Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » Flugente's Magika Workshop » New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them
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Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #333590]
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Tue, 10 June 2014 02:43
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Julix |
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Messages:105
Registered:June 2010 Location: Canada |
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Hey, to start off I want to say I'm enjoying this feature a lot.
Due to rantiness this comes with summary version:
1. Notification of AI for handcuffing seems unnatural in my games, I'd appreciate an option to deactivate it somehow.
2. Possibility of a noise system instead in which prisoners call for help personally to notify others within hearing range, but no one else.
3. I can steal Handcuffs off prisoners and re-use them in the same battle, is that intended?
I was experimenting with the Master spy capturing them all, much more like a jacky-chan/spy/action movie than a realistic strategy game, but loads of fun. However, the AI's sudden-notice is getting in the way of this, and I'm not sure why that's necessary. It was suggested that prisoners should still be able to make noise, thus explaining the notification they seem to be getting, but for making noises we have a system in place: yelling.
For example I knocked a guy down and he quickly yelled "ENEMY!" before he passed out (cause he was an elite and thus highly trained, and reacted with causing alarm even when surprised), only one guy nearby heard it who I also knocked out. Then I stayed down to see if there was alarm. There didn't seem to be. I put some handcuffs on them* and boom everyone's in alarm state and rushing around and freeing everyone again, at a different part of the map... it seemed unnatural, rather than like a "Dude, I haven't seen John in a while... think he went missing. Alarm!" kind of thing.
It might be better to have prisoners repeatedly call for help every couple rounds or when they hear sounds nearby, that way they still try to "notify" the AI but do so in a more personal way, i.e. people nearby can hear it and then use their mic to call it in or investigate themselves, but it's not free insta-knowledge for the enemy. -- This would also open up room for features that shut them up like threatening them into silence (using leadership I guess), or the device mentioned earlier in the thread (i.e. physically shutting them up).
I think you were just trying to add something cool to the game, not completely change it, but this has the potential to do the latter in an amazing, but non-intrusive/optional way. I don't know if you've played this game: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desperados:_Wanted_Dead_or_Alive - but it too can be played in a way where you beat people KO and tie them up and carry around the tied up bodies to avoid other people seeing them. That made it possible to take out large numbers of enemies with just few if done well. Of course we can already do that by just killing everyone carefully with a pistol with muffler or such; but your feature made keeping them alive possible as well, which would be an awesome change. --- is it potentially possible to make carrying of prisoners or even knocked out enemies a reality, or would the changing states between object (item) and subject (enemy) cause too much trouble?
*footnote on hand cuffs: currently I steal hand cuffs back after each use, because apparently they stay prisoners even without cuffs, and I do so because so far I only have a single pair (from Raider, who I flew in just for taking them), and haven't found a way to buy more yet. --- Is it supposed to be so that I can just take them off once they're cuffed and have them continue to be good prisoners until the battle is over?
Once again, sorry if I appear to demanding or anything like that. I'm intending to just be sharing my ideas, and thoughts, I really love what you've already made for us to use!
Julian
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Sergeant
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Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #333618]
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Wed, 11 June 2014 00:13
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Flugente |
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Messages:3509
Registered:April 2009 Location: Germany |
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One shouldn't be able to steal handcuffs back, no, that's a bug
It would be possible to have prisoners scream... but that would play nonsense with the AI. Specifically, militia would seek that noise and hang around the prisoner, which is a bit weird.
Applying tape to stop the prisoners is possible... threatening them to shut up is, while doable, more work. The problem is that we have to be able to indicate to the game that we want to interact with the prisoner in a way. So either we use the skill menu (which doesn't really fit and would be very unintuitive) or use a new, 'threaten-exclusive' item, for which we then need cursors, callbacks etc... This is actually nontrivial. It's the same reason we require a knife to interact with a corpse - it is rather complicated to tell the game we want to interact with something.
Carrying around living people is out of the question. Carrying corpses is only possible because a corpse contains so few information that I can condense it justifiably into an object. Doing the same with people would be unacceptable. To do it proper we would also need animations and a way to have one animation be used for two people simultaneously, which the game currently can't do (this is one of the problems that stops us from having static MGs).
All good ideas, but I currently lack the time
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Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #333649]
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Thu, 12 June 2014 01:44
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anv |
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Messages:258
Registered:March 2013 |
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Screaming prisoner could use not his ID as ubNoiseMaker but ID of any enemy (his enemy, meaning our merc) around him - enemies will treat it as player's noise and come to investigate its source, and militia will ignore it. Or you can even add special noise type - NOISE_SCREAM_FOR_HELP, that is considered only by bTeam of ubNoiseMaker, not the other way around.
Toggle Spoiler // if a the noise maker is a person, not just NOBODY
if (ubNoiseMaker < TOTAL_SOLDIERS)
{
// if this team is the same TEAM as the noise maker's
// (for now, assume we will report noises by unknown source on same SIDE)
// OR, if the noise maker is currently in sight to this HUMAN team
// CJC: changed to if the side is the same side as the noise maker's!
// CJC: changed back!
if (bTeam == Menptr[ubNoiseMaker].bTeam && ubNoiseType != NOISE_SCREAM_FOR_HELP)
{
continue;
}
if( ubNoiseType == NOISE_SCREAM_FOR_HELP && bTeam != Menptr[ubNoiseMaker].bTeam )
{
continue;
}
if (gTacticalStatus.Team[bTeam].bHuman)
{
if (gbPublicOpplist[bTeam][ubNoiseMaker] == SEEN_CURRENTLY && ubNoiseType != NOISE_VOICE)
{
continue;
}
}
}
There's already talking cursor, it could be used to threaten when used on prisoners. Talk menu called on enemies even has 2 "Talk" options, one could be replaced with "Threaten". Or Pablo Greco solution - punching prisoner should make him shut up at least for a while (as long as any merc is still around).
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Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #333702]
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Sat, 14 June 2014 01:04
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Julix |
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Messages:105
Registered:June 2010 Location: Canada |
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I upgraded from 7205 to 7249. Did you change this feature drastically recently or are the circumstances just different, that I found myself in recently? -- Either way, thanks a lot again.
It feels much more natural now. - While still undercover I managed to knock out some guys, then put them in hand cuffs, without blowing my cover (and then stole them back, cause I only have the one pair, and don't think that's fair. Someone like her would have brought loads to Alruco... ). Took a million reloads (as it should, because doing what she's doing is incredibly unlikely to work).
[sidenote: One of the first things I did was knock out an enemy in the radio role and steal his radio and take the battery out and drop it, yet they still manage to call reinforcements. Does that mean I missed a second radio man, or is it still true that any of the enemies can call reinforcements?]
I worked my way from the outside of the map towards the centre (going in a spiral, sort of), quite successfully. - But in the center people are more bunched together.
I was still figuring out what to do about them, as I finally ran into trouble. Suddenly there was reinforcements coming who then freed everyone. Going back a save I found out it was a problem with not being able to move the alive bodies, as one guy from the middle paroles that far out only rarely, thus making me think it was safe.
One of the first things I did was knock out an enemy in the radio role and steal his radio and take the battery out and drop it, yet they still manage to call reinforcements. Does that mean I missed a second radio man, or is it still true that any of the enemies can call reinforcements?
Moving alive, non-allied but co-operative or unconscious bodies would be a major game changer here, but as you said it would be difficult to do with picking up, due to temporarily making them disappear, become an object that somehow stores all their relevant information and then appear again, to potentially be freed later and continue being a soldier just as before?
But what if we do it without picking up? pushing/pulling for example?
-----
Another side note: While undercover and before ever discovered pressing D starts round based mode for me, and ending the round goes straight back to real time, not giving the "enemies" a turn because they're not my enemies yet. Repeatedly shifting between the two allows me to travel almost across the map (in round based mode) while everyone else is effectively standing still. While I love this for sneaking up to people where they might have turned or moved otherwise, it is effectively cheating. Any idea how to avoid it, besides not doing it?
Can't tell you how much I love your additions and contributions to this game!
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Sergeant
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