| [IDEA] Using 3D models to create animations sprites[message #280584]
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Tue, 24 May 2011 11:38 
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 Taro_M |
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Messages:292
Registered:November 2008 |
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Recently I started to think about using 3D models to create new animations for JA2. You can use them to make animations frames, by simply making screenshots of key frames. It can be quite tiresome, but I think its easier then working on 2D sprites only.
I prepared little demonstration using a model I created long time ago. I used Milkshape 3D as I had it at hand. However not that I suck at animation and Milkshape itself is unwieldy in that aspect.
As you can see its isnt best, but I spend like 10 minutes on this. The beauty, in using 3D models, lies in fact you dont need to create completely new stuff create sprites for different angles, you just swing the camera and take screens of same keyframes.
I think that blender is one of the best programs for this, also DAZ 3D is said to be good at this, its in free beta stage right now.
Just pointing out, maybe someone will find it useful.
[Updated on: Tue, 24 May 2011 11:54] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Master Sergeant
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| Re: [IDEA] Using 3D models to create animations sprites[message #280599]
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Tue, 24 May 2011 15:12 
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| Taro_M |
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Messages:292
Registered:November 2008 |
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It was just an presentation, a proof of concept.
As far as I know JA2 animations are 2D sprites animated via frames (like a cartoon). So to create animation you need to create set of frames by hand. And if you want to make animation of, say, soldier running you need, lets say, 8 frames for one direction, now multiply this by 8 directions and all of this have to create separatly. Directions are completely different view so you need completely different sprites. All of this while animation is the same
Now if you had 3D model you only need one animation of soldier running and you can make all directions, you just take screenshots of keyframes from different points of view. Putting them in JA2 is same as those made by hand, its just the process of creating sprites that is different.
Also you only need, 3 models to cover all possible body builds, 4 if you would create new large female body. Pistol and Rilfe can be just seperate group. Also animations can be same for all 3 models, if they will use same skeleton.
[Updated on: Tue, 24 May 2011 15:18] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Master Sergeant
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| Re: [IDEA] Using 3D models to create animations sprites[message #280629]
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Tue, 24 May 2011 18:43
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| Taro_M |
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Messages:292
Registered:November 2008 |
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I found good meshes base for normal female and male. Good starting point, we would need some gear though, but nothing you cant find.
male
female
Now we would need a good skeleton to rig this.
Damn it, I just cant get into that blender. I would need to work my way out of the basics. I do, however, can make mesh in milkshape (it can be imported into blander later). However it would take someone with more knowladge then me to rig and animate this.
[Updated on: Tue, 24 May 2011 20:25] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Master Sergeant
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| Re: [IDEA] Using 3D models to create animations sprites[message #280674]
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Wed, 25 May 2011 00:05
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| Kazuya |
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Messages:208
Registered:January 2009 |
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@Taro: Your idea is not really new  I don't say this in order to belittle your effort. It's quite the contrary, I appreciate it and the other users here surely do aswell. But there are some things you should know. You pointed out correctlky, that JA2 uses sprites, that are similar to a cartoon and that it would be easier to use a 3d modell, animate it and capture the according pictures. So far so good, but there is one major problem with your current approach. I have been playing a little bit with blender myself and thanks to Darin, a user from the NMA Forum, I have been able to aquire some awesom models:
This is what the actual merc picture looks like:
As you can see, it uses some weird colours. Those colours are actually placeholders and the colours that you see in game, are saved for each mercenary. A mercenary has an entry like black pants and white shirt. So when the game draws your merc, it takes the frame that is needed and looks up, what colours are stored in your merc data. The game sees, black pants, so now it goes to its picture and draws black over the green pixel, because green is replaced with the pants colours, it does the same thing for shirt, skin and hair. Only the boots stay as brown as they are. Now, what would happen if you took your own model with all the animations and just paste them into the sti files in the anims folder? Well, you would most certainly screw up the colours. All animation stis use the same predefined colour palette and I haven't been able to change them without causing problems.
But that doesn't mean, that it can't be done. There have been some other sprites for the mercs, just search the forum for "Logical Bodytypes" or "Improving the original JA2 graphics".
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Sergeant 1st Class
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| Re: [IDEA] Using 3D models to create animations sprites[message #280744]
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Wed, 25 May 2011 22:15
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| Taro_M |
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Messages:292
Registered:November 2008 |
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I agree basic stuff first, I returned boots and gloves to black color, Im pretty sure it would stay like that in game, I also unhid belts and stuff. I think those will be seen pretty clearly even if you resize it. I also shortened legs a bit so proportions are bit better now
I will now import that model into blender and try to rig it, although I have NO idea how to do that properly. Help would be very much welcome.
Is there any default human skeleton in blender? I want all models have same one so animations can be same as well, much less work.
[Updated on: Wed, 25 May 2011 22:18] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Master Sergeant
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| Re: [IDEA] Using 3D models to create animations sprites[message #280774]
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Thu, 26 May 2011 11:46
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| Buns |
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Messages:655
Registered:September 2010 |
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HazmatIf they could be spiffied up a bit that would make me damn happy.
Some kind of uniform or military looking outfit would make a whole lot of difference it think.
Heck, i even would be gratefull for some sleves on those shirts. Yes, that would be a first, but very important, step to improve the graphics of JA. We players of JA2 are certainly no graphic fetishists, otherwise we wouldn't be playing a more than ten years old game - but in particular the graphics of the figures are mostly of the wtf?-type.
In particular all kinds of t-shirts, muscle-shirts and tight leggings have to be replaced with long sleved jackets and normal fitting trousers. Another thing is some stances looking extremly odd. For example the normal male figure walking with a two-handed weapon holds his weapon like a Chinese or Russian soldier on parade. The big male holding his weapon up one handed and shooting from the hip also is a bit strange.
I think the only body that has its animations right is the female figure with holding the gun in a more natural state muzzle down and correctly shooting with both hands from the shoulder.
Some pics of modern soldiers in Afghanistan without helmets for reference:
[Updated on: Thu, 26 May 2011 11:47] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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First Sergeant
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| Re: [IDEA] Using 3D models to create animations sprites[message #280854]
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Fri, 27 May 2011 12:47
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| Taro_M |
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Messages:292
Registered:November 2008 |
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As for now I have more technical problems with blender, so I will additionally start a WIP thread on blender artist. Right now I have a problem with constraints as constrained bones move around wildly making it more or less impossible to animate. However I did figure out constraints, more or less.
Here I would like to see more JA 2 oriented help, like that info about pallets. Also are those guns in right proportion to the body?
[Updated on: Fri, 27 May 2011 12:49] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Master Sergeant
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| Re: [IDEA] Using 3D models to create animations sprites[message #281118]
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Sat, 28 May 2011 19:48
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| Bio |
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Messages:62
Registered:April 2009
Location: Rhineland-Palatinate/Germ... |
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About that palette stuff. LOBOT supports fixed palettes if that is desired. So you can be completely free in your choice of colors. Of course that feature was meant mainly for prop layers like guns/vests and stuff. And other layers like hairstyles (or maybe certain styles of clothing) should obviously use the dynamic palette, but it would also be possible to use a fixed palette for the complete model.
One more thing, there should be no problem with black pixels. Remember that the palette is indexed. You just have to make sure you apply a palette that has black only where it is guaranteed to be rendered as black in-game (there is a range of gray scale colors from black to white that is fixed).
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Corporal
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| Re: [IDEA] Using 3D models to create animations sprites[message #281437]
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Mon, 30 May 2011 05:19
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| Taro_M |
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Messages:292
Registered:November 2008 |
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If I manage a to create working one-size-fits-all rig and then animate it, then we can think about variations.
Anyway. I have very good news lads I managed to create rather nice skeleton, with constrains, that can be animated rather easily. Now I need to rig that female merc.
[Updated on: Mon, 30 May 2011 05:29] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Master Sergeant
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| Re: [IDEA] Using 3D models to create animations sprites[message #281531]
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Mon, 30 May 2011 16:47
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| Taro_M |
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Messages:292
Registered:November 2008 |
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I only created those 2 models so I can have something to work with. Right now Im focusing on female one. If I manage to get it running and animate it then we can think about other stuff.
Once again, if you have a good skeleton then mesh becomes secondary issue. If you animate skeleton properly then you can have multiple meshes running on same animations. In short: you only need one set of animations, if you use same skeleton.
I started thread on blender artist where I look for more technical help: [WIP] Weighting and animating a female mercenary .
[Updated on: Mon, 30 May 2011 16:48] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Master Sergeant
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| Re: [IDEA] Using 3D models to create animations sprites[message #281597]
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Tue, 31 May 2011 05:56
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| Taro_M |
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Messages:292
Registered:November 2008 |
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Many thanks!
Im just starting to learn stuff about animating in blender, quite a bit of work to properly align stuff, as I dont know magic shortcuts that would make if more bearable. Still those constrains are real life savers.
I decided to replace M16a2 model with FN FAL. The reason is that M16 has very unique shape that can be easily recognized, FN FAL has more "generic rifle" look. Besides FAL is one of my favorite rifles  .
Here is model with new weapon and in new pose I was testing out:
I would need some sample animation from JA2, so I can work out camera angles, frames and such, preferably in frame by frame jpg files. I think we need to start small, so lets replace some simple animation that can played repeatedly, maybe opening doors.
[Updated on: Tue, 31 May 2011 06:07] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Master Sergeant
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. Its because I found my stash with my Resident Evil 4 modding stuff. So I kept adding and adding stuff until I ended up completely replacing that low poly one.
