Messages:222
Registered:January 2009
[quote=sorca_2]Yeah, I knew the blur was a little more than I wanted--that was actually my second try with a lower setting after blurring too much the first time. I'll try it again.

sorca_2
The ears were really weird (like the merc you mentioned before), and I had trouble with the eyes. Blurring them didn't look right, but neither did leaving them pixelated. I ended up drawing on the eyes a little bit and thought they ended up decent enough, though they could use some color.
Don't try to get everything right with the blur tool. That's usually not necessary. Check how the pixelated eyes look after you rescaled them. Most often, you only need to fix them a little bit with the paintbrush or airbrush tool.

sorca_2
Mostly it's the recoloring that I was having trouble with. Notice how the second picture I posted isn't close to a skin tone? That was as close as I could get. What process do you use for recoloring? I tried looking up a few tutorials and didn't find anything especially useful. I messed with the RGB balance, hue, saturation, etc. but could never get to a skin tone that looked nice.

I think that second picture was +40 red and -40 blue... somewhere around there.
Maybe we are talking here about different things. I've got the feeling that you mistake colour adjustment for recolouring. Those are two different things.
This is what my recolouring process looks like. (I was a bit in a hurry, so I forgot to remove the eyes from the recolouring area, but you will get the picture)
http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/123/recolourshow.png


The colour adjustment comes in handy, when you realize that your new skin colour is too bright or saturated, etc.
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #263529] Fri, 24 September 2010 23:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sorca_2

 
Messages:206
Registered:September 2010
Location: California, USA
Thanks for that awesome screenshot! Unfortunately, as I may have mentioned in another thread somewhere, about all I can do in German is order torpedo attacks, rig for silent running, etc. (from playing Silent Hunter III with the crew set to speak in German instead of silly default English). I think Google translator will work for me though, and I've done enough digital imaging to get the basic idea once I know a couple of the words. I'll give you an update later--didn't have any motivation to work on JA2 last night, unfortunately. Sad

Edit: So I figured out most of the words pretty quickly, except the most critical one, einfarben. Google said it was "monochrome", but I knew that couldn't be right. Checked some screenshots of the program and saw that the corresponding icon is "colorize", which obviously makes much more sense. I think I've got it now. I'll mess around some more tonight.

[Updated on: Fri, 24 September 2010 23:25] by Moderator

Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #263532] Fri, 24 September 2010 23:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3498
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
einfarbig = monochrome / einf
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #263549] Sat, 25 September 2010 09:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sorca_2

 
Messages:206
Registered:September 2010
Location: California, USA
Any better?

Before:
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/2996/smallneedlecolor.png

After:
http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6951/bigneedle6.png

Switched out his gold hoop for a more stylish diamond.
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #263557] Sat, 25 September 2010 15:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Czert

 
Messages:86
Registered:August 2007
for adding of old JA1 merc to Ja 2.13 - I think easiest way how to do id, is (temoraly) replace existing ones with JA1/DG ones - just only for testing purposes (to find how many speech oprtions are missing, coloring them...etc) and after all is bugfixed, then only waiting until coders finish up extending of prof.dat for more mercs.

BTW is here any page/thread about which features are planed/finished (and which ones are finished but need more testing) in 1.13 ? With know bugs with need bughunting but are hard to reproduce ?
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #263558] Sat, 25 September 2010 15:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3498
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
if someone can extract the etds (or how that was done) i'll check speech-files - there is mauch easier way to do it
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #263655] Sun, 26 September 2010 21:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kazuya

 
Messages:222
Registered:January 2009
http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/1180/garysamvinny.png
Any suggestions so far? Gary and Sam were quite tricky to pull off and I'm still not satisfied. Is Vinnys neck okay now?
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #263656] Sun, 26 September 2010 21:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RoWa21

 
Messages:2046
Registered:October 2005
Location: Austria
Looks good. Yes Vinnys neck and background is perfect.


Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #263733] Mon, 27 September 2010 21:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
inshy

 
Messages:181
Registered:November 2007
Location: Belarus, Minsk

who is #5 and #6? it is from ja2 source

http://ja2.h758491.serverkompetenz.net/inshy/pix/faces.jpg

and second photo for Calvin Barkmore. In game used different face, so this pic we could take for new RPC\NPC or MERC. But it is max size of photo that exist in game data (

http://ja2.h758491.serverkompetenz.net/inshy/pix/B157.jpg

who want to back Speck? All animated STI exist in ja2.

http://ja2.h758491.serverkompetenz.net/inshy/pix/B159.jpg

[Updated on: Mon, 27 September 2010 22:02] by Moderator

Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #263744] Mon, 27 September 2010 23:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RoWa21

 
Messages:2046
Registered:October 2005
Location: Austria
@Inshy: Where can I find Speck? Any download link?


Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #263753] Mon, 27 September 2010 23:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kazuya

 
Messages:222
Registered:January 2009
inshy
who is #5 and #6? it is from ja2 source
I don't think that I really understand you. I have no idea who #5 and #6 are.


inshy
who want to back Speck? All animated STI exist in ja2.

http://ja2.h758491.serverkompetenz.net/inshy/pix/B159.jpg

Bringing Speck back, is a piece of cake. I have converted 90x100 into 48x43 several times. Getting the bigface picture done, is usually the trickiest part.
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #263765] Tue, 28 September 2010 05:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Seraph

 
Messages:21
Registered:June 2006
Location: Germany
#5 is Sioux, a merc from one of the JA2 preview screenshots: Click

And a preview screenshot with Vinny.



Please, could you bring back the following mercs, too?
Anita "Mouse" Backman
Dr. Eli Summers
Dr. Margaret "Stella" Trammel
Johnny "Snake" Edwards
Reverend "Rev" Clyde Potter
Walter "Wally" Yuntz
Re: Putting missing mercs back in 1.13?[message #263778] Tue, 28 September 2010 09:06 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
inshy

 
Messages:181
Registered:November 2007
Location: Belarus, Minsk

Mike as merc?

http://www.jaggedalliance.de/ja2/pics/9.shtml
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