Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » Flugente's Magika Workshop » New feature: Covert operations
Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #327555] Sun, 03 November 2013 16:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3307
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
[Ctrl] + [.] opens a menu, where that is one of the options.


Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #327585] Mon, 04 November 2013 08:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cnagorneac

 
Messages:186
Registered:April 2012
Oh, really. My bad. Thanks for explanation.
Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #327600] Mon, 04 November 2013 18:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Slax

 
Messages:1439
Registered:July 2006
Location: People riding polar bears...
Flugente
[Ctrl] + [.] opens a menu, where that is one of the options.

Gonna go a bit off topic.

I was thinking about the Ctrl+. thing last night. How about we update the hold-right-click menu and add stuff there instead? Seems more streamlined.

Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #327608] Mon, 04 November 2013 20:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3307
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
That would require new icons, altering arrays, setting up new mousregions, new mousecallbacks etc., all in a very ugly way, as the UI is horrible. Which is all a lot more work than adding a string and a function call to a switch().


Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #328227] Sat, 16 November 2013 04:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Vince7403

 
Messages:146
Registered:February 2012
Which lines in the IMP item choices XML are associated to Covert Ops/Spy?
Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #328231] Sat, 16 November 2013 16:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2296
Registered:May 2009
I would say that it's the block that says "Covert Ops" and the other that says "Covert Ops Exp" (Exp for "Expert" == Spy). Wink

Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #328242] Sat, 16 November 2013 22:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Vince7403

 
Messages:146
Registered:February 2012
The ones I'm looking at don't have those lines, but they may be a few versions old. Chalk up another to not paying enough attention, I suppose.
Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #329130] Sat, 21 December 2013 02:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Elvis_A

 
Messages:275
Registered:December 2012
Location: exUSSR
I am wondering why Manuel did not get Covert Ops trait?
Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #329977] Fri, 24 January 2014 20:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Slax

 
Messages:1439
Registered:July 2006
Location: People riding polar bears...
A stealthy firearm for a stealthy person. :whistle:

Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #331560] Sun, 30 March 2014 07:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Anthropoid

 
Messages:144
Registered:February 2014
I've noticed that, for a soldier with only covert ops, you have to wear nothing that is the least bit military. Is that WAD?
Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #331806] Sat, 19 April 2014 06:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Azure_Repeater

 
Messages:151
Registered:March 2014
Location: Philippines
My apologies if this was not the right thread, but which XML file defines the clothes we take from enemies? For example, what XML file do I have to change so that we take a Blue Shirt from an enemy ADMIN instead of a Yellow Shirt? Additionally, which XML file defines whether a shirt/pants (combination) is a military uniform or not?
Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #332050] Thu, 01 May 2014 20:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3307
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
@Repeater1947: TableData/Army/UniformColors.xml controls that.

Update: As or r7179, bleeding will get you uncovered only if COVERT_DETECTEDIFBLEEDING is set to TRUe in Skills_Settings.ini (default FALSE). The reason being that several times my spy as hit by stray fire from my own troops in combat, and then got uncovered due to bleeding... getting shot by rebels should never uncover you Smile.

To make up for that, throwing/lobbing items and shooting rockets is now deemed suspicious, and will uncover you (though that is glitchy, as this depends on the exact time the evaluation takes place, so one can evade that check).


Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #332165] Sun, 04 May 2014 02:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lepidosteus

 
Messages:93
Registered:November 2007
Location: Land of Buns.
Does the Melee minor trait increase CtH with the garotte, and does it stack with the CovOp bonus?

I skimmed through the thread but didn't see it mentioned.
Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #332701] Fri, 16 May 2014 20:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
veedotja2

 
Messages:88
Registered:April 2012
Location: New York
Finally got a chance to play with covert.

Took a while to figure out I needed to apply shirt AND pants. There is a uniform for sale so I though that was what I needed at first. Your way is better because you actually match your appearance so the sprite colors match the opposition.

Ctrl + . didn't give an option to check disguise until I was ACTUALLY disguised correctly, then I could test it. The test feature is great, by the way, so there's no confusion as to whether I'm doing it right. I noticed you can have camo, in addition to guns, if you are disguised as a soldier. Intentional?

Garrotte is amazing, but it's good to have a follow up if it fails.

Going to realtime was a hassle while doing covert in my Urban Chaos game (old exe) but I noticed with later .exe you only have to press [D] to enter turn based, and not Ctrl+Alt+Shift+T, which is a nightmare and easy to hit wrong. Real convenient and makes covert play a lot nicer.

Played many sectors, and had no bugs. It's a really powerful trait with 2 levels (Spy). Have to hold back. I like to run around enemies uncovering their roles and using another merc to snipe and assault them. It will be necessary to have enemy spies as well to balance out this really powerful trait.

Good work as always, Flugente.
Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #332702] Fri, 16 May 2014 20:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:1532
Registered:December 2012
Location: Under the Mountain
@VeeDotJA2

There are also useful options for spies and saboteurs:
SHOW_ENEMY_AWARENESS will show if enemy sees you and his alert level.

SHOW_COVER_INDICATOR will use color of merc's name to show his current cover level (only concerning enemies that are seen by the merc)


Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #332715] Sat, 17 May 2014 06:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Saibot

 
Messages:201
Registered:September 2009
I'm guessing gender of the soldier the uniform comes from matters? Unable to equip uniform with Mouse who I just hired to try it out.
Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #332719] Sat, 17 May 2014 09:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Saibot

 
Messages:201
Registered:September 2009
How exactly do I equip the uniforms? Had some laying in Omerta waiting for the spy from MERC, but he can't equip them.
Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #332720] Sat, 17 May 2014 09:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Saibot

 
Messages:201
Registered:September 2009
Ugh nevermind, have to apply them like camo and not equip like armor.
Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #332938] Wed, 21 May 2014 13:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Julix

 
Messages:92
Registered:June 2010
Location: Germany

I finally gave this a go myself. - I must say keeping myself from killing everything alone is really hard, but doing so isn't very satisfying because of the ease/hassle.

My main problem here is that there's no risk to people running up really really close to you, and that the cover is blown even if the person who just saw it dies soundlessly while "uncovering" me. To me it doesn't make sense that the clothing falls off... it also doesn't make sense that if I'm "made" I can just run out of view put the clothing back on and be safe. Maybe I'm missing something (due to the lack of general alarm, they all seem relaxed and calm until I kill them, which I guess is how it's supposed to work if you do it well).


Here's my suggestion: To avoid it being over-powered make it so that if you're directly in front of or besides a soldier they'll discover you. behind-beside and directly behind don't do that. - and at the same time cover isn't blown until a soldier says something, which he should be unable to if killed before he was quite turned around.

Maybe the problem was that it starts out in non-turn based... *goes back and tests*

Alright, that wasn't in fact the problem. It depended on whether or not the victim was certain that it was me. And somehow when you get a bullet in the back of the head you can't be certain. - I still find it strange that if you put a (loud!) bullet in his head (so he insta-dies) you get to stay under cover, but if you stare him in the eyes while you break his neck or strangle him you don't. -- However I have no idea how to fix that without making it even easier.


Before I made this melee-range spy IMP I tested Mouse a little, and must say that felt really well balanced because of the risk of detection. I didn't feel the risk of detection with spy rather than just covert op. Is there a way so I can change it so that there's a random chance of detection while nearby?
Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #332947] Wed, 21 May 2014 21:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3307
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Take a look at the settings in Skills_Settings.ini. Specifically, COVERT_ELITES_DETECT_NEXTTILE allows Elites to uncover you if you are close, even if your disguise is good.

The 'clothes fall off' is the easiest way of drastically indicating that you've been uncovered, and also gives you the means the reapply a disguise again. It is also a nod to Commandos Smile

Due to code reasons, suspicion is boolean. That means that enemies either uncover you instantly or not. Changing that to get, say, a 'suspicion meter' would require a major rework of a lot of code. This is also the reason that 'chance' has no role in uncovering.

You are also only uncovered if you are seen doing something suspicious. If nobody sees you shooting, they can't know you did it.

Everybody can disguise as a civilian. Mercs with the trait can also disguise as soldiers.

With no trait, you will be uncovered if closer to the enemy than COVERT_CLOSE_DETECTION_RANGE tiles.
With lvl1 trait, you will be uncovered in soldier disguise if closer to the enemy than COVERT_CLOSE_DETECTION_RANGE tiles. In civilian diguise you get as close as you like.
With lvl2 trait, you can get as close as you like, both as a civilian and a soldier.


Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #332961] Thu, 22 May 2014 03:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Julix

 
Messages:92
Registered:June 2010
Location: Germany

Thanks for explaining how it works Flugente! Smile

I'm starting to get used to the clothes falling off thing - it being to pieces of clothing I have to reattach in real time mode after a successful kill out of sight means a little bit excitement about whether or not I click in the right spots.

One way that this could be more exciting to me is if disguising would take time in real time mode. This is true for a few things, with first aid being the exception. First aid takes up what feels like more time in real time than round based, while everything else that is less than one round in round based is instant in real time. - Is there a way to build something based on the first aid animations but with a different icon on the merc's face indicating that they're applying camoflague make-up or coverting themselves?

Another thought: since you're putting on clothes, should it take longer if you're say laying down/crouching than standing up? In real life I hate putting on t-shirts while in bed Very Happy


The above are just ideas. - I've also run into some issues though where sometimes throwing a Molotov cocktail in the midst of a bunch of them doesn't make them angry (sometimes it does, doesn't seem to depend on whether or not they're looking at me, very confusing -- same happened with throwing ninja stars a few times). -- Despite me abusing it a little, I'm enjoying the feature, thanks a lot for making it happen!
Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #333851] Sun, 22 June 2014 03:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Griffinhart

 
Messages:12
Registered:June 2014
Just wanted to say thanks for this feature, it's friggin' awesome.

Killed a patrol outside of Drassen, disguised my entire squad, entered the airport at night, and proceeded to take control of the entire place without firing a single bullet.

Idea: is it possible to make an alternate attack for the garrote that both kills your target, and picks up the body (assuming you have a free hand)? E.g. like in this video.

-- Griffinhart
Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #334506] Thu, 24 July 2014 01:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TheOmegaMan

 
Messages:19
Registered:November 2012
Questions,

1. Can I only use the civilian disguise once?
2. How can I use a soldiers uniform
3. How do I drag corpses? Can I only do it while disguised mode?
Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #334508] Thu, 24 July 2014 01:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TheOmegaMan

 
Messages:19
Registered:November 2012
So my civilian disguise got compromised, and now I just have a shirt and pants; how do I obtain a new disguise?

Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #334524] Thu, 24 July 2014 13:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3307
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
You can use a disguise as often as you want. To put it on, drag shirt and pants on your merc's silhouette in your inventory. If no hostile sees you doing this, you will get the 'covert' property, indicated by the 'hat' icon.

You can get a soldier's uniform by clicking on a corpse with a knife equipped, this will bring up a small menu where you can select what you want to do. You can also select to pick up a corpse here, one hand must be free. There is no animation for dragging corpses, thus a corpse is simply a very heavy item.

Note that you will not get a shirt/pants if the body part that it is worn on has been damaged - it wouldn't make sense to disguise in a bloody uniform, would it?

When you press [Ctrl] + [.], one of the options you get is to get out of an uniform again. First click simply removes the 'covert' property (in case you simply want to recolour your mercs but not have them lose their clothes whenever an enemy sees them), the second time the clothes are put into your inventory.


Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #335756] Sat, 13 September 2014 16:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3307
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Most critique towards this trait comes from the fact that it is very easy to exploit. While direct attacks will get you uncovered, there are many ways to damage the enemy indirectly, like throwing out mustard gas grenades next to the enemy. For internal code reasons, uncovering a spy at that point would require disproportionate effort.

Basically, the problem is that in these cases, the animation is the only clue that a spy is doing a suspicious action - but he will only be uncovered if a enemy soldier does a sight check on him in that very moment. We shouldn't add more of these checks, because sightline checks are very expensive in game time terms.

As of r7514, I've added a workaround: whenever a spy performs a suspicious animation (or certain non-animated actions, like igniting a mustard gas grenade in his inventory), I set up a small combined timer - a few seconds and an AP counter. If an enemy tests the spy before either of these run out, he successfully uncovers the spy.

As a result, most checks now work the way they are intended. You can still do everything as a spy, but now the chance to be uncovered is much higher if people see you doing it.

A second change is that there is a new Skills_Settings.ini setting: If your spy is closer than COVERT_ELITES_UNCOVER_RADIUS tiles to an enemy, he will be uncovered if
  • the enemy is an elite and the spy is disguised as an admin or regular troop or
  • the enemy is an officers and your spy is disguised as an admin, regular troop or elite. Note that civilian disguises do not fall under this!
The justification is that troops higher in the hierarchy would know the platoon their with, and would point out if they saw someone they did not know pretend to be one of them. Officers are really dangerous know. Sorta like the old commandos game, where your spy had to avoid the SS even if disguised. If you don't like this change, simply set COVERT_ELITES_UNCOVER_RADIUS to 0.

As a result of these two changes, this trait should feel less overpowered now. Identifying potential threats is now very reasonable to do while infiltrating, and soldier disguises now have a real drawback compared to civilian disguises.

TL;DR: Spy now less exploity. Me happy! :drool:


Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #335776] Sun, 14 September 2014 19:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
grim

 
Messages:307
Registered:July 2006
Location: France
Flugente

You will be discovered if:
  • as civilian:
    • you are in a restricted sector, like Orta. Civs will be shot on sight here.

I had a strange experience lately concerning this.
Game version is 7492. (Enemy Generals feature active, dunno if it's important)
I land in omerta with my spy IMP, throw everything corrupting a civ disguise, put on the civ clothes, and try to test my disguise with the option from the menu obtained by 'ctrl + .'.
In return, i get the message : ' isn't supposed to be here!'
As soon as i meet any enemy, my disguise falls and i have the same message.

As a civ (disguised), what are the restricted zones and sectors? Is Omerta one of them? Can something or someone (generals?) impact on the restricted zones?

By the way, i really love that feature, thanks for implementing it and for the latest improvements to make it even more balanced.
Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #335777] Sun, 14 September 2014 19:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3307
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Not related to Generals at all. Look for in TableData/Map/SectorNames.xml. 2 means no civilians allowed at all, 1 means not allowed at night.


Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #335779] Sun, 14 September 2014 20:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
grim

 
Messages:307
Registered:July 2006
Location: France
Thanks for the quick, clear and helpful answer!
Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #336421] Fri, 03 October 2014 08:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Swant

 
Messages:29
Registered:April 2011
I am playing wiht Arulco Revisited and SDO and every time I tries to take a body the game crashes.
I can take the clothes but not the body.

Error report:

*** Fri Oct 03 07:12:51 2014 ***
[ ZOO4T-4EILA-C6I5F-CN7CE-B3GSY ]

[7.27011e-006]


Windos 8
SCI_SDO_RequiredCoreMod_Unstable_Revision_7476_on_GameDir_2139
AR+SDO_Unstable_Revision_7476_on_GameDir_2139
Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #336424] Fri, 03 October 2014 11:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann

 
Messages:288
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
I can confirm the crashes for this particular version, but couldn't reproduce it in the latest Unstable_Revision_7516_on_GameDir_2148 for SDO. So either "upgrade" or live with it this playthrough i guess.
Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #336430] Fri, 03 October 2014 13:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Swant

 
Messages:29
Registered:April 2011
Ok. Will you release a new AR+SDO compatible to Unstable_Revision_7516_on_GameDir_2148, or is there a way to upgrade anyway?
Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #336448] Sat, 04 October 2014 03:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann

 
Messages:288
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
It's available since 20.9. with SVN download.
Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #337301] Tue, 28 October 2014 18:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kirill_OverK

 
Messages:263
Registered:September 2010
Strohmann
It's available since 20.9. with SVN download.


good news !
Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #337481] Sun, 02 November 2014 14:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tascani
Messages:2
Registered:June 2014
I've been coming back to JA2 and it is amazing what modders can do - and do this game.
Thank you for your amazing work.
Being a noob modder I had a lot of questions but could solve most of them by reading and some trial and error.
I'm a bit stuck now though.

Playing with Strohmanns latest stable Release (7435) + AR and then copied over the files from latest unstable release. Everything works fine and my question should be true for all versions anyway:

Where can I find civilian clothes?
I got Mouse but she carries non and has no kit that has them. BR is in Estoni (due to AR) and I could either cheat or kill some random civilian to get the clothes.
Are there any available clothes (not army uniforms, civilian) in San Mona/Omerta/Drassen?
Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #337483] Sun, 02 November 2014 14:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3307
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Hi Tasc, welcome to the pit!

There are several ways to get clothes:
  • buy them from BR - not viable in your case.
  • buy them from shopkeepers. In vanilla 1.13, Keith and especially Tina sell clothes, though both is currently out of your reach.
  • find them as items in houses - it is highly unlikely that anybody has placed them there though.
  • Kill people and take their clothes. The best way to retrieve uniforms. Notice that you will be disguised as a soldier only if both vest and pants fit an army uniform pattern. In vanilla 1.13 these are yellow vest & green pants (admin), red vest & green pants (regular troop) and black vest & black pants (elite). If you combine a red vest with black pants, you would be disguised as a civilian - this an easy way to get a civilian disguise without resorting to atrocities in your case Smile

    Notice that, if you kill someone, clothes can be damaged. If you want to retrieve a vest, it would be good not to make any messy holes into it Wink


Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #337491] Sun, 02 November 2014 19:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Tascani
Messages:2
Registered:June 2014
Dear Flugente,

thank you for your answer.

I think the trick to combine a red shirt (regular) and a black pants (elite) to have civilian clothes is pretty convenient. Thank you, that is a really good way.
For testing purposes I disguised Mouse as a soldier, sneaked into Cambria to buy clothes ... which seems a bit off - but works. ^^
Thank you for this great feature and your support.

Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #338608] Mon, 29 December 2014 00:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CVB

 
Messages:136
Registered:September 2014
Location: Berlin
I seem to be unable to "use knife on corpse" if the body lies on a roof. Is this intentional? (tested with 7609 stable ENG)

[Updated on: Mon, 05 January 2015 20:45]

Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #343200 is a reply to message #338608] Sat, 14 November 2015 03:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Torres

 
Messages:181
Registered:June 2010
Location: Canary Islands
Wow man I had no idea spies were such a powerful tool, I just added the option of having tanks attack on patrols and I can easily sneak on the tank, plant a C4 charge and make a "stealthy" run for it (or else the A.I. identifies my footsteps and the tank runs me over)... once I have dealt with all armored threats I infiltrate the sector during night (or just have my mercs wait on the map edge until job is done) and with superior night vision power, silenced weapons and camo I've dealt with patrols of 50 guys + 3 tanks.

I'm effing impressed, this is a feature worth a ton of fucking money... it's good, it feels well balanced, it was well thought through... seriously man, this is a 10/10. This is like a mix of Agent 47 + Commandos + pure turn based goodness and geniality. I am fucking impressed.
Re: New feature: Covert operations[message #344579 is a reply to message #343200] Thu, 17 March 2016 12:33 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
sevenfm

 
Messages:1532
Registered:December 2012
Location: Under the Mountain
Some suggestions to make covert playing more balanced:

1. restrict covert spies from using flashlights at night
2. restrict covert spies from using radio
3. maybe optionally uncover any spy when the battle starts (red alert raised or enemy knows that enemy is in sector) and there are some killed army guys, so you can use a spy to sneaky kill one or two important army officers, but you cannot stay in enemy sight when the battle is going on (army guys usually start shooting at everything that moves when some of their friends are killed)
4. changing covert state from boolean to suspiciousness percent level can add a lot to the covert playing, this will allow, for example, to quickly pass by a lone enemy guard but force player to avoid coming close to groups of enemies, or you can even make a suspicious action (pick a lock) if there's only one admin standing in the room, but once you do this, you should hide somewhere and wait for the "suspiciousness counter" to become low again after some time



7609+fix | 7609+AI (r688) | 7609 unofficial modpack | Win8+ fix | Experimental project | Youtube
Point out what it is you are interested in.


Previous Topic: New feature: additional dialogue
Next Topic: New feature: enemy generals
Goto Forum:
  


Current Time: Mon May 21 10:15:06 EEST 2018

Total time taken to generate the page: 0.02048 seconds