Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » Flugente's Magika Workshop » New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive
Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #317948] Fri, 26 April 2013 03:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
grim

 
Messages:319
Registered:July 2006
Location: France
Very nice update, thank you for your formidable work Flugente!
Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #321334] Mon, 03 June 2013 21:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
niculinux

 
Messages:83
Registered:January 2012
Location: Italy
Great feature!!

I've tryed it out, but it makes the game virually umplayable, or maybe that's my incompetence? xD

Anyway, eating food would make health regenerating more faster or not? (I mean bandaged wounds) If no, please in the future will make also that? Thanks!
Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #321342] Mon, 03 June 2013 22:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3416
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
You do need to supply food to your mercs, you know..

niculinux
Anyway, eating food would make health regenerating more faster or not? (I mean bandaged wounds) If no, please in the future will make also that? Thanks!
No, I will not replace a logical and balanced health system with nineties-sidescroller nonsense. Eating food does not mend bones, even if crappy games tell you so.


Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #321351] Tue, 04 June 2013 01:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
grim

 
Messages:319
Registered:July 2006
Location: France
Quote:
No, I will not replace a logical and balanced health system with nineties-sidescroller nonsense. Eating food does not mend bones, even if crappy games tell you so.

:clap:

Some more micro management doesn't mean the game is unplayable. You just have to resupply sometimes, have a big lunch and stock in your bags before you go back in the country.
Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #322463] Sat, 06 July 2013 01:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3416
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
As of GameDir r1696, Darrel (of the Hicks family) now sells farm products. Makes sense for a farm with a lot of cows to sell milk. This also creates a slight dilemma, as killing the hicks then removes a source of food.


Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #322916] Thu, 18 July 2013 15:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Fjordsen

 
Messages:12
Registered:July 2007
Not sure if it was an overlook or intentional thing, but I can't refill the PET bottles in the cities like the canteen. It could be hard to find canteens, specially early on.
Other than that, great idea mate!
Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #322922] Thu, 18 July 2013 20:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3416
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
That is intentional. The player has to find canteens, or take along more waterbottles.

If you don't like it, setting 1 on the PET bottle in Items.xml will make it refillable, too.


Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #322940] Fri, 19 July 2013 02:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Fjordsen

 
Messages:12
Registered:July 2007
Flugente
That is intentional. The player has to find canteens, or take along more waterbottles.

If you don't like it, setting 1 on the PET bottle in Items.xml will make it refillable, too.


That's a good solution, cheers! Smile
Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #324458] Thu, 29 August 2013 23:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shadow21

 
Messages:334
Registered:November 2001
Location: on route to San Hermanos
any chance to have merc auto refill their canteens if they are in a sector with fresh water? i like the feature but its really tedious to have mercs who are on assignement run out of water in their canteen and having to load the sector to refill them. or maybe a button on the strategic screen.
Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #324481] Fri, 30 August 2013 11:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Off_Topic

 
Messages:1037
Registered:January 2009
Sandro included an auto-fill shortcut:

Canteens are now truly refillable (just like the description always said). You can fill canteens by pressing 'Ctrl' + '.'. The following will happen:
Canteens now don't disappear if you drink from them. They will stay at 1%, this simulates them being 'empty.'
If there is any water tile in this sector, all canteens in the sector and in your team's inventories will get refilled.
Note that water in a sector can be poisonous (like in swamp sectors). Your canteens will be filled, but the resulting watermix will be unhealthy. You can get poisoned by drinking poisonous water!
Otherwise, the game checks if there are any water drums in this sector. Canteens will be refilled from that as long a it has any water in it.
A water drum is a very huge barrel of water that exists solely for this purpose: Fill a drum with water and store it in your HQ to replenish your squads water supply.
Only food that has any drink points can get refilled.
This only works if there are no enemies in the sector.


Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #324487] Fri, 30 August 2013 13:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2020
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
As far as I understood, shadow dislikes having to enter tactical and pressing CTRL+.
He preferred if mercs being on assignments like training in a sector with water present,
1. they would not drink from their personal inventory but directly out of sector so that their canteens need no refilling at all (but they still drink automatically when thirsty),
or
2. they drink from personal inventory, but this gets refilled automatically without player having to issue any refill command,
or
3. that there was a button for "refill all canteens" in strategic UI.

Sounds like a convenient idea to me, but I have no clue about feasibility (and since flug dislikes messing with UI, 3. is probably no option here Wink )
Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #324490] Fri, 30 August 2013 13:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shadow21

 
Messages:334
Registered:November 2001
Location: on route to San Hermanos
Sam_Hotte
As far as I understood, shadow dislikes having to enter tactical and pressing CTRL+.
He preferred if mercs being on assignments like training in a sector with water present,
1. they would not drink from their personal inventory but directly out of sector so that their canteens need no refilling at all (but they still drink automatically when thirsty),
or
2. they drink from personal inventory, but this gets refilled automatically without player having to issue any refill command,
or
3. that there was a button for "refill all canteens" in strategic UI.

Sounds like a convenient idea to me, but I have no clue about feasibility (and since flug dislikes messing with UI, 3. is probably no option here Wink )


thats exactly what i meant Smile
Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #324610] Mon, 02 September 2013 21:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3416
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
3. is definetly out. Adding a new button to strategic would require redoing the sector boundary stis and whatnot.

Ordering the mercs to refill canteens automatically is trivial. However, I'm not sure this would be good, as it would effectively make this feature almost completely obsolete (apart from putting a stack of food into the inventory every so often).


Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #324613] Mon, 02 September 2013 22:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shadow21

 
Messages:334
Registered:November 2001
Location: on route to San Hermanos
Flugente
3. is definetly out. Adding a new button to strategic would require redoing the sector boundary stis and whatnot.

Ordering the mercs to refill canteens automatically is trivial. However, I'm not sure this would be good, as it would effectively make this feature almost completely obsolete (apart from putting a stack of food into the inventory every so often).


its so trivial that even i can do it myself Very Happy. so no need to put it into the code for everyone.
Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #324622] Tue, 03 September 2013 01:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Faalagorn

 
Messages:157
Registered:February 2012
Location: Poland
Flugente
Ordering the mercs to refill canteens automatically is trivial. However, I'm not sure this would be good, as it would effectively make this feature almost completely obsolete (apart from putting a stack of food into the inventory every so often).

I'd also love to see this added. Beside, why not to make it an optional feature?
Flugente
optional feature - a feature that is not compulsory. It is up to you to use it.
Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #324623] Tue, 03 September 2013 01:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3416
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
I'm currently putting together the biggest single commit I did so far (as far as code lines go). Until that is done, me no touch anything.


Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #324626] Tue, 03 September 2013 01:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shadow21

 
Messages:334
Registered:November 2001
Location: on route to San Hermanos
Flugente
I'm currently putting together the biggest single commit I did so far (as far as code lines go). Until that is done, me no touch anything.

we appreciate all your hard work Smile
Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #324634] Tue, 03 September 2013 03:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Faalagorn

 
Messages:157
Registered:February 2012
Location: Poland
Flugente
I'm currently putting together the biggest single commit I did so far (as far as code lines go). Until that is done, me no touch anything.

Dealing with ini restructurization or do you have something else in your mind ^^?
Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #325195] Sun, 15 September 2013 14:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Faalagorn

 
Messages:157
Registered:February 2012
Location: Poland
For some reason, bloodcats can be decapitated and produce a human head... Did they ate a soldier before Wink?

Also, is there any way to do something with bloodcat meat in either stock 1.13 or the latest AFS? Or does it have to be eaten raw or sold?

EDIT: Would it be possible to have an INI option to disable automatic eating from inventory as well? I prefer my micromanagement ^^.

[Updated on: Sun, 15 September 2013 14:52] by Moderator

Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #325250] Mon, 16 September 2013 22:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3416
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Decapitating a bloodcat should give you a pelt instead of a head. Make sure item #232 (bloodcat pelt) has 65536.

The meat can be eaten or sold. You can of course add merges/item transformations, which allow 'cooking'.

Yes, though I don't see why. Just don't give them food in that case.


Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #325254] Tue, 17 September 2013 01:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Faalagorn

 
Messages:157
Registered:February 2012
Location: Poland
Flugente
Yes, though I don't see why. Just don't give them food in that case.

You can't carry food with your mercs without them eating it.

EDIT: About the bloodcats then I think it's an AFS side.

EDIT2: Another bug to report:

After trying to drink a water from canteen when merc's at 125% water, they often say their generic text about finding a rare item. This bug was there since the beginning I think (I remember experiencing it when I last played more than half a year ago)

[Updated on: Tue, 17 September 2013 02:49] by Moderator

Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #325758] Thu, 26 September 2013 21:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Zundman7301

 
Messages:38
Registered:June 2005
Location: USA
Two things:

#1--BUG: When in an occupied enemy sector, you can still auto refill canteens so long as you're in real-time mode. This doesn't make sense, since in most sectors the enemy is between you and the water.

#2--Suggestion: Auto drinking in sectors with a clean water source. It's kind of a hassle that I have to 'water' my mercs when they're in city sectors when they can otherwise refill their canteen with clean water at-will. Buying them food is one thing--because it costs money, and I control the purse. But water is free, and so when it's readily available, and clean, and I still have to 'water' them, it just seems like they're completely helpless to help themselves (maybe Larry would still need help, though?). I think it's a great system, and the player should still have to manually refill their canteens before going out into other sectors. But IMO, it seems really goofy that mercs can't take care of their own needs when they're in a sector with a clean source of water. (This came about by not having enough canteens to go around at the beginning of the game. I can't split my mercs up between city sectors because they all die of thirst). Also, I'd suggest mercs ought to be able to eat out of sector inventory if there's free food to be found there (for the same reasons)--but maybe that's already implemented? From a game perspective, it makes sense that even if mercs don't have canteens, they can still move around the map as long as they plan their trips from one CLEAN watering hole to another. Otherwise, the beginning of the game is broken on harder difficulty levels, since many mercs don't deploy with canteens, and it might be days before you control the Drassen airport, with an additional 24 hours minimum on top of that before you can get the canteens you need from BR's. At least, that's been my experience.
Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #325763] Thu, 26 September 2013 22:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2407
Registered:May 2009
Zundman7301

#1--BUG: When in an occupied enemy sector, you can still auto refill canteens so long as you're in real-time mode. This doesn't make sense, since in most sectors the enemy is between you and the water.

That's not a bug. There are sectors where you find water directly where you enter the sector. Could be a pond, could be a house. There are sectors where you have to cross the whole map.
That's hardly something Flugente can check in the code.

Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #325765] Thu, 26 September 2013 23:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Zundman7301

 
Messages:38
Registered:June 2005
Location: USA
Yeah, but wouldn't it make more sense not to allow it in enemy occupied sectors than to allow it?
Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #325937] Sun, 29 September 2013 21:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3416
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
It is forbidden in sectors with enemy presence if combat has been initiated.


Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #325946] Mon, 30 September 2013 02:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Zombiehunter

 
Messages:185
Registered:March 2011
Location: Franconia, Germany
Zundman7301
Yeah, but wouldn't it make more sense not to allow it in enemy occupied sectors than to allow it?

Why? I don't see your point, if you'd walking into a battlezone, you're still out of the enemy's sight. Then you notice your canteen is almost empty and you're about to cross a small stream of clean and pure water, wouldn't you stop real quick to refill your canteen?
After all, it'd take like 10 sec tops to fill a canteen and firefight is stressy enough, not to mention you never know how long something like that takes and running out of water should be the least of your problems in battle.

Anyways, I really love what you did there with the Foodsystem, Flug. You just added another layer of strategical consideration into the game. Before that resupplying your folks was fairly easy, just make sure they don't run out of ammo and you could just press down onto Meduna in a fairly short time.
I really love it, a big thumbs up to you for that Smile
Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #326008] Mon, 30 September 2013 23:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Zundman7301

 
Messages:38
Registered:June 2005
Location: USA
Zombiehunter

Why? I don't see your point, if you'd walking into a battlezone, you're still out of the enemy's sight. Then you notice your canteen is almost empty and you're about to cross a small stream of clean and pure water, wouldn't you stop real quick to refill your canteen?



I completely agree. If we could walk up to the water source and then have the option to refill, I'd agree with you that this is the way it should work. But more often than not, there are enemies between you and the water source (Example: when you're attacking a SAM site, and the water is in the bathroom of the SAM facility. Or how about when you deploy on the outskirts of a city sector and there are enemies in/around the buildings? Doesn't make sense.) If we can't access sector inventory in an occupied sector (because we're not allowed free movement, lest we run into enemies), it doesn't make sense that we can access sector water for the same reasons.

--But this is all just my opinion. I'm in the minority, so be it.


Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #326009] Mon, 30 September 2013 23:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2407
Registered:May 2009
There is a slight difference in items and water. Items reside at a specific tile while fresh water is a sector tag. You can walk to a tile to pickup an item but you cannot walk to a tile to collect water. There is no info that a certain tile holds water in form of a sink, a garden hose, a water pump or whatever.

So it's basically a design decision that you can refill your canteens if battle has not been initiated.

I think there are more severe problems with occupied sectors that are still not solved. Things like flying there and then start to repair, train or . Wink

Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #326021] Tue, 01 October 2013 03:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Zundman7301

 
Messages:38
Registered:June 2005
Location: USA
silversurfer

So it's basically a design decision...


Yeah, my point exactly. I was just stating that, from a design perspective, it makes more sense for it to fall one way instead of the other.
Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #326022] Tue, 01 October 2013 03:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Zombiehunter

 
Messages:185
Registered:March 2011
Location: Franconia, Germany
silversurfer

I think there are more severe problems with occupied sectors that are still not solved. Things like flying there and then start to repair, train or . Wink


That might be very very true, but this thread is about the foodsystem exclusively Wink

Zundman7301

I completely agree. If we could walk up to the water source and then have the option to refill, I'd agree with you that this is the way it should work. But more often than not, there are enemies between you and the water source (Example: when you're attacking a SAM site, and the water is in the bathroom of the SAM facility. Or how about when you deploy on the outskirts of a city sector and there are enemies in/around the buildings? Doesn't make sense.) If we can't access sector inventory in an occupied sector (because we're not allowed free movement, lest we run into enemies), it doesn't make sense that we can access sector water for the same reasons.

--But this is all just my opinion. I'm in the minority, so be it.


Okay I understand your point, in Desert Sam refilling your canteen, before battle might seem a little far fetched. On the other hand, there are ways to extract water from cacti (don't ask me how though Wink ) But if I understood silversurfer right, as long as there are no open bodies of water in the map, then you're not able to refill your canteen anyways and on the most other maps, the bodies of water are quite big stretching from on edge to another.

Anyways, to be honest because of my mapping commitments I am not really able to play that much lately, so I can't quite check it out right now.
Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #326060] Tue, 01 October 2013 23:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Zundman7301

 
Messages:38
Registered:June 2005
Location: USA
Quote:
But if I understood silversurfer right, as long as there are no open bodies of water in the map, then you're not able to refill your canteen anyways and on the most other maps, the bodies of water are quite big stretching from on edge to another.



Correct. But I'm not as concerned about "poison" water, which is all open bodies of water. In the case of those (steams, ponds etc.,) you're right, mercs MAY be able to sneak in and fill their canteens, because it's usually all over the map (but it's still questionable about whether they would run into enemies on the way, unless your mercs are RIGHT next to a water tile, but as SilverSurfer pointed out, making proximity to certain tiles a requirement for a refill requires a bunch of new code, which definitely isn't necessary). --I'm mainly talking about "clean" sources of water--those found in city or military sectors (e.g.: when the water is found inside buildings). When occupied by an enemy, it doesn't make sense that your merc can sneak into a house otherwise surrounded by soldiers to get a drink. With the way the other game systems work (ex.: sector inventory), it's nonsensical. Additionally, however, for the reasons stated above, allowing mercs to refill in pond sectors when enemies are present is still questionable.


As a result, instead of making minor distinctions and writing a bunch of new code about when/where mercs can refill. It makes the most sense to just change the conditions for a successful refill command to "no enemies in the sector," just like accessing sector inventory.

Simple. Easy. And the most logical. As SilverSurfer pointed out, it's not technically a bug. But when I was able to do it it at the Drassen airport while the whole sector was crawling with enemies, it seemed so wacky to me that I assumed it must have been.

My 2c.
Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #326062] Wed, 02 October 2013 02:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Zombiehunter

 
Messages:185
Registered:March 2011
Location: Franconia, Germany
Calling open bodies of water poisoneous, is a bit far-fetched, most of the time unprocessed water found in the nature, is as good, sometimes even better than tapwater (unless there is some heavy industry nearby, or it's a non flowing body of water, if there is too much algae, then the Oxygen levels are too low etc etc.), when in doubt, in the German EPA are a few water purifying pills, just drop it into your canteen and you have the wonderful taste of chemically treated water Wink


Anyways I see your point, perhaps there will be a better solution in the future.
Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #326064] Wed, 02 October 2013 02:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Zundman7301

 
Messages:38
Registered:June 2005
Location: USA
Zombiehunter
Calling open bodies of water poisoneous, is a bit far-fetched.


Totally true. Smile I'm just using the values/vocabulary Flugente set for different types of water. "Open/Natural" water in the game will poison your mercs if they drink it.
Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #326066] Wed, 02 October 2013 03:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Zombiehunter

 
Messages:185
Registered:March 2011
Location: Franconia, Germany
Okay I didn't know that, that actually seems a bit strange.
Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #326067] Wed, 02 October 2013 03:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3416
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
The only poisonous water is the one taken from swamps, or heavy industrial sectors. Sea water cannot be consumed, water from lakes/rivers is okay.


Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #326068] Wed, 02 October 2013 03:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Zombiehunter

 
Messages:185
Registered:March 2011
Location: Franconia, Germany
Flugente
The only poisonous water is the one taken from swamps, or heavy industrial sectors. Sea water cannot be consumed, water from lakes/rivers is okay.


Aaah okay, Swamp water and water from industrial areas being poisonous makes a lot of sence of course and that you can't drink saltwater is a nobrainer (would be good for an item request, Flugente Industries
Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #326073] Wed, 02 October 2013 04:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Zundman7301

 
Messages:38
Registered:June 2005
Location: USA
Flugente
The only poisonous water is the one taken from swamps, or heavy industrial sectors. Sea water cannot be consumed, water from lakes/rivers is okay.


Ah, my mistake Smile You don't want to drink from the rivers and lakes where I live, they've got parasites in them. I must not have read the original post closely enough, and just made the mistake. My apologies. The system still seems a little "open," though.
Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #326297] Sun, 06 October 2013 14:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Deimosruhk

 
Messages:17
Registered:January 2013
Yay.

How do I turn this off?

Thanks!

EDIT: Clarification: How do I turn this off in an existing game?

[Updated on: Sun, 06 October 2013 14:59] by Moderator

Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #326298] Sun, 06 October 2013 15:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gambigobilla

 
Messages:718
Registered:July 2008
As a rule of thumb if the setting exist in gamestart options, you cannot change it midgame (excluding debugger and hex-editing)
Re: New feature: Mercs need food and water to survive[message #326302] Sun, 06 October 2013 16:35 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Deimosruhk

 
Messages:17
Registered:January 2013
Thanks.
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