Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » Flugente's Magika Workshop » New feature: Covert operations
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Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #314191]
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Sat, 12 January 2013 23:28
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Flugente |
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Messages:3509
Registered:April 2009 Location: Germany |
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@Slax: If you are disguised, the basic thing that happens is that the enemy does not recognize you as an enemy. Apart from that, the AI is still unchanged. However, you still make noise when you move - which the AI naturally investigates. The weird running around around your spy is just that - the AI hears you moving, and investigates, but it fails to see you (well, it sees you, but if disguised, you are as interesting to it as a rock.).
I 'dampened' this on lower alert levels. As a result, they tend to stick to you if they are alerted.
Corpses are 'fresh' for about 20 turns.
johraelHow is it possible for them to come so close to you and not get revealed? Even at Spy level, it's 5 squares away from detection. On Expert level, you can move next to them, and they won't recognize you. Kinda the point of choosing expert. On level 1 of the trait they will always recognize you if you are too close and disguised as a soldier.
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Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #316520]
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Sun, 24 March 2013 13:30
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Faalagorn |
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Messages:154
Registered:February 2012 Location: Poland |
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First the bugs I spotted:
Throwing body away while your merc is unconscious removes the body from the sector altogether.
I also think that decapitating terrorists does not work now. It's either that, or zombies mod, or because I haven't talked with Carmen so far?
I can provide savegames to the bugs above.
Now here's a couple of improvements/suggestions to the feature I have
First a small tweak: I think the XML values for enemy clothing prices should be adjusted. $100/$120 for a clothing piece you can get from any soldier is a bit too much, especially at the price Jake buys them. I manually changed the price of each t-shirt and pants to $20, no matter if it's an enemy or a civilian clothing (but that could be adjusted even further, even with the possible question, should NPC buy Deidranna soldier clothing at all?)
Next another small XML tweak: Empty body should take two hands when held in primary hand, IMHO. It's such a big item, than it would be weird to have the possibility to carry two 80kg bodies at once
The next thing that could be really useful, would be making body sprites transparent, just like the living soldiers/mercs are when they are behind the wall - that way you could easily see where is the body of enemy after you killed them near the wall, allowing to easily take his body or clothes.
It would be also nice to have a global option in ctrl+. menu to strip all the clothing from the bodies. (and decapitate and gut options too when we're at it - I think the decapitate one was already discussed on some thread when someone mentioned hiding bodies. Option to mass remove bodies, or at least stockpile it on one spot would be nice indeed, too).
One addition to the clothing system I'd like, but might be hard to implement: instead of making clothing unusable after you shoot the enemy in torso/legs once is to make the clothing more degraded with each successful shot. The more shots your clothing item takes, the more likely are you detected. That would add a bit more realism IMO, avoid confusion when an enemy and it have no clothing (First I didn't knew why, later I've read what was the reason xD) and force your mercs to switch clothing from time to time.
Also, I think it's intentional, since the old T-shirts and the new one behave differently, you can't make rags out of t-shirts obtained from enemy soldiers. It would be cool on one hand, but on other hand it might disrupt the balance a bit, since there's LOTS of shirts lying around if you take clothes from all the soldiers from fight (I like that though xD)
And one last thing - maybe knives should break a little when decapitating and gutting, but not taking clothes away or dragging bodies?
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Staff Sergeant
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Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #316525]
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Sun, 24 March 2013 18:01
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Flugente |
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Messages:3509
Registered:April 2009 Location: Germany |
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FaalagornFirst the bugs I spotted:
Throwing body away while your merc is unconscious removes the body from the sector altogether. You shouldn't be able to throw anything while unconscious. That seems like a bug, but not specifically corpse-related.
FaalagornI also think that decapitating terrorists does not work now. It's either that, or zombies mod, or because I haven't talked with Carmen so far?
I can provide savegames to the bugs above. Save game is welcome, as long as its from the current trunk. Or, on this special occasion, from AFS 4.31. I will however not install any other mod.
FaalagornNow here's a couple of improvements/suggestions to the feature I have
First a small tweak: I think the XML values for enemy clothing prices should be adjusted. $100/$120 for a clothing piece you can get from any soldier is a bit too much, especially at the price Jake buys them. I manually changed the price of each t-shirt and pants to $20, no matter if it's an enemy or a civilian clothing (but that could be adjusted even further, even with the possible question, should NPC buy Deidranna soldier clothing at all?) I made uniforms cost more as an ill-advised move to make it harder to get them... which fails anyway, as getting an uniform is pretty easy. I'll propably change it so that NPCs won't sell/buy it anymore (we cannot easily forbid NPCs from buying them [we can only forbid buying for their entire inventory]). However, as one can change army uniforms, this will be a bit odd.
FaalagornNext another small XML tweak: Empty body should take two hands when held in primary hand, IMHO. It's such a big item, than it would be weird to have the possibility to carry two 80kg bodies at once True.
FaalagornThe next thing that could be really useful, would be making body sprites transparent, just like the living soldiers/mercs are when they are behind the wall - that way you could easily see where is the body of enemy after you killed them near the wall, allowing to easily take his body or clothes. Currently impossible.
FaalagornIt would be also nice to have a global option in ctrl+. menu to strip all the clothing from the bodies. (and decapitate and gut options too when we're at it - I think the decapitate one was already discussed on some thread when someone mentioned hiding bodies. Option to mass remove bodies, or at least stockpile it on one spot would be nice indeed, too). Strippin clothes was meant as an immersive way to get disguises. Not as a way to get money. So no.
FaalagornOne addition to the clothing system I'd like, but might be hard to implement: instead of making clothing unusable after you shoot the enemy in torso/legs once is to make the clothing more degraded with each successful shot. The more shots your clothing item takes, the more likely are you detected. That would add a bit more realism IMO, avoid confusion when an enemy and it have no clothing (First I didn't knew why, later I've read what was the reason xD) and force your mercs to switch clothing from time to time. Currently impossible. The clothes items cease to exist once you wear them - applying clothes simply changes your 'colours', and I set a marker that new clothes have been applied. Plus a marker if clothes have been damaged. Upon stripping, if we wear new clothes but do not have 'damaged' flag, I spawn a new clothes item. I will not add a sort of status to that.
FaalagornAlso, I think it's intentional, since the old T-shirts and the new one behave differently, you can't make rags out of t-shirts obtained from enemy soldiers. It would be cool on one hand, but on other hand it might disrupt the balance a bit, since there's LOTS of shirts lying around if you take clothes from all the soldiers from fight (I like that though xD) Nah, I just didnt care.
Faalagorn
And one last thing - maybe knives should break a little when decapitating and gutting, but not taking clothes away or dragging bodies? Sounds reasonable...
Update: As of r5952 and GameDir r1625, corpses are twohanded, NPC merchants dont accept admins shirts, knifes can get damaged on decapitating/gutting.
Decapitating terrorists works perfectly fine for me. Throwing items while unconscious works for other items too, but is only a very minor issue anyway.
[Updated on: Sun, 24 March 2013 19:51] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #317630]
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Mon, 22 April 2013 00:23
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Wil473 |
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Messages:2815
Registered:September 2004 Location: Canada |
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This was reported earlier today in the DL-1.13 thread
RodeleroAlso, in Omerta where Olga atacks you, there were messages about some missing xml for her.
I'm not sure if this is something I'm doing wrong, or if it is an unintended side effect of this feature (or perhaps it is intended and my scan through this thread missed it), but I'm finding that Kingpin's assassins always drop some clothes, with a message about their disguise failing, when approaching my mercs. Initially I thought it was the obsolete Clothes.XML in my earlier releases, but in testing what I though was the fix, a current Clothes.XML from GameDir_1652, I am still seeing clothes being dropped in both both UC-1.13, where Kingpin's assassins are used as triggers for gang violence, and DL-1.13, where the assassins are present from day one for the story.
I've already tried, toggling the INI option for ASSASSINS_DISGUISED, both TRUE and FALSE have the assassin dropping a pile of clothes when my mercs see the NPC.
Is there a way for King Pin's assassins to not drop their clothes to the map despite being spotted?
EDIT: additionally I found that Conrad is disguised right from the moment you hire him.
[Updated on: Mon, 22 April 2013 00:32] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #319826]
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Thu, 16 May 2013 12:24
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Taro_M |
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Messages:292
Registered:November 2008 |
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Well you could make spy's cover blow when he is X distance from other mercs. The better the spy the closer he can be to other mercs, but even awesome spy cant get too close or the enemies will "see" that he acts suspicious around the supposed enemy (other mercs).
As for the "chance" of blown cover you could make it like this: there could be hidden disguise meter that is drained when spy is close to the enemy and in sight range, it "recharges" when spy is out of sight of enemies. The better the spy the longer it takes for the "meter" to "drain". Its just an idea though.
[Updated on: Thu, 16 May 2013 12:28] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Master Sergeant
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Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #319884]
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Fri, 17 May 2013 00:28
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Flugente |
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Messages:3509
Registered:April 2009 Location: Germany |
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While having some sort of 'suspicion meter' would be pretty nice (perhaps with the enemy getting more and more hostile as you score higher), the problem is that the checks for suspicious behaviour happen whenever necessary... and when adding points, we do not know for what we already added points. So if standing next to a corpse would net you 5 points, and you'd be uncovered at 100 points, you'd get 5 points per turn if one enemy sees you an stands still. If he moves however, the check would be performed once for every new tile he visits - so if he just keeps moving, he'll uncover us in no time. And no, we cannot skip those checks in favour of 'once check per turn' - that would be obviously exploitable.
The only way around that would be to note every instance where we acquired suspicion points - which is mind-boggling, given the many ways one can raise suspicion.
Would be nice though. A soldier-specific meter would be even better (as in: different soldiers can be differently suspicious of us, depending on what they saw us do etc.). Though we'd then need 256 separate meters for every soldier... which'd come down do 256^2 suspicion meters.
Might be bit of a performance killer.
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Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #319951]
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Fri, 17 May 2013 17:42
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Moonfluk |
Messages:2
Registered:May 2013 |
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Hi folks. Very excited about trying out this feature! Does anyone know the "bNewSkillTrait" number for this skill? I want to give it to an existing merc, but the version of the Merc Profile Editor that I'm using doesn't include it as an option in the drop-down.
Also, after reading the comments on this post I'm still a bit confused about one point. The skill tooltip mentions a bonus to CTH and instakill for covert melee weapons. What entails a "covert melee weapon" exactly? Is that any melee weapon used by a covert operative still in a working disguise? Also, does this exclude throwing knives?
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Civilian
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Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #319955]
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Fri, 17 May 2013 18:17
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Moonfluk |
Messages:2
Registered:May 2013 |
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Thanks very much, Flugente. That's exactly what I needed. I've played JA2 pretty much every year since it was released, and I'm a longtime lurker of this forum. The massive amount of work you guys have done to expand on this game is GREATLY appreciated. Thanks again.
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Civilian
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Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #321949]
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Mon, 24 June 2013 23:20
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Gigagames |
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Messages:33
Registered:January 2013 |
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Hello,
i played JA 2 UC 1.13 , and i have make a Spy,
First i have other items than you (first screen)
second Every time i go in civi. clothes and see an enemy its saing
"Doint look like a Civi."
"PPSH-41 considered Military hardware"
I doint have a PPSH-41 in my inv why its say that ?
it this a bug ?
edit :
I Drop everything and Pick it up, now its work , wtf ? xD
Now i buyed a Crossbow , when i put it in the Weapon slot (NOT that in the hand , that from the inventar) but then its say that its military hardware (its showing NOT the right weapon name)
Then i put it in the BACKPACK , and its saying again that its only military ,(But whit a other weapon name) how can i transport a crossbow that its not "showed" and why its showing wrong names ?
[Updated on: Mon, 24 June 2013 23:33] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Private 1st Class
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Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #321951]
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Mon, 24 June 2013 23:42
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Gigagames |
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Messages:33
Registered:January 2013 |
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Wow the answer was fast,
first i have update my post
if its not realy good to understand write me an PN and i will write it to you in german because i see you german xDD
And here the ids :
4437 & 13
i play whit 4.45 20130518,
i patch now , and than i say if its fixed
edit : Ok this patch fix it , but again , how can i travel whit my crossbar so thats nobody nos that i have it ?because how can they see in my backpack ? have they backpack - X-ray - Items xD ?
[Updated on: Mon, 24 June 2013 23:53] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Private 1st Class
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Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #321966]
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Tue, 25 June 2013 10:09
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Gigagames |
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Messages:33
Registered:January 2013 |
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my Pistole have nothing whit covert only reliability.
The gun name :
Walther PPK
This gun is hided , when i equip it in my hand its Hided too ? bud a gun in my backpack not ? wtf ?
edit :
Lol
now i have pick up a gun (this gun was droppet by a soldire)
and what say it ? the gun is too "good" for a soldire , but i became it from a soldire what the ?
gun name : M77B1 Tactical stock..
and can you plss add that when a gun is in the backpack the Soldirs doint see this gun ?
and when a soldire see that you a bad gay that you DOINT lose you clothes , that the icon thats saying "undercover" was crossed out ? and when you noobody see its again there ?
[Updated on: Tue, 25 June 2013 11:19] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Private 1st Class
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Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #322038]
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Wed, 26 June 2013 02:37
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Gigagames |
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Messages:33
Registered:January 2013 |
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If one wants to be hidden, you have to compromise and not raise suspicion.
how ?
because every time i have a non good gun by me (backpack) and move normal the enemys see that i was bad ..?
And when i have a "good" gun equipt (in my hand) and im Civi its ok xD ? but when i have a gun in my backpack its not ok xD ???
edit : Its not about this "addon" but , i have played whit the 3 of difficulty and i have make and i go to callisto airport , yea im now finisch whit this airport and have so mutch loot 2 sides only loot from the enemys there was there !! ca 30 and more enemeys ... is this normal ?
[Updated on: Wed, 26 June 2013 05:42] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Private 1st Class
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