Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » Flugente's Magika Workshop » New feature: Constructable static fortifications (sandbags etc.)
Re: New feature: Constructable static fortifications (sandbags etc.)[message #314491] Mon, 21 January 2013 12:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
arkanglesk

 
Messages:29
Registered:June 2011
Great! Thanks, now I know I need to change that, Ja2set.dat.xml so the game'll know the stis have been moved, now all I need to do is find it... clues appreciated Razz

By the way, what are .jsd files?
Are those some kind of header for the sti?
What program do I need to view/modify them?
Do I need to mess with those or just copy/past?

Pls bear w/me, I'm really interested but don't really know much about modding...

by the way, just came to me...
Quote:
Originally posted by DeppressivesBrot:
No, they weren't and yes, it is that much work. Adding subsets for special stuff like this is relatively straight forward - making them really useable in the editor is a tough nut.


If we just add the subsets, would we be able to build fortifications in-game even if they're not placeable via editor?

[Updated on: Mon, 21 January 2013 12:12] by Moderator

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Re: New feature: Constructable static fortifications (sandbags etc.)[message #314505] Mon, 21 January 2013 15:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3745
Registered:July 2009
jsd's hold structure information. Without a jsd, a sandbag is just a pic you can walk through, see through, shoot through with anything, ... There should be editors on kermis ftp, under tools. http://kermi.pp.fi/ Copying should be enough though.Quote:
If we just add the subsets, would we be able to build fortifications in-game even if they're not placeable via editor?
Maybe, but it's a really evil hack.

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Re: New feature: Constructable static fortifications (sandbags etc.)[message #314560] Tue, 22 January 2013 05:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hawkeye

 
Messages:1958
Registered:October 2005
Location: Australia
 Quote:
Well I'll be off duty till March (hopefully) so I got time to spare... So if u can tell me what exactly I should add where, I should be able to help, I just don't really understand how the tilesets work... I get that we have a set number of slots for what sti each tileset will have and not all tilestes have free slots so we need to add the bags/wire on the ones that do and replace something that's already there for the ones that don't.
The question is... how do I do that? I tried adding the "sandbags.sti" to all tilesets but nothing seems to have changed...


Most of what you need to get cracking with Tilesets is covered here...

http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=269120#Post269120

Quote:
The only one who really knows how tilesets work is smeag ... he's kinda busy though.


Maaan, I get no respect. :devilaugh:

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Re: New feature: Constructable static fortifications (sandbags etc.)[message #328381] Wed, 20 November 2013 21:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Taro_M

 
Messages:296
Registered:November 2008
Thread necromancy.

I dont know if you guys have considered this, but how about making fortifications some kind of NPC/character/thing. Think of it as about tanks or cars. This way you could have their own tileset and you could build them on any map and they could be damaged by normal fire. Also it could be possible to build them on roofs.

The thing is they should be visible all the time and they should allow weapon resting. Also can JA handle hundreds of dummy characters like this?

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Re: New feature: Constructable static fortifications (sandbags etc.)[message #328384] Wed, 20 November 2013 21:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3476
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
 That might work a bit, but not fully. First of all, there can only be up to 255 persons in a sector at the same time (easing that restriction is theoretically easy... but knowing the code, it will probably break everything in fresh new ways). Getting 'persons' to behave like scenery is... bleh. I won't even try to estimate the effort. The game will at least slow down to a crawl.

There are ways to add new tile from tilesets not on maps (this is necessary if we want to keep any maps created so far useful). One way is to pervert the pxitems, but then only the graphics show. On the summer convention '12, we were successful in creating sort of a 'master tileset', from which every map can read. That worked, but the problems at which we stopped were
  • many tiles had no shadows.
  • doors created this way did not work (likely also true for any other sort of 'interaction')
  • our mapper wasn't to happy about the prospect of having to scroll to 65535 single tiles in the map editor Smile

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Re: New feature: Constructable static fortifications (sandbags etc.)[message #328390] Wed, 20 November 2013 22:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Taro_M

 
Messages:296
Registered:November 2008
Hmm... would it be possible to have something like a supplementary tileset? Something that could be loaded alongside the base map tileset. That additional tilseset could have the special items like fortifications and such.

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Re: New feature: Constructable static fortifications (sandbags etc.)[message #328392] Wed, 20 November 2013 22:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:1987
Registered:December 2012
Location: Soviet Russia
 Quote:
Quote:
If we just add the subsets, would we be able to build fortifications in-game even if they're not placeable via editor?

DepressivesBrot: Maybe, but it's a really evil hack.

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Re: New feature: Constructable static fortifications (sandbags etc.)[message #328398] Thu, 21 November 2013 01:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Taro_M

 
Messages:296
Registered:November 2008
Maybe you still should look into it. Right now the fortifications feature is pretty much useless as you cant fortify positions in sectors you really need to.

BTW: I wanted to say you wouldnt be able to break AI if you could only build half height sandbags, but I realized that you could just put another sandbag behind it and still block the route.

[Updated on: Thu, 21 November 2013 01:36] by Moderator

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Re: New feature: Constructable static fortifications (sandbags etc.)[message #328464] Sat, 23 November 2013 07:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hawkeye

 
Messages:1958
Registered:October 2005
Location: Australia
 A supplementary tileset wouldn't be possible without some pretty major code overhauls.

It's possible that there may be some spare slots in existing tilesets, preferably the 00 Generic set, if they haven't already been filled. But this also means, as Flugente has already mentioned, you'd need someone to basically go through every map in the game to fix existing issues carried over by maps using duplicate slots in the original tileset.

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Re: New feature: Constructable static fortifications (sandbags etc.)[message #329421] Wed, 01 January 2014 02:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
AvianSavara

 
Messages:33
Registered:December 2013
Location: Montr
 This feature is so DOPE! ROFL

Sadly, I couldn't use it in preparation of the Drassen Counterattack, nor could I install the much-drooled-over rooftop machine gun nests, BUT I have turned Omerta into a bitching rebellious sand castle (Girls welcome. Queens stay out). Very Happy

Also. Turn your SAM sites into WWI battlefields! :smilingsoldier:

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Re: New feature: Constructable static fortifications (sandbags etc.)[message #329637] Wed, 08 January 2014 13:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
fallschirmjager

 
Messages:42
Registered:June 2005
Location: Darwin, Australia
Yeah this feature bloody fantastic.

I'm hoping someone will be able to allow sandbags and barbed wire in any sector.

Some of those cross roads need a machine gun nest.

Or three.

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Re: New feature: Constructable static fortifications (sandbags etc.)[message #332361] Fri, 09 May 2014 22:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:1987
Registered:December 2012
Location: Soviet Russia
 Have a crazy idea - not sure if it's possible to implement in game.

If we can remove and place sandbags, we can probably remove and place other small objects - chairs, tires, small rocks etc.

So, is it possible in theory to make 'improvised barricades' from some random junk and furniture found in sector?

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Re: New feature: Constructable static fortifications (sandbags etc.)[message #332362] Fri, 09 May 2014 23:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3476
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
 Oh, we can do that - in those maps that already have those things in their STI set. Which are very few. This is the reason sandbags are only possible in a few vanilla maps - those that have that tileset.

Smeagol's bigmaps always have that tileset, which is the reason you can place sandbags anywhere there.

And no, tweaking this is not easy. We got that to work two years ago, but the added tiles missed shadows/functionality etc., so I postponed development until I feel like picking it up again, which is likely never.

Map Structure editing is a dark art.

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Re: New feature: Constructable static fortifications (sandbags etc.)[message #334172] Sat, 12 July 2014 09:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hawkeye

 
Messages:1958
Registered:October 2005
Location: Australia
 Flugente, is there any restrictions on where those Sandbag.sti's are postitioned within the tileset? Or is it just a case of having the Sti somewhere (anywhere) contained within?

So for example if some sandbags were in a vehicle slot, or rocks slot, would they still work with your feature? At the moment I see they are within the Barrels and other junk slots, but if other slots are fair game I might have a few more options to add them, at least for some Vengeance maps anyhow.

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Re: New feature: Constructable static fortifications (sandbags etc.)[message #334173] Sat, 12 July 2014 11:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3476
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
 Hmm. As far as I remember, I loop over all elements of the tileset, thus the position should not matter.

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Re: New feature: Constructable static fortifications (sandbags etc.)[message #334222] Mon, 14 July 2014 20:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kirill_OverK

 
Messages:263
Registered:September 2010
Sevenfm
Have a crazy idea - not sure if it's possible to implement in game.

If we can remove and place sandbags, we can probably remove and place other small objects - chairs, tires, small rocks etc.

So, is it possible in theory to make 'improvised barricades' from some random junk and furniture found in sector?



good idea !!! very good !

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Re: New feature: Constructable static fortifications (sandbags etc.)[message #334223] Mon, 14 July 2014 20:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kirill_OverK

 
Messages:263
Registered:September 2010

==========

idea-2 ! -

make fortifications from bodies of the enemy !


__________

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Re: New feature: Constructable static fortifications (sandbags etc.)[message #334224] Mon, 14 July 2014 20:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3745
Registered:July 2009
...

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Re: New feature: Constructable static fortifications (sandbags etc.)[message #334225] Mon, 14 July 2014 20:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3476
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
 While I am always happy if people find creative new ways to put corpses to new use, the same as above applies: We can only add those tiles that are already in the tileset. Additionally, corpses do not have any volume ingame (think of them as 'patches'), so we'd new tiles for that - which then won't be in any map.

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Re: New feature: Constructable static fortifications (sandbags etc.)[message #334226] Mon, 14 July 2014 21:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:1987
Registered:December 2012
Location: Soviet Russia
 It seems that today is the day of crazy questions =)
How about trenches? They were implemented in some mods, vanilla or 1.13 based (FFF) .
Is it possible to implement them in stock 1.13, even if they will require special tiles?

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Re: New feature: Constructable static fortifications (sandbags etc.)[message #334227] Mon, 14 July 2014 21:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3745
Registered:July 2009
Sevenfm
It seems that today is the day of crazy questions =)
How about trenches? They were implemented in some mods, vanilla or 1.13 based (FFF) .
Is it possible to implement them in stock 1.13, even if they will require special tiles?
Trenches are just a moderately complex optical illusion. If you can generate them in a way they look good (important, otherwise you can just build bags) and put the tiles in all sets ... lots of work for doing nothing different gameplay wise than a sandbag position.

[Updated on: Mon, 14 July 2014 21:14] by Moderator

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Re: New feature: Constructable static fortifications (sandbags etc.)[message #334228] Mon, 14 July 2014 21:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3476
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
 The implementation of trenches I know is purely an optical thing. If you have the correct tilesets, you can build maps with those. But these won't work in other maps.

Trenches, as in 'multiple height levels', are as good as impossible. Unless you find someone stupid enough to redo the entire engine and the map editor.

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Re: New feature: Constructable static fortifications (sandbags etc.)[message #334258] Tue, 15 July 2014 21:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kirill_OverK

 
Messages:263
Registered:September 2010
Flugente
The implementation of trenches I know is purely an optical thing. If you have the correct tilesets, you can build maps with those. But these won't work in other maps.

Trenches, as in 'multiple height levels', are as good as impossible. Unless you find someone stupid enough to redo the entire engine and the map editor.


yes .. it is really hard ..

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Re: New feature: Constructable static fortifications (sandbags etc.)[message #345443 is a reply to message #334258] Thu, 12 May 2016 03:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
raditzvisnar

 
Messages:36
Registered:April 2016
Location: Indonesia
Maybe next we could cut down the trees...a lots of them in arulco anyway..to build some post, wall, sniper nest, etc


http://s19.postimg.org/lr1ya3iyr/KTs_Nb.png http://s19.postimg.org/5w25cqlhb/gbaspa.gif
Nasi Goreng is good

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Re: New feature: Constructable static fortifications (sandbags etc.)[message #345451 is a reply to message #345443] Thu, 12 May 2016 13:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3476
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
 As I've already said elsewhere, that is easily doable by adding xml entries to StructureDeconstruct.xml.


I know now that it could never work between us, as much as we wanted to, it could never be! Not because you're a rabbit, but because you're black.

If you want, you can donate to me. This will not affect how and what I code, and I will not code specific features in return. I will be thankful though.

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Re: New feature: Constructable static fortifications (sandbags etc.)[message #346382 is a reply to message #305783] Wed, 27 July 2016 07:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SchmittLenin

 
Messages:30
Registered:August 2015
Couldn't we add a sandbag tile on every map?


Lurking is nice

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Re: New feature: Constructable static fortifications (sandbags etc.)[message #346386 is a reply to message #346382] Wed, 27 July 2016 14:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3476
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
 This post shows the sectors that currently have the required subtileset.

As to your question, not really. The map tilesets are very limited in how many subtileset they allow. Worse, they are often shared between multiple maps. This means you have to look at multiple maps to determine whether a tileset is used, and only if you're lucky and it isn't, you might have luck replacing it. While I coded a small function to help detect that, this requires some debugger and coding knowledge, and still is stupid tedious.

Brute-force replacing tilesets will either crash the game or, at best, make it look like the map file was corrupted, as structures are replaced with other things that make no sense (If I recall, of one used some WF maps with some vanilla tilesets it looked like grass was replaced with coat-hangers and fridges etc.).


I know now that it could never work between us, as much as we wanted to, it could never be! Not because you're a rabbit, but because you're black.

If you want, you can donate to me. This will not affect how and what I code, and I will not code specific features in return. I will be thankful though.

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Re: New feature: Constructable static fortifications (sandbags etc.)[message #346391 is a reply to message #305783] Thu, 28 July 2016 07:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
SchmittLenin

 
Messages:30
Registered:August 2015
Ah, I thought tilesets were somewhat universal and that we just needed to add a single sandbag tile to every map (In a corner or something) to be able to use them. Sorry!


Lurking is nice

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Re: New feature: Constructable static fortifications (sandbags etc.)[message #346392 is a reply to message #346391] Thu, 28 July 2016 12:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RunAwayScientist

 
Messages:85
Registered:September 2001
Quick question, (possibly) bug related: I used the CTRL+A and CTRL+ALT+A system to build on the second story of a roof. Specifically sandbags. Naturally, trying to build them manually we are disallowed.

When unloading the sector and then reloading it, all fortifications built atop any roof are removed or gone as if they had never been built. Is building on a roof disallowed with this system, or is it a bug?

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Re: New feature: Constructable static fortifications (sandbags etc.)[message #346396 is a reply to message #346392] Thu, 28 July 2016 19:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3476
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
 Most likely a display bug, due to the way our 'graphics engine' works it's possible that objects on a roof are not drawn correctly. You could check whether the stuff is also missing physically.


I know now that it could never work between us, as much as we wanted to, it could never be! Not because you're a rabbit, but because you're black.

If you want, you can donate to me. This will not affect how and what I code, and I will not code specific features in return. I will be thankful though.

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Re: New feature: Constructable static fortifications (sandbags etc.)[message #351320 is a reply to message #346396] Sat, 21 October 2017 08:13 Go to previous message
Hawkeye

 
Messages:1958
Registered:October 2005
Location: Australia
 I'm still way behind on some of these newer features, and our mod is using an older version of the fortifications system but I wanted to ask what does the message '*Gasket had to stop removing a fortification' refer to? Or is this a generic message that is basically saying 'you can't remove that'?


(*or whoever's got a shovel in his hand at the time and is attempting to deconstruct an obstacle)

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