Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » Flugente's Magika Workshop » New feature: Covert operations
Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #313661] Fri, 28 December 2012 16:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3416
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
That seems perfectly reasonable - so yes. As of r5750,
  • EPCs (like John&Mary) will be treated as civilians when you recruit them. Which seems fair, as they are civilians.
  • When you get uncovered, the messages will now inform you which item caused this, if it was an item.
  • maximum allowed coolness is now
    rounded up(current progress/10) + modifier
    

    modifier is 1 for admins, 2 for redshirts and 3 for elites. So disguising as an elite allows better gear, and admin is harder.


Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #313663] Fri, 28 December 2012 16:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Elvis_A

 
Messages:275
Registered:December 2012
Location: exUSSR
Flugente
That seems perfectly reasonable - so yes. As of r5750,
  • EPCs (like John&Mary) will be treated as civilians when you recruit them. Which seems fair, as they are civilians.
  • When you get uncovered, the messages will now inform you which item caused this, if it was an item.
  • maximum allowed coolness is now
    rounded up(current progress/10) + modifier
    

    modifier is 1 for admins, 2 for redshirts and 3 for elites. So disguising as an elite allows better gear, and admin is harder.



Wow! That is great! That is exactly what I would love to see!
This further modification raises few more questions and /or requests:
1) Is it possible now to rescue Dynamo/Shank from Tixa without cleaning whole prison sector?
2)Will Slay (terrorist) get civilian status as well?
3) As far as I remember in original JA 2 (UB?) there was minor trait ("Thief") that was not included to the game, is it possible to include this skill now? So it will increase chances to stole items from enemy + maybe some bonus to stealth or lockpicking.
Great work, Flugente, thank you very much.
Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #313665] Fri, 28 December 2012 17:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3416
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
1) Dynamo and Shank are known to be prisoners there. They cannot simply walk out, they will be attacked once seen. You'd have to free them and kill any guards that might see them on their way out, if you dont plan to kill the entire garrison.
2) He already does. Like other RPCs that get this special status, he will lose it once he gets uncovered, and cant reagin it.
3) Well, stealth and lockpicking already exist, and afaik Martial Artist gives a bonus to stealing, so I see no need for that.


Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #313668] Fri, 28 December 2012 19:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Elvis_A

 
Messages:275
Registered:December 2012
Location: exUSSR
Flugente
1) Dynamo and Shank are known to be prisoners there. They cannot simply walk out, they will be attacked once seen. You'd have to free them and kill any guards that might see them on their way out, if you dont plan to kill the entire garrison.
2) He already does. Like other RPCs that get this special status, he will lose it once he gets uncovered, and cant reagin it.
3) Well, stealth and lockpicking already exist, and afaik Martial Artist gives a bonus to stealing, so I see no need for that.


Is there possibility to increase number of skills(traits) that can be taken? For IMPs for example?

I successfully escorted John and Mary, although they both took 1-2 shots, so I will continue covert missions cause they awesome Wink

I noticed that with new exe (5749) when you try to steal enemy's weapon from hands - the game goes to turn base mode, and if you managed to steal weapon - soldiers try to pick it up from ground if it goes there. Also I noticed that they started running back and forth much more when your spy around.
One thing is annoying - when your merc spots enemy - it keeps talking cause 5-10 enemies go back and fro near and nearly every 2-3 seconds you hear same thing.

There is still bug when your spy uncovered - t-shirt dissapears. Right now after escorting old couple to airport, my militia uncovered my spy. Is it bug or feature? and yes, t-shirt is gone. Do you want me to attach savegame?
Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #313671] Fri, 28 December 2012 20:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3416
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
You can change
MAX_NUMBER_OF_TRAITS = 3

; Number of Major Trait slots allowed for player mercs. 
; Values from 2 to 20 are allowed.
NUMBER_OF_MAJOR_TRAITS_ALLOWED = 2

in Skills_Settings.ini.

Well, a spy does not simply steal weapons in the open Smile. It should even uncover the spy, but that is not easily doable code-wise... atm one should be uncovered if seen stealing.

Thing is... when your spy is around, they do notice that something is off... they tend to keep around you, especially on higher alert levels.

I have set down the frequency of talking, might take it further, have to see.

I've never seen militia uncover spies, so I'll take your savegame gladly Smile


Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #313672] Fri, 28 December 2012 20:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Elvis_A

 
Messages:275
Registered:December 2012
Location: exUSSR
Flugente
You can change
MAX_NUMBER_OF_TRAITS = 3

; Number of Major Trait slots allowed for player mercs. 
; Values from 2 to 20 are allowed.
NUMBER_OF_MAJOR_TRAITS_ALLOWED = 2

in Skills_Settings.ini.

Well, a spy does not simply steal weapons in the open Smile. It should even uncover the spy, but that is not easily doable code-wise... atm one should be uncovered if seen stealing.

Thing is... when your spy is around, they do notice that something is off... they tend to keep around you, especially on higher alert levels.

I have set down the frequency of talking, might take it further, have to see.

I've never seen militia uncover spies, so I'll take your savegame gladly Smile



Flugente, please fix the bug with t-shirt disappearances.

Unfortunately i lost elite army t-shirt due to bug, and saved it after due to other alt-tabbing bug(i accidentally press S which turned to alt+S) =)
anyway here is savegame and screenshot when i tried to disguise as civilian and totally forget to take out armor, but still as proof.
p.s. militia running like crazy around me - I minimized the game window but I hear the steps while writing this =)

p.s. i do not see file manager to attach save so i am going to upload somewhere else
http://rghost.ru/42584405

http://s017.radikal.ru/i418/1212/fe/8f1bceb3cbee.jpg


thanky for hint about traits - i did not know that

[Updated on: Fri, 28 December 2012 20:57] by Moderator

Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #313674] Sat, 29 December 2012 01:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3416
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Hmm. Can you upload somewhere where I dont have to install obscure downloaders first? nvm. stupid links

[Updated on: Sat, 29 December 2012 01:43] by Moderator



Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #313677] Sat, 29 December 2012 04:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3416
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
@E1vS: r5751 fixes your bugs. The problem with the T-shirt was that your character had, at one time, been hit in the torso, thus the game found his vest to be damaged, even if a new one was worn. If you now apply a new vest, it will be worn correctly.

Also, the militia should now not uncover you while its friendly.


Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #313683] Sat, 29 December 2012 15:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Elvis_A

 
Messages:275
Registered:December 2012
Location: exUSSR
Flugente
@E1vS: r5751 fixes your bugs. The problem with the T-shirt was that your character had, at one time, been hit in the torso, thus the game found his vest to be damaged, even if a new one was worn. If you now apply a new vest, it will be worn correctly.

Also, the militia should now not uncover you while its friendly.



Good job! I hope you found link for "savegame"

T-shirt was really new, I killed enemy with knife by cutting his neck (did not touch torso)
Any ideas when I could test these fixes?
Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #313684] Sat, 29 December 2012 16:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3416
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Well, use the new exe. DepressivesBrot frequently compiles new exes and puts them for download in his thread.


Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #313687] Sat, 29 December 2012 17:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Elvis_A

 
Messages:275
Registered:December 2012
Location: exUSSR
Flugente
Well, use the new exe. DepressivesBrot frequently compiles new exes and puts them for download in his thread.


Yes, I check skydrive quite often.

You mentioned that Deidrana can send spies, is it working now? it would really nice if you make special interrogation for spies - they will give more detailed info about Deidrana's army, maybe location of Orta?

[Updated on: Sat, 29 December 2012 17:24] by Moderator

Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #313693] Sat, 29 December 2012 19:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3416
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
While writing a long, elaborate answer why enemy spies will never work as good as Kingpin's assassins, I got an idea... this might take a while though.


Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #313700] Sun, 30 December 2012 00:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Elvis_A

 
Messages:275
Registered:December 2012
Location: exUSSR
Flugente
While writing a long, elaborate answer why enemy spies will never work as good as Kingpin's assassins, I got an idea... this might take a while though.


ok, good luck with implementation of idea.

I never stole money from kingpin, so I have no idea about hitmans AI.

P.S. when Deidrana starts sending spies?

[Updated on: Sun, 30 December 2012 00:40] by Moderator

Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #313701] Sun, 30 December 2012 00:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3416
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
E1vS
P.S. when Deidrana starts sending spies?


As this is not implemented yet, never.


Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #313705] Sun, 30 December 2012 17:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2020
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
Flugente
That seems perfectly reasonable - so yes. As of r5750,
[list]
[*] EPCs (like John&Mary) will be treated as civilians when you recruit them. Which seems fair, as they are civilians.


But why should they require you to escort them at all as they can travel the countryside and to the airport without being bothered at all?
That's not very logical in my book ...
At least there should be some probability that they lose their disguise when to close to enemy or something.

YMMV.
Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #313707] Sun, 30 December 2012 17:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lockie

 
Messages:3929
Registered:February 2006
Location: Scotland
Quote:
But why should they require you to escort them at all as they can travel the countryside and to the airport without being bothered at all?


Cause in any third world country the chances of John and Mary surviving without being robbed and raped are pretty slim , I'd have thought . Smile


Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #313710] Sun, 30 December 2012 17:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2020
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
lockie
Quote:
But why should they require you to escort them at all as they can travel the countryside and to the airport without being bothered at all?


Cause in any third world country the chances of John and Mary surviving without being robbed and raped are pretty slim , I'd have thought . Smile


Exactly. That's why they should be regarded "hostile" in a way until Flug implemented another enemy faction like "poor inhabitants who (try to) rob and rape" any rich looking civilian including the Kulbas and player's spies disguised as civilians. Razz

Seriously, as the queen's army is the one bothering everybody in the game, they should also threaten some US citizens promising some fat bribes or ransom or something.
Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #313712] Sun, 30 December 2012 20:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3416
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Sam_Hotte
Seriously, as the queen's army is the one bothering everybody in the game, they should also threaten some US citizens promising some fat bribes or ransom or something.


Well, as far as the game goes, there is no such thing as 'a bit hostile'. Either the army attacks and kills them, or it ignores them.


Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #313715] Sun, 30 December 2012 21:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3807
Registered:July 2009
Official government agents bothering US citizens is a pretty sure way to provoke 'visits' by all kinds of people a third rate dictator doesn't want in her country. On the other hand leaving your holiday resort while there's actual shooting going on in northern Arulco isn't the healthiest idea either.


Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #313717] Sun, 30 December 2012 21:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3416
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
E1vS
Flugente
While writing a long, elaborate answer why enemy spies will never work as good as Kingpin's assassins, I got an idea... this might take a while though.


ok, good luck with implementation of idea.

I never stole money from kingpin, so I have no idea about hitmans AI.

P.S. when Deidrana starts sending spies?


http://www.bears-pit.com/board/ubbthreads.php/topics/313711.html#Post313711 Smile


Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #313730] Mon, 31 December 2012 11:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Elvis_A

 
Messages:275
Registered:December 2012
Location: exUSSR
Flugente


http://www.bears-pit.com/board/ubbthreads.php/topics/313711.html#Post313711 Smile


wow. good. i hope we will get new exe soon.
on the screenshot enemy spy appeared as a civilian (civ turn) maybe you should make it enemy turn?
Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #313735] Mon, 31 December 2012 14:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3416
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
For internal code reasons, enemy spies have to be on the civilian team. If they were on the enemy team, the game would always announce an ongoing battle, thus the player would always know when there's a spy around.


Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #313742] Mon, 31 December 2012 17:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2020
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
DepressivesBrot
Official government agents bothering US citizens is a pretty sure way to provoke 'visits' by all kinds of people a third rate dictator doesn't want in her country. On the other hand leaving your holiday resort while there's actual shooting going on in northern Arulco isn't the healthiest idea either.


Sigh. It's about ingame. We do not have anybody in the game that could do any harm to the kulbas but the enemy (well, except the kitties, probably), do we?
If the escorted kulbas are treated as civs anyway, the "challenge" of protecting them in a fight is gone as they will never ever be targeted by AI, so they just may get hit by a stray bullet or something (if i got that thing right).
That way this quest loses some "challenge", IMVHO.
Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #313754] Mon, 31 December 2012 20:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3807
Registered:July 2009
What challenge? SOP is to clean north Arulco from Chitzena to Drassen and ship them through pacified territory. In exchange, you get a few bucks and two retarded handcannons. This has never been a challenging quest.


Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #313777] Wed, 02 January 2013 07:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Elvis_A

 
Messages:275
Registered:December 2012
Location: exUSSR
found few more bugs.

svn 1579
exe 5744

when I am trying to take all the clothes off - they are totally disappear.
When militia dies or fresh militia corpse found near me - I am uncovered by enemy.
when enemy retreats - it occupies nearby cities without any notification.

please find attached savegames
http://rghost.ru/42672872
Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #313788] Wed, 02 January 2013 16:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3416
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
E1vS
found few more bugs.

svn 1579
exe 5744

when I am trying to take all the clothes off - they are totally disappear.

Fixed in r5751.
E1vS

When militia dies or fresh militia corpse found near me - I am uncovered by enemy.

That is intentional. Spies get uncovered if they are seen near fresh corpses. This is necessary, as otherwise it would be much, much easier to clean entire sectors with just one spy.
E1vS

when enemy retreats - it occupies nearby cities without any notification.

please find attached savegames
http://rghost.ru/42672872

That has always been like that, personally I dont think a fix is necessary.


Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #313798] Wed, 02 January 2013 23:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Elvis_A

 
Messages:275
Registered:December 2012
Location: exUSSR
[quote=Flugente]
E1vS

When militia dies or fresh militia corpse found near me - I am uncovered by enemy.


Flugente

That is intentional. Spies get uncovered if they are seen near fresh corpses. This is necessary, as otherwise it would be much, much easier to clean entire sectors with just one spy.

well, you did not understand me - spy uncovered when found near MILITIA's corpse (not Deidrana's dead soldier).

If uncovered when near dead enemy soldier - it is fine, but being uncovered when found near Enrico/Miguel's dead militia - no logic.

About enemy retreats - they retreat into a sector occupied by my merc and worse if a sector is empty and sad thing when all my militia for example defend Drassen mine - enemy retreats to middle sector and captures it.

I am not sure is it bug or no but when I sent my spy to explore Tixa, spy entered through back door, via key, still Warden says her phrase about mistake, with nothing else going on later, no alarm, no nothing. I killed her easily, guards did not even bother turning on alarm when they found her dead.

I have a question, I started using forced the Turn base mode to kill enemies with auto fire to head, is it possible to do it in realtime mode? I mean I cannot fire more than 1(rare 2) bullet in real time. Burst fire is ok, but often is not enough.

Good job! looking forward to next releases.
good luck

[Updated on: Wed, 02 January 2013 23:38] by Moderator

Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #313800] Thu, 03 January 2013 00:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2020
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
DepressivesBrot
What challenge? SOP is to clean north Arulco from Chitzena to Drassen and ship them through pacified territory. In exchange, you get a few bucks and two retarded handcannons. This has never been a challenging quest.

It's been "challenge" intentionally. Wink
If you run into a patrol while escorting the Kulbas, you could just walk them across the map through the enemy if they were regarded harmless civs. No need for tactical thinking, no need to move them to cover, no fun. In my book. YMMV.
Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #313803] Thu, 03 January 2013 01:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3416
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Hmm. The game does not discern between what a corpse was before - corpse is corpse there. Altough I could try to check for their uniforms... aw well. Done in r5756.

Again, enemies retreating to sectors you occupy is normal. And pretty reasonable, as the player can do the same, so I think its perfectly fine.

Well, Warden can only say what she has in speechfiles. I certainly won't redo speeches...

E1vS
I have a question, I started using forced the Turn base mode to kill enemies with auto fire to head, is it possible to do it in realtime mode? I mean I cannot fire more than 1(rare 2) bullet in real time. Burst fire is ok, but often is not enough.
Eh... What?

[Updated on: Thu, 03 January 2013 02:32] by Moderator



Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #313807] Thu, 03 January 2013 02:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Elvis_A

 
Messages:275
Registered:December 2012
Location: exUSSR
Flugente

E1vS
I have a question, I started using forced the Turn base mode to kill enemies with auto fire to head, is it possible to do it in realtime mode? I mean I cannot fire more than 1(rare 2) bullet in real time. Burst fire is ok, but often is not enough.
Eh... What?



Imagine that you want to kill somebody with your spy (my spy has ~40 marksmanship, ~70 strength) and do not want to be uncovered. So what I usually do is finding enemy soldier who far away from others. So I stand behind him in realtime and try to open automatic fire but it is not working - all I do is fire a single shot. is there any other way to fire few shots except turn based mode?
Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #313808] Thu, 03 January 2013 02:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3416
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
You press 'b' to get burst or automode, and simply fire? I don't see the problem.


Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #313809] Thu, 03 January 2013 02:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2020
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
In realtime it's difficult to add shots to an autofire volley. I'd think that is what he is trying to say.
But i do not get his problem either as he can force turnbased to have "normal" autofire as needed.
Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #313810] Thu, 03 January 2013 04:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Elvis_A

 
Messages:275
Registered:December 2012
Location: exUSSR
Flugente
You press 'b' to get burst or automode, and simply fire? I don't see the problem.


well, below is what I meant

Sam_Hotte
In realtime it's difficult to add shots to an autofire volley. I'd think that is what he is trying to say.
But i do not get his problem either as he can force turnbased to have "normal" autofire as needed.



Yes, I turn on TB mode. bursts often not enough to kill (my spy is not very accurate) and I am afraid trigger group now is to "cool" to have and most smgs do not have burst fire mode. autofire is a single shot only it RT.
The thing is with switching modes is a waste of time.

new exe is available, so I am going to test it soon.

Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #313813] Thu, 03 January 2013 05:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3416
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Aha. Well, I am not going to change autofire. It stays as it is.

Edit: Wheeee! Lion-powered skull attachment to wings unlocked! Thank you, unknown forum people! :party:

[Updated on: Thu, 03 January 2013 05:12] by Moderator



Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #313823] Thu, 03 January 2013 08:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
graywolf364

 
Messages:8
Registered:September 2010
Should be Ctrl X if I remember correctly.
Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #313921] Sat, 05 January 2013 17:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
arkanglesk

 
Messages:29
Registered:June 2011
is this feat available in the "stable" official release (4870)? I realize you're talking about revision 5570 (or something like that) but SVN has different tracker numbers, right?
Or is the only way to get the spies is to DL via SVN?

Awesome work, btw!

P.S.: Ctrl-X and Ctrl-shift-X turn on/off the Real time sneaking feature, which I beleive is not used while spying... In fact, I think sneaking around should actually be suspicios to enemies.

[Updated on: Sat, 05 January 2013 17:45] by Moderator

Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #313922] Sat, 05 January 2013 17:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3416
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
This is not in 4870, as the earliest version was added in 5529.

The easiest way to get this is to use the newest SCI from DepressivesBrot, found here: http://www.bears-pit.com/board/ubbthreads.php/topics/311288/Depri_s_Builds_and_Packages_Ge.html#Post311288


Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #313923] Sat, 05 January 2013 18:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
arkanglesk

 
Messages:29
Registered:June 2011
Thank you! I'm updating right now. Dude, I've been reading your threads about new feats for a few hours now... your should be awarded the Legend medal, IMO.
Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #313973] Mon, 07 January 2013 06:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Slax

 
Messages:1448
Registered:July 2006
Location: People riding polar bears...
Disguising mid-combat gets kinda goofy.

It's nice to get a victory dance from the opposing team but I still think it's kind of odd.

Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #313982] Mon, 07 January 2013 16:19 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
johrael

 
Messages:27
Registered:June 2011
How is it possible for them to come so close to you and not get revealed? Even at Spy level, it's 5 squares away from detection.
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