Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » Flugente's Magika Workshop » New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive
Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #308814] Wed, 08 August 2012 15:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JMich

 
Messages:552
Registered:January 2011
Location: Greece
wil473
If this hasn't already come up, found that the Food tags are being erased by XML Editor 0.97.

Try the version found here, if it works as it should, I'll commit it. If there are any problems, tell me and I'll try to fix them.
P.S. I'm using the Food.xml szName tag to display the food type, so I'd suggest changing the 0 value item from "none" to "(none)" for ordering reasons. Also, the Pockets Available is a bitmask, so be aware of it should you mess with the MOLLE system.
Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #308834] Wed, 08 August 2012 19:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wil473

 
Messages:2841
Registered:September 2004
Location: Canada
Thanks, I'm testing it now. Got a crash with the canteen but I did not clear the Working XML folder. I was able to open the canteen with stock Data-1.13.

When I got the MOLLE system working in the early hours of the morning I set the bitmask to all 1's, I've got three NAS layouts to control which pouches are activated - looks nice but I'm guessing I could have accomplished the same with the bitmask.

EDIT: one thing I'm not clear on, can all the canteen items use the same Food index (1)? Earlier I had created a copy for the Unfinished Business Che Canteen. Oh and I'm in the UC-1.13 canteen after clearing the working folder.

[Updated on: Wed, 08 August 2012 19:15] by Moderator



Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #308836] Wed, 08 August 2012 19:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JMich

 
Messages:552
Registered:January 2011
Location: Greece
wil473
EDIT: one thing I'm not clear on, can all the canteen items use the same Food index (1)? Earlier I had created a copy for the Unfinished Business Che Canteen. Oh and I'm in the UC-1.13 canteen after clearing the working folder.

You start by creating a food item (Data->Food), let's call it "Mineral Water". You give it the relevant food and drink points (0 and 20), then a portion size of 10 (so each consuming will consume 10% of it). Then you create your containers, be they canteens, pet bottles, or tetrapak, and assign them the FoodType of "Mineral Water". Thus they all behave the same, so it would be best to have them have more or less the same volume, consuming 10% of a water barrel would be excessive.
Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #308838] Wed, 08 August 2012 19:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wil473

 
Messages:2841
Registered:September 2004
Location: Canada
Ok so it more like an ammotype, where a lot of items can point to the same entry in food.xml, instead of like weapons.xml or explosives.xml where there is a 1 for 1 item relationship between item index and class index.

Not sure if it is part of what I did prior to the new XML Editor to get MOLLE working, but = 65535 shows up as 0 in the XML Editor Pockets Available field.

Saved from XML Editor and the value is still 65535 in the XML, even tested in-game to make sure the LBE still had all its pockets available.


Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #308840] Wed, 08 August 2012 20:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JMich

 
Messages:552
Registered:January 2011
Location: Greece
lbePocketsAvailable has a maximum value of 4095 (2^12 - 1), since an lbe may have a maximum of 12 pockets (I think). Setting it to 65535 (2^16 - 1) will of course set all the pockets to exist, but it will also have 4 more flags set, which are not parsed. Either way, if it does keep it, you can ignore it.
Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #308845] Wed, 08 August 2012 20:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wil473

 
Messages:2841
Registered:September 2004
Location: Canada
Ok, my bad. Somehow 12 became 16 when I was doing the math (with a calculator no less)... This lack of sleep thing isn't really going so well.


Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #308886] Fri, 10 August 2012 01:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lamach_Head

 
Messages:421
Registered:November 2008
Location: Mars
Is it a problem to not create the food items when playing without it then? Must be similar to sci-fi items on "real mode". Or am I missing something here?


Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #308894] Fri, 10 August 2012 03:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Slax

 
Messages:1437
Registered:July 2006
Location: People riding polar bears...
A bug report.
Could this possibly have to do with AR maps not being properly configured for all this new stuff or is someone else getting this on vanilla maps as well?
(Maps have been Frankensteined into my Data-1.13 folder, just to be clear.)

Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #308905] Fri, 10 August 2012 15:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
navaroe

 
Messages:79
Registered:August 2012
Hi,
hope you don't mind newcomer to chip-in. Finally made an account so that I can find threads about new stuff in SVN version...

Thanks for the new feature, Flugente - it can increase overall difficulty of game (which is good). However, I hope you will change your mind about not easing with the micromanagement eventually Smile

May I suggest, that hungry and thirsty people drink or at least eat from whatever source is present in sector? Be it another merc's inventory or stuff lying around? Seems realistic enough to me - you wouldn't leave your comrade in arm starve to death while packed with loads of bread, would you? He would shoot you sooner or later anyway Smile

I thought this particular micromanagement problem might not be against your mind.
Thanks anyway to you and everyone involved in 1.13.
Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #308923] Sat, 11 August 2012 13:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3533
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
@Sandro: To clarify, do you mean you want an option for the game not to create any food items as random loot/shopkeeper inventory/BR stuff when playing without food? One problem would be that items that are food but are also vanilla items wouldn't appear then, as well as combo-drug/food items.

Hi Nav|Naf, welcome to the Pit!

Your suggestion is possible, but not easy.

For one, I will not allow auto-feeding from the sector inventory. We would have to first loop over every merc's inventory, and then load the sector inventory everytime a merc is still hungry in a sector, and feed from there. I really don't like loading other sector's inventories, as its a mess (and cause a significant slowdown in severe cases).

What would be possible however is the idea to feed from other mercs inventories in the same sector. I'll propably do it this weekend.


Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #308937] Sat, 11 August 2012 17:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
navaroe

 
Messages:79
Registered:August 2012
Glad to hear that all.

I just remembered Turtle from JA 1 - he would make perfect company chef Grin

Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #308949] Sat, 11 August 2012 21:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lamach_Head

 
Messages:421
Registered:November 2008
Location: Mars
Flugente
@Sandro: To clarify, do you mean you want an option for the game not to create any food items as random loot/shopkeeper inventory/BR stuff when playing without food? One problem would be that items that are food but are also vanilla items wouldn't appear then, as well as combo-drug/food items.
Yes, that's what I meant. I figured there would be some problems with canteens (anything else? maybe alcohol). Dunno how to solve it, maybe somehow identify the canteen and make it an exception, while at the same time remove the food-properties from it, leaving it just a normal canteen like it was before. Maybe. Or duplicate it, and make a tag or something saying this item will only spawn if NOT playing with food system.
Either way, it would be wise to think about a way how not to spawn food items when playing without it. It's not very elegant when the player keeps finding irrelevant items.


Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #308950] Sat, 11 August 2012 21:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Slax

 
Messages:1437
Registered:July 2006
Location: People riding polar bears...
Quote:
Your mercs will refuse to eat any more food if you try to fill them up. The aren't bears you know, they don't eat tons before going into winter-sleep.

Dunno about that. Got my mercs scarfing down what seems like tons of food just to stay over the 0% mark. Gobbling down (judging by item descriptions) 3+ liters of drink too.
Merchants barely cover my needs with a team of 5-6 mercs. :/

A steak dinner adds 1-2%. That's a bit underwhelming, no?

[Updated on: Sat, 11 August 2012 23:05] by Moderator


Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #308969] Sun, 12 August 2012 05:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3533
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
In that case, the correct solution is to increase the amount of food and water points that food items give in Food.xml. Keep in mind that these values aren't set in stone, they just seemed ok while testing.


Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #308994] Sun, 12 August 2012 22:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Slax

 
Messages:1437
Registered:July 2006
Location: People riding polar bears...
Here's an updated Food.xml. Drink points doubled, food quadrupled. Roughly, with a few deviations.
Food still needs some work. More updates after testing.

Encountered a bug during testing. Or at least an oddity.

http://i.imgur.com/0U6oV.png

Mercs start out at 0% food and water. You keep them at around 0-20% and everything's fine. You can even go on the minus side.
Well, I got my guys up to about 30-50% food and 100% water. Rested for about half a day in Drassen and suddenly stats start dropping, as shown on the screenshot. Food and water still seems fine, I think. Just seems screwy. (Maybe there's something I'm just not getting.)

Maybe make it so that mercs start out at 50% or so? Automatic drinking and eating at about 25% or so. Penalties start occurring if you hit 0%. Death at -100%?
Can't really test any longterm stuff since GameLoop crashed still happen every now and then for whatever reason.

Skimmed the thread and found out a lil' something something about optimal values. D'oh! Guess everything was balanced to begin with. Still, there are no real guidelines with the percentage system and time compression becomes a chore with how it is right now. Mercs not eating or drinking when they've eaten too much, falling to pieces without you ever knowing they've had too much. Got a bunch of doctoring to look forward to now. Very Happy

[Updated on: Mon, 13 August 2012 12:51] by Moderator


Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #309013] Mon, 13 August 2012 16:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bambusar

 
Messages:64
Registered:July 2012
I am playing goc_man SCI
http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/board/ubbthreads.php/topics/308015/goc_man_SCIs.html#Post308015

I noticed that if you buy more than one piece of same food (like 3 hamburgers) and feed them to your mec all together in one click, you get bonus as you feed them only one piece of that food.
(4 hamburgers should give you 4% increase but you get only 1% if you feed them with all four of them on the cursor.
Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #309017] Mon, 13 August 2012 18:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
navaroe

 
Messages:79
Registered:August 2012
@Slax - stats started dropping because your mercs are over-fed. According to this http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/board/ubbthreads.php/topics/308347/Re_New_feature_Mercs_need_food.html#Post308347

You are supposed to keep both values between -10 and 10 percent (at cost of LOTS of micromanagement) or between -25 to 10 with auto-feeding.

BTW, I noticed, that mercs wouldn't auto-feed when sleeping. If merc is tired enough, he can get past stat losing threshold even with enough water on him.
They are too lazy to have a drink during sleep Smile
Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #309024] Mon, 13 August 2012 23:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3533
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
@Slax: I've committed the food values you provided. Thanks for that.

The mercs will refuse to eat/drink something if they are already over 50%. However, on combo food items, they may do so if they are still thirsty/hungry.

Also, if a food portion is big enough, you can still go over 50%.

The third way to get over 50% is with combined food/drug items. The drug effects are attributed first, you cannot 'resist' the food part. (new code from today)

These are the only ways to go over the 50%. However, as you can get stat damage once you are over 50%, I changed that today (r5468):

Your mercs will stop eating (except for the above methods) at 50%. Stat damage will only start at 75%.

I also changed the messages for stat damages. You will get different messages, depending on wether you are over- or underfed.

@Bambusar: Fixed in r5468.

Nav|Naf

BTW, I noticed, that mercs wouldn't auto-feed when sleeping. If merc is tired enough, he can get past stat losing threshold even with enough water on him.
They are too lazy to have a drink during sleep


Of course not. Unless you are a sleepwalker, nobody can eat while sleeping Smile I intended that.


Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #309031] Tue, 14 August 2012 00:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bambusar

 
Messages:64
Registered:July 2012
another little bug that i found
http://i.imgur.com/m8Sd8.jpg

I think that truck dont get any real damage but game prints that message anyway.
Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #309033] Tue, 14 August 2012 00:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3533
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
lol. I'll correct it.

Altough, to be fair, I'm pretty sure the truck has never eaten anything Smile


Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #309034] Tue, 14 August 2012 00:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Slax

 
Messages:1437
Registered:July 2006
Location: People riding polar bears...
Good stuff. Looking forward to the next exe.

I've noticed an oddity with stale drinks. They're poisonous! A minimal amount, but still. Maybe do a -1 on the morale bonus instead? I'd dropped fresh vegetable juice on the ground for a few seconds, it went stale and then suddenly it was poisonous. Razz

Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #309035] Tue, 14 August 2012 00:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3533
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
The poison effect is intended. This happens when the item is decayed too much.

You can set the decay rate in Food.xml.

Was the decay too fast? How long did it take?


Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #309038] Tue, 14 August 2012 01:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Slax

 
Messages:1437
Registered:July 2006
Location: People riding polar bears...
Literally just a few seconds. Pretty sure I just bought the stuff and dropped it for a moment to do some inventory sorting.

Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #309040] Tue, 14 August 2012 01:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3533
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Did you, by any chance, access the strategic screen in the meantime? To sort inventory there, or even load another sector?


Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #309041] Tue, 14 August 2012 01:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Slax

 
Messages:1437
Registered:July 2006
Location: People riding polar bears...
Did pass by the strategic screen. Guessing that's the oopsie I'm looking for. Razz
That's a new gripe then. Do remember this being discussed somewhere not too long ago but I didn't pay too much attention. Any alternatives available? Having such checks on screen switching is pretty wonky. On loading a new sector I can understand (even if that too could cause some problems). Hm...

[Updated on: Tue, 14 August 2012 02:41] by Moderator


Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #309043] Tue, 14 August 2012 03:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3533
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
The problem is that I changed the cooldown and food decay functions. Now stuff only decays/gets cooled down if we load a sector inventory and the last time we loaded it is > 1 minute. However, for some reason, the variable that remembers the time is apparently not updated correctly. As a result, it can happen that items decay multiple times for the same amount of time.


Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #309071] Tue, 14 August 2012 18:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bambusar

 
Messages:64
Registered:July 2012
On day 11 truck died, poor bastard.
I cant repair it, and his inventory isnt available.
I loaded old saves and put drinks and food in his inventory and he drinks some fluid but he didnt want to eat so it didnt help. You also cant feed him manually so there is only one possible outcome.

Also game start to crash a lot when I was fiddling with save truck operation.

http://i.imgur.com/yQYkc.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/u4gls.jpg


edit:
Later I managed to make him (automatically from inventory) eat some bread after two days but I think that he also got poisoned drinking contaminated water (green health bar). He is also losing fuel when parked. could be that tank is leaking...

http://i.imgur.com/JanFw.jpg

[Updated on: Tue, 14 August 2012 19:18] by Moderator

Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #309072] Tue, 14 August 2012 19:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2001
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
Maybe as workaround one could add (huge) nutrition's effect to the gas can? So that fueling the truck prevents it from starving ...

What about the Humvee, BTW? Due to offroad capability its hunger must be even greater ... Very Happy
Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #309074] Tue, 14 August 2012 19:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lockie

 
Messages:3827
Registered:February 2006
Location: Scotland
Hahahha , hungry trucks ... what next ... peckish helicopters ? Very Happy


Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #309075] Tue, 14 August 2012 19:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Slax

 
Messages:1437
Registered:July 2006
Location: People riding polar bears...
...or just make an exception for vehicles. Razz

(Ice cream vans run on ice cream, obviously!)

Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #309076] Tue, 14 August 2012 19:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3533
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
The problem is just that I dont check wether a soldier is a car in the hourly food update. I do that for the robot, but forgot it for cars. Don't have time atm, I'll fix it tomorrow. Unless ofc someone else does that today Smile

Update: as of r5473, vehicles no longer digest or consume food, and food info is no longer shown for them.

[Updated on: Wed, 15 August 2012 01:27] by Moderator



Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #309107] Wed, 15 August 2012 14:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Maalstroom

 
Messages:342
Registered:December 2008
Location: en route to San Hermanos
Hi
were ca we find the latest working build?

thanks!
Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #309110] Wed, 15 August 2012 15:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3533
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
The code is in the trunk, you'll just have to compile Smile

Since Sandro's new features are in there, I dunno if it will be savegame-compatible. I'm currently on a bughunt, I'll propably link a fresh exe in my sig later today.

Edit: Exe for r5474 is in my sig.

[Updated on: Wed, 15 August 2012 22:25] by Moderator



Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #309193] Fri, 17 August 2012 12:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
madwolf

 
Messages:11
Registered:May 2006
Small bug:

Ira while training militia in drassen, had a lot of food in inventory.
It all went well until now, that she decided to ead canned vegetables up to 100% hunger...

A question: is it possible to make:
1) a warning when an unit is out of food
2) auto eating when at -10% instead of -25%

thanks for your time

EDIT:
happened again, with Dimitri, canned vegetables in backpack.
He was eating everything, had to remove his backpack to stop that pig Razz
I thing it is a problem with canned vegetables, as with other foods this doesn't happens

[Updated on: Fri, 17 August 2012 18:03] by Moderator

Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #309207] Fri, 17 August 2012 19:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Thor

 
Messages:430
Registered:February 2007
Location: Belgium
I like the feature. Very nice! But a team really uses a looot of water & food at an alarming rate when travelling... Even in a small trip from Omerta to Drassen. And when you've just hired mercs they don't have food with them in their packs. Is there already food added in some map sectors like e.g. the rebel's sector?
Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #309238] Sat, 18 August 2012 01:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lexx

 
Messages:62
Registered:June 2009
Location: Germany
It sounds pretty good on paper, but... Isn't it too much micro management? I really don't want to have my mercs to carry food all the time and manage it, especially if I e.g. sit in a town sector for a few days, training militia or waiting for a shipment to arrive, etc.

Therefore I would suggest that the food / water bar lowers slower in cities and / or food is taken out of the sector inventory, if available? Especially the later would mean that I just have to stash lots of stuff somewhere in the zone and don't have to deal with equipping every merc all x minutes of playing.
Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #309241] Sat, 18 August 2012 02:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3533
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
In the current trunk, there is no preplaced food in the maps, as that would, well, require editing the maps.

Note that you can either increase the amount of points food gives in Data-1.13/TableData/Food.xml, or you can control the base digestion value every hour in the JA2Options.ini with the settings FOOD_DIGESTION_HOURLY_BASE_FOOD and FOOD_DIGESTION_HOURLY_BASE_DRINK. Lower those 2 values to lower overall consumption.

Taking food out of the sector inventory while auto-eating can be coded, but has very very severe drawbacks. The game only knows the inventory of the currently loaded sector. Therefore we would have to load every sector inventory where a hungry merc is, first decay food there, then eat it, then save the inventory again. Theoretically for 32 different sectors. Every hour.

I once did that for decay, but it was terribly slow, and I now found a better way to decay food.

So no, I won't change that. Just keep a stash of food in your inventory.


Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #309257] Sat, 18 August 2012 17:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Thor

 
Messages:430
Registered:February 2007
Location: Belgium
How about solving the problem with a "facility" in the city sectors? Like a "Mess hall" or whatever you may name it.. You pay somekind of an average per head... That is... when someone gets hungry...

Because when you are staying with a large amount of mercs, it's a lot of managing otherwise..
Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #309258] Sat, 18 August 2012 17:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3533
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
That already exists. See Facility 20 in Alma barracks.


Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #309265] Sat, 18 August 2012 21:14 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
madwolf

 
Messages:11
Registered:May 2006
As I stated already, i really love the food system, It enhances the game to a "logistics" simulation too.
What I really can't stand much is having to manually make all the mercs eat to prevent negative modifiers.

I played a lot with this feature on and I seen that eating is annoying because it usually goes like this:
hover mouse over merc stats and see:
water:-10, food:-5
eat some food
drink 2 times the canteen
hover again mouse over merc and see stats:
water:-1, food:-2
eat some food
drink 1 time the canteen
hover again mouse over merc stats to see status; finally ok

repeat per 16 mercs....

I really wish, as I said before, that merc autouse of food and drink from inventory could be configurable, to allow every player the same level of customization of the other features of this great mod.

thanks for your time

EDIT:
Just my 2 cents:
i had great and quite satisfing results by doubling every item food and thirst values and increasing the food digestion time to this levels:
FOOD_DIGESTION_HOURLY_BASE_FOOD = 60
FOOD_DIGESTION_HOURLY_BASE_DRINK = 130
I found this values quite realistic, as my mercs usually go around with about 2 canteens, 4 spam and 4 canned vegetables (to have meat and vegetables) and this quantity is enought for about 2 days (as it should be in RL)

[Updated on: Sat, 18 August 2012 21:20] by Moderator

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