Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » v1.13 General Development Talk » [IDEA] Using 3D models to create animations sprites
Re: [IDEA] Using 3D models to create animations sprites[message #283192] Sun, 12 June 2011 12:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lockie

 
Messages:3965
Registered:February 2006
Location: Scotland
How would it work , gamewise ?
Lose 25 hp's for throttling , maybe some health ... ?


Re: [IDEA] Using 3D models to create animations sprites[message #283194] Sun, 12 June 2011 12:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3498
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
DepressivesBrot
That's exactly the animation needed to properly deal with Pablo Wink


flo in mind?
Re: [IDEA] Using 3D models to create animations sprites[message #283197] Sun, 12 June 2011 13:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Taro_M

 
Messages:298
Registered:November 2008
I could make such animation but first I need to set up basics. Right now Im trying to figure out how to automate rendering process, but even now you can make new animations, the thing is that they will not fit old ones, and I dont have rigged male model.

I dont think that skeleton structure will change in any way so if you want you can start making new animations using model I provided, in the end we will just copy keyframes into ready models.
Re: [IDEA] Using 3D models to create animations sprites[message #283200] Sun, 12 June 2011 14:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lamach_Head

 
Messages:426
Registered:November 2008
Location: Mars
Uh, I have zero experience with 3D modelling and animating, I am just a coder, that's why I ask for a little teamwork.. Smile

You say new animations wouldn't fit with the old ones. Is the reasen the vest, gloves and holster rig you added on the model?


Re: [IDEA] Using 3D models to create animations sprites[message #283206] Sun, 12 June 2011 15:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Taro_M

 
Messages:298
Registered:November 2008
i added these extras because it would look lame otherwise Razz. I dindt like original JA2 sprites, that is why I decided to add few extra details. Besieds, my model has different art style.

Dont get me wrong, I want to help out, I already posted new renders for you guys to test out. I want to get everything right first, then we can seriously start working on replacing and adding animations.

I only posted that model so in case something goes terribly wrong and i wont be able to work on this anymore, all of this wont disappear. This way even in case of troubles you guys still will have something to work on.

If you want everything done then I kindly as you guys to take this: http://www.sendspace.com/file/r3vhtc an test it in the game to see if there are more problems to deal with. In meantime I may write a tutorial explaining how to pose the model (it aint that hard).

[Updated on: Sun, 12 June 2011 15:25] by Moderator

Re: [IDEA] Using 3D models to create animations sprites[message #283213] Sun, 12 June 2011 16:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lamach_Head

 
Messages:426
Registered:November 2008
Location: Mars
Speaking for myself, I am more interesting in adding new animations, than replacing all existing.
Imo the amount of work needed for replacing all existing animations isn't worth it. After a while you get used to it anyway and stop paying attention to it, while concentrating on gemeplay.
Creating new animations on the other hand, would give us means to improve the gameplay, which IS worthy the effort.
Just my opinion.
If I should give you an advice - I would suggest you to consider focusing on creation of new anims. Reanimating all STIs is so much tedious work (and I don't think automation is really possible) that it will probably drain you from all your energy and motivation before you reach even a quarter of it.
I mean no harm, I just think your great 3D-model-to-sprites project could be put to use in a better way.

BTW I have nothing against beach-wolleyball team fights. Smile

[Updated on: Sun, 12 June 2011 16:35] by Moderator



Re: [IDEA] Using 3D models to create animations sprites[message #283214] Sun, 12 June 2011 16:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3740
Registered:July 2009
I totally second that. Replacing existing stuff is just maximum effort for minimum gain while adding just one new animation for a new feature is a great improvement.


Re: [IDEA] Using 3D models to create animations sprites[message #283217] Sun, 12 June 2011 16:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Buns

 
Messages:677
Registered:September 2010
Earlyer this thread I had suggested to replace the old anims first because doing it the other way round would cause doubled work: When you had added new animations and then come up with the idea to change the overall appearance of the characters you again would need to change the new animations additionally.

That way, when planning to change the overall appearance, what Taro seems to planning to do, he better does it first and then implement new anims based on his new models.
Re: [IDEA] Using 3D models to create animations sprites[message #283219] Sun, 12 June 2011 16:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Taro_M

 
Messages:298
Registered:November 2008
oops, my mistake.

Anyway Im going to post a quick tutorial that will explain posing at least a bit.

Note that once models are finished creating new animations and replacing old ones can be done seperatly at the same time.

[Updated on: Sun, 12 June 2011 17:21] by Moderator

Re: [IDEA] Using 3D models to create animations sprites[message #283222] Sun, 12 June 2011 17:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lamach_Head

 
Messages:426
Registered:November 2008
Location: Mars
Buns
Earlyer this thread I had suggested to replace the old anims first because doing it the other way round would cause doubled work: When you had added new animations and then come up with the idea to change the overall appearance of the characters you again would need to change the new animations additionally.

Easy for you to say, as you are not the one who'll do all the hard work. If you would actually realize how MUCH work it really is, maybe you would speak differently. Instead of waiting for replacing all animations maybe forever, which can never happen as well, coders like me could already start working on the new stuff.

Taro:
Think about it, you would spend half year by intense work on something what already exists. Or a day on something entirely new.
I don't *need* the current anims to be replaced (speaking for myself only), they fill their role ok - they show me what's going on on the battlefield. While replacing them with something better might be nice, it is nothing essentially necessary.
New animations, on the other hand, are something you would be praised to heavens for.


EDIT: I am too hasty with clicking "submit" button, sorry.

[Updated on: Sun, 12 June 2011 17:25] by Moderator



Re: [IDEA] Using 3D models to create animations sprites[message #283223] Sun, 12 June 2011 17:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Logisteric

 
Messages:3498
Registered:December 2008
Location: B
i'm with sandro on that one
Re: [IDEA] Using 3D models to create animations sprites[message #283226] Sun, 12 June 2011 17:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Buns

 
Messages:677
Registered:September 2010
Sandro
Easy for you to say, as you are not the one who'll do all the hard work. If you would actually realize how MUCH work it really is, maybe you would speak differently.
Would you please be so kind and take a look at what Taro is planning to do instead of spamming him with your demands or bashing me when making suggestions how he could save himself additional work by doing what he is planning to do:

Taro
Note that once models are finished creating new animations and replacing old ones can be done seperatly at the same time.
Taro is planning to make new models which then can be used to make new anims.

[Updated on: Sun, 12 June 2011 17:30] by Moderator

Re: [IDEA] Using 3D models to create animations sprites[message #283230] Sun, 12 June 2011 17:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Taro_M

 
Messages:298
Registered:November 2008
Gentlemen, there is no need to quarrel with each other. I do realize that replacing old animations is huge ammount of work, but it will have to be done at some point. However NOTHING will stop us if we decide to create new animations first.

I finished a quick tutorial that explains basics of how to use my model. I encourage you to give it a shot, the more people will try the bigger the chance that someone will get it. And if not then you wont loose anything, so dont be shy and try.


NOTE: MODEL IS STILL UNFINISHED!

Tutorial

Model

[Updated on: Sun, 12 June 2011 17:50] by Moderator

Re: [IDEA] Using 3D models to create animations sprites[message #283231] Sun, 12 June 2011 17:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3740
Registered:July 2009
For the record (as B00ns decided to ignore me anyway):
Nobody is demanding anything from Taro. But creating usable animations from those models is still a ton of work and doing new ones first allows others to advance their projects.


Re: [IDEA] Using 3D models to create animations sprites[message #283233] Sun, 12 June 2011 17:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Taro_M

 
Messages:298
Registered:November 2008
You are right, new animations should have priorty over replacing old ones. However in "meantime" we can replace most used old animations like movement with rifle, but without any pressure, it can be done when we will have some free time to spare.

Check out my little tutorial.

[Updated on: Sun, 12 June 2011 17:56] by Moderator

Re: [IDEA] Using 3D models to create animations sprites[message #283310] Mon, 13 June 2011 10:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Taro_M

 
Messages:298
Registered:November 2008
So is the tutorial any good?

BTW: I think I know how to fix problem with missing materials, we wont be using textures anyway as you cant see any details after scaling down. That is why I use blender material like on hair.

[Updated on: Mon, 13 June 2011 10:32] by Moderator

Re: [IDEA] Using 3D models to create animations sprites[message #285201] Fri, 01 July 2011 15:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SharkD

 
Messages:346
Registered:July 2003
There are online tools such as Arc3D that will create a 3D model out of a series of 2D images. If you could figure out how to get it to work with JA2's sprites you could have a basic model to start from.

http://www.arc3d.be/
Re: [IDEA] Using 3D models to create animations sprites[message #285917] Fri, 08 July 2011 00:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PasHancock

 
Messages:738
Registered:February 2011
Location: Estonia,Tallinn
Anything new?
Re: [IDEA] Using 3D models to create animations sprites[message #285921] Fri, 08 July 2011 01:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bio

 
Messages:64
Registered:April 2009
Location: Rhineland-Palatinate/Germ...
Hi Taro. Your model of the female merc is based on content from the Blender model repository, right? Have you researched the license agreement, I couldn't find anything on the download page you linked to with the lo-poly models you used as a basis. I would assume that they are basically completely free, but just wanted to be sure. Thank you.
Re: [IDEA] Using 3D models to create animations sprites[message #288551] Sat, 06 August 2011 18:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Taro_M

 
Messages:298
Registered:November 2008
In the end I didnt use ANY part of that model from repository. I went with using stuff from resident evil 4 and few other games + some stuff I did myself. The guns were free models though.

Yes, this means that pretty much means that all of that was shamelessly stolen, but hey! Who still plays RE 4? Razz I have no regrets, besides those sprites are so small that in the end it dosent make any difference where did models parts came from.

Not much other news. My PC completely died and I had to buy new one, BUT I managed to recover my stuff from old HD. So I still got models and stuff.

[Updated on: Sat, 06 August 2011 18:49] by Moderator

Re: [IDEA] Using 3D models to create animations sprites[message #345714 is a reply to message #288551] Sun, 29 May 2016 02:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Julix

 
Messages:92
Registered:June 2010
Location: Germany

Hey, any news? happy
Re: [IDEA] Using 3D models to create animations sprites[message #345905 is a reply to message #345714] Sun, 12 June 2016 21:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Crowbarr
Messages:4
Registered:June 2016
Location: Melbourne, Australia
3rd year game design student here.
Very tired from late night exam study.
Have a few years experience with 3DS Max, a legal student version. I've got a little bit of experience with animation and 3D modelling, not good at texturing or optimizing yet, but well...

It seems like I could create a 3D model and then EVERY animation for that model (VERY time consuming, but 3D modelling/animating is my stronger skill)

Or

I could add more animations to the current 2D sprites (Less time, but I have no 2D modelling/animating experience)

Is that the current situation?


If so, does anyone know how I would get a hand on the current 2D sprites and how I would add animations? I know how to animate 3D models, but 2D sprites from an old game? No idea. It's like frame by frame yeah? It seems like a tougher skill than 3D. Ah whatever, I'm rambling.

Oh hang on, reading the other pages.


[Updated on: Sun, 12 June 2016 21:53]

Re: [IDEA] Using 3D models to create animations sprites[message #345906 is a reply to message #345905] Sun, 12 June 2016 22:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:1190
Registered:December 2012
Location: Russia
Useful reading on JA2 animations:

Logical Bodytypes
LOBOT 3D


Improving Original JA2 graphics

kL Animations (unfinished, 29 made)
http://i.imgur.com/ZyiKkkt.gifhttp://i.imgur.com/ad9dRHA.gif
New Animations
New Implemented Animations
Anatomy of a sprite
Isometric View Setup in 3ds max

New Bodytype by Farah Aydid (male with sleeves) (unfinished, 32 made) (in Russian)
http://i.imgur.com/amhv21O.gif
STI format description (in Russian)
New Animations (at kermi.pp.fl)

You can quickly convert sti animation to BMP using sticom.exe tool or use StiToGif.
Modding Tools
sticom - comprehensive command line tool for processing STI files
Using of sticom.exe to auto convert gif to sti animation (in Russian)

Useful tools:
STI Editor by Tox
dotNetStiEditor, JsdEditor, StiToGif

Other Ja2 animations:
Bigmale animation by Skorpion:
http://i.imgur.com/rC6lHVR.gif
Wolf animation (conversion from Fallout Tactics which uses similar isometry):
http://i.imgur.com/i2nCl6s.gif
Ballistic shield (by Lexx) (unfinished)
http://i.imgur.com/nY6UXHu.gif
HMG (by NightOps team)
http://i.imgur.com/tLStpTj.gif

[Updated on: Tue, 14 June 2016 21:02]




Stable 7609+fix (21.05.2017)
Stable 7609+AI (r415 29.04.2017)
Improved weapon sounds
Youtube channel


Re: [IDEA] Using 3D models to create animations sprites[message #345907 is a reply to message #345906] Sun, 12 June 2016 22:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Crowbarr
Messages:4
Registered:June 2016
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Thanks, I'll have to give this a good read though soon
Re: [IDEA] Using 3D models to create animations sprites[message #345908 is a reply to message #345905] Mon, 13 June 2016 05:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hawkeye

 
Messages:1578
Registered:October 2005
Location: Australia
Yes 2D would require you using a 2D paint/animation package and painting pixels by hand the old way.

On the 3D side optimizing and even texturing is not such issue as the final renders/sprites will be tiny by modern day standards. Optimisation just may make your rigs a bit more easier to work with or faster to render but it won't look all that different for a 50 pixel high game sprite.


Re: [IDEA] Using 3D models to create animations sprites[message #345912 is a reply to message #345908] Tue, 14 June 2016 20:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SharkD

 
Messages:346
Registered:July 2003
Did anyone ever figure out the correct lighting angle for isometric scenes? For instance, that wolf sprite above is off by a bit.
Re: [IDEA] Using 3D models to create animations sprites[message #345913 is a reply to message #345912] Tue, 14 June 2016 21:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:1190
Registered:December 2012
Location: Russia
SharkD wrote on Tue, 14 June 2016 22:44
Did anyone ever figure out the correct lighting angle for isometric scenes? For instance, that wolf sprite above is off by a bit.

Wolf is a sprite conversion from Fallout Tactics, so it's just an example of possible ways to get more JA2 animations.

Don't know the exact numbers, but here's the picture showing correct 3d scene setup for ja2:



Stable 7609+fix (21.05.2017)
Stable 7609+AI (r415 29.04.2017)
Improved weapon sounds
Youtube channel


Re: [IDEA] Using 3D models to create animations sprites[message #345914 is a reply to message #345913] Wed, 15 June 2016 02:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hawkeye

 
Messages:1578
Registered:October 2005
Location: Australia
It's also on the Anatomy of a sprite page isn't it?

http://ja2v113.pbworks.com/f/1279888462/ja2_sti_lights_ja.png


Re: [IDEA] Using 3D models to create animations sprites[message #345915 is a reply to message #345914] Wed, 15 June 2016 03:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shinobi

 
Messages:108
Registered:July 2015
Location: Mexico
This means that there's a posibility that we can have an actual animation for the crossbow? :O



Uh uh. I know what you're thinking. "Did he fire six shots or only five?" Well to tell you the truth in all this excitement I kinda lost track myself. But being this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world and would blow you head clean off, you've gotta ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya, punk?
Re: [IDEA] Using 3D models to create animations sprites[message #345916 is a reply to message #345915] Wed, 15 June 2016 04:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hawkeye

 
Messages:1578
Registered:October 2005
Location: Australia
If someone wants to build a crossbow, animate it being shot, walked with...along with the other thousand+ animations required.


Re: [IDEA] Using 3D models to create animations sprites[message #345923 is a reply to message #345916] Wed, 15 June 2016 15:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Crowbarr
Messages:4
Registered:June 2016
Location: Melbourne, Australia
So from the thread info I've seen, Logical body types was abandoned, and LOBOT was too.

Can I still attempt to make animations in 3D or will they not be able to be put into the game?

Sorry if I'm asking the same old questions everyone else is.

Re: [IDEA] Using 3D models to create animations sprites[message #345925 is a reply to message #345923] Thu, 16 June 2016 03:35 Go to previous message
Hawkeye

 
Messages:1578
Registered:October 2005
Location: Australia
I think the main issue with all of these projects was they were abandoned because it was all too much work, animation-wise. There should be some clarification too, that these would still be 2D sprites, they are just pre-rendered from 3D assets, not true real-time 3D polygons working in a 3D environment. JA2 is a 2D game with 2D sprites, just in an isometric format.


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