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4870 + NCTH = Expert start harder than Impossible start ?[message #300075] Thu, 23 February 2012 15:33 Go to next message
nkoulaf is currently offline nkoulaf

 
Messages:5
Registered:February 2008

I recently installed build 4870 and started playing with NCTH. In theory i like NCTH a lot, however it doesn't blend well with the current way the game applies difficulty settings. NCTH is good at making sure you wont kill 5 enemies with 1 magazine, unless you are so close you would be (much) better off with a melee attack (throwing knifes is very effective too). This fact is exaggerated by not having scopes and lasers (which, depending on settings, you might not see for a long time).

Even with enemy drops all items ON, attacking patrols is not worth it because of the amount of ammo you go through vs the loot you get. Tony doesn't have nearly enough ammo so you are left with bobby ray. If you attack the airport only, you get a 20-30 man counter attack. How long are you supposed to wait before you take the airport, to have enough money to have BULLETS for 30 men? You can barely carry the ammo you need at this point. You need 6 imps and a new gun for each (10mm is unavailable at this point). Selling pistols is not going to give you much, and even if it did, you loot the ammo anyway because tony has a couple of clips a day.

Now compare this to Impossible. The enemy drops a TON of everything with drop all items OFF, a couple of days of ambushes (i.e. you don't clean sectors, get the gear and leg it back to tony) and you have your team with the weapons they are specialists at, with more ammo for them you can shake a stick at, probably quite a few grenades and if not full attachments, something pretty close to that. Now with OCTH, 30 enemies with pistols are cannon fodder for 6 imps with any weapon + any militia they might have trained.

I could bring 1 Imp into the discussion but i understand that this is specialized kind of play, if you play 1 imp expert you should not take any cities any time soon. This is more of a warning to fellow players that NCTH and expert is about the worst combination you can choose. You are too weak for too long, you pretty much have to see half the map and take out a hundred enemies before you have a CHANCE to see the equipment you need to start serious operations.


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[Updated on: Thu, 23 February 2012 19:01] by Moderator

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Private
Re: 4870 + NCTH = Expert start harder than Impossible start ?[message #300093] Thu, 23 February 2012 17:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann is currently offline Strohmann

 
Messages:287
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
for the next posts, please use paragraphs.

the standard 1.13 versions are balanced for OCTH. you can try AFS or other similar mods or some of the following steps:
  • increase starting money
  • increase percentage values in EnemyAmmoDrops.xml
  • attack at night, use hit-and-run tactics
  • write a custom EnemyGunChoices.xml. for example in mine rifles and smgs appear at the start, assault rifles at 30% etc.
  • rearrange coolness of scopes, lasers etc./ invent new ones. for example i have one for rifles-only whit magfactor 3 that appears at 10% etc.
    ...

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Master Sergeant
Re: 4870 + NCTH = Expert start harder than Impossible start ?[message #300171] Fri, 24 February 2012 06:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ryft is currently offline Ryft

 
Messages:278
Registered:June 2009
With drop all on, I've not had any serious ammunition shortages in NCTH at any difficulty. Obviously I'm also not trying to make use of 10mm weapons on my team, though. I rely on stuff that the enemy already drops plenty of... 9mm, 5.56, etc.

Strohmann makes some good suggestions. Some of them very good, actually. I might elaborate:

-With IMPs, I modified their "best" weapon choice from the KAC PDW to the MP5. That's a big help with ammo early on if you aren't planning to take the airport right away, since basically they make use of the 9mm pistol ammo that drops regularly.

-increasing the percentage value for EnemyAmmoDrops.xml is also a fast and easy way to fix your ammo shortage if you aren't playing with drop all on.

-I highly recommend making or finding a different EnemyGunChoices.xml file... the default is not well balanced at all for NCTH, and it's rather poorly laid out for OCTH at that. In general you want something that has a broader selection of weapons at all progress levels... yes, some pistols. But also some semi automatic carbines or rifles, some shotguns, and maybe some other antiquated weapons... machine pistols or perhaps older SMGs. And you should also maybe alter the coolness level for scopes so that they appear at different points than the default. Strohmann's idea to add new scopes/lasers to the game can be time consuming (though not hard) because you would have to add them as a possible attachment for every gun in the game that you'd want to use them on, but altering the coolness of the few existing attachments (to make them appear in BRs faster) would be pretty fast.

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Master Sergeant
Re: 4870 + NCTH = Expert start harder than Impossible start ?[message #300218] Fri, 24 February 2012 19:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
imij0607 is currently offline imij0607

 
Messages:12
Registered:February 2012
i've been having some problems starting out on experienced mode with NTCH system. i've not played the OTCH so i really have no point of reference. i'm sure it has a lot to do with my tactics and not having enough patients, but 15 on 6 gets kinda sticky if your not dropping them asap. one thing i've thought of right out of the gates is to buy up some better weapons like assault rifles with my initial starting money and using them to equalize the number and then switch to back up weapons. if i take the airport this sounds plausable as i would be able to order more ammo.

any thoughts?

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Private
Re: 4870 + NCTH = Expert start harder than Impossible start ?[message #300276] Sat, 25 February 2012 06:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ryft is currently offline Ryft

 
Messages:278
Registered:June 2009
Hrm... hard to say. If you're a new player, it could very well be your tactics, but then again it might not be. More information on your team makeup, your available weapons, and how you're playing the game are going to inform us if your tactics are the answer there or not. That includes things like your .ini file settings, game settings, and so on. Your initial impulse to take the airport is a solid one... most people start a campaign that way. There are a ton of reasons that the game basically steers you towards Drassen at the start, and the airport is definitely part of it.

Buying weapons like assault rifles *can* be a good choice, but not always. Assault rifles are going to be not terribly accurate at better ranges unless you can also purchase a scope of some kind for them. They *are* going to be able to go full auto, which can potentially net you more chances to hit a target, and at least suppress them when you miss (assuming you have suppression enabled). Of course, shooting a weapon on full auto is also going to chew through ammo pretty quickly, causing you to possibly rely heavily on that airport for supplies until you start to see enemies dropping that caliber of ammunition.

What I recommend is that you make use of the autofire, without dealing with expensive rifles and ammunition (especially if you cannot purchase an optic to go with it). Probably this means purchasing some quality submachine guns... the Steyr 9mm Para is a popular choice, because it has a terrific range for a submachine gun, and it comes in the most common pistol caliber for 1.13 ever. It also has a built in foregrip, which helps you rock and roll with those autofire attacks. If you can score a used one, snap it up immediately. It will serve you well potentially through the entire campaign, and definitely through most of it if you favor night operations.

I can also recommend the MP5A4 (built in burst fire for mercs with lower shooting stats, and takes good attachments) and the Colt SMG (also great attachments, kind of good all-around). Both come in 9mm... see what you can scrounge up on a budget at Bobby Rays. Those weapons can take you pretty far, actually.

In general, I play cautiously. I tend to let interrupts do most of my work. This means conserving action points during my turn as much as possible. To play this way, your mercs should be near one another (without being on top of one another) and cover each other's backs. Each merc covers a certain firing arc. This strategy relies heavily on vision range, and to a lesser extent knowing where the enemy is coming from, so I put a premium on securing certain equipment even more so than guns (although upgrading from pistols immediately is certainly still desirable). Telescopic scopes, sun glasses, and premium night vision goggles let me see the enemy before they see me. Binoculars can accomplish similar results in a pinch. Extended ears let me hear which direction the enemy is in. Glow sticks, flares, and their counterparts for grenade launchers and mortars light up night battlefields and force the enemy to make themselves visible. Smoke, tear gas, and mustard gas grenades deny the enemy vision range during the day.

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Master Sergeant
Re: 4870 + NCTH = Expert start harder than Impossible start ?[message #300447] Tue, 28 February 2012 00:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sabresandy is currently offline sabresandy

 
Messages:65
Registered:February 2012
Smoke grenades are definitely underrated. The secret is to issue one to each merc; when it's oh-shit time, have everyone pop smoke simultaneously. you can deploy a fast, wide, linear smokescreen and redeploy. Useful when you're pinned down by a sniper.

As for tactics, my main tactic is to take advantage of the AI's propensity to charge, and the fact that you're already deployed. Get into a good position, have everyone drop prone or crouch (to watch the flanks), and open fire on targets as they approach you. Carbines and rifles at range, SMG bursts at shorter range. It's trench warfare: attrit at range, increasing the damage output as they get closer.

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Corporal
Re: 4870 + NCTH = Expert start harder than Impossible start ?[message #300452] Tue, 28 February 2012 01:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ryft is currently offline Ryft

 
Messages:278
Registered:June 2009
Yeah... especially during the day... start a firing line, with designated marksmen picking targets from beyond unmodified sight range. They start shooting, as half the time the enemy runs back and forth panicking, rather than being productive. If they actually start to get close to your team, that's when the rest of the line opens up with shorter range weapons.

You can try the same tactic decently at night if you use a spotter in an advanced position. It helps if they are camouflaged and stealthy. As long as the enemy doesn't come too near to the spotter, just keep them still and hidden, and let your team snipers draw all the aggro, so to speak.

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Master Sergeant
Re: 4870 + NCTH = Expert start harder than Impossible start ?[message #300472] Tue, 28 February 2012 08:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaerar is currently offline Kaerar

 
Messages:2022
Registered:January 2003
Location: Australia :D
It's so nice being able to use spotters now. It used to be the AI would charge for the nearest merc and if it was a spotter then he/she'd be toast Wink

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Lieutenant

Re: 4870 + NCTH = Expert start harder than Impossible start ?[message #300561] Wed, 29 February 2012 06:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ryft is currently offline Ryft

 
Messages:278
Registered:June 2009
As an aside note to my above post. It helps a ton if the night time spotter approaches at an angle to the rest of the team. In addition to not wanting to need to shoot through the spotter, last night some of the enemy did decide to charge the sniper position, rather than run back and forth like chickens. And of course, the spotter was the first thing they ran into. I was forced to give up my advanced position on account of it, and it was a minor setback.

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Master Sergeant
Re: 4870 + NCTH = Expert start harder than Impossible start ?[message #324003] Thu, 15 August 2013 13:23 Go to previous message
Fins_T is currently offline Fins_T

 
Messages:89
Registered:January 2012
Location: Russia
nkoulaf

... This is more of a warning to fellow players that NCTH and expert is about the worst combination you can choose. You are too weak for too long, you pretty much have to see half the map and take out a hundred enemies before you have a CHANCE to see the equipment you need to start serious operations. ...

That's why i tried it in Ironman with some minor .ini tweaking - NCTH Expert Ironman. Went quite interesting for a long while, but then became too easy. You can read more in this topic^ http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/board/ubbthreads.php/topics/299128/Ironman_s_field_notes_1_13_bui.html#Post299128 .

Alas, YMMV, of course.

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Corporal 1st Class
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