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| Advice on Awesome Factor needed[message #302346]
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Sun, 25 March 2012 05:55 
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 Ryft |
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Messages:278
Registered:June 2009 |
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So I'm working on a new weapon progression to replace my Russian/Warsaw Pact one, and I'm completely stuck on AR choices. There are just SO MANY to choose from.
Best guess right now is that I have to narrow it down to around 18 or so choices, with three weapons appearing at each stage of six stages in the enemygunchoices.xml file. I could maybe kick it up to 24 weapons if I get desperate, but I'd prefer not to. I'm trying to weed out weapons that are either not iconic enough, cool enough, or variants that are too similar to one another.
I do have separate categories for shorter and longer ranged rifles, so mostly I'm looking at stuff that has a range between 30 and 40, here. I think the 6.8 caliber rifles are in the 45ish range, but they and a few others are rare exceptions. I'll try to group stuff near like weapons as much as possible:
Enfield L85A2 (it's a British bullpup! However, this rifle has one more aim level than other bullpups...)
Galil SAR (The only other Galil I have in the progression is the Micro Galil)
SIG SG540 (Unable to mount a rifle LAM.)
SIG SG550 (this rifle's stats are mediocre to inferior, and I have enough SIG 55's now.)
SIG 551 SWAT (burst capable is nifty, so it stays for now. typical stats otherwise.)
HK G3KA4 (The G3A3 is in with the longer ranged stuff, so worst case scenario a G3 is represented already.)
M4A1 (probably the most iconic rifle of the 21st century.)
M16A1 and M16A4 (The older M16 has more style, and is also more interesting within its class.)
FN SCAR-H CQC (among ARs with ranges in the high 30s, this rifle rules. Quicker, better damage, better range, better accuracy.)
FN SCAR-68 CQC (significantly higher damage than its competitors, with the obvious disadvantage of no C-mag. Stands out, so it stays.)
Diemaco C7A2 (Canadian and an original JA2 inclusion, so a tip of the hat there. It also has good rate of fire and recoil within its class.)
FAMAS G2 (no dissing it just because it's French! However, this bullpup, despite having a great rate of fire, can't use a foregrip or rifle LAM. Stylish, though.)
Tavor TAR-21 (Not only does this weapon kick ass, but the IMI Uzi and Micro Uzi are iconic weapons in the SMG and machine pistol categories in this progression.)
SAR 21 (not as iconic, and also inferior stats to the other bullpups. one more aim level, poor burst stats if you use a trigger group, and no C-mag availability.)
HK G36 RAS and G36K RAS (There's a G26C with the shorter range stuff, and the G36K is also slightly inferior to other weapons within its class. The G36 RAS is typical, but it's style points are holding out.)
HK 416 16" and 14" (the 16" is a more useful weapon within its class, whereas the 14" is not notable in any way.)
HK MG36 RAS
Ares Shrike (I need to compare this with the MG36. I like both weapons a lot. Hopefully they get to stay.)
Steyr AUG A2 (foregrip with a grenade launcher!)
Steyr AUG HBAR (another one that needs evaluation.)
Steyr AUG A3 (I need to check out some in-game comparisons between this, the M468, and the OSW...)
Robarms XCR-1
Bushmaster M4A3
Barret M468 (so far this makes the initial cut amongst the 6.8 M4 clones, if barely. They are nearly identical in stats.)
HK 417 (simply not as competitive as the other range 43-48 rifles, and the 416 is better known, anyway.)
FN FAL OSW (speedier than the M468, but also lesser range and worse recoil. A very cool weapon, but the FAL is at least already represented in the battle rifle part of the progression.)
So that's 29 20 weapons that I need to shave down by two more. Hopefully I don't decide to add anything else in. Narrowly missing the cut already: Beretta AR 70/90 (feels like an M16 clone to me, without any real improvement over being both burst and autofire capable), AK-108 (an AK in a western caliber is pretty awesome. That said, my last campaign already featured all of the AKs, so I'm sort of getting tired of them), FN FNC (FN makes weapons that are better known, honestly), KAC SR-47 (this thing is awesome in its own way, but in this progression it would be a caliber all to itself. That said, I probably should have considered ordering this through BR to pack in my previous campaign. I've not compared it to the AK series, but it's probably competitive).
The sniper rifle category is going to be another rough one for me, but one step at a time.
[Updated on: Sun, 25 March 2012 09:29] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Master Sergeant
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| Re: Advice on Awesome Factor needed[message #302357]
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Sun, 25 March 2012 10:50 
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| sabresandy |
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Messages:65
Registered:February 2012 |
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On a somewhat arbitrary basis, I suggest cutting the following rifles: HK G3KA4 (it's functionally a G3 with a folding stock), M16A1, SCAR-H CQC, the SCAR-68, the 14" HK 416, the Galil, two of the three SIG rifles, the Barrett M4A3, the SAR 21, and the XCR-1. That will leave you with a nice mix of 5.56 and short-barreled 7.62x51 rifles, most of which are fairly recognizable.
I do see three rifle LMGs in there, though. Have you put any thought about where in the revised drop tables they'll fit? The HBAR is an ultra-steady assault rifle, the MG36 is somewhat closer to a true LMG (before getting outclassed by the Minimi), and the Shrike is an odd midway, kind of like an M4 with a built-in C-mag adapter.
Also, at risk of making the list longer than it really needs to be--the newer-model Kalashnikovs, the 10Xs and the Grozas and all those, probably deserve to be up there as well. In many ways an AK-108 is closer to an M16A4 than an AKM, especially when it comes to attachments.
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Corporal
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| Re: Advice on Awesome Factor needed[message #302399]
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Mon, 26 March 2012 01:59
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| Ryft |
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Messages:278
Registered:June 2009 |
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SabreOn a somewhat arbitrary basis, I suggest cutting the following rifles: HK G3KA4 (it's functionally a G3 with a folding stock), M16A1, SCAR-H CQC, the SCAR-68, the 14" HK 416, the Galil, two of the three SIG rifles, the Barrett M4A3, the SAR 21, and the XCR-1. That will leave you with a nice mix of 5.56 and short-barreled 7.62x51 rifles, most of which are fairly recognizable.
Right now, the G3KA4 is probably on the chopping block, since as you say, it's basically a G3, and I have one of those in another category. The 14" 416, two of the three SIG rifles, the SAR 21, and the XCR-1 are already history. I kept the Barrett over the Bushmaster, but honestly one is nearly as good as the other... they (and the XCR-1) are all M4 pattern rifles in 6.8 SPC, and they are nearly identical in stats, to boot. The M16 A1 stays over the A4, if only because of the vintage. Both SCAR variants stay, because they are both standout weapons within the comparison of their closest competitors. Only downside there is that there's a third SCAR in with the battle rifles, but whatever. I can't ignore stats completely.
I think, at this point, since I'm down to 20 weapons, is that I'm going to sneak the Shrike and MG36 in with the machine gun progression, which will keep a solid balance there.
Quote:I do see three rifle LMGs in there, though. Have you put any thought about where in the revised drop tables they'll fit?
Yup. Going to likely compare them to the rifle section of things, because they honestly compare to those better than to the actual machine guns. At least, that's what my gut tells me. The data will speak true one way or the other.
Quote:Also, at risk of making the list longer than it really needs to be--the newer-model Kalashnikovs, the 10Xs and the Grozas and all those, probably deserve to be up there as well. In many ways an AK-108 is closer to an M16A4 than an AKM, especially when it comes to attachments.
The AK-108 was already on my list, and ultimately didn't make the cut because the previous progression I used was, well... 95% AK variants. And the rest were Grozas, and Russian specialty weapons like the Vintorez, AS-Val, and Vsk-94. You get tired of playing with the same weapons repeatedly... that's why I'm making these custom progressions, because it forces me to scavenge new equipment, and shakes me out of old habits.
To give you an idea, I've never bothered using a G36 or SIG of any kind. I know, blasphemy, right? I've also never used any of the Uzi variants, despite the fact that I had a green molded plastic full scale toy uzi when I was a kid, and thought it was the bomb because I could act like Chuck Norris in Delta Force.
Oh, and for anyone interested, here's a smattering of the other categories, in approximately their order of appearance.
Pistols: M1911A1, M1911A1 Hi Cap, FN Pro-9, SIG P226R, HK USP, Colt Delta Elite, HK Mk23 SOCOM, FN Five Seven
Machine Pistols: Skorpion vz 82 (the only weapon from my previous list to carry over, actually), GLOCK 18, HK MP5KA4, IMI Micro-Uzi, Steyr TMP, HK MP7A1, FAMAE Mini SAF
SMGs: Ingram M10, Spectre M4, Cobray M11/9, Jatimatic, Walther MPL, Beretta M12, Uzi, FAMAE SAF, HK MP5A4, HK MP5/40A3, HK MP5/10A3, HK UMP45, Colt 9mm SMG, Steyr AUG Para, FN P90
Shotguns: Remington M870, Fabarm FP6, Benelli M4 Super 90, USAS-12
Short range rifles: Micro Galil, XM177E1, Colt M4 Commando, HK 416 10", HK G36C, KAC PDW, SIG 552 Commando, Magpul PDR, FN Scar-L CQC. This list needs trimming, but it won't be that hard.
Battle Rifles: FN FAL Carbine, FN FAL, HK G3A3, SIG SG542, M14 EBR, SCAR-H SV. This list is yet to be evaluated, but I'm not anticipating anything will be cut here, either.
Machine Guns: CETME Ameli, HK 23E, HK MG43, FN Minimi SPW, FN Minimi, FN MAG. Final, but again I might slip the AR/MG hybrids in here somewhere, conveniently.
And again, sniper and marksman rifles are another sticky situation.
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Master Sergeant
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| Re: Advice on Awesome Factor needed[message #302559]
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Thu, 29 March 2012 17:34
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| Ryft |
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Messages:278
Registered:June 2009 |
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Well, this didn't turn out as bad as I feared... because marksmen weapons in this progression start right from Omerta with HEZIs and Beretta Storms, I was able to fit almost everything. I guess I'll leave off the Walther, since it's actually a rare gun and is almost worthy of the "sci-fi" tag. It seems unlikely that such an expensive rifle, and one that's a collector's item at that, would see any kind of battlefield usage.
You know, outside of maybe being the personal weapon of some eccentric mercenary, or something. :crossbones:
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Master Sergeant
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