Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » Flugente's Magika Workshop » New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them
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| Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #318075]
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Sat, 27 April 2013 17:19  
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| Flugente |
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Messages:3507
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany |
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Ah yes. Dying soldiers can be handcuffed. However that is pointless currently, as you cannot heal them, and they will die if combat ends (which happens when all non-dying soldiers are dead or captured).
I stand corrected. I correctly remembered that soldiers refuse to be bandaged - but dying soldiers are unconscious, so they can't say no. So yes, you can bandage dying soldiers, captured or not. I'll see if I can make a small change that allows bandaging of any capture soldiers (so you don't have to wait till they are dying until you can bandage them fully).
[Updated on: Sat, 27 April 2013 17:35] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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| Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #318115]
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Sun, 28 April 2013 03:55
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 turtlemoviesco |
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Messages:16
Registered:April 2013
Location: UnitedStates |
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Cool thanks for all the support guys.
Hey I noticed that Ira and Demitri can't talk to enemies to offer surrender but everyone else can, is this just me?
Would it be possible to make the prisoners become full on soldiers when interigated instead of militia? When I have prisoners in a prison I normally already have the max militia in that sector and free crappy soldiers would be cool to have.
Just make them all look the same, and just have random stats and maybe allow me to give them a name? Just an idea.
[Updated on: Sun, 28 April 2013 03:59] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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| Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #318256]
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Tue, 30 April 2013 06:05
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| turtlemoviesco |
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Messages:16
Registered:April 2013
Location: UnitedStates |
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Is there a way to make the milia travel with me? I just feel like the one prison turned into a miltia is a bit useless, are they atleast free or do they add to the daily cost?
I guess turning them into mercs woulnt work how I was thinking, i was thinking everyone would be the same when it comes to bio, looks, voice, image, etc with the oy difference being the name one gets to assign, but as you said you cant just create unlimited mercs, would be cool though. If it was possible they would have to be really crappy soldiers or one could make a super army easliy, i was thinking it would be possible but you would have to make them train alot lol.
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| Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #318277]
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Tue, 30 April 2013 20:14
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| Meowmers |
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Messages:13
Registered:October 2005
Location: New York |
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FlugenteMake prisoners work... Hmm. Relatively easy to code, but doesn't fit my vision. Once can easily amass huge amounts of prisoners, which would then make it too easy to get lots of money, so some sort of balance is needed.
In an unreleased feature, Bubba and Bull get a huge bonus to 'guard duty', as they are former prison guards, and mercs with law enforcement background get a bonus to interrogation. I'm still unsure when I'll release that one. Well, prisoners only make a few cents a day so i was thinking that or a small boost to mine income since thats where you'd probably force them to work so not too much money. Also, if you have too many prisoners don't they riot? The balance could be that, or a constant loyalty hit for using slave labor, a limit on prisoners per jail or a cap on how much can be made or make it editable like militia costs.
I think players that would unbalance their game, farming prisoners wouldn't have too much of a problem just using GABBI cheats.
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| Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #318316]
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Wed, 01 May 2013 07:53
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| Meowmers |
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Messages:13
Registered:October 2005
Location: New York |
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It's not about the money, it's more how prisoners are "used up". and i bit into the game you dont really need money or info on positions so it's not even worth it to capture retreating enemies much less hiring a specialized merc to interrogate them (though oddly enough, they are both the cheapest)
Anyway, I dont want to argue the way i have it working is good enough for me for now and i love all your work. I just wanted to fulfill anyones mining baron/slaver fantasies.
now that i think about it, prisons should by default be costing you money so breaking even is a fair trade off.
[Updated on: Wed, 01 May 2013 12:30] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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| Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #319243]
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Fri, 10 May 2013 03:13
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| Aurochs |
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Messages:2
Registered:March 2012
Location: Arizona |
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So can you take Deidranna prisioner this way? Making her stand trial for all her horrible crimes seems appropriate, I think.
I'm also curious on how this prisoner Interaction thing works with soem of the NPC animals. If I were to handcuff a cow/bloodcat/alien, would they show up in the prision? Will the Hicks offer to ransom back any cows I capture? What sort of information could I aquire from interrogating an alien? How would you even go about interrogating an alien? I would assume that many creatures/npcs would be un-capturable to prevent problems like this, but at the same time I think it would be a nice feature to have some sort of unique event trigger when you manage to capture some of the important named enemies such as Mike or Deidrianna.
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Civilian
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| Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #322651]
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Sat, 13 July 2013 03:32
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| Flugente |
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Messages:3507
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany |
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Update: r6219 and GameDir r1703 give us a prisoner-type differentiation. There are admin/regular/elite prisoners. Advanced prisoners are harder to interrogate, but can become advanced militia, should they join you.
- If several types of prisoners are in your prison, the low-quality ones are interrogated first.
- If you decide to massacre prisoners in tactical, the elite ones will be killed first, as there the most valuable ones to you. Along to awarding you a loyalty malus in a nearby town for being a total dick, that is.
- If a prisoner joins you, there is a 20% chance that he will be demoted. So if an elite prisoner joins you, 80% chance of him becoming a veteran militia, 16% regular, and 4% green.
- Interrogation points needed can now be set in the ini for each type:
PRISONER_INTERROGATION_POINTS_ADMIN = 80
PRISONER_INTERROGATION_POINTS_REGULAR = 100
PRISONER_INTERROGATION_POINTS_ELITE = 140
PRISONER_INTERROGATION_POINTS_SPECIAL = 250
- This is fully savegame compatible! Existing prisoners will be transformed into admin prisoners. Unless you have >255 of them in one prison, then they'll become regulars. And if more than 65535 elites. Though I doubt this is relevant to anyone
 - You'll note that this also factors in 'special' prisoners - which you cannot get at this point. That might change in the future.
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| Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #323235]
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Thu, 25 July 2013 20:29
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| Flugente |
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Messages:3507
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany |
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When the enemy sees captured enemies, they are alerted... but there is no way to uncover you, as they don't know who captured them.
There is no animation for handcuffing (not sure atm which one I am using instead), and the detection of actions is mostly via animations.
However, it seems I currently do not uncover disguise on unsuccessful handcuff attempts, that could be changed... and is done so in r6241.
[Updated on: Thu, 25 July 2013 20:58] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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| Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #323247]
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Fri, 26 July 2013 01:04
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| Bambusar |
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Messages:63
Registered:July 2012 |
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Thx that makes more sense now.
Also maybe solution would be that they uncover you if you are seen near captured enemy, like it is done for dead body. Or maybe make enemies recognize you sooner if they are alerted. Or seeing you using handcufs/binders should be immediately uncover same as it is for using weapon.
In current state I can do whatever I want: I can be right next to them handcuffing their friend and they dont recognize me. Not sure maybe my mecs is a bit to buffed up, but they should recognize me being so close to them. In start of the game they did recognize me when I came near them but now in second half they just dont, even though I have G11. When you capture one guy and they found him they all swarm near him all alerted and nervous where i can just handcuff one by one.
I am testing various possibilities of Covert trait, I also found that arming TNT one tile away from group of them is a bit to easy to do and it doesnt get you uncovered. Same goes for mustard gas. Sometimes you can just throw unarmed TN near them and arm it with smaller grenade.
Where feature works brilliantly is if you distract them with some fire so they all run in one part of map while you use silenced weapons to kill guys that stay behind when nobody is watching.
covert Trait also works beautifully as sniper spotter, or as mine/TNT placer. Also throwing knifes to them usually doesnt uncover you. And being seen near fresh body (stealing his grenades or pulling throwing knifes from his head) always uncovers you as planned.
Playing with this feature brought that commandos feel to game.
To balance this i turned on that traitors in own militia (ENEMY_ASSASSINS = TRUE) but so far nobody betrayed me.
Also
When some item on you is suspicious I am still getting only message that my special .38 or barracuda is suspicious.
See pic: http://imm.io/1dzrX
[Updated on: Fri, 26 July 2013 01:06] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Corporal
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| Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #323251]
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Fri, 26 July 2013 01:44
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| Flugente |
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Messages:3507
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany |
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A huge problem (which leads to those exploits) is that its not very easy for the AI to decide when you are doing a 'forbidden' action. Basically, the AI checks wether it recognizes you if something significant changes - like when someone enters its fov. Most actions do not cause those checks. And I can't add them everywhere, as that significantly slows down the game. We can also only decide wether an action is 'forbidden' by checking its animation. This means that we will only uncover someone if we do a check while he is doing that animation. If, say, handcuffing has the same animation as giving an item to someone, I can either not check for that animation - or check for it, and then also uncover people when they just someone an item - which is also bad.
Same for throwing mustard gas grenades - if we are not in throwing animation anymore, and the grenade doesn't directly hit anyone, the AI has no clue whose gas it is, even if its perfectly clear to any human that its probably the guy in the direction where it came from. This gets even worse, as one can arm bombs and grenades in your inventory - one can wear a good gasmask, move next to an enemy, an detonate a mustard gas grenade in your own hands - not even an animation there to catch that.
Auto-uncovering when near a captured person... that would be as reasonable as being near a corpse. Which isn't really reasonable, but gets the job done. I'll think about it, good idea.
Another idea would be to uncover even expert spies if they are very close - that would limit exploits drastically, but also remove some stuff I want (like being able to infiltrate armed installations, where you have to walk near soldiers to get in. Hmm. Perhaps so that only elites could uncover you if too close? Hmm. Hmmm. :headscratch:
Finally, someone who plays with assassins! To increase probability of them showing up, you can increase ASSASSIN_PROPABILITY_MODIFIER. They are also more likely to show up the more militia is in a sector (justified as its easier for them to blend in then). As they only make their move when they see your mercs, you might have already been in sectors with them but gotten lucky... moving around the entire sector helps.
Wrong item name is fixed in r6245.
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| Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #323270]
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Fri, 26 July 2013 17:07
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| Bambusar |
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Messages:63
Registered:July 2012 |
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Is it possible to elites soldiers uncover expert spies only if they are in front of them and one or two tiles away?
So you can still infiltrate facilities if you distract them to look away (with rock or some noise) and sneak behind their back pass them.
But yeah crossing paths with them if they stand in the doorway with pressing "x" would be impossible. If you want to leave that option ingame then you have to leave things as they are.
(This new feature feels natural at Alma "save the rocket rifle" miniquest. Its much easier to sneak near the NOPE-NOPE button with it)
But anyway uncovering you with unsuccessful capture (that happens in like 50% on captains and 80% on elites) attempt pretty much disables that exploit anyways. And since you need at least two turns to dress in enemy soldier again it works well, maybe it should take even more APs to get changed, so you wouldn't be able to run into nearest bush and be back in two turns.
Thx for the features and all your work.
[Updated on: Fri, 26 July 2013 17:10] by Moderator Report message to a moderator
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Corporal
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| Re: New feature: Take prisoners, interrogate them[message #323283]
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Sat, 27 July 2013 01:22
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| Flugente |
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Messages:3507
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany |
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Update: As of r6248, enemy soldiers can now free captured comrades.
When spotting a captured comrade, the AI will raise the alarm, and then try to free him. To free him it must be near him, and then spend some AP - no animation though. Note that it will be able to free a prisoner that was caught with binders, but not one that was caught with handcuffs.
Trivial sidenote: I decide that by checking wether the prisoner has handcuffs in his hands (when capturing someone with handcuffs, they are moved to his hands). By stealing from that prisoner, you can get the handcuffs back - but now the prisoner is free-able again. :moosegrin:
Nontrivial sidenote: It would be relatively easy to modify the AI to not only free freshly captured enemies, but also the prisoners that are spawned in your prisons, once you have taken some. So if someone - say, an infiltrator disguised as one of your militia - were to gain access to a prison... and would be interested in freeing all those prisoners... :cloud8:
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