Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » v1.13 Idea Incubation Lab  » HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!!
Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295203] Thu, 15 December 2011 09:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
howareyou32

 
Messages:453
Registered:March 2009
Location: New York, New York
thanks Rock
I enjoy the new features very much
Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295241] Thu, 15 December 2011 20:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
reVurt

 
Messages:67
Registered:March 2007
Location: The Great White North, eh...
An incredibly tiny bug--so inconsequential that I feel kind of lame posting it at all--but what can you do?

When using ALT to show what selling off inventory items will net you, items like (pet) rocks and shovels, presumably which have no price because you're never meant to buy them, show $0, but when you do sell them off you actually get $1 added to your account.
Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295242] Thu, 15 December 2011 22:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
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Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
Interestingly, these items have 0 usPrice (default). Which probably means that the actual value of the sale is set to a minimum of $1 sometime after the mouse-click to sell, and before the amount is added to your balance.

I could change it easily, but the question is: Should it even be possible to sell $0 items at all?


Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295243] Thu, 15 December 2011 22:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Cell

 
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Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295244] Thu, 15 December 2011 22:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tao

 
Messages:2225
Registered:August 2009
Location: The Known Universe
Some of that stuff was originally supposed to be a source of income from selling to dealers.
Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295246] Thu, 15 December 2011 22:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1795
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
Quote:
Sorry for double posting. Managed to upload the saves related to previous bug report.


The saves might be helpful - unless you're using UC, in which I might not be able to test properly.

My guess is that some of these errors are related to something Wil473 mentioned after vehicle externalizations. If so, they stem from 1.13, not HAM, and will only be fixed when HAM is updated to the latest code (or merged into 1.13, whichever comes first). I have no estimate on when either of these things will happen, unfortunately. For now HAM tests only itself.

As to the others, they may or may not stem stem from HAM code, sounds like they might (and I stress, might) be caused by the Green Eggs, which means I'll have to alert Warmsteel - if and when he shows up. Again, if I can load the savegames properly, I'll see if I can solve these bugs myself - but that could take a while.

One important question though is whether you are still encountering these bugs with the latest HAM 5 version, because you reported them a while ago so I have to be sure.

Quote:
[still] No point in using rifles (may change with scopes).


I'm hoping that Wil473's latest coolness reshuffle may solve this issue, because rifles without scopes are and should be pointless. Some rifle-specific scopes, like the ones we have for the older weapons (in vanilla 1.13 it's the ZF-42 or No.32), should appear early on, making the rifles that can take them worth using as DMRs in the early game. With little or not variable power, and no ability to install them on any automatic weapons, you'll have an early-game weapon for accurate fire at sight-range (and possibly beyond-sight-range).

Quote:
[still] No point in using long barrel shotguns.


Perhaps shotgun pellets need to give normal suppression. Now that autofire is much more prevalent, shotguns should be allowed to suppress better, in keeping with the move towards realism. That is, when each pellet would cause as much suppression as a single bullet (or, at least, more than it does now). Similar to how fragmentation works.

[quote]

Quote:
thanks Rock
I enjoy the new features very much


You're welcome. Let me know if anything goes wrong with them.


Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295251] Fri, 16 December 2011 00:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
reVurt

 
Messages:67
Registered:March 2007
Location: The Great White North, eh...
Headrock
I could change it easily, but the question is: Should it even be possible to sell $0 items at all?


I'm fine with selling $0 items for $0. If I'm selling a bunch of items, I'm generally just trying to get rid of inventory clutter anyway. It's like, "Here Manuel, to thank you for taking these ten surplus flak jackets off my hands for a jar full of pennies, I'm going to throw in a free authentic WWII-era entrenching tool and my very own pet rock. You're a credit to your country, Manuel."

You could trash the $0 items, but that requires yet another step, in that you have an extra category of things you can't sell but have to remove using a slightly different mechanic. Getting rid of a bunch of stuff all at once via the selling interface is fine.
Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295252] Fri, 16 December 2011 00:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
reVurt

 
Messages:67
Registered:March 2007
Location: The Great White North, eh...
Headrock
Perhaps shotgun pellets need to give normal suppression. Now that autofire is much more prevalent, shotguns should be allowed to suppress better, in keeping with the move towards realism. That is, when each pellet would cause as much suppression as a single bullet (or, at least, more than it does now). Similar to how fragmentation works.


At the moment, I'm finding shotguns about as useful as teats on a bull. I'm all for increasing the suppression of shotgun pellets.
Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295257] Fri, 16 December 2011 01:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2031
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
As long as the shop keepers won't be affected (e.g. Jake is bying shovels for a few bucks), i don't mind if the mentioned scrap gives 1$ or not by selling from sector inventory. Smile

And i agree on shotguns: IMHO there's exactly one Char in game that can make use of shotguns ATM - Tony. Wink
Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295258] Fri, 16 December 2011 02:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1795
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
UPDATE

HAM 5.5 has been released. The download link is in the opening post of this thread.

Please extract all files: there are several new STIs you will need.

New features include:

1) 1024x768 and 800x600 Strategic Maps fixed. Icons are now significantly larger, pathing arrows are much more visible. A few textual cues have been removed (possibly reinstated later), so overall this is much cleaner. Town labels and SAM Site labels are now much more readable in 1024x768 (not yet in 800x600, having trouble finding a good font and it's less crucial in that resolution to begin with).
2) NCTH Shotgun suppression increased. Pellets will no longer have only a 50% chance of inflicting suppression: they will inflict the same suppression as bullets (EACH!). Please note that this applies ONLY to NCTH!
3) $0 Items sold for $0. This occurs only in the Strategic Map (selling with ALT-Click or ALT-SHIFT-Click).

Enjoy and report bugs please.


Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295259] Fri, 16 December 2011 02:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Cell

 
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Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295262] Fri, 16 December 2011 02:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
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9x, instead of 4.5x as before. That is assuming all 9 pellets come close enough to the target to inflict suppression at all.


Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295263] Fri, 16 December 2011 02:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Cell

 
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Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295264] Fri, 16 December 2011 03:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2031
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
Infact every Char in the game is indeed purely artificial, made of pixels and computer controlled .. Razz

It's still a game and sometimes playability trumps realism. IMHO. YMMV.
Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295265] Fri, 16 December 2011 03:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1795
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
UPDATE

HAM 5.5 Alpha has been reuploaded. Link is in the opening post. If you already have HAM 5.5 then all you need is the EXE.

This version has very minor edits which should've been included already:

1) Mine names and output now displayed in the same (larger) font on the 1024x768 map as town names.

2) Sector info boxes now display the correct sector names defined in SectorNames.XML (if they exists).


Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295267] Fri, 16 December 2011 04:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
knightofni

 
Messages:101
Registered:August 2011
Headrock
The saves might be helpful - unless you're using UC, in which I might not be able to test properly.

My guess is that some of these errors are related to something Wil473 mentioned after vehicle externalizations. If so, they stem from 1.13, not HAM, and will only be fixed when HAM is updated to the latest code (or merged into 1.13, whichever comes first). I have no estimate on when either of these things will happen, unfortunately. For now HAM tests only itself.

As to the others, they may or may not stem stem from HAM code, sounds like they might (and I stress, might) be caused by the Green Eggs, which means I'll have to alert Warmsteel - if and when he shows up. Again, if I can load the savegames properly, I'll see if I can solve these bugs myself - but that could take a while.

One important question though is whether you are still encountering these bugs with the latest HAM 5 version, because you reported them a while ago so I have to be sure.


Saves using AFS (HAM optimized) from wil.
I've checked, one bug has been solved (the combat CTD, probably linked to Green Eggs). Others are still alive and kicking.
As you said, it might be from this vehicle externalization. In that case, i guess you won't get much feedback for the late game, as we usually pick up the ice cream truck. I guess you could put a warning message in the first post, or maybe tai can prepare a new SCI ?

Headrock

knightofni
[still] No point in using rifles (may change with scopes).


I'm hoping that Wil473's latest coolness reshuffle may solve this issue, because rifles without scopes are and should be pointless. Some rifle-specific scopes, like the ones we have for the older weapons (in vanilla 1.13 it's the ZF-42 or No.32), should appear early on, making the rifles that can take them worth using as DMRs in the early game. With little or not variable power, and no ability to install them on any automatic weapons, you'll have an early-game weapon for accurate fire at sight-range (and possibly beyond-sight-range).

I guess a mix of coolness & handling wil solve this.

Headrock

knightofni
[still] No point in using long barrel shotguns.


Perhaps shotgun pellets need to give normal suppression. Now that autofire is much more prevalent, shotguns should be allowed to suppress better, in keeping with the move towards realism. That is, when each pellet would cause as much suppression as a single bullet (or, at least, more than it does now). Similar to how fragmentation works.



I've got mixed feelings about this. Already (pre HAM 5.5) shotguns give a lot of suppression - that's the only use i've found to them actually (as i was reporting). More of a good thing is not especially useful. To me it's more an issue of AP to draw, AP for single shot. I think that would make them useful at short range, while keeping their long range weaknesses.

UC opponents are using a lot of shotguns, i'll try to get shot at to get a feel for this change (if this is too much or still ok)
Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295268] Fri, 16 December 2011 04:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1795
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
Well if not for suppression, we could try raising their damage output...


Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295269] Fri, 16 December 2011 04:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Cell

 
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Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295274] Fri, 16 December 2011 05:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wil473

 
Messages:2815
Registered:September 2004
Location: Canada
Headrock
2) Sector info boxes now display the correct sector names defined in SectorNames.XML (if they exists).

Thanks, I just confirmed this is working now for the two airports and other (formerly) special locations.



Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295276] Fri, 16 December 2011 08:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
knightofni

 
Messages:101
Registered:August 2011
Headrock
Well if not for suppression, we could try raising their damage output...

That could help, but still, the main argument [according to me] against long barrel shotguns as they are now is the following :

1) Relatively inaccurate, so better used at short-range (10 tiles and less).
2) In short range situations, you often need to move to engage your target (enter a room, take a turn in a corridor)
3) Because shotguns are so AP intensive, in most cases, after moving you won't be able to shoot more than one time.
4) Whatever the suppression / damage, being a close from the enemy and having only one shot is a recipe for a dead merc, sooner or later - as your luck will run out.

As a summary, because of the way damage works (breath / ap / accuracy reduction), i'd rather have 80% chance to do around 10-20 damage (with autofire on a MP), than 40% chance to do 50 damage.

Or maybe i don't know how to use them properly.

Monade
Try MAM out!

I really like the work that MJOne has done with MAM on damage / penetration / tumble values, but it does share one of the main flaws of vanilla 1.13 with NCTH, in that handguns are the best weapons until scopes. Which is quite annoying (and i guess one of the main reason behind the complains about NCTH).

But having a .44 magnum do real damage, and all those tiny calibers do, well, tiny damage, damn that is so good !
Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295315] Fri, 16 December 2011 17:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
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Registered:March 2006
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I think it's because we can't actually represent the range disparity between guns. If the effective range of a rifle is 30 tiles, the effective range of a pistol - even a good one - should be 5 tiles. But then everyone would complain because 5 tiles is the length of a small plane Razz


Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295333] Fri, 16 December 2011 21:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1795
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
So that's it? HAM 5 is working properly for everybody?


Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295338] Fri, 16 December 2011 23:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1795
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
REUPLOAD

HAM 5.5a has been reuploaded. Link is in the opening post. You'll need the EXE, and a sound file that's in there because the EXE won't run without it (not used ATM, but required).

This version includes an important bugfix: Without it, it is impossible to open the Description Box in the sector inventory UNLESS you're in combat (i.e. the opposite of what should be).

And given that no one has reported this blatant bug, I can only surmise that no one is playing HAM 5.5.......


Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295339] Fri, 16 December 2011 23:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
reVurt

 
Messages:67
Registered:March 2007
Location: The Great White North, eh...
Headrock
This version includes an important bugfix: Without it, it is impossible to open the Description Box in the sector inventory UNLESS you're in combat (i.e. the opposite of what should be).

And given that no one has reported this blatant bug, I can only surmise that no one is playing HAM 5.5.......


Playing, sure, but in fits and starts. You know, I don't recall being able to right click on an object in sector inventory before to get its stats. Typically I've just picked it up first. Is that a newish feature, because IIRC, at some point right clicking on anything in the sector inventory closed the screen, and like the trained monkey I am, I've learned never to do that!
Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295340] Sat, 17 December 2011 00:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1795
Registered:March 2006
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Quote:
Is that a newish feature


... it's only about 2 years old, IIRC. Razz


Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295352] Sat, 17 December 2011 09:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ChonkE

 
Messages:17
Registered:January 2008
Location: Utah
Well the only problem I have had testing this thing has been fixed (the mass-sale misclick hangup thingy) and so far so good! Only problem with finding bugs is you work so fast it is hard to keep up ^.^
Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295378] Sat, 17 December 2011 22:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann

 
Messages:288
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
i have questions regarding the creation of scopes with variable magnification:

i have copied the whole entry of the scope 2x to the end of items.xml . i changed the uiIndex and uiGraphicNum , replaced the two bobby ray lines with and deleted the whole scope bonuses except ScopeMagFactor, which i changed to 1.0 (i think the last step is unnecessary, but just to be sure).

then i created an entry in Attachments.xml with a test weapon and two entries in Item_Transformations.xml . so far, so good.

when i test them ingame, the scopes transform into each other perfectly if seperated from the weapon. but when i try to transform them while they are attached to the test weapon, i just hear the "transform-click-sound" and then immediately a crash to desktop. i also tested the transformation of existing scopes into each other, but with same result: crashing if attached to a weapon.

do i miss something or is the whole transformation system not supposed to work that way?

(the test weapon was the thompson m1928 smg with a default inseperable foregrip, but i doubt that's the problem because i already have successfully created a dozen of transformable weapons with default inseperable attachments to test a fold/unfold stock mechanism.)
Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295379] Sat, 17 December 2011 22:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1795
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Wow that would be a little difficult for me to replicate... You could do what Redwolf did: Pack up all your XML and INI files (anything you changed from default 1.13) and send them to me with a savegame.

That way I hopefully would be able to test the specific issue you're having.


Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295382] Sat, 17 December 2011 23:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wil473

 
Messages:2815
Registered:September 2004
Location: Canada
Since I'm testing AFS v3.60 RC2 HAM 5 Optimized, I tried the already known to be setup Variable Power Scope from a while back. I can confirm that attached to a weapon, the VP Scope transforms that worked several versions of HAM ago are now now causing a CTD.

EDIT: odd, after I loaded up HAM 5.4a to see when the CTD started (no problems), HAM 5.5a is no longer CTD'ing... I'm going to reboot and see if I can make HAM 5.5a CTD (perhaps it was a fluke that my first attempt to demo the CTD, CTD for reasons other than the item transform).

EDIT2: Got it to CTD now both with HAM 5.4a and 5.5a, if you do the transformation of the scope immediately on loading the save game no CTD; but if you do a non-attached item transformation first (ie. a stock transition, or simply removing the VP Scope and changing its magnification while in the merc's hand) and then do a item transformation of an attached VP scope the CTD happens. I've got a few older HAM 5's so I'll see where this started.

EDIT3: somewhere between HAM 5.2a and HAM 5.2.2a this bug crept in. In HAM 5.2a, the scope can be pulled off the weapon, transformed as a standalone item, put back on the weapon and transformed as an attachment without problems. Reloaded HAM5.2.2a and the same sequence of events will CTD the game. I don't have any .exe's in between 5.2a and 5.2.2a to test with, so I'm going back to cleaning up AFS.

[Updated on: Sun, 18 December 2011 00:01] by Moderator



Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295388] Sun, 18 December 2011 01:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Slax

 
Messages:1439
Registered:July 2006
Location: People riding polar bears...
Oh Christmas HAM! oh Christmas HAM!
I want to play you so damn bad.
Oh Christmas HAM! oh Christmas HAM!
You make me smile when killing... mans.

Merry snowtime, errybody :crazy:

Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295391] Sun, 18 December 2011 02:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1795
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
Quote:
I can confirm that attached to a weapon, the VP Scope transforms that worked several versions of HAM ago are now now causing a CTD.


So can I, but the dreaded thing happened again: It is a bug that occurs only in Release mode. This will make it exceptionally difficult to debug - but I will try.


Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295394] Sun, 18 December 2011 03:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wil473

 
Messages:2815
Registered:September 2004
Location: Canada
Probably the largest re-balance to NCTH so far: Alrulco Folding Stock v3.60RC2 HAM5 Optimized 20111218

[Updated on: Sun, 18 December 2011 04:05] by Moderator



Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295397] Sun, 18 December 2011 04:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1795
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
REUPLOAD

HAM 5.5a has been reuploaded. Link is in the opening post. If you're up to date, all you need is the EXE.

This version solves the very nasty issue with attached Variable Power Scopes (or other transforming attachments). Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

It was a really tough one, which resulted from me doing something that ChrisL warned me about just prior to HAM 5.2.2. There needs to be more testing work to figure out whether it's functioning 100% properly, but I failed to crash the game after a considerable number of attempts, so it should be fine.

Let me know.


Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295405] Sun, 18 December 2011 13:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tango

 
Messages:105
Registered:July 2006
Not sure if this is HAM related or more to do with the latest AFS 3.60RC2 but I'm getting a runtime error with the latest 5.5a version when I try to launch it:

Error:
Line 616
Loading External Map Sector (to do with coolness I think)

Along with:
Line 851

EDIT:

Not a HAM bug will report it to Wil. The crash if occurring due to a lack of a CoolnessBySector XML file in the RC2 files (the VFS setup does not read the one in the Data HAM folder.

[Updated on: Sun, 18 December 2011 13:28] by Moderator

Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295410] Sun, 18 December 2011 14:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1795
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
That makes no sense... If the file is there, and VFS is properly set up, it should look for the file in the HAM folder if it can't find it in any of the preceding folders...

[EDIT: I see the problem, it's a small oversight by Wil. I'll report it on the AFS thread.]


Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295446] Mon, 19 December 2011 03:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1795
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
UPDATE

HAM 5.5.1 has been released. The download link is in the opening post. If you are up-to-date, you should need the EXE as well as several STIs (extract the entire INTERFACE folder as appropriate).

This version fulfills a promise I made a while ago about merc movement arrows showing how far along they are into the next sector. This is done with position and color of the arrow.

When a team has just begun to move out of the sector, the movement arrow will be inside the sector boundaries, and colored blue.

As the team approaches the destination, the arrow will shift colors - first to greyish, then to yellow as you get near. IT will also move appropriately: crossing the border into the next sector. The team arrives when the arrow is fully yellow and inside the destination sector.

Comments on this will be appreciated, especially the colors used.


Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295471] Mon, 19 December 2011 19:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
reVurt

 
Messages:67
Registered:March 2007
Location: The Great White North, eh...
Headrock
As the team approaches the destination, the arrow will shift colors - first to greyish, then to yellow as you get near. IT will also move appropriately: crossing the border into the next sector. The team arrives when the arrow is fully yellow and inside the destination sector.

Comments on this will be appreciated, especially the colors used.


Works nicely, from what I've seen so far. If anything, the effect is a little understated in 1024x768. The colours seem a touch bland to me, but I'm not sure what I'd replace them with, to be honest. In a way, the transition happens too fast to really appreciate the colour changes at the fast time compression, but I suspect if were to use a slower time compression (with multiple teams in the field that need coordinating) that this would be more helpful, but even then the grey and the yellow are a touch too similar to quickly differentiate. While the yellow blends in with the square border color nicely, it doesn't really denote the sense of urgency implied by entering a new, potentially dangerous sector.

That's my two cents, for what it's worth.
Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295482] Mon, 19 December 2011 22:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Soren

 
Messages:14
Registered:December 2011
Testing Report:
Mods/Version:
Special SCI + Ham 5.5a + MAM 2.4.5 + a few custom extras

Bugs:
When transforming a stack of items via Sector Inventory OR in a merc's inventory, if the items are not all of the same condition, the system only uses the TOP of the stack item's condition to generate additional items.

Example:
I have a stack of 3 t-shirts, 90%, 82%, and 20%. If I tear them up with the 90% one on top, I get 4 90% Rags, an 82%, and a 20%. (Instead of 2 of each.) This has been a bug since the stack transformations were fixed. I would have commented earlier, but this is my first post as my account just got approved (a long post, too!)

Also, BP costs ARE charged out of battle. AND they are charged to the truck! E.G., in my extras, you can melt down steel items into chunks of steel (good ol' JA1, I use the silver nugget pic). Chunks can be turned into steel tubes and springs. Anyway, put a steel helmet into the truck, transformed it into two steel chunks in strategic map/sector inventory. All my gas disappeared Sad Not necessarily a bug, but I figured you should know.

Feature Comments:
I went through and fixed all the integral stocks and bipods, as well as adding in variable power scopes for the 7x (2x, 4x, 7x) and 10x (2, 4, 6). I didn't change the ACOG (it is a fixed power scope, see below). Also added open/close for grippod.

All in all, it works VERY well. Some weapons that were kinda weak with integral retracting/folding stocks become much more usable when you can pop the stock out and send some accurate aimed bursts downrange. Excepting for some very hard to raise weapons (shotguns, especially), if the AP cost for extension/retraction is not zero, there is little advantage to popping the stock in every time you move/reload/do something that requires re-raising the weapon and then popping it out to fire - you just keep the stock out. However, on the first use, this can save considerable APs. The main advantage is the ability to remove the penalties imposed on a lot of integral folding stock firearms that vanilla 1.13 imposes. For my money, I set the AP cost to 1, no BP cost, and I think this is relatively reasonable. It makes fiddling with SMG stocks kinda useless, but adds power back to, say, the Colt 9mm (competes well with the Steyr AUG Para again).

Bipods/grippods are a bit different. There is a considerable penalty for using them when not prone, and allowing the user to fold them up for a more reasonable penalty (it still IS a bit of metal on the weapon, so it makes handling worse) when crouched makes them much more handy. My sniper with a SL8 can use it crouched/bipod closed or prone/bipod open, as circumstances dictate.

Balance Issues:
It has been mentioned many times before, but with NCTH, coolness rebalancing of items is almost required. With MAM's increased shotgun effectiveness, these make excellent coolness 1-3 suppression weapons with buckshot (at which point you transition naturally into submachineguns, then assault rifles, then LMG/MGs). I hesitate to suggest MORE weapons, but we might want a few more really sucky SMGs and especially more sucky LMGs. Older scoped rifles (Garand/Mauser, and to lesser extent, the M1 Carbine) are not really as effective as, say, a Sterling or even in some cases the Baikal-233 - fire and maneuver is really the way to win. The AI will use suppression, but has few options in the early game (Glock 18/Scorpions are probably the most common, as well as 93Rs and the occasional SMG/shotgun). A bulky, ugly LMG is just the right thing for the enemy to use in, say, the DCA, and it makes sense too! With generally superior numbers, the AI should be using suppression to beat up my mercs, but at least on Expert, they don't.

In general, (and I speak as someone who played JA1, DG, 2 pre-1.13, vanilla 1.13 OCTH, then NCTH), I love NCTH. It does make the game different, but really, in OCTH you need about 3-5 shots per kill, and that's even more silly than Hollywood. Lugging around a ton of ammo makes no sense, and it cuts out a whole logistical subdimension of the game. Suppression also makes stealing EASIER - while one merc is firing SMG/shotgun suppression rounds, another is running closer to steal your stuff. Good times. (With MAM's price structure, stealing weapons is VERY much worth the trouble. A merc can pay for themselves with one or two swipes. And, I admit, I upped the daily cash that Tony has.)

Too many guns can accept good attachments in even vanilla 1.13 (I cut a lot of the addons that MAM made there, too). The advantage of certain weapons, especially modern ones, over others (especially older ones), is the compatibility with better attachments. (This is true of the ACOG - it can 'add' reflex sights to weapon, which is nice on, say, the Mini-14). Pistol silencers are probably the worst offenders - everything, almost, can use them, so guns with dedicated threads for suppressors lose big time (I'm looking at you, Mk 23 ...)

Items that need fixing:
The ACOG is a fixed sight, but should probably be given some other bonus to compensate. It's a good choice for assault rifles/carbines (3-4x is about your engagement range for those, I find). Maybe a night bonus?

ISM-V-IR needs serious tweaking since NAS came out - there's little need to save slots as before, and the fact that scopes are de rigeur in NCTH makes it pretty useless.

MP5N - I recommend a night bonus due to the Surefire light forestock, but a stealth penalty too (hey, what's that light?)

Further Transforming Ideas:
I am probably going to try making a 'buttstock' item - rifles/SMGs can transform into it. It represents hitting someone with the stock - a blunt weapon. I am not sure what, if anything, will happen to the attachments on said weapon, so I will report back when I overcome laziness and do it.

I also think being able to turn off flashlights/lasers (no aim bonus, but no stealth penalty) would be nice. Also, as mentioned in the MP5N, SureFire forends are on my to do list. For 0-1 AP, it makes sense to sneak up on the enemy without the laser/light on, then turn it on and let 'em have it.

Also, I am open to advice on how to model firing .38 Specials out of a .357 Magnum weapon. I am pretty sure we can't do this now (though, admittedly, I haven't tried). You SHOULD be able to, though; a simple 0 AP transform to switch between the same picture weapon, but alter the stats and ammo type.

I am finally also considering making a test system for the interchangeable MP5 family - change a barrel here, a trigger module there, and voila, your MP5N is now a MP5/40. This would mostly be to test the transforming abilities to 'take apart' weapons. Granted, I am terrible with graphics, so it won't look good, but as I am the only one looking at it, who cares?

Sorry if this came out so long ...
Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295483] Mon, 19 December 2011 23:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Headrock

 
Messages:1795
Registered:March 2006
Location: Jerusalem
@ Soren: Thank you for your feedback, it was a very interesting read.

Quote:
Bugs:
When transforming a stack of items via Sector Inventory OR in a merc's inventory, if the items are not all of the same condition, the system only uses the TOP of the stack item's condition to generate additional items.


I still need to get around to that. I was hoping to be able to transform just ONE item in any stack, but I ran into difficulties with that. I need to make that work, and I will eventually.

Quote:
Also, BP costs ARE charged out of battle.


I intentionally did this, because IMHO they should be. But I didn't consider vehicles. I think I'm going to forbid transformations when an item is loaded into a vehicle.

Quote:
adding in variable power scopes for the 7x (2x, 4x, 7x) and 10x (2, 4, 6)


Isn't that overdoing it? A 10x scope doing 2x would be very very bad balance-wise. 7x should maybe do 4x-7x, while 10x does 6x-10x or something... I'm just afraid that If they can go to 2x, they'll make sniper rifles and DMRs uber-useful again...


Re: HAM 5 Alpha - You know it!![message #295485] Tue, 20 December 2011 00:02 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Soren

 
Messages:14
Registered:December 2011
Headrock
Isn't that overdoing it? A 10x scope doing 2x would be very very bad balance-wise. 7x should maybe do 4x-7x, while 10x does 6x-10x or something... I'm just afraid that If they can go to 2x, they'll make sniper rifles and DMRs uber-useful again...


Honestly, I have no RL experience using scopes, and (perhaps due to weak Google-fu), I couldn't really find a tremendous amount of data on what would constitute a reasonable setting on a variable power scope. (1.5x-7x isn't ... very informative.) Even with the ability to hit short range targets with a sniper rifle, the question is WHY you would do so ... for example, even a max tricked out SL8 in a Sniper's hands will get at most 2 or possibly 3 shots off (max aim, of course). In the same amount of time, a SMG can put 5 or 10 times the amount of lead downrange, and given the odds of missing (using a 90-ish DEX/90-ish MRK Sniper, a hit is not guaranteed), you are better off transitioning to another weapon or letting your mercs with short ranged weapons take the shot. With a real sniper rifle, the number of shots is worse. The 2x gives the sniper the option, in an emergency, to engage short range; the AP cost of setting down the rifle/bipod again is the counterbalance to transitioning to your backup piece. A really good pistol with scope in that range is probably a better option, even, but the SMG is the best.

Update: (figured I'd save a post)
I added a Colt Python that fires .38 Specials. Works fine, and as a bonus, HAM auto-ejects the incorrect ammo (I suspect this is part of the 'incompatible attachment' check code ...), so you can't cheat and use HPS's as stand in for AETs. Back and forth transforms work as well.

I decided to abandon the buttstock idea, as I realize you'd have to make one for each weapon (!!) otherwise there is an easy exploit (I turn my MP5 around, and I get a stock to hit you with. When I reverse it ... it is a M16 ...) if guns share buttstocks.

[Updated on: Tue, 20 December 2011 23:46] by Moderator

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