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Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #332701]
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Fri, 16 May 2014 20:18
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veedotja2 |
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Messages:86
Registered:April 2012 Location: New York |
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Finally got a chance to play with covert.
Took a while to figure out I needed to apply shirt AND pants. There is a uniform for sale so I though that was what I needed at first. Your way is better because you actually match your appearance so the sprite colors match the opposition.
Ctrl + . didn't give an option to check disguise until I was ACTUALLY disguised correctly, then I could test it. The test feature is great, by the way, so there's no confusion as to whether I'm doing it right. I noticed you can have camo, in addition to guns, if you are disguised as a soldier. Intentional?
Garrotte is amazing, but it's good to have a follow up if it fails.
Going to realtime was a hassle while doing covert in my Urban Chaos game (old exe) but I noticed with later .exe you only have to press [D] to enter turn based, and not Ctrl+Alt+Shift+T, which is a nightmare and easy to hit wrong. Real convenient and makes covert play a lot nicer.
Played many sectors, and had no bugs. It's a really powerful trait with 2 levels (Spy). Have to hold back. I like to run around enemies uncovering their roles and using another merc to snipe and assault them. It will be necessary to have enemy spies as well to balance out this really powerful trait.
Good work as always, Flugente.
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Corporal 1st Class
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Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #332947]
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Wed, 21 May 2014 21:15
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Flugente |
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Messages:3509
Registered:April 2009 Location: Germany |
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Take a look at the settings in Skills_Settings.ini. Specifically, COVERT_ELITES_DETECT_NEXTTILE allows Elites to uncover you if you are close, even if your disguise is good.
The 'clothes fall off' is the easiest way of drastically indicating that you've been uncovered, and also gives you the means the reapply a disguise again. It is also a nod to Commandos
Due to code reasons, suspicion is boolean. That means that enemies either uncover you instantly or not. Changing that to get, say, a 'suspicion meter' would require a major rework of a lot of code. This is also the reason that 'chance' has no role in uncovering.
You are also only uncovered if you are seen doing something suspicious. If nobody sees you shooting, they can't know you did it.
Everybody can disguise as a civilian. Mercs with the trait can also disguise as soldiers.
With no trait, you will be uncovered if closer to the enemy than COVERT_CLOSE_DETECTION_RANGE tiles.
With lvl1 trait, you will be uncovered in soldier disguise if closer to the enemy than COVERT_CLOSE_DETECTION_RANGE tiles. In civilian diguise you get as close as you like.
With lvl2 trait, you can get as close as you like, both as a civilian and a soldier.
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Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #334524]
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Thu, 24 July 2014 13:15
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Flugente |
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Messages:3509
Registered:April 2009 Location: Germany |
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You can use a disguise as often as you want. To put it on, drag shirt and pants on your merc's silhouette in your inventory. If no hostile sees you doing this, you will get the 'covert' property, indicated by the 'hat' icon.
You can get a soldier's uniform by clicking on a corpse with a knife equipped, this will bring up a small menu where you can select what you want to do. You can also select to pick up a corpse here, one hand must be free. There is no animation for dragging corpses, thus a corpse is simply a very heavy item.
Note that you will not get a shirt/pants if the body part that it is worn on has been damaged - it wouldn't make sense to disguise in a bloody uniform, would it?
When you press [Ctrl] + [.], one of the options you get is to get out of an uniform again. First click simply removes the 'covert' property (in case you simply want to recolour your mercs but not have them lose their clothes whenever an enemy sees them), the second time the clothes are put into your inventory.
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Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #335756]
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Sat, 13 September 2014 16:27
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Flugente |
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Messages:3509
Registered:April 2009 Location: Germany |
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Most critique towards this trait comes from the fact that it is very easy to exploit. While direct attacks will get you uncovered, there are many ways to damage the enemy indirectly, like throwing out mustard gas grenades next to the enemy. For internal code reasons, uncovering a spy at that point would require disproportionate effort.
Basically, the problem is that in these cases, the animation is the only clue that a spy is doing a suspicious action - but he will only be uncovered if a enemy soldier does a sight check on him in that very moment. We shouldn't add more of these checks, because sightline checks are very expensive in game time terms.
As of r7514, I've added a workaround: whenever a spy performs a suspicious animation (or certain non-animated actions, like igniting a mustard gas grenade in his inventory), I set up a small combined timer - a few seconds and an AP counter. If an enemy tests the spy before either of these run out, he successfully uncovers the spy.
As a result, most checks now work the way they are intended. You can still do everything as a spy, but now the chance to be uncovered is much higher if people see you doing it.
A second change is that there is a new Skills_Settings.ini setting: If your spy is closer than COVERT_ELITES_UNCOVER_RADIUS tiles to an enemy, he will be uncovered if
- the enemy is an elite and the spy is disguised as an admin or regular troop or
- the enemy is an officers and your spy is disguised as an admin, regular troop or elite. Note that civilian disguises do not fall under this!
The justification is that troops higher in the hierarchy would know the platoon their with, and would point out if they saw someone they did not know pretend to be one of them. Officers are really dangerous know. Sorta like the old commandos game, where your spy had to avoid the SS even if disguised. If you don't like this change, simply set COVERT_ELITES_UNCOVER_RADIUS to 0.
As a result of these two changes, this trait should feel less overpowered now. Identifying potential threats is now very reasonable to do while infiltrating, and soldier disguises now have a real drawback compared to civilian disguises.
TL;DR: Spy now less exploity. Me happy! :drool:
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Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #335776]
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Sun, 14 September 2014 19:38
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grim |
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Messages:344
Registered:July 2006 Location: France |
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Flugente
You will be discovered if:
- as civilian:
- you are in a restricted sector, like Orta. Civs will be shot on sight here.
I had a strange experience lately concerning this.
Game version is 7492. (Enemy Generals feature active, dunno if it's important)
I land in omerta with my spy IMP, throw everything corrupting a civ disguise, put on the civ clothes, and try to test my disguise with the option from the menu obtained by 'ctrl + .'.
In return, i get the message : ' isn't supposed to be here!'
As soon as i meet any enemy, my disguise falls and i have the same message.
As a civ (disguised), what are the restricted zones and sectors? Is Omerta one of them? Can something or someone (generals?) impact on the restricted zones?
By the way, i really love that feature, thanks for implementing it and for the latest improvements to make it even more balanced.
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Master Sergeant
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Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #337481]
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Sun, 02 November 2014 14:24
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Tascani |
Messages:2
Registered:June 2014 |
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I've been coming back to JA2 and it is amazing what modders can do - and do this game.
Thank you for your amazing work.
Being a noob modder I had a lot of questions but could solve most of them by reading and some trial and error.
I'm a bit stuck now though.
Playing with Strohmanns latest stable Release (7435) + AR and then copied over the files from latest unstable release. Everything works fine and my question should be true for all versions anyway:
Where can I find civilian clothes?
I got Mouse but she carries non and has no kit that has them. BR is in Estoni (due to AR) and I could either cheat or kill some random civilian to get the clothes.
Are there any available clothes (not army uniforms, civilian) in San Mona/Omerta/Drassen?
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Civilian
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Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #337491]
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Sun, 02 November 2014 19:09
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Tascani |
Messages:2
Registered:June 2014 |
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Dear Flugente,
thank you for your answer.
I think the trick to combine a red shirt (regular) and a black pants (elite) to have civilian clothes is pretty convenient. Thank you, that is a really good way.
For testing purposes I disguised Mouse as a soldier, sneaked into Cambria to buy clothes ... which seems a bit off - but works. ^^
Thank you for this great feature and your support.
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Civilian
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