Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » v1.13 Modding, Customising, Editing » v1.13 XML Customization » IMP Starting Items
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| Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308463]
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Tue, 31 July 2012 21:35  
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 leyon |
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Messages:93
Registered:February 2011 |
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Sam: Good call on the .ini setting! Didn't know about that one!
Lemme post the default items created first so you can have a good overview.
Toggle SpoilerDefault Items(4):
Kevlar Vest
LBE Vest
TIMS Pack
TIMS Backpack
Random Item(1):
4/11 - 1st Aid Kit
4/11 - Canteen
1/11 - Leg Protectors
1/11 - Folding Stock
1/11 - Retractable Stock
Stat-Based Items-
Marksmanship(1):
0-40 - M1911A1 Hi-Cap
41-50 - Glock 17
51-70 - FN Browning HP-35 .40
71-80 - MP5A4
81-90 - MP510/A3
91-99 - KAC PDW
Major Traits-
Auto Weapons / Machinegunner(2):
Foregrip
SAW Pouch
Heavy Weapons / Bombardier(2):
M79 (loaded with 40mm Stun, I think)
40mm HE
Marksman / Sniper (1/2):
Bipod
Scope 10x (Sniper only)
Hunter / Ranger (1):
1/2 - Baikal MP-133
1/2 - Fabarm FP6
Gunslinger / Gunfighter (2):
Colt Anaconda
Revolver Holster
Hand-to-Hand / Martial Arts (4):
Knuckle Dusters
Marbles
Energy Booster x2
Deputy / Squadleader (4):
Extended Ear
Sun Goggles
Cuban Cigars
Beer
Technician / Engineer (2):
Toolkit
Locksmith Kit
Paramedic / Doctor (3):
1st Aid Kit
Medical Kit
Regen Boost
Minor Traits-
Ambidextrous(1):
1/8 - Glock 17
1/8 - Beretta 92F
1/8 - Glock 19
1/8 - FN BDA 9
1/8 - HK P7M8
1/8 - SIG P210
1/8 - SIG P229R
1/8 - SIG P229R (9x19mm)
Melee(1):
2/9 - Combat Knife
3/9 - Retractable Baton
3/9 - Light Knife
1/9 - Seal 2000
Throwing(2):
Throwing Knife x2
Night Ops(2):
NVG I
Break Light
Stealth(1):
Pistol Suppressor
Athletics(2):
Canteen
TT 3-Day Pack
Bodybuilding(1):
Crowbar
Demolitions(3):*this one is a bit odd, 3 item slots over 5 items
2/5 - Mini Grenade
2/5 - MK2 Grenade
1/5 - Detonator
Teaching(2):
Sun Goggles
Platinum Watch
Scouting(1):
Compact Binoculars
Now here's my proposed list:
Toggle SpoilerDefault Items(1):
LBE Vest
Kevlar Vest
Random Items(1):
1/10 - Glock 17
1/10 - Desert Eagle .357
1/10 - Beretta 92F
1/10 - Colt 1911A1
1/10 - FN Browning HP-35 .40
1/10 - FN BDA 9
1/10 - MP-446 Viking
1/10 - HK P7M8
1/10 - SIG P226R
1/10 - MP-443 Grach
Stat-Based Items-
Wisdom(0):
???
Dexterity(0):
???
Agility(0):
???
Strength(1):
0-39 - Blackhawk Pack
40-59 - TT 3-Day Pack
60-79 - TIMS Pack
80-89 - ARUC Backpack
90-99 - MALICE3 Backpack
Health(0):
???
Leadership(0):
???
Marksmanship(0):
???
Explosives(1):
40-59 - Mini-Grenade
60-69 - MK2 Grenade
70-79 - Stun Grenade
80-89 - Tear Gas Grenade
90-99 - Mustard Gas Grenade
Mechanical(1):
50-99 - Toolkit
Medical(1):
50-99 - First Aid Kit
Major Traits-
*Front Line Traits like Deputies, Heavy Weapons, Auto Weapons and Hunters receive better armour.
Auto Weapons / Machinegunner(2/3):
Uzi
MP5/40A3, Foregrip(Machinegunner)
Heavy Weapons / Bombardier(2/4):
M79
M203PI, 40mm HE, 40mm Grenade Panel (Bombardier)
Marksman / Sniper (3/4):
7x Scope, SKS
7x Scope, Ruger Mini-14, Flash Suppressor (Sniper)
Hunter / Ranger (3/5):
Baikal MP-133, Desert Camo Kit
Fabarm FP6, Leg Protectors, Desert Camo Kit, Duckbill (Ranger)
Gunslinger / Gunfighter (3/4):
Revolver Holster, Barracuda
Revolver Holster, Colt Python Scope 2x (Gunfighter)
Hand-to-Hand / Martial Arts (3/5):
Knuckle Dusters, Marbles
Knuckle Dusters, Marbles, Smoke Grenade, Energy Booster (Martial Arts)
Deputy / Squadleader (3/5):
Extended Ear, Sun Goggles
Extended Ear, Leg Protectors, Officer's Hat, Sun Goggles (Squadleader)
Technician / Engineer (2/5):
Locksmith Kit
Utility Knife, Quick Glue, Rubber Band, Spring(Engineer)
Paramedic / Doctor (3/5):
Medical Kit, Canteen
Medical Kit, Canteen, Regen Booster, Util./Canteen Rig (Doctor)
Minor Traits-
Ambidextrous(0):
Holster
Melee(1):
1/6 - Retractable Baton
1/6 - Nightstick
1/6 - Pipe Wrench
1/6 - Light Knife
1/6 - Knife
1/6 - SEAL 2000
Throwing(3):
Throwing Knives x3
Night Ops(2):
NVG I, Break Lights
Stealthy(3):
Black Cap, Pistol Suppressor, Marbles
Athletics(2):
Canteen, Energy Booster
Bodybuilding(4):
1/7 - Shovel
1/7 - Crowbar
2/7 - Empty Sandbag
3/7 - Concertina Stack
Demolitions(3):
Shaped Charge, Remote Combo, Tripwire
Teaching(0):
???
Scouting(2):
Compact Binoculars, Wood Camo Kit
That's it for now, I'll check back tomorrow (it's really late!). I tried to layer packs in accordance with strength, but it's a little imperfect. I also tried to layer things like toolkits and medic kits so it follows the respective skills instead of the traits (so that non-paramedics with a high medical skill also have kits, etc.). Also I tried to make it so that our IMP always starts with a pistol and only has other weapons if he takes the associated traits. Some things are more chance-y like Bodybuilding and Melee, whereas most Traits are a guaranteed set of items. I also tried to layer it so troops which see more fighting like heavy weapons users or hunters will be slightly better armoured compared to non-frontline troops like technicians or medics.
Things to check:
1. Are the weapon selections I made too strong? I can't use the XML Editor atm, and am just ballparking the strength of the guns now.
2. Can the sniper's weapon actually use the bipod that comes with it?
3. What items should someone with a teaching trait bring? I was thinking money if I couldn't think of anything good.
4. Should ambidextrous trait users get something as well? In the old xmls you'd get 3 weapons if you took ambidex + gunslinger. I assume we want to avoid that.
5. A potential issue is that if the player takes no major traits, he won't have armour...
[Updated on: Wed, 01 August 2012 13:32] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Corporal 1st Class
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| Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308470]
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Tue, 31 July 2012 23:03
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| Sam Hotte |
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Messages:1966
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany |
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I'd suggest giving the expert either another item to pimp the gun or an improved version of the specialist weapon (like heavy throwing knife to throwing expert) if available or components of merges or a fitting LBE item. Like:
1. Auto Weapons Exp - c-mag adaptor, flash suppressor, rod&spring, SAW-vest.
2. Heavy Weapons Exp - the more modern 40mm launcher (maybe even the underbarrel variant?), additional type of grenade (like smoke or tear gas) or a molotov (in parts), grenade panel or police vest.
3. Ranger Exp - duckbill or a choke, camo MK1 for helmet, camo shirt, camo hat, rambo knife, cutlass, barrel extender
4. Gunslinger Exp - match sight, another type of holster, pistol vest.
5. Martial Arts Exp - nunchaku, shuriken, baton
6. Squadleader Exp - officer's hat, -uniform, beret, binos, (a typical officer's pistol like luger or psm?), sabre.
7. Technician Exp - something for mcgyvering (utility, wire, glue, tape ...), utility vest, utility pouch.
maybe just add a fitting LBE or camo item to the experts, making them a bit more special without changing balance?
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308477]
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Wed, 01 August 2012 06:30
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| leyon |
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Messages:93
Registered:February 2011 |
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Yeah, I was thinking of moving vests off to the traits as well - but you get the same potential issue with taking no major traits - no armour AND no vests. I don't know if there's a good way around that, since you CAN pick major traits, but you MUST pick minor traits no traits at all. Should we assume that people will ALWAYS pick at least one major trait?
Auto Weapons - C-Mags and Rod & Spring might be too OP to start with, Flash Suppressor sounds fine though.
Gunslinger - I was thinking of adding non-Revolver pistol types but having a revolver does show the power of the pistol with two aimed - plus you can pair it with a faster-firing weapon.
Squadleader - The problem is if I assign another pistol to the IMP is that he'll have two pistols (one from random items on from Squadleader) which might be a bit odd.
Martial Arts - generally useful only if you're bare-handed, or have a knuckle duster at most. The items you propose would be more for flavour, I'm guessing?
Throwing - minor trait so you don't really get an 'expert' level, even though there seems to be allowance for it in the xml, which is odd.
Some of your suggestions make sense, and some others were already in the proposed list. I'll revise the post a bit. I'm trying to generally make our IMP so that he fits at least one of the following criteria:
1. As low-powered (yet useful) as possible
2. Has a good weapon with a LOW supply of ammo such that he can't take over Drassen without help.
3. Has items that will be useful in the immediate-to-near future (attachments, merge items, etc.)
[Updated on: Wed, 01 August 2012 07:07] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Corporal 1st Class
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| Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308487]
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Wed, 01 August 2012 11:08
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| Sam Hotte |
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Messages:1966
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany |
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Ari_LazarusYeah, I was thinking of moving vests off to the traits as well - but you get the same potential issue with taking no major traits - no armour AND no vests. I don't know if there's a good way around that, since you CAN pick major traits, but you MUST pick minor traits no traits at all. Should we assume that people will ALWAYS pick at least one major trait?
I' leave the basic vest to everyone as it is now and *add* a more specialised LBE item fitting to the expert trait.
Quote:Auto Weapons - C-Mags and Rod & Spring might be too OP to start with, Flash Suppressor sounds fine though. e early game at all since it easier can not be
Just to make sure: i meant to add just one single item to expert as compared to the same single trait. IMHO C-mag does not change early game at all, becaused it either can not be used until finding an fitting AR (5.56) or in case of the 9mm Cmag you just have larger mag in your 9mm mp which isn't such a big thing in my book. Similar with R&S, probably won't go into your starting gun, so it would be like the sniper scope for the expert sniper: something that you use later and will come across sooner or later anyway.
Quote:Squadleader - The problem is if I assign another pistol to the IMP is that he'll have two pistols (one from random items on from Squadleader) which might be a bit odd.
Yeah, could be unbalancing; that's why it went in brackets.
Quote:Martial Arts - generally useful only if you're bare-handed, or have a knuckle duster at most. The items you propose would be more for flavour, I'm guessing?
In a way, yes. Were the only things i found in some way connected to martial arts.
Quote:Throwing - minor trait so you don't really get an 'expert' level, even though there seems to be allowance for it in the xml, which is odd.
Old traits are still in the game and playable ... 
Quote:Some of your suggestions make sense, and some others were already in the proposed list.
JFTR: i wrote my suggestions before i read your list, hence the redundancy ... 
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308489]
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Wed, 01 August 2012 11:33
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| leyon |
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Messages:93
Registered:February 2011 |
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LBEs - so the IMP might get two vests if he takes an expert trait? Seems like item repetition.
Old Traits - Yeah I kinda forgot they existed lol. I'm mostly thinking about this from a new trait perspective since that's what I'm playing. Don't even really remember old traits anymore haha.. it must explain the camouflage and electronics entries here.
C-Mags / R&S - True, but it seems that it will be a while before you can use those items. It would make much more sense to me if the items we carried could be used immediately or near immediately (i.e. tripwire for demolition). Hence the reason I downgraded stuff like the sniper scope / bipod to a battle scope / flash suppressor just so it can go on the rifles immediately. For autoweapons, prolly foregrips / stocks would be more immediately useful, but again, this is just my opinion.
I'll make the xml edits and give it a try in a bit... let's see how we fare ^_^
Edit: There does seem to be some issues with certain items. I couldn't add the Talon Grenade Launcher, 40mm Grenade Panel, Molotov Cocktails, or the ALICE Combat Pack... any idea why this is so? Another issue is you can take two separate major traits and potentially get two sets of weapons. But then again, the disadvantage is that your merc is only half as good at both things, so I think that balances out? Maybe I'll remove the armour from traits so that we don't get armour doubling...
[Updated on: Wed, 01 August 2012 13:33] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Corporal 1st Class
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| Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308509]
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Wed, 01 August 2012 21:03
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| Clarkew |
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Messages:75
Registered:May 2011
Location: East Texas, USA |
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Ari_LazarusYeah, I forgot the Anaconda doesn't fit into the holster. I'll switch that out for the Python. Did you find the weapons you put in overpowered, i.e. the ones given by Marksmanship / shotguns from Hunter traits? Also, doesn't your ambi / gunslinger get a 3rd weapon based on his MMS?
It was already setup to give ambi gunslinger three weapons. Used to be a Random 9mm, Colt Anaconda and one from MMS. The old way left you with all that and just one revolver holster for a SMALL pistol. I usually pass off the SMG to another merc. Shotguns are pretty useless without the Ranger trait anyway, you get a pump action with a 2/5 chance of a semi auto if you go rangerx2. My ranger almost always dumps the shotgun in favor of a Mini-14 the second I find one. Even though the bonuses are bigger for using shotguns vs. rifles the reload time is a killer.
Right now I'm running an Ambi/Gunslinger/Hunter. He started off with Beretta, Python,P/A Shotgun and an SMG. Beretta goes to IRA and I swap Igor for his 6 gun and give him the SMG 
Ari_LazarusThe TIMS idea you did isn't bad, I was kinda hoping to add more pack variety though. Too bad there's no neat way to add both a pack and backpack. My bodybuilding trait also has a chance for a shovel / crowbar / concertina / empty sandbags. All should fit nicely if they pick the right strength amount though.
Initially that's what I wanted too. The way its set up though it seems you'll always end up with too many LBE's for the slots you have. Maybe you could tie them to a trait like intelligence. That way low IQ IMPS start off with a Hunter Vest instead of standard LBE and geniuses get a Tach Vest...
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Corporal
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| Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308529]
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Thu, 02 August 2012 16:48
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| Sam Hotte |
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Messages:1966
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany |
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Any immediately useable scope is a major change in balance (with NCTH that is). I'd stick with 7x/or 10x scope on the sniper expert and a gun that cannot use it in the beginning. Maybe give the sniper one of the 9mm carbines instead of a SMG if you prefer but not a big rifle.
If you aim for variety in armour and LBE, remove all the default items and tie them to a stat, like:
armor -> AGI: low values = leather jacket, medium = Flak vest, high = kevlar.
combat pack -> HEALTH: low = blackhawk, medium = TT3, high = TIMS
Backpack -> STR: low + medium = none, high = TIMS
(so nobody would get any incompatible combination, nobody without combat pack and only healthiest and strongest IMPs would have Backpack at all)
LBE -> WIS: here you could vary even more like going from low to very high: hunter, lbe, police, blackhack, utility, pistol.
Re-tie weapon choice to MRK (purely random choice makes no sense here in my book) and re-invent random useful things like canteens, FA-kit, stocks etc.
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308567]
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Fri, 03 August 2012 15:27
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| leyon |
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Messages:93
Registered:February 2011 |
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Righto, here's a revised list to be less OP... 
Toggle SpoilerDefault Items(1):
First Aid Kit (so we don't bleed out to death if hit by a good shot in the landing zone)
Random Items(1):
1/10 - Glock 17 (9x19mm)
1/10 - FN BDA 9 (9x19mm)
1/10 - Beretta 92F (9x19mm)
1/10 - Makarov PM (9x18mm)
1/10 - CZ-52 (7.62x25mm)
1/10 - Tokarev TT-33 (7.62x25mm)
1/10 - FN Browning HP-35 .40 (.40 S&W)
1/10 - HK USP (.40 S&W
1/10 - Colt 1911A1 (.45 ACP)
1/10 - Desert Eagle .357 (.357 Mag)
Wisdom(1):
0-39 - Hunter Vest
40-49 - LBE Vest
50-59 - Russian 106 Vest
60-69 - Russian 107 Vest
70-79 - TAC-1E Pistol Vest
80-89 - German Flecktarn Vest
90-99 - TAC-1B Utility Vest
Dexterity(0):
???
Agility(0):
???
Strength(1):
0-39 - Blackhawk Patrol Pack
40-69 - TT 3-Day Pack
70-99 - TIMS Combat Pack
Health(1):
0-49 - Kevlar Vest
50-99 - Flak Jacket
Leadership(0):
???
Marksmanship(0):
???
Explosives(1):
40-59 - Mini Grenade (hvy. weaps./demolitions gives 45 explosive minimum)
60-79 - MK2 Grenade
80-99 - Stun Grenade
Mechanical(1):
40-100 - Toolkit (technician gives 45 mechanical min.)
Medical(1):
40-100 - Medical Kit (paramedic gives 45 medical min.)
Major Traits-
*Front Line Traits like Deputies, Heavy Weapons, Auto Weapons and Hunters receive better armour.
Auto Weapons / Machinegunner(1/2):
Uzi
MP5/40A3, Foregrip (Machinegunner)
Heavy Weapons / Bombardier(1/2):
M79
M203PI, 40mm HE (Bombardier)
Marksman / Sniper (1/3):
M1 Carbine
Winchester 94 Trapper, .44 Mag, 10x Scope (Sniper)
Hunter / Ranger (1/3):
Baikal MP-133
Fabarm FP6, Leg Protectors, Duckbill (Ranger)
Gunslinger / Gunfighter (3/4):
Revolver Holster, .38 SPC, .38 Speed Loader
Revolver Holster, Colt Python, .357 Mag (Gunfighter)
Hand-to-Hand / Martial Arts (2/5):
Knuckle Dusters, Marbles
Knuckle Dusters, Marbles, Shuriken, Smoke Grenade, Energy Booster (Martial Arts)
Deputy / Squadleader (2/4):
Extended Ear, Sun Goggles
Extended Ear, Leg Protectors, Officer's Hat, Sun Goggles (Squadleader)
Technician / Engineer (1/4):
Locksmith Kit
Utility Knife, Quick Glue, Rubber Band, Spring(Engineer)
Paramedic / Doctor (1/3):
Canteen
Canteen, Regen Booster, Util./Canteen Rig (Doctor)
Minor Traits-
Ambidextrous(0):
Holster
Melee(1):
1/6 - Retractable Baton
1/6 - Nightstick
1/6 - Pipe Wrench
1/6 - Light Knife
1/6 - Knife
1/6 - SEAL 2000
Throwing(3):
Throwing Knives x3
Night Ops(2):
NVG I, Break Lights
Stealthy(3):
Black Cap, Pistol Suppressor, Marbles
Athletics(2):
Canteen, Energy Booster
Bodybuilding(4):
Shovel, Crowbar, Empty Sandbag, TIMS Backpack
Demolitions(4):
Shaped Charge, Remote Combo, Tripwire x2
Teaching(0):
???
Scouting(1):
Compact Binoculars
Changes
1. Made the random pistols lean towards 9x19mm, 7.62x25mm and .40 S&W calibers so we won't run out of ammo too easily.
2. LBE Gear based on WIS.
3. Combat Packs based on STR. Backpacks only with Bodybuilding.
4. Armour inversely proportionate to Health.
5. Slightly harder to get grenades, reduced variety of starting grenades.
6. Lowered Mechanical and Medical requirements to get discipline-related kit.
7. Switched out the rifles for Marksman/Sniper for .. crappier guns? I need to check the stats.
8. Made Bodybuilding a sure set of gear now, mostly leaning toward fort building (1 bag).
9. Nerfed Gunfighter to give .38 revolver, you only get .357 if you specialize.
What do you think?
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Corporal 1st Class
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| Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308573]
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Fri, 03 August 2012 17:28
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| Sam Hotte |
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Messages:1966
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany |
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M2P:
1. still quite dislike random guns. OTOH randomness makes you try different things and tactics, which is not bad at all. Guess this leaves me undecided in this respect.
2. dislike default FA-kit. Leave it at random, so that not everybody always gets one.
3. LBE-vest selection is too good, IMO. Leave out the russians and german vest. At least recheck sorting (e.g. utility vest is inferior to 108).
4. Dunno if this might result into too many items, but we could issue knifes according to DEX or AGI. Or, if adding melee weapons here is to unbalancing, we could hand out macgyvering things or stocks etc..
5. Dislike the inversion of armor; it's counter intuitive and soesn't make sense to me. Your reasoning is sound (from player's outside PoV), tho. Hence i'd suggest shifting LBE to health (the healthier the more things the vest allows to carry) and armor to WIS: the clever IMPs bring better armor. (The player spreads things between all his mercs as he sees fit anyway)
If you want to exaggerate: the dumbest IMPs don't bring armor at all, but porn mag or game boy ...
6.Very dislike the main items for a trait (like med- or toolkit) being shiftet to stat. I'd prefer the other way round: If you want a toolkit - "pick the trait. period." So better tie toolkit, medkit and grenades to the traits and give the supporting things like canteen, lockpicks etc. to the according stats. And do keep in mind that in newer versions traits are no longer bound to a certain stat value; this can be disabled in the ini in versions after 4870.
7. Do not add things that only work with Flugente's optional new features, IMO.
8. Give the watch back to teachers, they are useful as soon as you find copperwire ... . Or give them a rag (for cleaning blackboard)
9. leadership could be issuing the more "cosmetic" things like beer and cigars.
[Updated on: Fri, 03 August 2012 17:38] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Sergeant Major
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| Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308596]
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Fri, 03 August 2012 21:08
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| Sam Hotte |
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Messages:1966
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany |
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1. maybe add some of the small one handed, light MPs to the selection to reflect NCTH were many plyers think they need to have burst fire.(skorpion, MP5K, auto versions of glock and beretta pistols, this kind of guns).
2. FA-kits is currently random, so that should not be a big change. And it again encourages player to aplie different tactics ("I need to steal some FA-kits before storming in rmbo-like and getting shot often ..." ) But, if you have the guns random, i dunno if and how it worked to avoid the game randomly picking more guns or no gun at all ...
3. Yeah, meant the vest you wrote, the one that is in vanilla, the russian utility vest with additional small grenade slots. The grenade slots take at least everything that fits in a tiny (often one stackable item more). So 2 grenade slots are better than tiny + small, IMHO.
6. that's exactly why i don't like it: Don't want to encourage the player to have a e.g. machinegunner with all the fighting bonuses who also can repair things from the beginning because he brings toolkit along. If you want to be able to repair the things you found in first sectors - hire somebody with according supportive trait. You know, disencourage jack of all trade chars that rule the early game. But that s just me, i don't claim this to be the ultimate best reasoning ...
About the ini, it's probably the skill settings ini. Tho i'm not sure where this might be located, i'm quite certain that Sandro did externalize the obligatory "stats are tied to traits" (because there were flaws in it like the hunter needing leadership which does not make too much sense).
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Sergeant Major
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HK MP5KA4 /(9) HK MP5A4 / (10) HK MP5/10A3 (...I always found myself building 79 Mark just so I wouldn't get the 10mm weapon that I can never find ammo for) 
