Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » v1.13 Modding, Customising, Editing » v1.13 Weapon & Item Refinement » WW II Mod
Re: WW II mod[message #276229] Sun, 20 March 2011 18:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wil473

 
Messages:2816
Registered:September 2004
Location: Canada
Lootfrag, as I said, it is not using the in-game launcher grenade system. From many other discussions on in-game gun mechanics (and hopefully ChrisL or Headrock doesn't need to jump in and correct me), when a magazine is "loaded" it gives its stats to the gun and disappears in the process. What I'm suggesting is a temporary override of those stats in the gun item:

1) replaces the "loaded" ammotype with another one (in the context of rifle grenades, one of real exploding ammotypes that I've been promoting all around the forum lately)

2) stores the original ammotype somewhere in memory

3) recognizes that the gun has been fired, so that it may remove itself from the gun and game

4) restore the gun to the "loaded" ammotype.

In effect, to achieve a proper rifle grenade, we should really be thinking about something other than the current launcher infrastructure. There is one thing I just realized though, using the gun/bullet firing system would not allow for a grenade lobbing trajectory, only direct fire.


Now that being said, it is very unlikely that this idea, if pursued, would be available in the short term, so designing within the known limits of rev 4057 (and I hope they don't break anything in the closed beta), I'm actually thinking of using Bun's idea for a rifle grenade. IoV has a bunch of rifle grenade graphics, but as far as I remember their system is just another underslung launcher. So is this one, but at least it imposes the limit of stopping the weapon from firing when loaded. The only thing it is missing is decreasing the magazine by one.

Seems easy enough to implement:
-import graphics from IoV
-define two new attachment slots: 1) dummy one for clicking the grenade into and give hints as to how the system works, 2) real one for attaching rifle grenade
-define one new attachment layout class for the "dummy" weapons
-define a launcher that does not actually have attachment slots for grenades
-define some grenades (only planning ATG and APG)
-setup some USE mergers
-figure out the math to produce a layout that is a combination of the original weapon and the rifle grenade layout (this is where I expect to be making mistakes)

[Updated on: Sun, 20 March 2011 18:59] by Moderator



Re: WW II mod[message #276235] Sun, 20 March 2011 21:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
breversa

 
Messages:104
Registered:November 2010
Yay ! Thanks Buns for you AIMNAS v15 tweaked files ! I can finally play with Pyg's install files and everything now seems correct. Here's what I did (remember I play JA2 using WINE on Linux) :

1- Take a fresh install from JA2 Gold (I've created a special archive just for that purpose) Smile
2- Run krename (if using KDE) to rename all files AND directories into lowercase
3- Extract Pyg's archive somewhere, but NOT in your install directory !
4- Rune krename on Pygs files (normally not needed, but better safe than sorry !)
5- Drop Pyg's files into your JA2 install directory
6- Extract Buns' v0.2 update somewhere (again, not in you install directory)
7- Run krename in these files
8- Drop them in your install directory
9- Extract Bun's special AIMNAS v15 files somewhere (same comment)
10- Run krename on them (you'd have guessed by now, right ? Smile )
11- Drop them
12- FINALLY enjoy JA2 with Buns' WW2 Weapons Mod ! Very Happy

How do I know everything is normal ?
- WF mercs have their correct portraits, bios, stats, gears, voices, etc.
- MERC mercs as well, and all available
- Speck's voice is no longer missing
- Maps have WW2-specific items on them (e.g. Mauser 1910 in A9 Wink )
- I'm lost with the rebels' new traits (Dimitri no longer has throwing, but marksman instead ? No stealth for anyone ?) Very Happy

I did notice one thing though : in WF, Miguel's voice had been redone to make him say some special stuff. In my current install, Miguel has his normal, vanilla JA2 voice. Ira also has her normal, "tomboyish" portrait, instead of WF's much hotter one ! Smile

Bug list :
- The Beretta M34 has 4 normal attachement slots, instead of specific pistol one(s)
- And so does the sawed-off shotgun, that used to have modern attachments slots. The S&W Chiefs Special is fine though.

[Updated on: Sun, 20 March 2011 22:16] by Moderator

Re: WW II mod[message #276237] Sun, 20 March 2011 23:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
breversa

 
Messages:104
Registered:November 2010
- In A10, the jeep is missing.
- In B9, the ennemies once dropped radio head sets... and a saber ! Razz
- In C9, I found a Winchester 94 than can accept modern attachements.
Re: WW II mod[message #276241] Sun, 20 March 2011 23:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
breversa

 
Messages:104
Registered:November 2010
That's weird... Henning does not learn anything... pretty much like Len (?), or Sarge in Vietnam SOG '69...

Some option also don't seem to be saved, like "Auto-save", or "Mercs light ground during movement". I try to turn them on/off, but they stay on...
Re: WW II mod[message #276257] Mon, 21 March 2011 13:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Buns

 
Messages:677
Registered:September 2010
Quote:
- I'm lost with the rebels' new traits (Dimitri no longer has throwing, but marksman instead ? No stealth for anyone ?)
I think Stealthy for Dimitri is a bit OOC, he rather is a lumb than moving like a snake. I had given him Marksman instead because in my games he always ends up as marksman for the rebel squad (provided he survives long enough).

Quote:
I did notice one thing though : in WF, Miguel's voice had been redone to make him say some special stuff. In my current install, Miguel has his normal, vanilla JA2 voice. Ira also has her normal, "tomboyish" portrait, instead of WF's much hotter one !
Yes, I was a bit surprised too that the WF voices, along with the respective textlines not seem to be a part of WF v15. Can be that this is related to the old mercs returning on their original slots? No idea.

Quote:
- The Beretta M34 has 4 normal attachement slots, instead of specific pistol one(s)
The Beretta M34, as well as all other pocket pistols, don't accept any attachments. The four solts are the dummy slots added by NAS when the item has no attachments listed.

Quote:
- And so does the sawed-off shotgun, that used to have modern attachments slots.
same here.

breversa
- In A10, the jeep is missing.

And so is the El Dorado...

That's extremly tricky, but I finally figured out where that comes from: In the file MercProfiles.XML it is now possible to define the map coordinates for characters. In most cases (mercs and moving NPCs) it is "0 0 0" because the character not is tied to a certain sector. Not so for stationary NPCs, RPCs - and the vehicles. For reasons unknown to me this is not the case with the El Dorado and Jeep in WF v15, in fact the Jeep isn't even listed in the profiles.

To fix that you need to add the Jeep to the profiles (it's slot 165) and add the proper coordinates for both vehicles. That's "10 1 0" for the Jeep, and I think "4 5 0" (or so, it's the same as Kingpin's coordinates) for the El Dorado. I don't have the file on this PC, but will upload a fixed MercProfiles.XML soon. This requires a new campaign to take effect.

Quote:
- In B9, the ennemies once dropped radio head sets... and a saber !
Yes, that's correct. Headset Radio of course is to modern, but it is more of a placeholder until I found a better sollution for radios.

Quote:
- In C9, I found a Winchester 94 than can accept modern attachements.
Ah yes, noted.

breversa
That's weird... Henning does not learn anything... pretty much like Len (?), or Sarge in Vietnam SOG '69...
Interestingly I seem to have the same problem with him. Can it be that implemention of the WF mercs into the Vanilla line-up is not working correctly? Haven't tried Rudolf and the others though.

Quote:
Some option also don't seem to be saved, like "Auto-save", or "Mercs light ground during movement". I try to turn them on/off, but they stay on...
Probably a result of the zillions of JA-options files that you get when installing WF-AIMNAS over 1.13.
Re: WW II mod[message #276259] Mon, 21 March 2011 13:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3474
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
as every second nOOb (and their dogs) wanted to know how to get rid of miguel's 'wildfire'-voice smeagol kicked it - to quote the colonel: 'not much of loss, really'
Re: WW II mod[message #276260] Mon, 21 March 2011 14:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Buns

 
Messages:677
Registered:September 2010
Logisteric
as every second nOOb (and their dogs) wanted to know how to get rid of miguel's 'wildfire'-voice smeagol kicked it - to quote the colonel: 'not much of loss, really'
Yes, I agree, didn't liked that voice either. I am also happy to have back Dimitri's and Blood's German voices. The English voice acting for both was rather unfitting.
Re: WW II mod[message #276266] Mon, 21 March 2011 15:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LootFragg

 
Messages:344
Registered:August 2009
Location: Berlin, Germany
wil473
when a magazine is "loaded" it gives its stats to the gun
Alright, didn't know that either.
wil473
real exploding ammotypes that I've been promoting all around the forum lately
Sounds good. Real rocket rifles with area of effect damage? Nice.
wil473
The only thing it is missing is decreasing the magazine by one.
Well, who gives a shit. =D If it works, it's awesome.
---
Buns
Blood's German voice
So true! There are few cases where I prefer the German synchronization over the English original, but they exist. Sylvester Stallone, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Bruce Willis... and Keith "Blood" Hanson. =D In German he does sound more like an American than an African, but I actually HAD to hire him each and every time when he responded: "Yeeeaah, Blood hier. Wassislos?" Very Happy Reminds me of Will Smith, actually.
Re: WW II mod[message #276272] Mon, 21 March 2011 18:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Buns

 
Messages:677
Registered:September 2010
Made some first research on scopes:

I couldn't find any informations on the ZF-42 in game, but the ZF-41 would be a 1.5x scope, while stronger scopes from that periode would be the Zeiss Zielvier (4x, identical to ZF-43) and Zeiss Zielsechs (6x). The later has been the strongest scope from that periode I could find informations about. These should be fitting the K 98K, GW-43 and FG-42, plus some other designs, for example the wz.29, may be the M95/24 too, and the Mondragon rifle, which indeed was used with German scopes. (I know, with the right tools you can make every scope fitting each rifle, but let's make things a bit more complicated)

A Japanese scope for the Arisaka from that time would be the 2.5x Type-97 (in fact that's the name of the Arisaka sniper rifle, not its scope; but I couldn't find the name of the scope). This would be used for the two Arisaka variations. I have also read that Argentinian police snipers used (or even still use) Japanese scopes on 1909 Carbines. I don't know which scopes, but this could make the Type-97 eligable for the 7.65er rifles.

The SMLE can be outfitted with the No.32 scope (3.5x) that's already in game. The same would be for Russian rifles and their PEM (4x). The US M84 scope in return cannot stay that way. First of all the M84 was a rather weak scope (2.2x) and secondly more accurate would be a M78 or M81 scope (2.5x) for the Springfield and Garand.

There were a couple of French scopes, but none that seemed to be in use with the MAS-36. I think a APX21 (3x) could be implemented for it.


Any other important scopes you know about and I had been missing?
Re: WW II mod[message #276274] Mon, 21 March 2011 18:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
breversa

 
Messages:104
Registered:November 2010
Buns
There were a couple of French scopes, but none that seemed to be in use with the MAS-36. I think a APX21 (3x) could be implemented for it.


Apparently, there were few scopes used by the french army with their weapons before WW2 : the APX Mle 1916, APX Mle 1917 and APX Mle 1921 ("Mle" is short for "mod
Re: WW II mod[message #276276] Mon, 21 March 2011 19:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
breversa

 
Messages:104
Registered:November 2010
By the way, if you're looking for more french rifles to implement, you might want to check out the MAS 1938-1939 and MAS 1940 prototypes.

They are semi-automatic 7.5x54mm (french WW2 standard round) rifles than could use either 5-rounds magazines, or the same 25-rounds magazine as the MAC 1924/29.

Were it not for the defeat of 1940, France would have had a semi-auto rifle before Germany...

Some links (in french) :
http://www.secondeguerre.net/articles/armes/fr/fu/ar_mas40.html (not always totally precise, but enought to give an overview)
http://tir-collection.forumactif.net/t106-mas-38-39-et-mas-40 (for close-up pictures)

[Updated on: Mon, 21 March 2011 19:16] by Moderator

Re: WW II mod[message #276280] Mon, 21 March 2011 19:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wil473

 
Messages:2816
Registered:September 2004
Location: Canada
Since I was on-line for a few minutes, thought I should drop by and thank Buns for the rifle grenade idea. Got it all setup and working now with quite a few rifles, still need to figure out which modern rifles can/should have this capability. I even figured out a way to be able to remove the launcher, and not cause the grenade to be lost in the process.


Re: WW II mod[message #276335] Tue, 22 March 2011 09:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LootFragg

 
Messages:344
Registered:August 2009
Location: Berlin, Germany
wil473
rifle grenade idea. Got it all setup
Please feel free to receive love and compassion. <3<3<3
Concerning the SIMON breaching grenade, it's said to work on all modern 5.56mm rifles.
Re: WW II mod[message #276336] Tue, 22 March 2011 09:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
usrbid

 
Messages:1580
Registered:December 2008
Buns
Radio of course is to modern, but it is more of a placeholder until I found a better sollution for radios.


A not very serious reply, you could use one of the below?



Re: WW II mod[message #276338] Tue, 22 March 2011 09:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
breversa

 
Messages:104
Registered:November 2010
wil473
still need to figure out which modern rifles can/should have this capability.


Wil, one of the way to tell what 5.56mm NATO rifle can shoot rifle grenade is to look at the end of the barrel and the flash hider : weapons like the FA-MAS, M16, M4, SIG 550 and SIG 551 Long Barrel have a long enough barrel protruding out of the receiver, meant for direct-firing grenades. Some rifles like the FA-MAS also have special sights to use rifle grenade in indirect fire, pretty much like a small mortar (hint, hint Wink ).

Weapons like the Colt Commando, SIG 552 (standard, non-Long Barrel), on the other hand, cannot accept rifle grenades.

While long-barreled, sharpshooter- or LMG-version of some (new) assault rifles do have a barrel long enough to accept rifle grenades, I don't think they're meant to (and that would be one thing to distinguish one version from another).

http://world.guns.ru/assault/ is, as usual, well documented in that matter, and often specifies whether a given rifle can accept rifle grenades or not.

And as for other rifles, I know that the french MAS 36/51 (not the MAS 36) and MAS 49/56 (not the MAS 49) can fire rifle grenades.
Re: WW II mod[message #276374] Tue, 22 March 2011 14:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Buns

 
Messages:677
Registered:September 2010
breversa
Model 1921 magnification is unknow (supposedly 3x as well)
I think so too.

breversa
By the way, if you're looking for more french rifles to implement, you might want to check out the MAS 1938-1939 and MAS 1940 prototypes. They are semi-automatic 7.5x54mm (french WW2 standard round) rifles than could use either 5-rounds magazines, or the same 25-rounds magazine as the MAC 1924/29. Were it not for the defeat of 1940, France would have had a semi-auto rifle before Germany...
There were also earlyer French semi-automatic rifles. The thing with French weapons is that we don't have good candidates to use them. The only two French are Flo and Gaston, for which the MAS-36 and MAS-38, plus the respective pistol, had been implemented. Additional French weapons would be buyable only, and that way rather down the list (together with Carcano and the like).

Quote:
Henning does not learn anything
Had him learning for hours, and yes, not even a bit of a progress bar appears. In his case it is not so problematical, but I don't think that hiring Lucky or Grace makes much sense that way. I'll check the XMLs if I can do something about it; but if it's something with the code that prevents the new slots from working properly I am lost either.

ah, forgott the fixed file for the vehicles *knotinhandkerchief*

wil473
Since I was on-line for a few minutes, thought I should drop by and thank Buns for the rifle grenade idea. Got it all setup and working now with quite a few rifles, still need to figure out which modern rifles can/should have this capability. I even figured out a way to be able to remove the launcher, and not cause the grenade to be lost in the process.
Could you please go into a few more details?

[Updated on: Tue, 22 March 2011 14:13] by Moderator

Re: WW II mod[message #276378] Tue, 22 March 2011 14:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
breversa

 
Messages:104
Registered:November 2010
Buns
There were also earlyer French semi-automatic rifles. The thing with French weapons is that we don't have good candidates to use them. The only two French are Flo and Gaston, for which the MAS-36 and MAS-38, plus the respective pistol, had been implemented. Additional French weapons would be buyable only, and that way rather down the list (together with Carcano and the like).


If you're thinking of the RSC Mle 1917 and 1918 rifles, they are indeed older, but use the then-contemporary 8mm Lebel round, instead of the WW2 7,5x54mm one. Anyway, down the list. Smile

Quote:
Had him learning for hours, and yes, not even a bit of a progress bar appears. In his case it is not so problematical, but I don't think that hiring Lucky or Grace makes much sense that way. I'll check the XMLs if I can do something about it; but if it's something with the code that prevents the new slots from working properly I am lost either.


He could use some more strength, IMO. Smile
I haven't tried any other WF merc, so I have no idea whether none of them can learn, or only Henning.
Re: WW II mod[message #276384] Tue, 22 March 2011 14:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wil473

 
Messages:2816
Registered:September 2004
Location: Canada
Rifle Launched Grenade launcher key points:

* Rifle Grenade Attachment Class

* RGL layout class - only has one slot that can only contain Rifle Grenade Attachment class

* Multi-attachment class muzzle slot to accept both muzzle attachment class (Rifle Grenade Launcher), and Rifle Grenade class - this means that when attached to a plain/firing weapon no special slot appears for the grenade, also gives the grenade a place to go when the launcher is removed from a "RGL" version of the weapon

* RGL version of weapon has the following:
- - Invalid targeting cursor
- - Grenades defined as attachment (so the extra slot appears)
- - multi-layout class: Base weapon's layout + RGL layout
- - Grenades will always fit the RGL version, but can only launch if the launcher is attached to the muzzle

RGL Evolution
1) Rifle Grenade Launcher attaches to muzzle slot - acts as flash hider, nothing more
2) Rifle Grenade clicked on empty slot - weapon converts to RGL version with an extra slot visible for the grenade to fit into (the muzzle slot is valid as well, but the launcher is covering it up); fire as normal.
3) Clicking the Rifle Grenade Launcher to any empty slot will convert it back to the original weapon

2a) If the Rifle Grenade Launcher is removed from the RGL weapon while grenade is loaded, the grenade "jumps" from the RGL weapon's extra slot to the launcher's muzzle slot.


Now I did a few other things to facilitate the use of slot labels as ad hoc tool tips, but in the process found what appear to be bugs in NAS (reported already).

It seems to be working now, there was a easy work around for the CTD, so I may move up my patching schedule so a rifle grenade version is available this weekend (was planning on taking a two week break). I just need to add rifle grenades to some weapons that I left out (it seems every modern assault rifle can fire these things as long as the barrel is long enough).


[Updated on: Tue, 22 March 2011 15:03] by Moderator



Re: WW II mod[message #276389] Tue, 22 March 2011 15:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
breversa

 
Messages:104
Registered:November 2010
wil473
I just need to add rifle grenades to some weapons that I left out (it seems every modern assault rifle can fire these things as long as the barrel is long enough).


You may want to create the french APAV-40 rifle grenade that fits the FA-MAS, but I believe it's been created during the 70s.

(Please note that the picture a the bottom of the page shows the outdated grenade sight ; the latest sight is contained within the handguard, and uses the same front post as "bullets" firing.)

[Updated on: Tue, 22 March 2011 15:17] by Moderator

Re: WW II mod[message #276390] Tue, 22 March 2011 15:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wil473

 
Messages:2816
Registered:September 2004
Location: Canada
Thank you, but I am being very generic with my Rifle Grenade implementation. One AT round, one AP round for all rifles (and it is now looking like All rifles). Graphics already imported (and modified) from IoV. Though I might consider this for a future graphics replacement.

[Updated on: Tue, 22 March 2011 15:19] by Moderator



Re: WW II mod[message #276391] Tue, 22 March 2011 15:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
breversa

 
Messages:104
Registered:November 2010
Sure, that's perfectly fine to me already. May I suggest smoke (and maybe tear and mustard gas) as well ?

BTW, will your AT grenade have any blast radius, or only major damage to the hit target ?
Re: WW II mod[message #276405] Tue, 22 March 2011 19:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
breversa

 
Messages:104
Registered:November 2010
- The CZ vz38 cannot be fired ! It displays a "?" when aimed at an ennemy. Of course, I discovered that at the worst moment... ! Very Happy
- The MAT-49 SMG can accept modern attachments.

[Updated on: Tue, 22 March 2011 23:17] by Moderator

Re: WW II mod[message #276420] Wed, 23 March 2011 00:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LootFragg

 
Messages:344
Registered:August 2009
Location: Berlin, Germany
Turns out there's a bloody lot of rifle grenades and makeshift rifle grenades. I guess we're just lacking a list. I have read some articles on the English Wikipedia and asked for somebody to create a list of rifle grenades. For WW1/WW2 mods, there's no end to the list of potential rifle grenades. But even today they're still in use. Those FAMAS grenades (breversa linked to one of them). The TAR-21 has a rifle grenade of its own. Wow. Need to stop digging.

Edit: Can't.
Rephaim Advance Grenade for TAR-21
Wow.

[Updated on: Wed, 23 March 2011 00:15] by Moderator

Re: WW II mod[message #276423] Wed, 23 March 2011 00:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
breversa

 
Messages:104
Registered:November 2010
- In C13 (Drassen middle), I found a SEAL 2000 knife and a dart. Are they supposed to exist ?
Re: WW II mod[message #276424] Wed, 23 March 2011 02:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wil473

 
Messages:2816
Registered:September 2004
Location: Canada
To be honest, once the first rifle grenade is set up any subsequent ones are trivial. Adding additional rifles to the scheme on the other hand is more of a pain. I'm starting with only two grenades, mostly as a proof-of-concept.


Re: WW II mod[message #276441] Wed, 23 March 2011 12:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Buns

 
Messages:677
Registered:September 2010
breversa
- The CZ vz38 cannot be fired ! It displays a "?" when aimed at an ennemy. Of course, I discovered that at the worst moment... ! Very Happy
That's not good (missing cursor assigned). noted
Quote:
- The MAT-49 SMG can accept modern attachments.
The MAT-49 shouldn't be in anymore. Where did you find it?
breversa
- In C13 (Drassen middle), I found a SEAL 2000 knife and a dart. Are they supposed to exist ?
Yes. i hadn't done anything about knifes (also the KCB, what is standard bayonet in this mod, is to modern). That's still to do.

----------------------------------
New scopes implemented:

Scope 2x
As before, standard scope that can be mounted on all weapons that do accept scopes.

Type 97 (2.5x)
Can be used with Modelo 1909 Carbine, Modelo 1891, Modelo 1891 Carbine, Arisaka, Arisaka E

ZF 41 (1.5x), Zeiss Zielvier (4x), Zeiss Zielsechs (6x)
Can be mounted on StuG 44, Steyr M95/24, Karabinek wz.29, Gew. 43, FG-42-2, FG-42-1, Mondragon, and Mauser 98K.

APX21 (3x)
For now only for the MAS 36.

M73 (2.5x)
Replaces the M84, and also no longer is the best one (the M84 incorrectly was something around 8x). It can be mounted on Springfield M1903A3, M1A1 Carbine, Springfield M1903A4, M1 Carbine, M2 Carbine, M1 Garand.

No.32 Scope (3.5x)
Can be used with SMLE No.5, SMLE No.4 Mk.1 (no longer with US weapons)

PEM (4x)
For the Russian rifles (AVS-36, Tokarev SVT-40, Fedorov Avtomat, Mosin-Nagant M1891/44, Mosin-Nagant M1891/30)


All scopes were re-statted according to the 2x Scope. This means also the other scopes now do give a Night- and CaveVision bonus. The 4x and 6x scopes also give a dammage bonus. All scopes also have an AP-malus for shooting (the larger the higher). Means shooting without scope is a bit faster.

The enemy uses the Scope 2x, Type 97 and the four German scopes, but the later only on the Mondragon rifle. This should mean you mostly get either the 2x scope or a scope you can only use with enemy bolt-actoin rifles from loot. All scopes are available at BR and the respective local dealers.
Re: WW II mod[message #276444] Wed, 23 March 2011 12:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
breversa

 
Messages:104
Registered:November 2010
Buns
The MAT-49 shouldn't be in anymore. Where did you find it?


Hum, so true. Herv
Re: WW II mod[message #276445] Wed, 23 March 2011 13:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Buns

 
Messages:677
Registered:September 2010
breversa
Hum, so true. Herv
Re: WW II mod[message #276447] Wed, 23 March 2011 13:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
breversa

 
Messages:104
Registered:November 2010
Are you a shooter, Buns ? If you've never shot with a scope, I encourage you to give it a try, or even better, try without scope, with low-mag or red-dot scope, and with a high-mag one. You'll see the difference. Smile

I thought the cost for single-shot included the time to acquire and/or re-acquire target after a shot, which a scope speeds up or down ; while the ready-cost is more about putting the stock firmly against your shoulder and raising the weapon to eye-level without actually aiming (yet).

PS :
A red-dot sight is pretty much the same as a 1x scope but with wider field of view.
Re: WW II mod[message #276448] Wed, 23 March 2011 13:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Buns

 
Messages:677
Registered:September 2010
Quote:
I thought the cost for single-shot included the time to acquire and/or re-acquire target after a shot, which a scope speeds up or down ; while the ready-cost is more about putting the stock firmly against your shoulder and raising the weapon to eye-level without actually aiming (yet).
I would rather say that ready costs include everything between seeing a target and shooting. Single shot AP would reflect the general "handling" of the weapon, independently whether it already is raised or not (hence the difference between shooting a pistol and shooting a sniper-rifle). Aiming in return is determined by the extra aim-points you invest into the shot: when you shoot without extra aiming it would mean you just raise the gun to the direction of the target and pull the trigger. I can't see how that could be done faster when you have to look through a scope additionally.
Re: WW II mod[message #276452] Wed, 23 March 2011 15:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LootFragg

 
Messages:344
Registered:August 2009
Location: Berlin, Germany
This is an interesting discussion. I think Buns is right.

Readying a gun means getting into position for a shot, raising the gun, pulling it into the shoulder, leaning forward etc. It's fast for pistols because they're lightweight and don't knock you back that easily. Plus they don't have a buttstock.

Firing a gun means putting it approximately on target. Shooting at the same target again gives you an aiming bonus because you're basically already "on it". The AP costs contain both moving the gun in position (without actually aiming) and compensating the recoil after the shot. Quick shots don't use the sights. Like when you watch your tracers or your laser point. The only "aiming" you do is pointing the gun in your target's direction.

Aiming a gun means you don't shoot immediately after bringing the gun on target, but you use the sights. I think in NCTH there's an actual difference between quick shots and aimed shots displayed in the target cursor (there's a zoom level indicator or something). Red dot sights make acquiring a target far easier when compared to iron sights, but this is aiming already. Lower aim levels should probably cost less for red dot sights (or low magnification scopes) when compared to iron sights, that's true. However, that's the aiming AP cost, not the shooting AP cost.

When shooting the G36 rifle using the reflex sights I noticed it's pretty quick and intuitive, but you have to get your head in the right position. If you turned around and immediately shot at somebody attacking you with a knife (which is pretty much what the quickshot is about), the first shot would come prior to you actually acquiring the target and seeing a red dot. Notice that mostly large gap between shooting without aim points spent and shooting with only one aim point spent.
Re: WW II mod[message #276455] Wed, 23 March 2011 15:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
breversa

 
Messages:104
Registered:November 2010
I get to shoot the Bundeswehr weapons (G36, MG3 and P8) every fall, and I highly appreciate them. Wink

Your analysis seems correct (do the game mechanics work 100% as you describe ?), so a low-mag scope should lower neither the ready cost nor the *unaimed* single shot cost, but only the *extra aiming* cost. Can the game engine take this into account ?
Re: WW II mod[message #276490] Wed, 23 March 2011 22:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
breversa

 
Messages:104
Registered:November 2010
- The crossbow you can find in Drassen or buy accepts modern attachments (I'm not couting the polymer stock).
- Same goes for the dart pistol.
- Is the Remington M870 you find in Father Walker's closet supposed to be here ? It also accepts modern attachments.
- Devin sells Sterling SMG, but I think it appeared in the 60s only.

[Updated on: Wed, 23 March 2011 22:11] by Moderator

Re: WW II mod[message #276491] Wed, 23 March 2011 22:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LootFragg

 
Messages:344
Registered:August 2009
Location: Berlin, Germany
breversa
Can the game engine take this into account ?
This is a topic I've come across shortly before. Awfully familiar. It was about aiming costs being static (defined per aim click in some INI) and APs per bullet as well so agility has a high influence on shooting performance. Was it this thread? I've got no idea.

Basically, for now, aiming costs can't be adjusted the way they should. However, if we assume red dot scopes to make aiming faster in general, they could simply reduce the number of max aim clicks (don't know if it isn't already like this). That means you get the full aiming bonus spending less APs for aiming.

Damn, I want the release to be done with so people can start dealing with the important stuff. Very Happy

breversa
Is the Remington M870 you find in Father Walker's closet supposed to be here ? It also accepts modern attachments.
I think Buns mentioned that he left it in on purpose.
Re: WW II mod[message #276546] Thu, 24 March 2011 11:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Buns

 
Messages:677
Registered:September 2010
breversa
- The crossbow you can find in Drassen or buy accepts modern attachments (I'm not couting the polymer stock).
- Same goes for the dart pistol.
OK, noted.

Quote:
- Is the Remington M870 you find in Father Walker's closet supposed to be here ? It also accepts modern attachments.
Yes, I left it there. If you don't mind to plunder a church, you get a Remington shotgun in reward....

Quote:
- Devin sells Sterling SMG, but I think it appeared in the 60s only.
If I am not mistaken, it was introduced with Operation Market Garden in 1944.

--------------------------------

Changes:
- Fixed Winchester 94 and CZ-38
- New scopes cannot be modified with glueing
- Strings can be made by using a knife with a rag (they are needed to make ghillie kits)

New functionality for the Weapon Cleaning Kit:
They now no longer work as tool kits but can be merged with weapons to improve the status of the weapon (similar to C-18 and armor in WF). This means when your weapon has dropped to some 90% after a lot of shooting you can use a weapon cleaning kit on it to bring it back to 100% (as much as the status of the kit allows).

Of course, this also works with the 50%-status junk the enemy drops after battle, quickly draining your weapon cleaning kit by it. It is not meant to be that way, but I wouldn't know a way to limit using a WCK to weapons of, say, at least 85% status. Weapons can still be repaired the normal way (too).

That was a lot of work because it required an individual entry for each weapon in game.


I think I am ready to upload a new version during the WE.
Re: WW II mod[message #276547] Thu, 24 March 2011 11:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
breversa

 
Messages:104
Registered:November 2010
You're right : according to http://world.guns.ru/smg/brit/sterling-l2-l34-e.html, the Sterling was born around 1942, although it did not become standard issue in the british army before 1953.
Re: WW II mod[message #276605] Fri, 25 March 2011 16:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Buns

 
Messages:677
Registered:September 2010
ATM working on a first concept for new LBE. Unfortuantly I could only find good informations on German and US LBE from that periode. Anyone knows something about others' LBE, in particular something that would be accurate for the enemy?


The Belts on the vest-slot will stay as they are. There will probably be an additional belt with the Medic Belt, that allows for storing 4x 1st Aid Kit and 1x Medic Kit, but has not much room for storing combat items.

May be I will implement the U.S. Assualt Vest that was issued in small numbers occasionally D-Day. It would be a vest with six additional pockets that can be combined with a belt. This item turned out rather useless and was "lost" by most soldiers ASAP. This should be reflected by the item in game.


On the tight-slots there will be the new class of "S.B.- Shoulder Bag". These will be smaller bags that usually were worn from the shoulder, or attached to the belt. They will be similar to the leg rigs in 1.13, with some changes here and there, some removed, some added (for example, a Gas Mask Bag, a Medic Case, or a Grenade Bag) and so on.


Things are bit more difficult with the Combat Pack and Bagpack solts because the bagpack does function differently from all other LBE in NIV. This is always debetable when it comes to define an item to this or that category (not every item that is worn on the bag does hinder your movement).

Some of those items will work as modular systems. For example a Haversack and a Knapsack would be two distinctive Combat Packs. Both can be strapped together to the Bag Pack Pack Set, giving you the pouches of both, but requires it to be worn on the backpag slot.

Another modular system could be the German A-Frame. This would basically be a carrier to which you can attach further LBE (an assualt pack, a blanket roll, a mess can and the like). I am most undecided whether this should be a C.P. or a B.P. and how to finally set this up.


A new item could be Ditty Bags. Those would be small bags with may be two tiny or one small pocket. They would be small enough to store several of them that are filled inside a large pouch, for example in a Rucksack. That way you would be able to store several different small items inside one large pouch (for example a wood- and a desert camo kit inside a SAW pouch).

Another item could be a Blanket Roll. Our mercs don't need blankets, yet every soldier carries one around. A rolled up blanket on the other hand is a very basic way to store your personal items. This was very popular amongst soldiers during the 19th Century, but also was done during the 20th Century, for example in the Russian army.

The Blanket Roll could either be worn individually as a Shoulder Bag, or be attached to other bags, such as most rucksacks, the A-Frame as well as the Haversack. In case of the Haversack it should change it from combat pack into a bagpack. This would add a couple of smaller pouches (you wouldn't be able to store anything bulky inside a rolled up blanket) to the respective bag.

A rather funny thing I came across was the Helmet 1st Aid Pouch that was used by US paratroopers; i.e. a 1st aid pouch that could be attached to the helmet. In terms of JA that would be an attachment for the helmet that would enable another attachment-slot that could hold a 1st aid kit. Interessting idea, but rather pointless because you would be charged APs when trying to use the kit while there are plenty of opportunities to store a 1st aid kit in the normal (AP-free) LBE.


I was also thinking of adding means to carry spades, but rejected the idea because I never bother with carrying spades around. As long as there is no way to make field fortifications carrying around entrenching tools is rather pointless.

The same would be with all kinds of scabbards. There is a generic knife slot for each merc and I can't see a point with packing even more knives on top of that.

Any other ideas?
Re: WW II mod[message #276606] Fri, 25 March 2011 16:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3474
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
as it is a wwII-mod they should look wwII-like and not fitting to the engines limits - i.e. they cariied spades, so give them spades and ropes to the 'russian' gear while you are at it and male the spade a melee weapon (it was always used in trench warfare and often they still had enough ammo, but wwII rifles were indeed kinda bulky) - i'm also for that storage option '1staid-kit on helmet' as you can have you're spares there (my personnel always has two of them)
Re: WW II mod[message #276610] Fri, 25 March 2011 17:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Buns

 
Messages:677
Registered:September 2010
Logisteric
male the spade a melee weapon (it was always used in trench warfare and often they still had enough ammo, but wwII rifles were indeed kinda bulky)
The spade already is a melee weapon (once I had Monk nearly been killed by a guy wielding a spade). On the other hand, we don't have any trench combat, and in general rather few hand-to-hand - if you are not desperatly provoking HTH, probably as much as in WWII (some 5% of all encounters).

They also didn't use the spade in HTH because they packed it right for that occasion but because it was at hand for everybody as a tool for digging. And that's what I said, when there is no need of digging no one would be carrying around a spade (an axe would be a much better choice for HTH, for example) - at least I wouldn't.
Re: WW II mod[message #276619] Fri, 25 March 2011 18:20 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3474
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
you would - as the sch
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