Home » CHIT-CHAT » Politics Pit » How to get out of Afghanistan.
How to get out of Afghanistan.[message #301652]
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Tue, 13 March 2012 11:49
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abradley |
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Messages:225
Registered:December 2001 |
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Quote:Bringing Real Life to American Strategy in Afghanistan
by Christopher Bassford
Journal Article | March 3, 2012 - 11:26am
Anthony Cordesman
[Updated on: Tue, 13 March 2012 11:50] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Sergeant 1st Class
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Re: How to get out of Afghanistan.[message #301668]
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Tue, 13 March 2012 14:27
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Did you read it? It is not that profound. The writer says this in basics:
US can not steal resources and drugs by force.
US must bribe Afghanis and withdraw leaving political allies.
US must hire Pakistanis to do it's bidding.
20-30 years from now, the Afghani people wil be nostalgic of when US invaded Afghanistan..
It won't work. It is ridiculous. It is TERRORISM!!!
Fact: Nobody in recent history has been able to conquer these people.
Our soldiers fight for pay checks.
There soldiers fight for an idea freedom.
Our representatives fight for materialism.
There representatives fight for survival.
How do you expect to defeat an enemy like that?
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Re: How to get out of Afghanistan.[message #301680]
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Tue, 13 March 2012 15:55
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No, not everything must be profound, but it would certainly help the writer's agenda if he thought out his objective plan with some depth.
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Re: How to get out of Afghanistan.[message #301721]
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Wed, 14 March 2012 06:51
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Where I come from, people join the military because they have no other options (or so they believe). They either can't find work or believe that they can make killer money/benefits. The problem is that the armed services do not pay a third of the lies they promise. Sorry I don't agree with your US patriotism motive. Not from 18 year old kids and minorities. Check out demographics for armed services. Point is, in 22 years how much money did you make, not including benefits, free pills, retirement, et cetera? Now, how much does an Afghani fighter make for defending his his/her home?
By the way, to fight in today's army one absolutely can not be a patriot because you are breaking your oath to defend the constitution.
[Updated on: Wed, 14 March 2012 06:54] Report message to a moderator
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Re: How to get out of Afghanistan.[message #301722]
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Wed, 14 March 2012 09:03
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abradley |
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Messages:225
Registered:December 2001 |
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KaerarabradleyAs for "Our soldiers fight for pay checks.", I can honestly say that after 22 years in the USAF the paycheck wasn't my reason for staying in. Plus I never met anybody in any of the US military services who served for the pay check.
Dead right they started with idealism (for some), not wanting to think or having a desire to be a git to others. Then comes the indoctrination where they are trained to fight to defend a piece of worthless cloth for a very poor level of monetary compensation.
Then after 22 years they realise they've been duped if they haven't been killed.
OR they have sucked in the doctrine so well they think of themselves as patriot's which IMO is one of the scariest things you can encounter. Not the way I see it, more like this:Quote:
http://www.usgennet.org/usa/wi/county/eauclaire/history/ourstory/vol5/bataan.html
Some men will never forget 'Bataan'
Millions of Americans have been killed, wounded and suffered misery in defense of this country during its 200-year history.
Four Eau Claire men fought only briefly in World War II, but it marked the beginning of four years of torture, beatings and misery.
Their fight was brief because America was ill-equipped and not prepared when the Japanese struck Pearl Harbor Dec. 7, 1941.
{Snip}
Made American flag
Clifford Omtvedt, center, and John Hryn, right, both of Eau Claire, show off a special flag in this photograph taken shortly after World War II. At center is fellow prisoner Col. Ralph Artman. The flag was made by Omtvedt, Hryn and other prisoners while in a POW camp in Japan during World War II. When liberation came, the freed prisoners raised the flag on the prison camp's flag pole. It was the first American flag to fly over Japanese after the war ended. It is now in a Ft. Lee, Va., museum.
While in prison camp Omtevedt, along with other prisoners, made an American flag from red, white and blue parachutes used by American planes to drop food supplies.
It was 11 a.m. Aug 18 when the Japanese lowered their colors and the makeshift American flag was raised. It went up before any American forces reached Japanese soil and was the first to fly over Japan at the end of the hostilities.
It was raised daily until Sept. 13, 1945, when the prisoners marched to freedom. Omtvedt carried the flag at the head of the column.
Omtvedt kept the flag and later presented it to the U.S. Government. It was placed in the Pentagon and is now in the museum at F. Lee, Va.
Hryn came to Eau Claire for a visit with the Omtvedts in 1947. He liked the city so much he decided to move here. One benefit of their imprisonment is the warm and lasting friendship forged through mutual experiences.
In April of 1967 Hryn and Omtvedt returned to The Philippines to attend dedication of a memorial on Corregidor and to walk one mile over the route of the infamous death march.
Keilholz was unable to attend because of his condition and Bruer said he didn't want to go.
"To this day I have no desire to return," he said.
Omtvedt said his return trip helped dispell a lot of bad dreams. Can't see it as worthless ... but I wouldn't.
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Sergeant 1st Class
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Re: How to get out of Afghanistan.[message #301738]
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Wed, 14 March 2012 14:25
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Many, many reasons sir. One major would be that Afghanistan is fought because of an executive order and not declared through congress.
Are you aware of what your government has been doing in the last 30 years?
Also,
The US army is a capitalistic army of a kleptocratic republic. Their duty is to protect and secure investments. The brotherhood between humans is still there though. This is because the enemy you have been designated is trying to avert your presence. Your livelihood is threatened. The threat of death can create bonding not unlike the reciprocal of love. You are also rewarded for your actions. Since you were not selected and mandated to fight, you are essentially a mercenary. This is because of the pay involved. They entice young men who are developed enough physically. The young men are rather limited mentally being so young. Many are minorities who do not have a way out of the inner city ghettos. Others, are juvenile offenders looking for a way around going to lock up. Still others, are kids who played violent video games.
To fight in today's army is not a glorious life experience. You do not stand for human truths, such as, freedom, justice, and equality. America's revolutionary war was glorious. The war of 1812 was a defensive war and thus was glorious. Off the top of my head I can not think of any other wars that were not antagonistic in nature. I feel for the men and women who witness pain and misery within the institution of war. I don't necessarily have emphatic feelings with their judgement.
The next war will be on you. What will it be called? Civil? Revolution? Watch the signs. The savage time is almost here.
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Re: How to get out of Afghanistan.[message #302116]
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Wed, 21 March 2012 11:54
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We went to Afghanistan for drugs bub. Also, the billion $ plus resources sitting underground.
When taliban was in control opium production was nonexitant due to Islamic law. When Team America came in, opium production sky rocketed. Opium, morphine, codeine, heroin. Pills, pills, pills.
Edit:
Osama Bin Laden = Emmanuel Goldstein
What's up Will? How's JA retirement?
[Updated on: Wed, 21 March 2012 11:57] Report message to a moderator
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Re: How to get out of Afghanistan.[message #302169]
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Wed, 21 March 2012 23:06
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abradley |
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Messages:225
Registered:December 2001 |
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taoWe went to Afghanistan for drugs bub. Also, the billion $ plus resources sitting underground.
When taliban was in control opium production was nonexitant due to Islamic law. When Team America came in, opium production sky rocketed. Opium, morphine, codeine, heroin. Pills, pills, pills.
Edit:
Osama Bin Laden = Emmanuel Goldstein
What's up Will? How's JA retirement? :confused: Why did we go into Afghan because of drugs when the Taliban had stopped the drug trade?
As to Goldstein, how is the state going to pull that off without 'complete' control of the medis, Nixon couldn't even control the media enough to stop Woodward and Bernstein.
Look at all the leaks during the Bush admin.
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Sergeant 1st Class
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Re: How to get out of Afghanistan.[message #302170]
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Wed, 21 March 2012 23:17
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abradley:confused: Why did we go into Afghan because of drugs when the Taliban had stopped the drug trade?
As to Goldstein, how is the state going to pull that off without 'complete' control of the medis, Nixon couldn't even control the media enough to stop Woodward and Bernstein.
Look at all the leaks during the Bush admin.
To throw that poppy seed.
That is not in the context of what the term "Emmanuel Goldstein" means.
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Re: How to get out of Afghanistan.[message #302194]
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Thu, 22 March 2012 16:30
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abradley
Who was your slave previously?
Do your own research.
...
Just Kidding...or maybe I'm not...
Poppy Seed
Emmanuel Goldstein
By the way, the CIA has not provided any documents or factual evidence to the pentagon regarding Osama Bin Laden's death. Check it out.
Edit:
Also, we are very fortunate to be living in a time of semi-transparency. This may not be the case in the near future.
[Updated on: Thu, 22 March 2012 16:30] Report message to a moderator
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Re: How to get out of Afghanistan.[message #302215]
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Thu, 22 March 2012 22:13
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abradley |
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Messages:225
Registered:December 2001 |
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taoabradley
Who was your slave previously?
Do your own research.
...
Just Kidding...or maybe I'm not...
Poppy Seed
Emmanuel Goldstein Ahhh, yes! But there's a difference between your wanting me to tell you who Thomas Sowell is and my wanting to know what a the phrase like 'Throw that poppy seed' means, Thomas Sowell is well know and easily researched, a phrase like 'Throw that poppy seed' isn't even a quote ... I googled it after you posted with these results
http://www.chabad.org/holidays/purim/article_cdo/aid/1404/jewish/A-Throw-of-Dice.htm
http://www.chabad.org/holidays/purim/article_cdo/AID/1404/ShowFeedback/true
http://www.iheartnaptime.net/poppy-seed-salad/
http://forum.opiophile.org/archive/index.php/t-387.html
and many more ....
Ok, which fits you meaning?
As for Emmanuel Goldstein, I replied to your "Osama Bin Laden = Emmanuel Goldstein" with "
As to Goldstein, how is the state going to pull that off without 'complete' control of the media, Nixon couldn't even control the media enough to stop Woodward and Bernstein." and you replied "That is not in the context of what the term "Emmanuel Goldstein" means." then I asked "OK, what does "Emmanuel Goldstein' mean?", now you supply a Wiki link to the man, where in that link does it tell me the context your using?
tao
By the way, the CIA has not provided any documents or factual evidence to the pentagon regarding Osama Bin Laden's death. Check it out. Neither has the LAPD, Strange things are happening!
tao
Edit:
Also, we are very fortunate to be living in a time of semi-transparency. This may not be the case in the near future. :confused:
[Updated on: Thu, 22 March 2012 22:14] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Sergeant 1st Class
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Re: How to get out of Afghanistan.[message #302433]
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Mon, 26 March 2012 20:39
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Will GatesBull, the Taliban certainly traded opium; how else did they fund themselves?
It gained diplomatic recognition from three states: Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates.
The only source of information pertaining to the Taliban using opium for economic advantages was this:
Chouvy, Pierre-Arnaud (2010). Opium: uncovering the politics of the poppy. Harvard University Press. pp. 52ff.
Then:
In 2000, the Taliban had issued a ban on opium production, which led to reductions in Pashtun Mafia opium production by as much as 90%. Soon after the 2001 U.S. led invasion of Afghanistan, however, opium production increased markedly. By 2005, Afghanistan had regained its position as the world
[Updated on: Mon, 26 March 2012 20:56] Report message to a moderator
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Re: How to get out of Afghanistan.[message #330563]
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Wed, 12 February 2014 23:28
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Anthropoid |
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Messages:145
Registered:February 2014 |
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Historians will be debating the whys, wherefors, hows, whithers and what nots for at least 100 years, and I doubt there will be a clear consensus even up to that point.
Only thing any of us can say with any true certainty is that it is a true shit swirl, and anyone who loves life, freedom, and liberty should be quite sullen about that. The trouble to come out of and stir around in Afghanistan is hardly over and that is a bad thing for everyone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjoMQJf5vKI[/video]
[Updated on: Wed, 12 February 2014 23:32] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Sergeant
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Re: How to get out of Afghanistan.[message #330626]
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Sat, 15 February 2014 19:56
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Anthropoid |
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Messages:145
Registered:February 2014 |
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The one thing that Mao's red book doesn't take good account of is the innate human desire for affluence. That basic human drive is at the heart of why the USSR fell apart, why China has transformed into a proto-market economy, and also why China's oligarchs are living on borrowed time. If they as a social caste wish to retain power, they must stay one step ahead of their disenchanted populace.
So no, he was categorically _wrong_ to refer to the U.S. as a "paper tiger."
Cardboard Trojan Horse, with Doctor Who-esque Mallscape inside, perhaps.
The ONLY reason Afghanistan was not fully pacified within 3 years, is that Americans and the world do not have the stomach to do enough killing to bring Pakistani, and Afghani society to Germany/Japan 1945 stage . . . I am one American who most certainly does not have the stomach for it. And yet, as a social scientist and student of history, I am troubled by the murky threats posed by unresolved conflicts for future generations.
The sad and somewhat ironic part is that, this Western gentleness and compassion will almost certainly be viewed by the upcoming generation of would-be Jihadis as a sign of weakness, and an imperative to strike again, and to make 9/11 (and the other post 9/11 attacks in Madrid, Istanbul, London, etc.) look like a drive-by shootings.
Perhaps when they get their hands on a stray Russian artillery nuke, and lob it into a packed bowl game killing ~80,000 we in the West will fully understand what we are dealing with. Perhaps there will come a groundswell of full appreciation for what William Tecumseh Sherman was referring to in his 1864 letter to the Atlanta city council:
Quote:You cannot qualify war in harsher terms than I will. War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it; and those who brought war into our country deserve all the curses and maledictions a people can pour out. I know I had no hand in making this war, and I know I will make more sacrifices to-day than any of you to secure peace. But you cannot have peace and a division of our country. If the United States submits to a division now, it will not stop, but will go on until we reap the fate of Mexico, which is eternal war. The United States does and must assert its authority, wherever it once had power; for, if it relaxes one bit to pressure, it is gone, and I believe that such is the national feeling.
[Updated on: Sat, 15 February 2014 20:05] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Sergeant
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