Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » Flugente's Magika Workshop » New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them
Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #313354] Wed, 19 December 2012 23:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Clarkew

 
Messages:78
Registered:May 2011
Location: East Texas, USA
Flugente


To demand surrender, you have to speak to the enemy Smile. You will be asked wether you want to demand surrender. Click on 'Yes'.


Oh awesome! I had initially disabled this in my game because i dint want to deal with battles ending early. This makes it a whole new ballgame though!!
Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #313361] Thu, 20 December 2012 01:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lepidosteus

 
Messages:93
Registered:November 2007
Location: Land of Buns.
Flugente
Glad you people like this Smile

Handcuffs, binders, pepper spray etc. can be bought at BR, and some mercs have some of it in their starting kits. At the moment, the pics are still placeholder items (pepper spray looks like a Glock 17 etc.), it'll be a few days till someone makes fitting pics.

To demand surrender, you have to speak to the enemy Smile. You will be asked wether you want to demand surrender. Click on 'Yes'.


Ah, I had forgotten all about the icons that shows when you view inventory in tactical. Thanks!
Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #313538] Tue, 25 December 2012 23:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Elvis_A

 
Messages:275
Registered:December 2012
Location: exUSSR
Flugente


You capture enemies by handcuffing them. This works best when they are unconscious. Simply put handcuffs in your man hand before clicking on them, the cursor will change. The other alternative is to speak to them and demand their surrender, but that will only work if they are in a hopeless situation.


i have seen stun gun at BR but i did not see handcuffs anywhere(there is no object with id 1625) in xml editor, am I doing something wrong? It seems that i do not have needed sti images and xml configs, am I right?
I am using rev 1578 exe 5744

They do not speak when they are unconscious =) but when they are conscious a believe they need some suppression fire.

[Updated on: Tue, 25 December 2012 23:52] by Moderator

Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #313541] Wed, 26 December 2012 00:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3387
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Please check wether you have handcuffs in your TableData/Items.xml. If not, then your data does not fit. They aren't any special sti's for the new items yet, but that might change in a while.

When they are unconscious, one can handcuff them without resistance, resulting in a guaranteed capture. Speaking is required when offering them surrender, like the enemy does on the player.


Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #313542] Wed, 26 December 2012 00:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Elvis_A

 
Messages:275
Registered:December 2012
Location: exUSSR
almost in the end of items.xml


1625
Handcuffs
Handcuffs
If you want to arrest someone, it is helpful to keep them from using their hands.
Handcuffs
Standard police handcuffs.
268435456
1
2
35
2
4
16
20
2
1
5
Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #313563] Wed, 26 December 2012 15:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3387
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Well yes, that is the handcuffs item. If this, however, does not show up in your xml editor, you should check on wether your are really looking at the correct set of data.


Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #313669] Fri, 28 December 2012 20:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Elvis_A

 
Messages:275
Registered:December 2012
Location: exUSSR
Flugente
Well yes, that is the handcuffs item. If this, however, does not show up in your xml editor, you should check on wether your are really looking at the correct set of data.


It may sound weird, but when I got the latest exe (5749) handcuffs appeared in the game but still items starting from 1625 are absent in XML editor.

[Updated on: Fri, 28 December 2012 20:34] by Moderator

Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #313766] Tue, 01 January 2013 17:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Clarkew

 
Messages:78
Registered:May 2011
Location: East Texas, USA
There is an xml editor cache directory as a sub dir of dsta1.13. can't recall the exact name off the top of my head but it should be fairly obvious if you set out looking for it. Anyway, if your file set changes you may have to delete this to get xml editor to reload the new data. At least i have to using windows 7. The editor regenerate these files when it starts up in their absence.
Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #313772] Tue, 01 January 2013 23:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
acqsen

 
Messages:17
Registered:December 2011
i am so happy someone made the handcuffs mod.
Big thank you Flugente. I am a pacifist too.
Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #313812] Thu, 03 January 2013 05:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3387
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Hi Acqsen, welcome to the pit!

Update: As of r5757, when offering an enemy the surrender option, he counts any of your spies disguised as soldiers as 'his', so having spies there actually makes it less likely he'll surrender Smile

Also, asking the enemy to surrender while in disguise might be a less-than-well-planned course of action.

[Updated on: Thu, 03 January 2013 05:08] by Moderator



Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #314368] Fri, 18 January 2013 15:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cnagorneac

 
Messages:185
Registered:April 2012
Is it possible to add in this dialogue possibility to surrender? I am playing Ironman playthrough and this option would be nice.
Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #314377] Fri, 18 January 2013 22:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3387
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
I am not sure I understand your question... when speaking to an enemy, you can ask him to surrender... and he will do so, or not. What exactly is missing?


Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #314378] Fri, 18 January 2013 22:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2020
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
He wants to offer HIS surrender to the enemy at will.
Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #314380] Fri, 18 January 2013 23:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3387
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Hmm. While that already is possible once, I do like players begging for mercy... otoh, I am not in a coding mood... well see.

[Updated on: Fri, 18 January 2013 23:06] by Moderator



Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #314384] Sat, 19 January 2013 01:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Clarkew

 
Messages:78
Registered:May 2011
Location: East Texas, USA
That's actually a good idea IMHO. Captured mercs can be rescued so a surrender could save the life of a merc who you don't want to lose permanently. Anything to keep me from loading a previous save is good thing.
Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #314417] Sat, 19 January 2013 21:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3387
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
As of r5793, you can now surrender to the enemy when talking to him. This works just the way it does when he asks you. However, this will not when certain quests are active (2 quests involving prisons) or when the enemy has already asked you to surrender in this battle before.
When you now talk to an enemy, button '1' lets you demand the enemy to surrender, '2' offers you surrender, and '3' and '4' is just the usual talking.

This option is toggled on via the ini setting 'PLAYER_CAN_ASK_TO_SURRENDER'.


Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #314631] Wed, 23 January 2013 02:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cnagorneac

 
Messages:185
Registered:April 2012
Oh, that's a real great feature. Thank you very much. Looks like it is the time for me to start another Ironman playthrough.
Just curious. What is the reason that it works only if the enemy did not offered surrender to you already? Is it for a technical reason or you just decided that it would be logical? I personally would prefer it to be available always, because ususlly even if the enemy offering me surrender I manage to kill some of them before dyeing, but even so it is a very nice feature. Thank you again.
Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #314632] Wed, 23 January 2013 02:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3387
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Its a deliberate decision I made. If you at first decline the offer to be a prisoner, the army might not be in the mood for such games once blood has been shed :armsfolded:


Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #315018] Thu, 31 January 2013 22:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rust_Knight

 
Messages:77
Registered:June 2009
Location: Romania, Bucharest
Sorry, a bit new around - what exactly do i have to download so i can get this mod/update?
Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #315019] Thu, 31 January 2013 22:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3387
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
An exe and GameDir that are relatively new. The newest SCI, for example.

[Updated on: Thu, 31 January 2013 22:07] by Moderator



Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #315572] Tue, 19 February 2013 04:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RunAwayScientist

 
Messages:85
Registered:September 2001
Bombrik
Am running into a small issue, game crashes anytime I try and set someone on prison duty. Tried it at Alma and San Mona, and had the same crash error.

"Runtime Error

Press to Exit

File: vobject.cpp
Line: 965
Function: BitVideoObjectToBuffer
Video object index is larger than the number of subimages"



This issue is caused by Data\Interface\PORTRAITICONS_A.sti (B,C,D, etc.) not being replaced with the new, updated portrait icons.

I imagine you've already fixed this by now, but I thought I'd throw that out there for anyone else who might run into this error message.

Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #315578] Tue, 19 February 2013 12:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
max_da_killah

 
Messages:10
Registered:February 2010
Flugente
As of r5793, you can now surrender to the enemy when talking to him. This works just the way it does when he asks you. However, this will not when certain quests are active (2 quests involving prisons) or when the enemy has already asked you to surrender in this battle before.
May I ask why you choose to disable the "offer surrender" option while prison quest are active?
I find it perfectly reasonable to offer the surrender of my ambushed pack-mule squad while my combat squat(s) are on their way to Tixa to free Dynamo and Shank.
The same goes for the prison break in N7 if the odds of surviving the attempt aren't up to par. K, in this case there might be a high chance of an infinite loop (surrender -> get interrogated by Deidranna -> prison break -> surrender -> get interrogated by Deidranna -> prison break -> surrender -> ... ad infinitum) that needs to be dealt with.

And just to clarify things, lets say my 3 merc squat managed to kill 20 of 30 enemies, how likely is it that the opposing force will surrender if i offer them the chance?


Also there needs to be an "execute captured/surrendered enemies" option at the and of the battle. Especially early in game when one does not have control of a prison and setting them free would be a really bad decision. Of course doing this should reduce the likelihood of further surrenders.
Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #315585] Tue, 19 February 2013 20:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3387
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
This is not active during those quests because it might interfere with them. No loss at all, as this option didn't exist previously.

In your case, surrender of enemy forces is very unlikely. See first page posts regarding surrender strength for a calculation.

There will be no option that allows one to kill prisoners in the trunk. Because some (most likely german) idiots would then erect deathcamps in Arulco, and I don't want that. Some things simply don't belong into a game.

[Updated on: Tue, 19 February 2013 20:58] by Moderator



Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #315772] Wed, 27 February 2013 16:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Illustair

 
Messages:8
Registered:February 2013
Hi. "Note that the AI will get alerted if you handcuff prisoners. So stealthily handcuffing an entire sector will not work easily Smile" - is this really intended or is it because of some technical limitation? You mean if I successfully disarm an enemy and put handcuffs on him, the entire sector would immediately get alerted? Why? I can see the mod working well with covert ops without the said limitation...
Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #315775] Wed, 27 February 2013 20:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gambigobilla

 
Messages:717
Registered:July 2008
Maybe we need some kind of gag for this.

Also welcome to the Pit. :wave2:
Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #315862] Sat, 02 March 2013 20:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3387
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Update: New dialogue box (r5888) allows you to select from up to 7 prisons under your control, plus 'release'-option:
http://i48.tinypic.com/24gtuud.jpg

Illustair
Hi. "Note that the AI will get alerted if you handcuff prisoners. So stealthily handcuffing an entire sector will not work easily Smile" - is this really intended or is it because of some technical limitation? You mean if I successfully disarm an enemy and put handcuffs on him, the entire sector would immediately get alerted? Why? I can see the mod working well with covert ops without the said limitation...
This is intended. Why not technically required, this would otherwise allow one to exploit both mechanics, and enable your spy to capture entire platoons with his bare hands and a stack of binders. This would seem very wrong to me, thus I felt it necessary to alert AI in these cases.


Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #315898] Mon, 04 March 2013 03:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Vince7403

 
Messages:146
Registered:February 2012
What if you used the tranquilizer darts and handcuffed the victim after? I guess the game might not be able to keep track of what knocked the soldier out, but if it can then maybe there should be an exception for that - or is that asking too much?
Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #315940] Tue, 05 March 2013 02:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3387
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Significant update: With r5896 and GameDir r1613, something new happens: The prisoners of war you have caught and transferred to your prisons will actually appear in the tactical map. :jail:

http://i50.tinypic.com/11qpye9.jpg
Our team has taken quite a few prisoners, which are now in their cells in the liberated Alma prisons.

For every prisoner we caught, one will appear on the map (provided there is still room in the civilian team there). They are divided on the prison cells. They will not go hostile, since they are totally defenseless, as you've already taken their gear earlier...

However, harming them has negative repercussions: Loyalty in he next town will slightly lowered, as it dawns to the local population that the so-called liberators of Arulco are as brutal as the army. :vader: Naturally, killing prisoners of war removes them from your 'prisoner pool'.

They also have fitting dialogue, where they mock you, plead for mercy, or offer something for their release.

What is propably interesting for modders is that you can set up the room numbers via xml. You can specify up to 16 prison room numbers in Map/SectorNames.xml:

    I13
    Alma
    Alma
    Alma
    Alma
    1
    100
    2
    38
    39
    40
    41
    42
    43
    44
    45
    46
    47
    48
    49
    50
    51
   

These are the exact room numbers from the map editor. Prisoners will appear in any sector with a prison facility and specified prison rooms if prisoners are present.



Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #315941] Tue, 05 March 2013 02:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3387
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
@Vince7403: I was a bit unclear in what I wrote. Capturing someone does not raise alarm, but if the AI sees someone captured, it raises alert. It should stay like that.
  • In the last update, I also increased the default chance of positive effects on interrogating prisoners.
  • What is also new is that we now display the actual surrender strength sums (ini option) so that the player has a clue as to why the AI won't surrender.
  • Also in the ini: the surrender strength modifier has been externalised (was previously hardcoded to 6, see previous posts). This allows finetuning of how easy you want surrendering to be 8within bounds).
Over the last few days, quite a few fixes were made, most significant in the the prisoner system and the militia equipment feature. If you want to use those features, I strongly advise using the newest exe. Just ask your nearest SCI distributor Smile.


Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #315948] Tue, 05 March 2013 08:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Vince7403

 
Messages:146
Registered:February 2012
If one is playing a campaign mod that doesn't yet have prisoner spawn points specified, will the game still do the original, abstract prisoner management?
Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #315973] Tue, 05 March 2013 20:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3387
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
The game does the original prisoner management anyway. Prisoners can now spawn in a sector if the xml values exist (and the rooms referenced in it exist in the map).


Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #315992] Wed, 06 March 2013 02:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Thor

 
Messages:430
Registered:February 2007
Location: Belgium
Now this is awesome! Really nice stuff... Perhaps we should give 'em a prison suit to make it complete.. I noticed they don't have their uniforms anymore.

(edit: guess priority on this clothing feature isn't very high... Razz)

[Updated on: Wed, 06 March 2013 02:13] by Moderator

Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #316038] Thu, 07 March 2013 15:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Zombiehunter

 
Messages:185
Registered:March 2011
Location: Franconia, Germany
Hi,

first of all this is by far one of the most useful new features for JA2 I've ever seen, very nice work Flugente, Kudos.

But now I got a question, will we be able to arrest NPCs like Doreen, Mike, the General in Alma, perhaps even all those bad Terrorists, Intercept wants us to apprehend? I mean you could do it in a fashion like those escort missions, you catch them, bam they're part of your team, means you have access to his inventory and so on except of course, you can't give them any kind of weapons for obvious reasons. Now you can escort them to your nearest Prison and drop them off there. This would make a great RPG option for "having a trial" for Doreen and make her execution, lifetime imprisonment for child slave labour and war profiteering, more how should I put it "festive" Wink
Maybe you could even talk some sense Mike to join the right cause, thinking about a minigame here, you need a merc with high leadership and it takes some time a few days or weeks maybe until you can convince him to stop being an asshole and go play for the winning team ^^

[Updated on: Thu, 07 March 2013 15:54] by Moderator

Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #316048] Thu, 07 March 2013 20:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3387
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
At the moment one can only capture enemy soldiers, and only offer surrender to their team. Three reasons:
A) Capturing NPCs, and thus removing them after battle, was not intended in the game originally,thus it might break quests.
B) This would make fights against civilians too easy. Kingpin's hitmen (and the new assassins) are alone, so they would always surrender instantly if you ask them, as you meet them mostly in towns where you have militia.
C) This would actually be bad for the terrorists. The soldier gets removed, and he takes his head along...
D) This might be changed for a few civilians with an upcoming feature (and even be a significant part of it), but not for NPCs with profiles.

Hiring other NPCs was done a long time ago, search for 'MMM' in this forum (Many Mercenaries Mod).


Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #316050] Thu, 07 March 2013 21:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Zombiehunter

 
Messages:185
Registered:March 2011
Location: Franconia, Germany
I think you misunderstood what I meant,
I wasn't thinking about arresting for example Mike like the regular Arulcean Army Soldiers where you get asked which prison you wanna send them to, I thought more about arresting Mike, he joins your team like Skyrider does when you have to escort him back to Drassen Airport and then you could bring Mike to Alma Prison for example and leave him there like you can do with Skyrider even before you reach Drassen and the Chopper and if you come back Skyrider is usually still there.

So basicly what I am trying to say here, you arrest Mike or some other unliked NPC you wanna incarcerate haul his ass to the next prison you control and drop him there, that he stays there indefinetly, except of course you release him or shoot him (or recruit him Wink )

About C) I was more thinking about turning over the alive terrorists to Carmen, for it's not my job to be the Policeman, Judge and Executioner over the crimes they've commited Wink

Thanks for the hint to "MMM" actually have heard about it but not thought about it, dumb me ^^
Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #317953] Fri, 26 April 2013 06:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Meowmers

 
Messages:13
Registered:October 2005
Location: New York

could i put prisoners to work?

would i simply have to edit facilities.xml and add a chain gang task that makes money?
how could i make it depend on the amount of prisoners and make Bubba really good at it?
Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #317974] Fri, 26 April 2013 11:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gambigobilla

 
Messages:717
Registered:July 2008
^^^Bwahhhahhahha! Sounds evil. I would love to see this.
Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #317979] Fri, 26 April 2013 13:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rizzla

 
Messages:41
Registered:February 2008
Truely incredible. Nice work, Flugente.
Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #318020] Fri, 26 April 2013 23:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3387
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Make prisoners work... Hmm. Relatively easy to code, but doesn't fit my vision. Once can easily amass huge amounts of prisoners, which would then make it too easy to get lots of money, so some sort of balance is needed.

In an unreleased feature, Bubba and Bull get a huge bonus to 'guard duty', as they are former prison guards, and mercs with law enforcement background get a bonus to interrogation. I'm still unsure when I'll release that one.


Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #318061] Sat, 27 April 2013 15:21 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2020
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
Flugente
Make prisoners work... Hmm. Relatively easy to code, but doesn't fit my vision. Once can easily amass huge amounts of prisoners, which would then make it too easy to get lots of money, so some sort of balance is needed.

Perhaps putting them to work implies that the work is done outside prison (like in one of he mines) and comes along with a significant risk of them breaking free and joining enemy forces again?
(That way using prisoners for income is balanced by reducing this income through loss of workers).
Or/and restricting the amount of workers you can assign to the work/facility?
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