Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » Flugente's Magika Workshop » New feature: Traps can now be built with firearms
New feature: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #305634] Wed, 06 June 2012 01:15 Go to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3509
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
<font size=""> Traps made out of guns and a piece of tripwire </font>

I made another small feature that improves one's defensive capabilities. We are now able to use firearms in traps.

  • Attach any firearm (any gun, no RPGs, Mortars or GLs) to a piece of tripwire. You will need the newest xmls for that.
  • You can plant the tripwire as you usually do.
  • Once activated, the gun that is attached to the wire will fire once. It will fire in the direction that you planted the bomb, just like claymore mines do (the direction that the merc planting the wire was looking).
  • The bullet fired has the range and damage it would have if fired from the gun.
  • The gun correctly heats, jams, degrades and whatever else guns do when fired. If the gun is jammed, not pumped (pumpguns) or does not have ammo, it will not fire.
  • After firing, the gun lies on the floor, just where the trp was planted.
  • This can be applied to any tripwire. You can ave multiple of these traps. Just put them into your normal trap setup however you like.
  • At the moment, only single shots are possible, even for guns that do not have a single shot mode (MG3 etc.)
  • Although I did not experience any problems with attachments, it might be a good idea to take any attachments off a gun if you attach it to tripwire.
  • When the gun is attached, it is possible to attach gun attachments (lasers, scopes etc.) to the explosive. This is not intended, its a bug resulting from my poor .xml skills :bawling: . Do not attach any attachments to the explosive. They will be lost if the wire is activated.
Demonstration pics:

http://i50.tinypic.com/qzprhh.jpg
Barry has set up a few traps, consisting of tripwire (yellow), 2 claymores (red) and 2 gun traps (orange)

http://i50.tinypic.com/osy3qt.jpg
After stepping on the wire, the claymores explode, and the 2 guns fire, they can be seen on the floor.

http://i50.tinypic.com/zjxoat.jpg
Any gun can be attached, though only one at a time.

http://i47.tinypic.com/2h7e6xj.jpg
Barry activates a trap and hits Red with it...

This will not break any savegames. I will send this to RoWa in 5 minutes.

Go build more traps!

P.S.: The reason I open a new thread for every new feature is because people might be interested in them, but not find them if I just attach to the same thread over and over again...

[Updated on: Sun, 15 May 2016 18:20]

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Captain

Re: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #305636] Wed, 06 June 2012 07:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Madd_Mugsy

 
Messages:634
Registered:July 2005
Location: Canada
Quote:
When the gun is attached, it is possible to attach gun attachments (lasers, scopes etc.) to the explosive. This is not intended, its a bug resulting from my poor .xml skills . Do not attach any attachments to the explosive. They will be lost if the wire is activated.


I'm guessing this means you didn't code in a solution to AttachObjectXAS? I can take a look at it - might save on the massive amount of XML changes required by modders to support this feature. And I can probably solve the gun attachments issue while I'm at it...


EDIT: Done for AttachObjectNAS; I'll take a look at AttachObjectOAS tomorrow.

I discovered something interesting with gun attachments though. I managed to get it so that you can attach a gun with its attachments intact, with no additional slots created. The attachments cannot be removed until the gun is removed from the tripwire as well. But they don't disappear! And you can look at them by right clicking on the gun once its attached. This means that things like the rod & spring and other inseparable attachments should be ok. It also means that you can put a silencer on your gun if you want. I haven't tested whether these attachments of attachments work though, as I'm still working off of old code (didn't want to waste time @1am with SVN updating).

BTW, do we want a skill check to be performed? Which sound do you want to play? Currently it plays the detonator sound, since tripwire is an IC_BOMB.

EDIT: OAS is done now too. Skill check added; ATTACHING_DETONATOR check used. Sound changed to the standard gun attachment sound.

EDIT: After testing, it turns out that the attachments on the guns appear to continue to work when attached to tripwire! I was able to make a silenced pistol trap Smile

I'm going to commit this code now, as it solves the lasers-attaching-to-tripwire issue, and we can revise later if need be.

Note to all - new xmls are not required for this feature anymore. Just the latest exe.

[Updated on: Wed, 06 June 2012 20:02] by Moderator

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First Sergeant

Re: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #305654] Wed, 06 June 2012 21:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
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@Mugsy: Very good. Thanks for taking care of that, would have taken me hours of doing that (and propably wrong).

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Captain

Re: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #305657] Wed, 06 June 2012 22:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wanne (aka RoWa21) is currently offline wanne (aka RoWa21)

 
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Nice work guys Smile

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Sergeant Major

Re: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #305660] Wed, 06 June 2012 22:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Slax is currently offline Slax

 
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Any critical failures? "Just gonna rig this shotgun to fire when someone walks over t- AGH MY FAAAAACE!"

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Sergeant Major
Re: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #305662] Wed, 06 June 2012 23:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PasHancock is currently offline PasHancock

 
Messages:720
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Flugente,i know that this is very good feature and everything,i am not saying that i dont like them,i like them!But dont you think that you give Mercs too many advantages?You made many traps recently,that gives load of advantages for mercs,maybe you could do something for AI too?Just suggesting

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First Sergeant
Re: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #305664] Wed, 06 June 2012 23:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
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Well, I will eventually allow mappers to use those features in their maps too. For tripwire, for example, there are networks dedicated to the enemy only (which means that the player cannot place them). I can't give a date as to when that will be.

Problem with features is that people would propably not use them if they give them disadvantages.

I already did a bit in AI (zombies have their on AI). Although tweaking the AI is fun, it is also complicated with the current setup. If you are interested, in the AI, I recommend reading this diploma thesis: http://www.google.de/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=manuel%20ladebeck%20jagged&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CFYQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ke.tu-darmstadt.de%2Fbibtex%2Fattachments%2Fsingle%2F136&ei=sb3PT4aiDIfStAaIz_z5Cg&usg=AFQjCNEs77P3BGo1ScYxPPSvV2x4kzlNPQ

Yes, there is a diploma thesis that deals with ways to improve the Jagged Alliance 2 AI Smile And it is rather well-written.

However, Warmsteel is currently working on the AI. I currently have some other coding projects to do, so I won't interfere with him there.

Unless I suddenly think of something and just implement it, which isn't rare.

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Captain

Re: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #305665] Thu, 07 June 2012 00:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Madd_Mugsy

 
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Just a thought, because I haven't had time to try it -- does this feature allow for guns to use burst/autofire? Would be pretty sweet to hook a mimimi up to a tripwire and let it fly...

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First Sergeant

Re: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #305666] Thu, 07 June 2012 00:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PasHancock is currently offline PasHancock

 
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ok Wink

Also,did you wanted me to make Running or Walking or both animations for zombies?Because by the end of the week i will probably finish animation(depends on my atitude+getting ready for english exam),but i made like 50% and i want to know if i am doing everything right,so what do you need?Walking,Running or both?

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First Sergeant
Re: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #305668] Thu, 07 June 2012 00:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
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@Mugsy: No burst/Autofire yet. Problem is that in order to do that, I would have to wair for the time between shots, which is bad because the shots happen during the handling of the ExplosionQueue - long story short: If i did that, it would take a lot of time ingame, and chained explosions would take a lot longer than they do now.

@PasHancock: Walking would be truly zombie-like, but then they'd be even less of a danger, because it would take them ages to reach someone.

So, Running has priority. Thank you!

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Captain

Re: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #305669] Thu, 07 June 2012 00:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PasHancock is currently offline PasHancock

 
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dont forget that there can be hordes of them,so 1 running horde = game over

p.s:How are you going to code animations?

[Updated on: Thu, 07 June 2012 00:59] by Moderator

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First Sergeant
Re: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #305671] Thu, 07 June 2012 01:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
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Coding them? No idea. I plan to just replace the old anims if the actor is a zombie. Dunno how that works, but you and Sandro did I before, so it has to be possible Smile

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Captain

Re: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #305675] Thu, 07 June 2012 01:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PasHancock is currently offline PasHancock

 
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yeah but he is abscent lately...dont know where he is and he is the only one who understands animations coding in this forum...Maybe you could learn animation coding,because you are the most active coder right now

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First Sergeant
Re: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #305678] Thu, 07 June 2012 02:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Soto Banaris is currently offline Soto Banaris

 
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Flugente
Attach any firearm (any gun, no RPGs, Mortars or GLs) to a piece of tripwire. You will need the newest xmls for that.

:compcuppa: Sweet! New toys to play with... Say... What's next? Flugente, if you're handing out presents that early in the year, you have nothing left for christmas. Very Happy

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Sergeant
Re: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #305680] Thu, 07 June 2012 02:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Madd_Mugsy

 
Messages:634
Registered:July 2005
Location: Canada
PasHancock
yeah but he is abscent lately...dont know where he is and he is the only one who understands animations coding in this forum...Maybe you could learn animation coding,because you are the most active coder right now


I doubt it's that difficult. I can take a stab at it if needed. I'd have the same thought as Flugente though - just replace the anims when the soldier = zombie.

Problably need both running and walking anims, as I see quite a few walking zombies as is.

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First Sergeant

Re: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #305688] Thu, 07 June 2012 04:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TClaymore is currently offline TClaymore

 
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...HOPY SHIT THIS IS AMAZING. Like...bug-free implementation of tripwire traps and HAM5 would just make my freakin' day. This is great stuff. Thank you and your team (if there is one) soooo much for all your hard work!

EDIT: On closer reading, looks like this might have a bit longer to go. Lack of autofire or even burst would make certain guns more or less a flea bite...unless they would attract a soldier's attention, and they run off in that direction to search for a merc that doesn't exist? Either way, so long as it's single-shot only, sniper rifles would probably be good guns to use. Good use for a spare KSVK, I would guess.

[Updated on: Thu, 07 June 2012 05:05] by Moderator

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Private 1st Class
Re: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #305717] Thu, 07 June 2012 19:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Soto Banaris is currently offline Soto Banaris

 
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TClaymore
...On closer reading, looks like this might have a bit longer to go. Lack of autofire or even burst would make certain guns more or less a flea bite...unless they would attract a soldier's attention, and they run off in that direction to search for a merc that doesn't exist? Either way, so long as it's single-shot only, sniper rifles would probably be good guns to use. Good use for a spare KSVK, I would guess.


Incorrect. Not only sniper rifles would do the trick. Imagine a door with some space to place a trap. Now imagine you placing one or two shotguntraps there. Now, let's think what happens if an enemy comes through that door... Or place a lot of shotgun traps in a corridor. Whoever wants to go through that, must be insane! Dart traps might be funny as well. Very Happy

More of a problem will be choice. Will you plant explosive traps and leave plenty of room between them so they don't blow up at once or tightly packed guntraps. Keep in mind that explosives might harm the walls helping you to defend a place.

With a much larger variety, soon we won't need milita anymore, just someone to stay in the sector.

Got a question about tripwires, because an idea plopped into my mind right now. Let's say, I place a claymore on the edge of a roof and tripwire on the ground. Nothing would happen if the wire was triggered, right? Otherwise this could be a way to aim for the heads with claymores since the fragmentation goes directional but up and down as well.. Very Happy

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Sergeant
Re: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #305718] Thu, 07 June 2012 19:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
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Tripwire does not work from a roof to the ground, or vice versa.

The problem with burst/auto fire is that it would require some really really ugly hacks in the way explosion queues are handled. Unless I find a better way than I can think of at the moment.

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Captain

Re: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #305722] Thu, 07 June 2012 20:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
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Does the "just single shot only" also apply to a full-auto-fire-only gun in a trap?

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Sergeant Major
Re: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #305724] Thu, 07 June 2012 21:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
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Yes. Every gun can fire only one shot atm.

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Captain

Re: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #305729] Thu, 07 June 2012 23:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
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Thx. Smile

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Sergeant Major
Re: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #305885] Tue, 12 June 2012 20:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TClaymore is currently offline TClaymore

 
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I am not sure how I managed to forget shotties. Well-played, sir and/or madam!

EDIT: I do have a question for Flugente. If the bullet hits or passes close enough to a soldier or the soldier's close enough to the gun when it fires, will they run to investigate the sound?

[Updated on: Wed, 13 June 2012 06:35] by Moderator

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Private 1st Class
Re: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #305919] Wed, 13 June 2012 14:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
afftor is currently offline afftor

 
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Tripwired guns make my game ctd. For single tripwire with gun attached works fine, but if i connect it to other tripwires it just crushes when i cross it.

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Private
Re: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #305942] Thu, 14 June 2012 04:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
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Altough I did not test it fully, the shots should alert the enemy just as normal bullets do.

@Romm: how many guns did you connect? If you happen to play with standard 1.13, can you upload a savegame prior to the crash?

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Captain

Re: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #305943] Thu, 14 June 2012 11:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
afftor is currently offline afftor

 
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I've rechecked it and bug seems to be gone, probably its my screwing around XML editor breaks it. Btw single save from xml editor breaks shovel for sandbags making it cursor appear as ?
Is there any workaround about that?

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Private
Re: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #305944] Thu, 14 June 2012 11:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot is currently offline DepressivesBrot

 
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Wait for a new XML editor, use the old one only for looking and a text editor for editing till then.

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Captain

Re: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #305950] Thu, 14 June 2012 18:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TClaymore is currently offline TClaymore

 
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Whooo! Considering that, that should actually be enough to offset the whole "only one bullet" deal even for full-auto. Also, having it be one bullet only is probably the more sensible option, from a logistics standpoint. Even with a machine gun, you'd only really want a distraction...and you don't want to give the enemy a loaded weapon if they end up finding it. So, one bullet means you're sure that if it fires, they won't have anything they can really use against you.

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Private 1st Class
Re: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #305965] Fri, 15 June 2012 00:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
afftor is currently offline afftor

 
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Not sure if it's my custom bug (screwing around xmls and such again), but when i use a shotgun with buckshot load it uses whole mag instead of only 1 ammo. No increased damage, but incredibly soundy tough.

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Private
Re: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #306048] Sun, 17 June 2012 02:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
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Update: I made a fix that should fix any problems that can occur when using a lot o gun traps (for some people, the game could crash when using a lot of guns).

I also corrected the buckshot error. Thanks for spotting that, Romm.

The revision is 5346.

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Captain

Re: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #306070] Sun, 17 June 2012 16:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sandro is currently offline Sandro

 
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Registered:November 2008
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Am I the only one concerned about the aim of your features, Flugente?

I see your great skills, and more importantly dedication, but what is your goal actually - in which direction you want JA2 to evolve?
You have added a lot of contraptions lately, which impact are hard to fully oversee. And they are eagerly added to SVN (even zombies). As I mentioned in sandbags thread - they may bring more exploits against the AI. There are already enough exploits that kills the game's tactical depth.

You said that making features that would make the game more difficult would result in people not using them... I don't agree. I would be happy to see more challenging stuff, if made with intelligence. Like to make possible to have more than 64 enemies in one sector at once, more (Drassen) counter attacks, moving tanks etc.

For me, I would be more happy to see the gameplay "rather goes deeper... than wider", if you know what I mean.
SO I'll repeat the question: What is your aim?

I don't want it to sound disrespectful, I am just a little concerned what is happening to my beloved game piece.. Smile Whether enough thought was put behind...

-----

As for the animations - you do have to code in any new animations, and to tell the code how to handle them. It is not hard when you figure out how that system works, but if you would need some info I can help.

PasHancock:
It is not like I am away. I just don't have everyday access to the internet, since I moved. But I still work on JA2, and even have some features prepared for release by now.

[Updated on: Sun, 17 June 2012 16:58] by Moderator

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Master Sergeant

Re: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #306076] Sun, 17 June 2012 16:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot is currently offline DepressivesBrot

 
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I don't see the problem. Everything is exploitable if you lack the minimum of self control to apply this stuff in sensible quantities. Besides, you soon reach a point of diminishing returns anyway between the effort (i.e. time) to cover each and every tile in wire and bombs and the gain (i.e. damage to the enemy) you get from that. It isn't more or less exploitable than setting starting funds to 1.000.000.000 or making a full squad of 100-in-every-stat, 30 traits super IMPs with 100g custom Spectra suits and ridiculously overpowered .22lr pistols.

Sure you can wire off whole corners of the map, but the average player won't do it as it predictably kills the fun. It just adds a bit of variation to the basic give-everyone-a-sniper-and-shoot-them-in-the-head routine.

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Captain

Re: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #306077] Sun, 17 June 2012 17:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sandro is currently offline Sandro

 
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True dat.

I just had to epress my little concerns about where all this is actually heading.

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Master Sergeant

Re: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #306085] Sun, 17 June 2012 20:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
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I add features that I myself would like to see ingame. I began with the zombies and quickly decided that others might want to have those features too, thats why I'm here.

My motivation mostly comes from the feeling that there isn't enough 'interaction' with the surroundings going on. Thus the focus on explosives and traps.

I'm trying to evolve the mechanics a bit. I know that this sometimes can leave exploits, however:

Spamming the map with sandbags/barricades requires time and ingame money. The exploit with 100s of concertina wires is possible but it requires the player willingly do so. This game is already open to all kind of exploits (raising your money, editing your equipment/mercs, various existing exploits...). If a player wants to use them, I won't stop them - they'll ruin their game themselves.

Setting up traps also requires a bit of planning. Seeing that someone already opened a thread where he wants to discuss trap layouts, I think this actually adds to the depth of gameplay. Same for overheating, I think this can differentiate weapon choices more.

Once the tripwire stuff can be correctly be preplaced in the map editor, I think map creators like smeag will plant quite a few nasty surprises themselves, upping the difficulty on attacks.

If I deem a feature unsuitable for JA2, I either don't do it or don't add it to the trunk, like most of my WH40K stuff. The corruption concept also gives a bit more depth to character development, but doesn't fit standard JA2 imho (considering the skills, not the concept of learnable 'traits' per se).

That the AI cant use these features fully is a result of it not being able to due to the AI. A better AI would be a solution to many problems, including the fact that sheer mass is the only way they are dangerous.

Last but not least: all those features are optional. If they feel like an exploit, one can simply turn them off.

Also: I plan to one day increase the number of enemies that can be in a sector, as you mentioned. As you propably know well, these changes could be huge, until now I've shied away from that.

Is there any other particular concern you have, except for the barricade abuse?

Thanks for your post. I like it when people actually question what I do (in a polite way).

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Captain

Re: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #306087] Sun, 17 June 2012 21:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Maalstroom is currently offline Maalstroom

 
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well, to be honest, zombies!? really? can you make that option appear only in SF mode? i really don't like it and i think it doesn't belong. but the rest it's great stuff!!! keep it up!

sandro about what features are you talking about?

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Master Sergeant
Re: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #306090] Sun, 17 June 2012 22:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
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zombies appear only if you set that option. Why should it also rely on Scifi, when there's already a specific option about it? I don't get why people constantly ask about this, honestly.

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Captain

Re: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #306099] Mon, 18 June 2012 01:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
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Maalstroom
well, to be honest, zombies!? really? can you make that option appear only in SF mode? i really don't like it [..]

Then do not activate this option. Boah, that was easy. Razz
Honestly, no need to integrate it in SF mode only.
(Just imagine somebody wants to have zombies but not the SF related stuff and things ...)

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Sergeant Major
Re: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #306101] Mon, 18 June 2012 01:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot is currently offline DepressivesBrot

 
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Exactly, they are orthogonal concepts, not linked in any way.

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Captain

Re: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #306257] Thu, 21 June 2012 20:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sandro is currently offline Sandro

 
Messages:420
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I am not a fan of zombies either. In its current state that is.

There is no graphical support. Unlike for crepitus and bloodcats, no animations (yet). And since you would need quite a few animations (standing idle, running/walking, attacking, half-body crawling lol) to look properly made (for me at least), I am not optimistic in this point.

No quest related to it, or any other story/environment related stuff.
For example, if there would be a chemical plant somewhere in Alrulco, which would cause the zombie infestation, or whatever... maybe after XY% game progress queen would release a virus to slow your progression... it would feel a little more meaningful. Otherwise how so that dead people rise and become zombies just like that?

In its current state, this feature does not fit JA2 for me. Not to mention the option is in the preferences, it should go to ini at least.
And I also vote for making it for sci-fi mode only. How is it different from crepitus in realism? If you want to play realistic, you want to enjoy the feeling of realism, why is there a switch for zombies looking at you from preferences then?

That's for my opinion on zombies. And I actually like the idea itself, it is the state of the feature that makes it unfitting. Since it was added to SVN trunk... well..

Anyway sorry for hijacking this thread.
....

Flugente:
I'm glad for your reply.
Your features are so fancy, that I feared a little that JA2-1.13 could become overflowing with all kinds of contraptions, and the actual gameplay would suffer, that's all. I would like JA2 to stay JA2, not to try to make Minecraft from it or something, if you know what I mean. But my fears were probably irrational. Smile
Overheating, on the other hand, is a very nice feature and I am never gonna play my games without it now. Big thanks.
Uh.. and same for resting weapons on obstacles, cool and meaningful. Smile

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Master Sergeant

Re: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #306267] Thu, 21 June 2012 22:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
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Not arguing on zombies missing animations - thats just outside of what I do. Same for queststuff.

But please tell me: why should it be in the ini, and a Scifi-only option? I mean... what is the benefit of making it more complicated to activate the feature? This is a honest question, I really cant figure out why people want this in SCIFi-only.

To be honest, in my personal opinion options should go to the preferences menu whenever possible. And as few as possible should have to be set at gamestart. I find it extremely frustrating having to start a new campaign if I say, just want to switch from OCTH to NCTH. For quite a few of the features that are only settable at campaign start, there is no justification code-wise.

Thanks for your reply too. I'm really looking forward to seeing that certain rpg-project of yours Smile

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Re: Traps can now be built with firearms[message #306272] Fri, 22 June 2012 00:23 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Maalstroom is currently offline Maalstroom

 
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Registered:December 2008
Location: en route to San Hermanos
Flugente, when pashancock returns i'll talk to him about zombie anims. And next month i'll probably help him.

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