Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » Flugente's Magika Workshop » New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive
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Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #325758]
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Thu, 26 September 2013 21:51
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Zundman7301 |
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Messages:38
Registered:June 2005 Location: USA |
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Two things:
#1--BUG: When in an occupied enemy sector, you can still auto refill canteens so long as you're in real-time mode. This doesn't make sense, since in most sectors the enemy is between you and the water.
#2--Suggestion: Auto drinking in sectors with a clean water source. It's kind of a hassle that I have to 'water' my mercs when they're in city sectors when they can otherwise refill their canteen with clean water at-will. Buying them food is one thing--because it costs money, and I control the purse. But water is free, and so when it's readily available, and clean, and I still have to 'water' them, it just seems like they're completely helpless to help themselves (maybe Larry would still need help, though?). I think it's a great system, and the player should still have to manually refill their canteens before going out into other sectors. But IMO, it seems really goofy that mercs can't take care of their own needs when they're in a sector with a clean source of water. (This came about by not having enough canteens to go around at the beginning of the game. I can't split my mercs up between city sectors because they all die of thirst). Also, I'd suggest mercs ought to be able to eat out of sector inventory if there's free food to be found there (for the same reasons)--but maybe that's already implemented? From a game perspective, it makes sense that even if mercs don't have canteens, they can still move around the map as long as they plan their trips from one CLEAN watering hole to another. Otherwise, the beginning of the game is broken on harder difficulty levels, since many mercs don't deploy with canteens, and it might be days before you control the Drassen airport, with an additional 24 hours minimum on top of that before you can get the canteens you need from BR's. At least, that's been my experience.
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Private 1st Class
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Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #325946]
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Mon, 30 September 2013 02:21
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Zombiehunter |
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Messages:182
Registered:March 2011 Location: Franconia, Germany |
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Zundman7301Yeah, but wouldn't it make more sense not to allow it in enemy occupied sectors than to allow it?
Why? I don't see your point, if you'd walking into a battlezone, you're still out of the enemy's sight. Then you notice your canteen is almost empty and you're about to cross a small stream of clean and pure water, wouldn't you stop real quick to refill your canteen?
After all, it'd take like 10 sec tops to fill a canteen and firefight is stressy enough, not to mention you never know how long something like that takes and running out of water should be the least of your problems in battle.
Anyways, I really love what you did there with the Foodsystem, Flug. You just added another layer of strategical consideration into the game. Before that resupplying your folks was fairly easy, just make sure they don't run out of ammo and you could just press down onto Meduna in a fairly short time.
I really love it, a big thumbs up to you for that
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Staff Sergeant
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Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #326008]
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Mon, 30 September 2013 23:11
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Zundman7301 |
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Messages:38
Registered:June 2005 Location: USA |
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Zombiehunter
Why? I don't see your point, if you'd walking into a battlezone, you're still out of the enemy's sight. Then you notice your canteen is almost empty and you're about to cross a small stream of clean and pure water, wouldn't you stop real quick to refill your canteen?
I completely agree. If we could walk up to the water source and then have the option to refill, I'd agree with you that this is the way it should work. But more often than not, there are enemies between you and the water source (Example: when you're attacking a SAM site, and the water is in the bathroom of the SAM facility. Or how about when you deploy on the outskirts of a city sector and there are enemies in/around the buildings? Doesn't make sense.) If we can't access sector inventory in an occupied sector (because we're not allowed free movement, lest we run into enemies), it doesn't make sense that we can access sector water for the same reasons.
--But this is all just my opinion. I'm in the minority, so be it.
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Private 1st Class
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Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #326022]
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Tue, 01 October 2013 03:25
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Zombiehunter |
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Messages:182
Registered:March 2011 Location: Franconia, Germany |
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silversurfer
I think there are more severe problems with occupied sectors that are still not solved. Things like flying there and then start to repair, train or .
That might be very very true, but this thread is about the foodsystem exclusively
Zundman7301
I completely agree. If we could walk up to the water source and then have the option to refill, I'd agree with you that this is the way it should work. But more often than not, there are enemies between you and the water source (Example: when you're attacking a SAM site, and the water is in the bathroom of the SAM facility. Or how about when you deploy on the outskirts of a city sector and there are enemies in/around the buildings? Doesn't make sense.) If we can't access sector inventory in an occupied sector (because we're not allowed free movement, lest we run into enemies), it doesn't make sense that we can access sector water for the same reasons.
--But this is all just my opinion. I'm in the minority, so be it.
Okay I understand your point, in Desert Sam refilling your canteen, before battle might seem a little far fetched. On the other hand, there are ways to extract water from cacti (don't ask me how though ) But if I understood silversurfer right, as long as there are no open bodies of water in the map, then you're not able to refill your canteen anyways and on the most other maps, the bodies of water are quite big stretching from on edge to another.
Anyways, to be honest because of my mapping commitments I am not really able to play that much lately, so I can't quite check it out right now.
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Staff Sergeant
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Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #326060]
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Tue, 01 October 2013 23:54
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Zundman7301 |
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Messages:38
Registered:June 2005 Location: USA |
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Quote: But if I understood silversurfer right, as long as there are no open bodies of water in the map, then you're not able to refill your canteen anyways and on the most other maps, the bodies of water are quite big stretching from on edge to another.
Correct. But I'm not as concerned about "poison" water, which is all open bodies of water. In the case of those (steams, ponds etc.,) you're right, mercs MAY be able to sneak in and fill their canteens, because it's usually all over the map (but it's still questionable about whether they would run into enemies on the way, unless your mercs are RIGHT next to a water tile, but as SilverSurfer pointed out, making proximity to certain tiles a requirement for a refill requires a bunch of new code, which definitely isn't necessary). --I'm mainly talking about "clean" sources of water--those found in city or military sectors (e.g.: when the water is found inside buildings). When occupied by an enemy, it doesn't make sense that your merc can sneak into a house otherwise surrounded by soldiers to get a drink. With the way the other game systems work (ex.: sector inventory), it's nonsensical. Additionally, however, for the reasons stated above, allowing mercs to refill in pond sectors when enemies are present is still questionable.
As a result, instead of making minor distinctions and writing a bunch of new code about when/where mercs can refill. It makes the most sense to just change the conditions for a successful refill command to "no enemies in the sector," just like accessing sector inventory.
Simple. Easy. And the most logical. As SilverSurfer pointed out, it's not technically a bug. But when I was able to do it it at the Drassen airport while the whole sector was crawling with enemies, it seemed so wacky to me that I assumed it must have been.
My 2c.
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Private 1st Class
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Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #326062]
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Wed, 02 October 2013 02:41
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Zombiehunter |
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Messages:182
Registered:March 2011 Location: Franconia, Germany |
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Calling open bodies of water poisoneous, is a bit far-fetched, most of the time unprocessed water found in the nature, is as good, sometimes even better than tapwater (unless there is some heavy industry nearby, or it's a non flowing body of water, if there is too much algae, then the Oxygen levels are too low etc etc.), when in doubt, in the German EPA are a few water purifying pills, just drop it into your canteen and you have the wonderful taste of chemically treated water
Anyways I see your point, perhaps there will be a better solution in the future.
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Staff Sergeant
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Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #326297]
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Sun, 06 October 2013 14:55
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Deimosruhk |
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Messages:19
Registered:January 2013 |
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Yay.
How do I turn this off?
Thanks!
EDIT: Clarification: How do I turn this off in an existing game?
[Updated on: Sun, 06 October 2013 14:59] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Private
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Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #327062]
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Thu, 24 October 2013 05:38
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mercsdontcry |
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Messages:17
Registered:October 2013 |
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Zundman7301Two things:
#2--Suggestion: Auto drinking in sectors with a clean water source. It's kind of a hassle that I have to 'water' my mercs when they're in city sectors when they can otherwise refill their canteen with clean water at-will. Buying them food is one thing--because it costs money, and I control the purse. But water is free, and so when it's readily available, and clean, and I still have to 'water' them, it just seems like they're completely helpless to help themselves (maybe Larry would still need help, though?). I think it's a great system, and the player should still have to manually refill their canteens before going out into other sectors. But IMO, it seems really goofy that mercs can't take care of their own needs when they're in a sector with a clean source of water. (This came about by not having enough canteens to go around at the beginning of the game. I can't split my mercs up between city sectors because they all die of thirst). Also, I'd suggest mercs ought to be able to eat out of sector inventory if there's free food to be found there (for the same reasons)--but maybe that's already implemented? From a game perspective, it makes sense that even if mercs don't have canteens, they can still move around the map as long as they plan their trips from one CLEAN watering hole to another. Otherwise, the beginning of the game is broken on harder difficulty levels, since many mercs don't deploy with canteens, and it might be days before you control the Drassen airport, with an additional 24 hours minimum on top of that before you can get the canteens you need from BR's. At least, that's been my experience.
I completeley agree with this post. When I started a new game I stood in Drassen with one Canteen. I was doing "drinking", "refilling" passing it to the next merc, "drinking", "refilling" etc for minutes. This is not fun.
When you press "CTRL"+"." there are unused buttons. Maybe one of them could read "Drink from water supply" and all mercs drink until they are at 100%.
Apart from that, this feature is really great.
playedwith the 6520_exe
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Private
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Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #330295]
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Mon, 03 February 2014 21:45
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Flugente |
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Messages:3509
Registered:April 2009 Location: Germany |
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@BruteForce: I seem to have missed your post :eek4: . The issue is probably related now, I know I fixed something about poison a while ago...
@Off_Topic: with Food Feature turned on, this seems to behave as it should. You're likely referring to what happens when it is off. In that case, yes, it behaves like the normal canteen. Food data isn't evaluated at that point, this includes the ubPortionSize-tag in Food.xml. Without food turned on, using a canteen always uses min(20, itemstatus) points. I'm not sure if applying some food tags is good if that feature is explicitly turned off, as we then have confusion on which tags work and which don't. Then again, your post proves that might already be the case... :sadyellow:
@grylsyjaeger: Is the food feature on? You can check by hovering over a merc's health bar, if it says something about Food and Water it is on. Second, what are the settings in your JA2_Options.ini under [Tactical Food Settings]?
@Luke @DepressivesBrot
:rant2:
:whoknows:
:compcuppa:
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