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IMP Starting Items[message #308453] Tue, 31 July 2012 14:55 Go to next message
leyon

 
Messages:95
Registered:February 2011
Having taken a look at the xml for IMP beginning gear, I have some questions:

1. Aside from the Marksman/Sniper, all other major traits and their corresponding expert versions have the same equipment. Was this done for balance reasons, or is it just a matter of no one getting around to setting it yet? I might give customizing it a go once I figure out how to run the XML editor without using the .Net framework...

2. Based on the Marksmanship scores, I've noticed that the best weapon you can start out with seems to be the KAC PDW (which will never get picked since you max out at 85% marksmanship and you need 90%+ to get it). I'm assuming this is for balance reasons, but would putting a non-sniper rifle be broken if I gave it to, say, a Sniper (I'm thinking of the starting rifles like SKS etc.). At least they'd get to use the scope / bipod they keep getting.

3. Some item combinations don't make much sense to me:
Deputy/Squadleader - Cuban Cigars / Beer?
Athletics - TT 3-Day Pack when all IMPs already start with a TIMS combo.
Demolitions - Starting with a detonator but no TNT? Sad
Teaching - Platinum Watch?

Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308456] Tue, 31 July 2012 17:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2031
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
1. in the xml file there are different parts prepared for trait X and trait X expert. But i have not checked myself neither if there are different items nor if that maybe only applies to old traits.

2. you can adjust in options.ini if you allow more than 85 points in the IMP creation process. Hence you can very well give 90+ points in MRK if you want to.

3. Any good leader's stereotype needs a cigar; imagine A-Team's Hannibal without smoking a cigar after the show ... impossible! Wink
Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308458] Tue, 31 July 2012 17:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3777
Registered:July 2009
1) If nobody changed that since, they are indeed the same - blame my laziness (also had no clue what to give as balanced choices for them Razz )


Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308463] Tue, 31 July 2012 21:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
leyon

 
Messages:95
Registered:February 2011
Sam: Good call on the .ini setting! Didn't know about that one!

Lemme post the default items created first so you can have a good overview.

Toggle Spoiler

Now here's my proposed list:
Toggle Spoiler


That's it for now, I'll check back tomorrow (it's really late!). I tried to layer packs in accordance with strength, but it's a little imperfect. I also tried to layer things like toolkits and medic kits so it follows the respective skills instead of the traits (so that non-paramedics with a high medical skill also have kits, etc.). Also I tried to make it so that our IMP always starts with a pistol and only has other weapons if he takes the associated traits. Some things are more chance-y like Bodybuilding and Melee, whereas most Traits are a guaranteed set of items. I also tried to layer it so troops which see more fighting like heavy weapons users or hunters will be slightly better armoured compared to non-frontline troops like technicians or medics.

Things to check:
1. Are the weapon selections I made too strong? I can't use the XML Editor atm, and am just ballparking the strength of the guns now.
2. Can the sniper's weapon actually use the bipod that comes with it?
3. What items should someone with a teaching trait bring? I was thinking money if I couldn't think of anything good.
4. Should ambidextrous trait users get something as well? In the old xmls you'd get 3 weapons if you took ambidex + gunslinger. I assume we want to avoid that.
5. A potential issue is that if the player takes no major traits, he won't have armour...

[Updated on: Wed, 01 August 2012 13:32] by Moderator

Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308470] Tue, 31 July 2012 23:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2031
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
I'd suggest giving the expert either another item to pimp the gun or an improved version of the specialist weapon (like heavy throwing knife to throwing expert) if available or components of merges or a fitting LBE item. Like:
1. Auto Weapons Exp - c-mag adaptor, flash suppressor, rod&spring, SAW-vest.
2. Heavy Weapons Exp - the more modern 40mm launcher (maybe even the underbarrel variant?), additional type of grenade (like smoke or tear gas) or a molotov (in parts), grenade panel or police vest.
3. Ranger Exp - duckbill or a choke, camo MK1 for helmet, camo shirt, camo hat, rambo knife, cutlass, barrel extender
4. Gunslinger Exp - match sight, another type of holster, pistol vest.
5. Martial Arts Exp - nunchaku, shuriken, baton
6. Squadleader Exp - officer's hat, -uniform, beret, binos, (a typical officer's pistol like luger or psm?), sabre.
7. Technician Exp - something for mcgyvering (utility, wire, glue, tape ...), utility vest, utility pouch.

maybe just add a fitting LBE or camo item to the experts, making them a bit more special without changing balance?
Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308477] Wed, 01 August 2012 06:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
leyon

 
Messages:95
Registered:February 2011
Yeah, I was thinking of moving vests off to the traits as well - but you get the same potential issue with taking no major traits - no armour AND no vests. I don't know if there's a good way around that, since you CAN pick major traits, but you MUST pick minor traits no traits at all. Should we assume that people will ALWAYS pick at least one major trait?

Auto Weapons - C-Mags and Rod & Spring might be too OP to start with, Flash Suppressor sounds fine though.

Gunslinger - I was thinking of adding non-Revolver pistol types but having a revolver does show the power of the pistol with two aimed - plus you can pair it with a faster-firing weapon.

Squadleader - The problem is if I assign another pistol to the IMP is that he'll have two pistols (one from random items on from Squadleader) which might be a bit odd.

Martial Arts - generally useful only if you're bare-handed, or have a knuckle duster at most. The items you propose would be more for flavour, I'm guessing?

Throwing - minor trait so you don't really get an 'expert' level, even though there seems to be allowance for it in the xml, which is odd.

Some of your suggestions make sense, and some others were already in the proposed list. I'll revise the post a bit. I'm trying to generally make our IMP so that he fits at least one of the following criteria:
1. As low-powered (yet useful) as possible
2. Has a good weapon with a LOW supply of ammo such that he can't take over Drassen without help.
3. Has items that will be useful in the immediate-to-near future (attachments, merge items, etc.)

[Updated on: Wed, 01 August 2012 07:07] by Moderator

Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308481] Wed, 01 August 2012 09:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Clarkew

 
Messages:80
Registered:May 2011
Location: East Texas, USA
I've been using a modded IMPItemChoices for a while. Some of my choices are only in the "Tons of Guns" section but that's the only way I play. Major changes are as follows:

* Default Items: Kevlar Vest, LBE Gear & TIMS Combat pack (Moved the Backpack to Athletics / Bodybuilding)
* Marksmanship: (7)Skorpian / (Cool HK MP5KA4 /(9) HK MP5A4 / (10) HK MP5/10A3 (...I always found myself building 79 Mark just so I wouldn't get the 10mm weapon that I can never find ammo for)
* Sniper: Bipod
* Sniper Expert: Bipod, Small scope (2x)
* Ranger: Random MP-133, FP6 or Ithica Model 37
* Ranger Expert: Above plus the chance of Beneli M3 or Spas 12
* Gunslinger: Colt Python & Revolver Holster
* Gunslinger Expert: Colt Anaconda & Revolver Holster
* Auto: Foregrip
* Auto Exp: Forgrip & SAW Pouch
* Martial Arts: Knuckle Dusters & Marbles
* Martial Arts Exp: Knuckle Dusters, Marbles & Energy Boost x2
* Squadleader Exp: Added a "Hat" (the bonuses you get from deputyx2 are already huge)
* Doctor Exp: Added Medical Pouch to stock picks
* Ambidextrous: Beretta 92F and Holster
* Night Ops: NVGI, Break Light & Black Cap
* Athletics: Canteen & TIMS Backpack
* Bodybuilder: Shovel & TIMS Backpack
* Demo: Mini Grenade x3
* Tech: Lockpick
* Tech Exp: Lockpick & ToolBox

This way an Ambi/Gunslinger gets two handguns and two holsters and there shouldn't be a way to get more LBEs than your IMP has slots for. Also It always bugged me that a Gunslinger got this HUGE gun but it didn't fit in the holster. I rarely take Gunslinger Exp anyway...

Bodybuilder gets a Shovel so he can fill sandbags (something I still havn't really used).

I didn't mess with Heavy since it already seems kinda overpowered to start with a Grenade launcher and I couldn't get the XML editor to accept 40mm Gren Panel anyway (Maybe I'll get around to doing it manually...)





[Updated on: Wed, 01 August 2012 09:18] by Moderator

Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308485] Wed, 01 August 2012 10:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
leyon

 
Messages:95
Registered:February 2011
Yeah, I forgot the Anaconda doesn't fit into the holster. I'll switch that out for the Python. Did you find the weapons you put in overpowered, i.e. the ones given by Marksmanship / shotguns from Hunter traits? Also, doesn't your ambi / gunslinger get a 3rd weapon based on his MMS?

The TIMS idea you did isn't bad, I was kinda hoping to add more pack variety though. Too bad there's no neat way to add both a pack and backpack. My bodybuilding trait also has a chance for a shovel / crowbar / concertina / empty sandbags. All should fit nicely if they pick the right strength amount though.

[Updated on: Wed, 01 August 2012 10:17] by Moderator

Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308487] Wed, 01 August 2012 11:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2031
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
Ari_Lazarus
Yeah, I was thinking of moving vests off to the traits as well - but you get the same potential issue with taking no major traits - no armour AND no vests. I don't know if there's a good way around that, since you CAN pick major traits, but you MUST pick minor traits no traits at all. Should we assume that people will ALWAYS pick at least one major trait?

I' leave the basic vest to everyone as it is now and *add* a more specialised LBE item fitting to the expert trait.

Quote:
Auto Weapons - C-Mags and Rod & Spring might be too OP to start with, Flash Suppressor sounds fine though.
e early game at all since it easier can not be
Just to make sure: i meant to add just one single item to expert as compared to the same single trait. IMHO C-mag does not change early game at all, becaused it either can not be used until finding an fitting AR (5.56) or in case of the 9mm Cmag you just have larger mag in your 9mm mp which isn't such a big thing in my book. Similar with R&S, probably won't go into your starting gun, so it would be like the sniper scope for the expert sniper: something that you use later and will come across sooner or later anyway.

Quote:
Squadleader - The problem is if I assign another pistol to the IMP is that he'll have two pistols (one from random items on from Squadleader) which might be a bit odd.

Yeah, could be unbalancing; that's why it went in brackets.

Quote:
Martial Arts - generally useful only if you're bare-handed, or have a knuckle duster at most. The items you propose would be more for flavour, I'm guessing?

In a way, yes. Were the only things i found in some way connected to martial arts.

Quote:
Throwing - minor trait so you don't really get an 'expert' level, even though there seems to be allowance for it in the xml, which is odd.

Old traits are still in the game and playable ... Wink

Quote:
Some of your suggestions make sense, and some others were already in the proposed list.

JFTR: i wrote my suggestions before i read your list, hence the redundancy ... Smile
Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308489] Wed, 01 August 2012 11:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
leyon

 
Messages:95
Registered:February 2011
LBEs - so the IMP might get two vests if he takes an expert trait? Seems like item repetition.

Old Traits - Yeah I kinda forgot they existed lol. I'm mostly thinking about this from a new trait perspective since that's what I'm playing. Don't even really remember old traits anymore haha.. it must explain the camouflage and electronics entries here.

C-Mags / R&S - True, but it seems that it will be a while before you can use those items. It would make much more sense to me if the items we carried could be used immediately or near immediately (i.e. tripwire for demolition). Hence the reason I downgraded stuff like the sniper scope / bipod to a battle scope / flash suppressor just so it can go on the rifles immediately. For autoweapons, prolly foregrips / stocks would be more immediately useful, but again, this is just my opinion.

I'll make the xml edits and give it a try in a bit... let's see how we fare ^_^

Edit: There does seem to be some issues with certain items. I couldn't add the Talon Grenade Launcher, 40mm Grenade Panel, Molotov Cocktails, or the ALICE Combat Pack... any idea why this is so? Another issue is you can take two separate major traits and potentially get two sets of weapons. But then again, the disadvantage is that your merc is only half as good at both things, so I think that balances out? Smile Maybe I'll remove the armour from traits so that we don't get armour doubling...

[Updated on: Wed, 01 August 2012 13:33] by Moderator

Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308498] Wed, 01 August 2012 15:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2031
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
Don't use talon at all; it's a relict from vanilla but AFAIK it doesn't fit anywhere anymore. Use the m203 underbarrel thing instead (ID >900).
What do you mean by "couldn't add"?

Anyway you should not change too many things as item placement into inventories is IIRC somehow tricky as everything has to fit in old inventory slots and cannot be preplaced in LBEs or something.
However i'm not very familiar with this xml stuff. Sad

And i wouldn't be bothered by an expert IMP having two kinds of different LBE-vests, just give the "worse" one to a RPC, MERC etc. or sell it or use it to store different small things in a single backpack slot ...

And you wouldn't need to have all selections and variety to be dependend of traits; you could e.g. give the tripwire according to explosive stat.

Anyway, my appraoch was and would be for standard items available in official release version (hence no e.g. tripwire or sandbag) and not changing balance. So i don't think that'd be compatible with your approach ...
Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308502] Wed, 01 August 2012 19:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
leyon

 
Messages:95
Registered:February 2011
Yeah, I'm using the M203PI instead - works fine.

I didn't know that thing about everything fitting in old inventory slots, that might have something to do with why my IMP doesn't spawn with the items I mentioned earlier even though it's assigned to him - he might just not have enough space... this makes things tricky for me, since I'm editing by hand and not using the XML editor haha.

I would give tripwire based on explosives but I've already used that up for grenades, and I don't think there's a way to both give things based on level, AND give multiple items.

When you say standard / official release you're referring to r4870 yeah? In that case that's fine. I'm more concerned about making the IMPs overly OP, and in some of the combinations above the IMPs start off weaker than the current xml. Very Happy
Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308504] Wed, 01 August 2012 19:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gambigobilla

 
Messages:719
Registered:July 2008
i'm not the expert at this but there is a "standard issue" tag or sth like that for starting items. Could be wrong tho.
Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308506] Wed, 01 August 2012 20:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3777
Registered:July 2009
is the default ammo type ...


Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308508] Wed, 01 August 2012 20:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2031
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
Ari_Lazarus
I'm more concerned about making the IMPs overly OP, and in some of the combinations above the IMPs start off weaker than the current xml. Very Happy

If you asked me, grenades and a sniper with a battlescope on a rifle is way OP (esp. with NCTH), after a quick glance at your list ...
Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308509] Wed, 01 August 2012 21:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Clarkew

 
Messages:80
Registered:May 2011
Location: East Texas, USA
Ari_Lazarus
Yeah, I forgot the Anaconda doesn't fit into the holster. I'll switch that out for the Python. Did you find the weapons you put in overpowered, i.e. the ones given by Marksmanship / shotguns from Hunter traits? Also, doesn't your ambi / gunslinger get a 3rd weapon based on his MMS?


It was already setup to give ambi gunslinger three weapons. Used to be a Random 9mm, Colt Anaconda and one from MMS. The old way left you with all that and just one revolver holster for a SMALL pistol. I usually pass off the SMG to another merc. Shotguns are pretty useless without the Ranger trait anyway, you get a pump action with a 2/5 chance of a semi auto if you go rangerx2. My ranger almost always dumps the shotgun in favor of a Mini-14 the second I find one. Even though the bonuses are bigger for using shotguns vs. rifles the reload time is a killer.

Right now I'm running an Ambi/Gunslinger/Hunter. He started off with Beretta, Python,P/A Shotgun and an SMG. Beretta goes to IRA and I swap Igor for his 6 gun and give him the SMG Very Happy

Ari_Lazarus
The TIMS idea you did isn't bad, I was kinda hoping to add more pack variety though. Too bad there's no neat way to add both a pack and backpack. My bodybuilding trait also has a chance for a shovel / crowbar / concertina / empty sandbags. All should fit nicely if they pick the right strength amount though.


Initially that's what I wanted too. The way its set up though it seems you'll always end up with too many LBE's for the slots you have. Maybe you could tie them to a trait like intelligence. That way low IQ IMPS start off with a Hunter Vest instead of standard LBE and geniuses get a Tach Vest...

Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308523] Thu, 02 August 2012 07:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
leyon

 
Messages:95
Registered:February 2011
Sam_Hotte
If you asked me, grenades and a sniper with a battlescope on a rifle is way OP (esp. with NCTH), after a quick glance at your list ...

That's also true. Maybe restrict grenades to demolitions / high ex and give a 2x or 4x scope instead. It's beginning to resemble the original xmls again haha!

ClarkeW
Initially that's what I wanted too. The way its set up though it seems you'll always end up with too many LBE's for the slots you have. Maybe you could tie them to a trait like intelligence. That way low IQ IMPS start off with a Hunter Vest instead of standard LBE and geniuses get a Tach Vest...

Yeah I might try that out and see how it goes.
Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308529] Thu, 02 August 2012 16:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2031
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
Any immediately useable scope is a major change in balance (with NCTH that is). I'd stick with 7x/or 10x scope on the sniper expert and a gun that cannot use it in the beginning. Maybe give the sniper one of the 9mm carbines instead of a SMG if you prefer but not a big rifle.

If you aim for variety in armour and LBE, remove all the default items and tie them to a stat, like:
armor -> AGI: low values = leather jacket, medium = Flak vest, high = kevlar.
combat pack -> HEALTH: low = blackhawk, medium = TT3, high = TIMS
Backpack -> STR: low + medium = none, high = TIMS
(so nobody would get any incompatible combination, nobody without combat pack and only healthiest and strongest IMPs would have Backpack at all)
LBE -> WIS: here you could vary even more like going from low to very high: hunter, lbe, police, blackhack, utility, pistol.

Re-tie weapon choice to MRK (purely random choice makes no sense here in my book) and re-invent random useful things like canteens, FA-kit, stocks etc.



Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308530] Thu, 02 August 2012 16:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3777
Registered:July 2009
Sam_Hotte
combat pack -> HEALTH: low = blackhawk, medium = TT3, high = TIMS
Backpack -> STR: low + medium = none, high = TIMS
(so nobody would get any incompatible combination, nobody without combat pack and only healthiest and strongest IMPs would have Backpack at all)
High strength, medium health?


Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308532] Thu, 02 August 2012 17:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2031
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
True. I wanted to write "nobody is without a combatpack"; incompatible combinations are always possible if you tie the things to stats or have them randomly.
Thx for correction.
Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308533] Thu, 02 August 2012 17:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3777
Registered:July 2009
I'd say drop backpacks from that selection completely. Will have the nice side effect of reducing the "Why does my IMP have only 80AP" threads significantly.


Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308534] Thu, 02 August 2012 17:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2031
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
Sounds fair to me. Tie backpack (random type, maybe) to bodybuilder trait.
Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308546] Fri, 03 August 2012 06:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
leyon

 
Messages:95
Registered:February 2011
Hmm.

Would it be fair if how good the armour you got was inversely proportionate to your health? I.e. high health = flak, low health = kevlar? I'm thinking if you take a risk with having low health you should sort of be compensated with better armour.

Other than that,
Default - 1st Aid Kit (so you don't bleed out when shot for the first time in Omerta)
Str - Packs
Wis - LBEs
Explosives - Grenades (only at high values)
Medical - Medical Kit (at minimum paramedic values)
Mechanical - Toolkit (at minimum technician values)

Sound good? I'll tone down the items and remake the list in a bit.

The reason I wanted to uncouple Marksmanship from weapons was because it seemed with some choices you could get more 'main' weapons (i.e. SMG + Shotgun, for example) than what seemed fair. I wanted to make it so that regardless of how you pick, you'd always have a pistol + a main weapon at most. SMG seemed to be too much to start with. Of course, then you run into issues where snipers start with a pistol, which isn't very intuitive at all, considering rangers get shotguns and bombardiers get grenade launchers.

Backpacks - only problem would be if we got say ARUC backpacks with our high-strength bodybuilder who already has a TIMS pack. Razz I kinda forgot if Blackhawk Backpacks can go with Blackhawk Combat Packs in vanilla 1.13...
Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308548] Fri, 03 August 2012 06:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Clarkew

 
Messages:80
Registered:May 2011
Location: East Texas, USA
Can't use a Med kit without paramedics or doctor trait. anyone with at least one point in medical can use a first aid kit though...
Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308551] Fri, 03 August 2012 07:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
leyon

 
Messages:95
Registered:February 2011
IIRC anyone with more than 0 medical can use a Medical Kit and the 'Doctor' assignment. Only difference is that they can't heal stat loss from wounds. I did it with my gunfighter quite a bit when I tried to solo Meduna (didn't work, ran out of ammo for my 57s :/).
Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308552] Fri, 03 August 2012 07:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Clarkew

 
Messages:80
Registered:May 2011
Location: East Texas, USA
Think you're right. Never noticed that before but my 35 MED IMP can "use" a med kit. Not sure if that's something new or just something I missed from Vanilla.
Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308567] Fri, 03 August 2012 15:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
leyon

 
Messages:95
Registered:February 2011
Righto, here's a revised list to be less OP... Razz
Toggle Spoiler
Changes
1. Made the random pistols lean towards 9x19mm, 7.62x25mm and .40 S&W calibers so we won't run out of ammo too easily.
2. LBE Gear based on WIS.
3. Combat Packs based on STR. Backpacks only with Bodybuilding.
4. Armour inversely proportionate to Health.
5. Slightly harder to get grenades, reduced variety of starting grenades.
6. Lowered Mechanical and Medical requirements to get discipline-related kit.
7. Switched out the rifles for Marksman/Sniper for .. crappier guns? I need to check the stats.
8. Made Bodybuilding a sure set of gear now, mostly leaning toward fort building (1 bag).
9. Nerfed Gunfighter to give .38 revolver, you only get .357 if you specialize.

What do you think?
Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308573] Fri, 03 August 2012 17:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2031
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
M2P:

1. still quite dislike random guns. OTOH randomness makes you try different things and tactics, which is not bad at all. Guess this leaves me undecided in this respect. Smile

2. dislike default FA-kit. Leave it at random, so that not everybody always gets one.

3. LBE-vest selection is too good, IMO. Leave out the russians and german vest. At least recheck sorting (e.g. utility vest is inferior to 108).

4. Dunno if this might result into too many items, but we could issue knifes according to DEX or AGI. Or, if adding melee weapons here is to unbalancing, we could hand out macgyvering things or stocks etc..

5. Dislike the inversion of armor; it's counter intuitive and soesn't make sense to me. Your reasoning is sound (from player's outside PoV), tho. Hence i'd suggest shifting LBE to health (the healthier the more things the vest allows to carry) and armor to WIS: the clever IMPs bring better armor. Smile (The player spreads things between all his mercs as he sees fit anyway)
If you want to exaggerate: the dumbest IMPs don't bring armor at all, but porn mag or game boy ... Very Happy

6.Very dislike the main items for a trait (like med- or toolkit) being shiftet to stat. I'd prefer the other way round: If you want a toolkit - "pick the trait. period." So better tie toolkit, medkit and grenades to the traits and give the supporting things like canteen, lockpicks etc. to the according stats. And do keep in mind that in newer versions traits are no longer bound to a certain stat value; this can be disabled in the ini in versions after 4870.

7. Do not add things that only work with Flugente's optional new features, IMO.

8. Give the watch back to teachers, they are useful as soon as you find copperwire ... . Or give them a rag (for cleaning blackboard) Wink

9. leadership could be issuing the more "cosmetic" things like beer and cigars.

[Updated on: Fri, 03 August 2012 17:38] by Moderator

Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308575] Fri, 03 August 2012 17:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
drunk71

 
Messages:57
Registered:March 2004
Location: England

Hello all

Loving the ideas and got me thinking about tweaking mine. However I can't get the X-ray device to be in my starting gear. Not sure why. Have put it for expert squad leader. Got all other items. Just don't know why that's missing. It's not sci fi. Any ideas? Thanks.
Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308577] Fri, 03 August 2012 18:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2031
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
Probably too many items, try removing some of the other things and see if it now is in your starting gear. If not, i'd suggest that you start a new thread about it to prevent this "collecting of ideas" getting distracted. Smile
Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308578] Fri, 03 August 2012 18:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
leyon

 
Messages:95
Registered:February 2011
1. Yeah - randomness adds a bit more variety instead of the "Oh look all six of my IMPs got MP5s again!" thing. I only really thought about customizing the XML once I saw that happen haha.

2. Oh man, the newbs are gonna cry. Razz

3. 108 is not in Vanilla I think? You mean 106? The one with grenades? As I recall that one didn't leave much room other than for grenades. I could take out 107 and Flecktarn though, those give quite a bit of stuff.

4. Good idea on the knifes.

5. Porn for dumb mercs. I love it.

6. Here's my reasoning for moving kits to stats - some people may choose to play an IMP with high medical ability or mechanical without taking technician/engineer or paramedic/doctor. As such, it sort of makes sense for them to have those things, because they've sacrificed other stats to get it. Also, which .ini is the one that ties stats to traits? I can't find it...

7. Fair enough, if this is for 4870. I'd make a sexier version for the newer .exes Razz Also I think only food is optional - the rest like tripwires, fortifications are already 'default'.

8 & 9. Doable!
Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308579] Fri, 03 August 2012 18:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
drunk71

 
Messages:57
Registered:March 2004
Location: England

Thanks Sam, It was a coolness factor. Sorry for hijacking the thread....sneaks off Smile
Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308596] Fri, 03 August 2012 21:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2031
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
1. maybe add some of the small one handed, light MPs to the selection to reflect NCTH were many plyers think they need to have burst fire.(skorpion, MP5K, auto versions of glock and beretta pistols, this kind of guns).

2. FA-kits is currently random, so that should not be a big change. And it again encourages player to aplie different tactics ("I need to steal some FA-kits before storming in rmbo-like and getting shot often ..." Wink) But, if you have the guns random, i dunno if and how it worked to avoid the game randomly picking more guns or no gun at all ...

3. Yeah, meant the vest you wrote, the one that is in vanilla, the russian utility vest with additional small grenade slots. The grenade slots take at least everything that fits in a tiny (often one stackable item more). So 2 grenade slots are better than tiny + small, IMHO.

6. that's exactly why i don't like it: Don't want to encourage the player to have a e.g. machinegunner with all the fighting bonuses who also can repair things from the beginning because he brings toolkit along. If you want to be able to repair the things you found in first sectors - hire somebody with according supportive trait. You know, disencourage jack of all trade chars that rule the early game. But that s just me, i don't claim this to be the ultimate best reasoning ... Smile
About the ini, it's probably the skill settings ini. Tho i'm not sure where this might be located, i'm quite certain that Sandro did externalize the obligatory "stats are tied to traits" (because there were flaws in it like the hunter needing leadership which does not make too much sense).



Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308624] Sat, 04 August 2012 07:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
leyon

 
Messages:95
Registered:February 2011
1. Would half the weapons being MP be okay, or too much?
2. Yeah, might be an issue - I could put FA Kits to medical and move off medical kits to traits like you mentioned, though.
3. Utility Vest has 2 medium pockets Razz
6. No, that's a good reason. I'll think about it. In regards to the skill settings, I didn't mean the traits needing stats, I mean the other way around. I.e. if you take paramedic, your medical skill becomes a minimum of 45 automatically. If there's a way to change that, it might be useful to know how.
Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308625] Sat, 04 August 2012 08:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pheloncab

 
Messages:270
Registered:August 2004
Location: So. Cal. or texas
It was suggested I look for answers here since this topic is ongoing.


What are the hierarchy and restrictions that happen when the XML is applied from the Impitemchoices.xml file to the actual imp.dat character that you play?

1)Especially what order do the items in the XML get attached to the character?
Does a backpack in say strength appear and give room for items to be stored better than say a backpack in bodybuilding?

2)Does NIV use a different system than OIV for placement of items?


Thx for any info.
Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308640] Sat, 04 August 2012 15:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
leyon

 
Messages:95
Registered:February 2011
I think Sam Hotte mentioned earlier that items still follow OIV placement, but I haven't played with OIV in so long I don't remember anymore. I think NIV gave you the option for custom items in custom pockets though, something OIV didn't have iirc.
Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308642] Sat, 04 August 2012 16:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2031
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
@phelo: But i did not mean "copy and paste your question here without any reading of the thread" ... Wink

Dunno the details but IIRC all items have to be put in OIV slots and only get sorted into LBE gear after wards. So the total number and selection of possible items is restricted to fitting into OIV slots.

@ari:
1.As far as i am concerned, we could even add the small MPs to the pistols you mentioned and/or make the MPs less probable like having every pistol twice in the selection, but MPs just single.

2. Yeah, i come to same conclusion. Smile

3. As does the russian 106 (in plain 1.13 v4870). Razz

6. That's what i meant: Sandro either removed it at all or you can set it somewhere that "picking trait T does not set corresponding stat S to a fixed value". So you could pick e.g. a medic trait but leave medic skill at zero. (doesn't make much sense, tho, but would be possible).
I do not recall the datails right now, but i'm trying to find out ...
Edit: It's in Skills_Settings.INI -> SET_MINIMUM_ATTRIBUTES_FOR_TRAITS = FALSE (Not present in 4870)

Edit

[Updated on: Sun, 05 August 2012 00:19] by Moderator

Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308652] Sat, 04 August 2012 23:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pheloncab

 
Messages:270
Registered:August 2004
Location: So. Cal. or texas
Sam_Hotte
@phelo: But i did not mean "copy and paste your question here without any reading of the thread" ... Wink

Dunno the details but IIRC all items have to be put in OIV slots and only get sorted into LBE gear after wards. So the total number and selection of possible items is restricted to fitting into OIV slots.



Actually I did read the thread and several others, and hmm I guess I will have to gear up differently since OIV is so limited. back to mapediting and making caches.

Thanks.
Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308668] Sun, 05 August 2012 08:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
leyon

 
Messages:95
Registered:February 2011
3. So what would a good selection of LBEs be, in your opinion? I don't play with 4870 anymore hence I don't know these details - all the LBEs in 54xx+ are quite different from what you mentioned, it seems. Hunter - LBE - Pistol - Utility?

6. Ah, okay. This only affects newer revisions though. So, make separate xmls for 4870 and 54xx+?

7. Like the guns. Were those all the pistols available? Might as well make it rounded to 50 items if we can Razz

8. Giving one... weapon to Agi/Stealth? Might run into item repetition again, but what particular items did you have in mind?
Re: IMP Starting Items[message #308683] Sun, 05 August 2012 18:41 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2031
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
3. i came to Hunter - LBE - Hongkong Police - Blackhawk - Utility. Pistol has very high coolness and AFAIR i never encountered one in game (even with drop all) and never bought one myself, so i cannot really judge upon its usefulness.

6. Not necessary (for that), IMO. just don't distribute items with "I'll take this value because it comes with the trait anyway" but rather choose stat values as we see fit. Smile

7. There are just a very few (like 2 or so) more pistols in standard caliber in coolness 3. But if we'd advance to coolness 3, it would also include some more heavier MPs like Mac10 or PP93.
And BTW 42 is the answer to THE question so thats the best number to have ... Wink
I'm going to sort out the pistols and light MPs on coolness 3 and add them. There's no apparent reason that e.g. Beretta 93R has higher coolness than Skorpion. But then i'l also remove the 2 SMGs from coolness 2. Razz

8.Quote:
dart pistol[1]
[1] giving 1
It's about dart pistol

But on deeper thought this is too much; i even tend to dislike the additional, specialized gun you issue to the gun traits (Uzi, carbine etc.). Right now i'd prefer a "insane" compatible selection: everybody has just one handgun (pistol or light MP) and all SMGs etc. have to be looted.
Maybe just leave basic launcher for HW in (because in the beginning you will have no more than 2 shots with it) and the shotgun for hunter (because if you don't issue a shotgun on start none will hardly ever be used)
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