At some point, one of sevenfm's code additions was added: If a merc was uncovered but still wore his diguise (so if COVERT_STRIPIFUNCOVERED was FALSE [which is the default value]), they were supposed to re-disguise after 3 turns. Except that that 3-turn timer isn't implemented ins tock, so the merc re-disguises asap.
As that seems rather silly (and messes with a core mechanic of the new intel-gathering assignment), COVERT_STRIPIFUNCOVERED is now always TRUE (and can no longer be changed in the ini) as of r8573.
[Updated on: Thu, 14 June 2018 21:21]
I know now that it could never work between us, as much as we wanted to, it could never be! Not because you're a rabbit, but because you're black.
If you want, you can donate to me. This will not affect how and what I code, and I will not code specific features in return. I will be thankful though.
Hello!
Is it possible for a player to fine-tune the following things (with help of special text files editing):
1 - remove - camo forbids civ-disguise
2 - remove - disappearing by damage clothes / make clothes much more damage-resistant / make clothes ignore any damage
3 - adjust levels - how enemy gets suspicious about just gazing at spies / remove - enemy gets suspicious by just gazing
4 - remove - lose disguise when seen near fresh fallen
Did you ever think about extending CovertOps tag onto MOLLE pouches?
That means e.g. we have 2 knife MOLLE pouches. One of common design, another of CovertOps design. If we attach the second variant it will make your knife hidden in spite of the MOLLE harness doesn't have CovertOps tag.
I also think about improved pocket system:
Idea is to make any pocket to be able to hold items with different IDs simultaneously!
-you take an item in inventory
-if a pocket can take this item, but has an item with another ID, it changes view to empty - but shows quantity of free spaces taking into account busy space from the mentioned above item.
-after you lay the item into this pocket it becomes hidden. But the fact the pocket has it still is displayed with "*"(similar to green one of LBEs which have something inside). May be of any color not used yet.
Right-Clicking shows every item which now can be of different IDs unlike earlier!
This way we could have 3 clips of 3 "colors" in one 3x(AR)mag pocket! And even totally different items in one pocket!
Could you estimate how hard would it be to implement (if possible) these two features?
1. Nope.
2. Nope.
3. Nope.
4. Yes, set COVERT_CLOSE_DETECTION_RANGE_SOLDIER_CORPSE in Skills_Settings.ini to 0.
Note that sevenfm has done quite extensive changes to the covert mechanics in his exes, 1.-3. might be possible there.
As to the MOLLE pouches... I don't see the need. I mean, just add the covert tag to the carrier and be done with it.
As to your pocket system idea... first of all, if the slot no longer shows what is inside and one has to right-click on everything, that sounds like a tedious nightmare to use.
In any case, the code changes required are absolutely hideous, as it effectively requires recoding huge parts of inventory code. Nope nope nope.
I know now that it could never work between us, as much as we wanted to, it could never be! Not because you're a rabbit, but because you're black.
If you want, you can donate to me. This will not affect how and what I code, and I will not code specific features in return. I will be thankful though.
Thank you for answers!
Flugente wrote on Wed, 23 January 2019 21:34
4. Yes, set COVERT_CLOSE_DETECTION_RANGE_SOLDIER_CORPSE in Skills_Settings.ini to 0.
Negative! I already have tried it. It doesn't help. It reduces distance to minimum but does not remove it completely. If you step by "over a corpse" your cover got blown!
Flugente wrote on Wed, 23 January 2019 21:34
Note that sevenfm has done quite extensive changes to the covert mechanics in his exes, 1.-3. might be possible there.
@ sevenfm please comment this if you see? It is important & presently topical for me!
Flugente wrote on Wed, 23 January 2019 21:34
As to the MOLLE pouches... I don't see the need. I mean, just add the covert tag to the carrier and be done with it.
I did not go into the nitty-gritty and you might not apprehend the heart of the matter. Imagine a modder don't dig himself under millions of items. Vice-versa he seeks to have limited stock of items. And want'em set up perfectly. He doesn't believe most LBEs designed for CovertOps can have ALL pockets CovertOps. Moreover why must be special LBEs for CovertOps. Why not to use common LBEs which have a pair of those needed pockets. So the modder has to do most LBEs MOLLE and needs the feature I asked about.
silversurfer wrote on Wed, 23 January 2019 22:44
1. Why not just remove the camo if you want to be covert? A camouflaged civilian doesn't make sense and has to raise suspicion.
Problem is camo you apply on body (camokits) are ignored by disguise check and camo on clothes (feel the difference against camouniform!?) are fanatically pinpointed! While should be all the other way round.
But ideally camo (all-together camo) should go as one suspicion raise factor for civs, not as instant disguise crack open reason! And it should start to affect not at 1% camo!!! (~20-30%). And increase sync with camo increase.
Messages:69
Registered:June 2007 Location: Land of New Rising Sun
edit-
Did not realize just standing in stealth mode would blow your cover, even disguised as soldier. No sneaking (stealth mode) for disguised civilians or soldiers !
Messages:213
Registered:February 2005 Location: USA
Flugente wrote on Sat, 12 January 2013 21:28
On Expert level, you can move next to them, and they won't recognize you. Kinda the point of choosing expert. On level 1 of the trait they will always recognize you if you are too close and disguised as a soldier.
The elite soldiers always see through Elroy's soldier disguise when they're within roughly 10 squares. Even the red shirts frequently see through his soldier disguise. Is that by design? Is my disguise bad?
In 1.13.8675, there's no way I can play Elroy like the character in the YouTube video, let alone play Mouse that way. Please don't get me wrong. I really like the feature, but I'm still trying to figure out how to make it viable on Expert difficulty.
Messages:213
Registered:February 2005 Location: USA
Thanks, and thanks for all the great vids Sevenfm!
In the current build, 8675, is it normal for the red shirts and elites to see through Elroy's soldier disguise? Is there any way to make Elroy's soldier disguise less transparent? (I have already tested the disguise and the game says it looks ok.)
Messages:384
Registered:December 2017 Location: here
fightcancer wrote on Thu, 06 June 2019 19:38
...
In the current build, 8675, is it normal for the red shirts and elites to see through Elroy's soldier disguise? Is there any way to make Elroy's soldier disguise less transparent? (I have already tested the disguise and the game says it looks ok.)
Reason for blown up disguise should be visible in ingame messages,
in case they scrolled away/faded out too fast go to strategic map where you can scroll the messages up&down.
Other common resaons for blown up disguise are e.g. too close to corpse or a merc (dont know if militia also triggers it but would guess it does),
weapon pointed at any member of faction, even if target is 144 tiles away
(therefore never raise a spies weapon if you are not really forced to do, and lower it instantly / put back in covert container),
allegedly "suspicious" actions like picking up an item, even if of non military nature
(i.e. dont take the canteen, it will kill you;).
Last not least, for some inexplicable reason the game considers a town sector under attack
as not valid to contribute to defenders progress calculation,
and if that drops the threshold for the spies equipments max coolness,
the disguise that was ok according to "check disguise" option may not be ok anymore.
(in latter case a "check disguise" during battle should provide correct feedback)
I'm not entirely sure why I made backpacks on civilians automatically suspicious, but I did. But now I have an idea, so I'm altering the deal (in r8707 &GameDir r2492).
Since the vanillla gold clubs were useless, I'm finally giving them a use as a heavy backpack with limited capacity... but the thing is unique in that it has the covert property, so spies disguised as civilians can smuggle guns in there. Then in combat they can use the zipper to access the gun.
Don't mind me sir, I'm just a gal on a golf tour. What? You say this isn't a gold course, but a war zone? Mon dieu! Not to worry, I'm off to that convenient roof overlooking your positions.
[Updated on: Wed, 27 November 2019 23:35]
I know now that it could never work between us, as much as we wanted to, it could never be! Not because you're a rabbit, but because you're black.
If you want, you can donate to me. This will not affect how and what I code, and I will not code specific features in return. I will be thankful though.
I have some suggestions about the "Covert" (ItemFlag 16384) flag:
In the "small, easily concealed weapons family" I would add the P239 SAS pistol (#1064), if only because its description says so... There are others, but since its description suggest to the player this is a concealable weapon, IMHO it needs to have that tag.
Some other items definitely need to have the "Covert" tag: Crowbar (#64), Exacto Knife (#301), Steak Knife (#598), Wrench (#1202). Those are all civilian tools and should never be suspicious if carried in a backpack.
The MERC umbrella is the perfect covert 007 spy gadget. I used the icon to make me a "sword cane umbrella" for a spy to use. Needs the "Covert" tag too. (Funnily enough, that was enough to allow me to openly carry it, despite it being categorized as a knife, but it's okay since that's exactly how it should be.)
Unlike wrenches and Exacto knives, the ballistic shieldsshould be military material and highly suspicious. Right now you can carry them around with nobody noticing.
On a related topic, we need some civilian, not suspicious LBE for the spy to use, giving him more space for non-weapon stuff than the golf bag. Your spy does need some carrying capacity, especially if he has to eat and drink. Since not only the army uses backpacks, I created me a small leisure backpack using the USMC Backpack (#1705) icon (2/220). Now ideally we should be able to carry both the civilian backpack and the golf bag at the same time, like the TIMS ensemble. Note I didn't yet try to find out how comes you can wear both the TIMS backpack and the TIMS combat pack at the same time yet, but that would be the perfect thing for that "infiltrated spy taking on Deidranna all on his/herself" game... Given you wouldn't send 32 spies out, the 1-2 agents would need to carry everything themselves, weapons, ammunition, life support (meds/food), quest items, etc.
Last, I see why this is, but it's still annoying you need 2 steps to stop being in "covert" status and be ready again to go into disguise (End disguise, then remove clothes). Since there is still place in that menu panel, would it be possible to add a combined "End disguise and strip" command?
Hi guys, I have a problem with covert operations, maybe you can help me out there.
I have a merc with second level spying trait and I am trying to infiltrate Alma base (H13).
I am disguised as elite soldier (wearing both black pants and shirt), testing my disguise says it seems okay.
However, upon entering the sector, game automatically "switches" to turn mode after a while (this happens somewhere between several seconds to minute).
When I press end turn, game continues in real-time mode like nothing happened, but then in a few seconds alarm is obviously turned on, because there's an explosion and the rocket rifle gets blown up.
All this happens without any enemy seeing me (tested it by cheating: enemies are far far away). I can literally just keep standing at the spot where I arrived to the sector, and after a while the game switches to turn mode and then enemy blows the thing.
I tested it with another sector (going down to Alma Prison I13), and the same happens (only this time I can see gas released on roofs).
Can anybody tell me what's going on here?
I tried looking through the game code, but couldn't find anything helpful. Is there a way to display enemy "alert level" somehow, so I can check and at least be sure about it? There was a config that allowed it a long time ago, but I cannot find the source now and I am sure it was already removed from game, so that wouldn't probably help either way. Also, I double-checked my vest and pants, they are not "damaged" or from blood. Just in case I used cheats, moved both items one item forward and backward, so I should have 100% new, unspoiled elite soldier clothes. Testing the disguise says it seems okay why only "seems"? Are there any hidden conditions, and if so, what are those (and where in game code)?
The main places to check would be SeemsLegit() and RecognizeAsCombatant() in Soldier Control.cpp
Also the game may raise alert for other reason, not because of spy actions, check DecideAction.cpp and other AI/NPC code.
The main places to check would be SeemsLegit() and RecognizeAsCombatant() in Soldier Control.cpp
Also the game may raise alert for other reason, not because of spy actions, check DecideAction.cpp and other AI/NPC code.
Thank you! The code is extremely long, though. Is there any way to display the alert level in-game?
Is there any "informed guess" you could give me, as to what might be the problem?
From top of your head, what are the reasons that could cause the alert to be raised, if I am alone in the sector, just with my spy merc?
Thank you! The code is extremely long, though. Is there any way to display the alert level in-game?
Apart from using debug mode, you can try to enable tooltips.
Maybe SOLDIER_TOOLTIP_DEBUG_AI will show alert level, I don't know.
Quote:
Is there any "informed guess" you could give me, as to what might be the problem?
From top of your head, what are the reasons that could cause the alert to be raised, if I am alone in the sector, just with my spy merc?
I have no idea, sorry. As you said, the code is extremely long and complex.
*Copypasting from Discord; No harm or disrespect intended*
Can someone give me an explanation of how covert vehicles work? I am playing 1.13 WF 6.07 and upon hiring Hamous I managed to get his truck past several roadblocks w/o any problems. But now, I'm trying to do the same with a Jeep I've found on a very first day at Omerta A10 and it just doesn't work. My guy dressed as a civ trying to get past another roadblock gets ambushed and discovered everytime.
And what about covert gear? What about camera/hunter vest/waterflask/food? They do not have covert tag, yet I'm wondering why's that? Is it intentional gameplay-wise, or just an oversight/lack of time to fiddle with all those tags? Same goes for other junk.
I play Vengeance Reloaded for the first time and I love it. Great work from you. Thanks for giving us this one.
Now I have a few questions regarding Covert Ops. I read through all the related topic here and watched a few videos. But I still can't figure out how exactly it works.
I recruited Hustler from MERC as she has the Spy trait.
Before reading all of this, I thought she simply needs to wear the item "field uniform" in the torso armor slot. But this of course had no effect. That made me wondering what the purpose of this very piece of clothing actually is? Just the camo effect when wearing it instead of armor? Or is it still somehow related to the covert ops thing?
After reading that you can retrieve clothes from dead soldiers, I wiped out a small enemy squad in the countryside and used my knife on all of them. Now I have 7 pieces of "Army trousers". But I don't know how to use them. I can't neither wear them in the leg armor slot, nor can I apply them directly to the Merc like with a camo kit or such.
What do I miss here?
And furthermore, what is the effect of CTRL + [.]? Here is an option called disguise. How does this work?
Messages:2476
Registered:October 2005 Location: Australia
I haven't personally played with this feature, so if you don't get anyone else responding I'd suggest reading more of this thread.
The Camouflaged 'Field Uniform' in Vengeance is an armor type item, one I thought got removed at least from Vengeance some years ago, at least from Bobby Rays and other merchants, but perhaps it may be dropped by some enemies if it's in their detailed inventory. It's not the item you'll need for covert ops though.
I believe you can disguise yourself as either a civilian or enemy soldier dependent on your disguise.
I play Vengeance Reloaded for the first time and I love it. Great work from you. Thanks for giving us this one.
Now I have a few questions regarding Covert Ops. I read through all the related topic here and watched a few videos. But I still can't figure out how exactly it works.
I recruited Hustler from MERC as she has the Spy trait.
Before reading all of this, I thought she simply needs to wear the item "field uniform" in the torso armor slot. But this of course had no effect. That made me wondering what the purpose of this very piece of clothing actually is? Just the camo effect when wearing it instead of armor? Or is it still somehow related to the covert ops thing?
After reading that you can retrieve clothes from dead soldiers, I wiped out a small enemy squad in the countryside and used my knife on all of them. Now I have 7 pieces of "Army trousers". But I don't know how to use them. I can't neither wear them in the leg armor slot, nor can I apply them directly to the Merc like with a camo kit or such.
What do I miss here?
And furthermore, what is the effect of CTRL + [.]? Here is an option called disguise. How does this work?
drag trousers and t shirt to your merc in inventory like drinking a water
it should say merc disguised as soldier.
if you do not have enemy's t shirt then try head shot them. try to get elite soldier's black shirt and trousers so you can have better equipment on your spy.
you could disguise as civilian but in that case you will not be able to carry a lot of items
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