Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » v1.13 Idea Incubation Lab  » 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #331728] Sat, 12 April 2014 21:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Parkan

 
Messages:438
Registered:April 2010
Location: Russia,Sevastopol

Any news about update? =)
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #331947] Sun, 27 April 2014 01:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann

 
Messages:288
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
An alpha version of the upcoming release is currently undergoing testing, if anyone wants to speed up the process and participate, write me a pm.
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #331948] Sun, 27 April 2014 03:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Slax

 
Messages:1438
Registered:July 2006
Location: People riding polar bears...
Oh my. Changelog?

Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #332016] Wed, 30 April 2014 18:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Yoshi

 
Messages:45
Registered:January 2008
Location: Portugal
What's the last release this overhaul is compatible with? I'm using the latest unstable. (r7141/r2007)

I was wondering which one I should download to ensure the best compatibility Razz

Is the gamedir revision for SDO, r1894? Or is this number a release number for SDO? It got me confused. That being said, would Deapri's SCI (r6692/r1894) work?

[Updated on: Wed, 30 April 2014 18:43] by Moderator

Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #332017] Wed, 30 April 2014 21:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann

 
Messages:288
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
The r1894 in the opening post refers to the Stock 1.13 gamedir revision SDO is compatible with. The first four-digit number in SCI_Unstable_Revision_xxxx_on_GameDir_yyyy refers to the exe version; but this is irrelvant for SDO as i always include a fitting exe in the download packages.

So if you don't want to manually copy the changes made in Stock 1.13 since then to the SDO files (or participate in the alpha test mentioned above) you indeed have to use the SCI_Unstable_Revision_6692_on_GameDir_1894 from december.
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #332018] Thu, 01 May 2014 00:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Yoshi

 
Messages:45
Registered:January 2008
Location: Portugal
Thank you for the explanation. I saw the alpha files and thought about testing them... But time is lacking right now for me to test and feedback properly.

In any case, it's great to see that such an old game still gets a lot of love from the community. I'll be keeping track of this Overhaul Razz

[Updated on: Thu, 01 May 2014 00:17] by Moderator

Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #332036] Thu, 01 May 2014 17:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Toma777

 
Messages:54
Registered:October 2013
Location: serbia
Some weapon dont have description, like ak 12 series, SVK 12, RPK 12.
otherwise great mod. Especially love ammo renaming.
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #332039] Thu, 01 May 2014 18:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann

 
Messages:288
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
Feedback about the alpha version please per pm (especially spoilers).
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #332040] Thu, 01 May 2014 18:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Toma777

 
Messages:54
Registered:October 2013
Location: serbia
Ok! Sorry i dint mean to ruin suprises i just wanted to help! Next time i Pm bugs!
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #332910] Tue, 20 May 2014 22:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
krux

 
Messages:62
Registered:June 2011
I'm starting to get hyped for the next version. A changelist or some hints on what's in store would be great!
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #333120] Mon, 26 May 2014 01:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Madok
Messages:5
Registered:May 2014
How to install this?
I have:
-JA 2 gold
-1.13 1894 build
-Arulco Revisited v1.4 beta
-SDO_GameDir_r1894,AR+SDO_Default_Maps_GameDir_r1893,AR+SDO_Rnd_Item_Maps_GameDir_r1893

After instaling everything in this order,i have invisible Thigh Carrier Rig and invisible OMON Utility Vest in my IMP inventory and this make my game crash.
I'm missing something?I need detailed instalation guide,please.

[Updated on: Mon, 26 May 2014 01:18] by Moderator

Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #333122] Mon, 26 May 2014 02:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann

 
Messages:288
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
These two items link to images from stock 1.13, not from my mod. Have you downloaded a SCI (or updated with SVN) with the GameDir_1894?
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #333123] Mon, 26 May 2014 02:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Madok
Messages:5
Registered:May 2014
I dont know,this is full name of installed version 'SCI_Unstable_Revision_6692_on_GameDir_1894' from
http://kermi.pp.fi/JA_2/v1.13_Releases/Unofficial/English/Depri/SCI_113/

This file 'GameDir_1894' is something else i need?Where to get it?

[Updated on: Mon, 26 May 2014 02:45] by Moderator

Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #333131] Mon, 26 May 2014 11:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Madok
Messages:5
Registered:May 2014
Strohmann


[*]install ja2 and Arulco Revisited
[*]update the game files at least to gamedir r1842 with SVN or SCI
[*]download and extract AR_Compatibility (fitting exe is already included) in the game directory
[*]download and extract AR_RndItem_Maps in the game directory



First ja 2 and AR then gamedir r1842,now this works fine,thank you:)
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #333150] Mon, 26 May 2014 17:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
krux

 
Messages:62
Registered:June 2011
How about some information about the next version? When do you expect to release it? Any new features that you could mention?
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #333152] Mon, 26 May 2014 19:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann

 
Messages:288
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
Or you could just read the pm i send you from the 21.5. ... Smile
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #333185] Tue, 27 May 2014 12:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
krux

 
Messages:62
Registered:June 2011
oh! Didn't see that!
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #333187] Tue, 27 May 2014 12:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Aldo Raine

 
Messages:52
Registered:May 2014
There are plenty of files in your download folder - some of us may get confused. Which is which? I have latest SCI_GAMEDIR.

BUG REPORT:

I have I.M.P run out of energy at first drop off. Then after battle I made him rest, regains energy...then sudden lost of energy again...he was there...lying all the time. :crazy:

[Updated on: Tue, 27 May 2014 13:00] by Moderator

Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #333201] Tue, 27 May 2014 16:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann

 
Messages:288
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
Quote:
There are plenty of files in your download folder - some of us may get confused. Which is which?
Well, i thought the folder names in combination with the descriptions in this thread are pretty self-explanatory...

In the general folder JA1.13 the 3 last files at the bottom are the last release.
In the subfolder Misc are images, data files for individual persons etc., nothing directly related with the mod.
In the subfolder Outdated you find previous releases for archive purposes or if someone wants for some reasons play with older unstable revisions.
In the subfolder SDO Alpha Testing are the current files for the upcoming release, undergoing testing by a bunch of assigned people.

Quote:
I have latest SCI_GAMEDIR.
That doesn't help you, as the files in my mod overwrite the stock 1.13 files and "downgrade" it to a GameDir_1894 state. So either use the SCI_Unstable_Revision_6692_on_GameDir_1894 or sign in as a alpha version tester.

Quote:
I have I.M.P run out of energy at first drop off. Then after battle I made him rest, regains energy...then sudden lost of energy again...he was there...lying all the time. crazy
Please check his inventory for items with unusual high weight, it could be a borked installation.
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #333223] Wed, 28 May 2014 03:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Aldo Raine

 
Messages:52
Registered:May 2014
Thanks man...you were right about the inventory thing.
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #333776] Wed, 18 June 2014 15:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shank

 
Messages:12
Registered:April 2012
Hello Strohmann ! Excellent work. Using your SCI 7245 with AR, no problems so far. Well outside of balance issues. For convinience, I will put moments that I find for confusing/unacceptable in "(!)".

Eyerange of 400 meters (20) is unrealistic; original 260 meters, 13. (!)
Insane, Spooky, Premium load. Landed, immediately went crouch, crouched behind the bush, rotated, went prone. And was detected by an enemy through the window at 18 tiles range(!). Shot the guy in prone and missed (!), the other guy went running from the side house and kicked him into the guts putting it to the end(!)

Pretty similar history with Chechnya-veteran Kolesnikov with VSS(premium), despite that this time he was lucky enough to locate the enemy through the scope first at range of 25 tiles. He landed a 9x39 into enemy torso, but only injured him(!!). Knowing the previous lesson, Vitya run to and climbed the roof of next building, fully camoed (but still somehow at 31%(!) even though his helmet,vest and leggings were camoed) - hoping to crawl a few meters and tactically crouch up slowly to spot some heads. But to no avail, as "snapperheads" immediately fired a pistol round causing a veteran to piss his pants (!!), three times (!!!) and then a guy climbed up the roof and kicked him into the guts. Again.

I think, I need to do some personal changes here Smile)

Regarding the item balance on maps, I did a small debug run to H6 and discovered an enemy carrying an MG43 with iron sights of a type "you shouldn't be able to read this." aka empty.


I noticed I can't combine guile suit with helmet/armor. Why? :/ Has it stopped being just a bunch of bushes/synthbushes on a flexible wire?

I founded that SVD/SVUs migrated into rifles, SVU not accepting PSO-3 and true sniper optics(same dovetail mount as SVD) and Pecheneg is supposed to be lighter, faster firing and having an integrated barrel air-cooling that results in improved accuracy, much lower heating and reliability (.. not in this game Smile) compared to PKM (both also don't have optional folding stocks..?)

Also 762x54 AP/Match? There were lower quality 762x54R with some intended spread for machineguns
and sniper 7N14 (steel core/match powder) - which increase both penetration, range and accuracy; but the mentioned spread is pretty harming for them. This is quite different from 762x51 AP/Match uptake, don't you think?

Is firing CAWS really faster than AK-12 12/76?

Automag IV weights same as Automag V?

You (and team) did great work on scopes, maps, balance - at last there is some nice choice over very good maps, so I want to express big gratitude for your hard work!!
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #333779] Wed, 18 June 2014 21:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann

 
Messages:288
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
Hello.

Quote:
Eyerange of 400 meters (20) is unrealistic; original 260 meters, 13. (!)
Please elaborate, were is the context of realism between former and current sight range?

Quote:
And was detected by an enemy through the window at 18 tiles range(!)
Detection range for complete ghillie suit is 16 tiles, if you are lying completly in the open. So it sounds like the bush wasn't between you and the enemy and/or you weren't on a tile that provides 100% woodland camouflage.

Quote:
Shot the guy in prone and missed (!), the other guy went running from the side house and kicked him into the guts putting it to the end(!)
What's the point, that you didn't have a guaranteed hit?
I didn't touch stamina damage, so not related to this mod.

Quote:
He landed a 9x39 into enemy torso, but only injured him(!!).
Damage always was somewhat randomized. Nominal damage of the vintorez is 5 points higher, damage to flesh has a 0.8 multiplier now (compared to stock 1.13), so no drastical difference.

Quote:
[...]Vitya ran to and climbed the roof of next building, fully camoed (but still somehow at 31%(!) even though his helmet,vest and leggings were camoed)[...]
Who is Vitya, an IMP? 31% in SDO match 62% in Stock 1.13. The roofs in A9 mainly provide urban- and sometimes limited desert camouflage, did his armour have the matching camo types?

Quote:
But to no avail, as "snapperheads" immediately fired a pistol round causing a veteran to piss his pants (!!), three times (!!!)
Which experience level had he? Was he completly alone, were a deputy or squadleader in vicinity?

Quote:
Regarding the item balance on maps, I did a small debug run to H6 and discovered an enemy carrying a MG43 with iron sights of a type "you shouldn't be able to read this." aka empty.
Fixed, the enemies had no random item inventory in that sector.

Quote:
I noticed I can't combine guile suit with helmet/armor. Why? Has it stopped being just a bunch of bushes/synthbushes on a flexible wire?
Balancing reasons. You shouldn't be able to combine highest protection with highest camouflage, you now have to choose somewhat.

Quote:
I found that SVD/SVUs migrated into rifles[...]
Intended.

Quote:
[...]SVU not accepting PSO-3 and true sniper optics(same dovetail mount as SVD)[...]
Fixed, had wrong attachment point for sights.

Quote:
[...]Pecheneg is supposed to be lighter, faster firing and having an integrated barrel air-cooling that results in improved accuracy, much lower heating and reliability (.. not in this game Smile) compared to PKM[...]
Source on the weight differences? I read the pecheneg is heavier, the barrel already alone (well, not exactly 0.2 kg, changed to 8.7, pkm to 7.5 kg). Nominal firing rate seem to be 650/600 shots per minute, that doesn't justify a jump from 3 to 4 Autofireshots/5AP. Or have you other sources?
The Pecheneg has a sligthly higher cooldown factor (420 vs.400), is 4% more accurate, has lower recoil (3>9,5^/3>11,5^ vs. 3>10^/3>13,5^), but no barrel swap option.

Quote:
[...]both also don't have optional folding stocks..?[...]
In a quick internet search i found commercial offerings for folding stocks for the PK, seems not to far fetched.

Quote:
Also 762x54 AP/Match? There were lower quality 762x54R with some intended spread for machineguns
and sniper 7N14 (steel core/match powder) - which increase both penetration, range and accuracy; but the mentioned spread is pretty harming for them. This is quite different from 762x51 AP/Match uptake, don't you think?
There is no AP/Match ammo type for 7.62x54R or 7.62x51mm in SDO. Or do you want that i add one? Isn't that overkill? PKM and co. should already cut through everything with 47 damage/ 0.65 armour multiplier. As for the real life difference, i have no knowledge on the subject.
Quote:
Is firing CAWS really faster than AK-12 12/76?
I don't know, the first was only a prototype and the last only exists as a concept as far as i know.

Quote:
Automag IV weights same as Automag V?
I don't know, they are imported straight from Stock 1.13 without any weight changes. Do you have proposals for different weights?

[Updated on: Wed, 18 June 2014 22:31] by Moderator

Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #333780] Wed, 18 June 2014 22:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3756
Registered:July 2009
Strohmann
Quote:
Automag IV weights same as Automag V?
I don't know, they are imported straight from Stock 1.13 without any weight changes. Do you have proposals for different weights?
WorldGuns lists both of them as 1300g/1310g unloaded [1]. The Genitron database agrees with this figure [2],[3]. However, the Manuals state that the "complete pistol weight with 6.5in barrel" for the Automag IV is 1470g but confirms the ~1300g figure for the Automag V in the same configuration [4],[5]. So take your pick.


Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #333794] Thu, 19 June 2014 23:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shank

 
Messages:12
Registered:April 2012
Strohmann
Please elaborate, were is the context of realism between former and current sight range?

I suggest, vanilla setting does not let AI see every merc on the map. For example, 160/40(+)40=>1/2 vs 160/26(+)26.=>1/4 of map in each direction.


Quote:
Detection range for complete ghillie suit is 16 tiles, if you are lying completly in the open. So it sounds like the bush wasn't between you and the enemy and/or you weren't on a tile that provides 100% woodland camouflage.

From location where one is inserted, few tiles north-east, a bush and green grass.

Also, I tried following tactic several times: point insertion, immediate Z, immediate P. After just few turns an enemy comes. Perhaps its helicopter triggered?

Quote:
Quote:
Shot the guy in prone and missed (!), the other guy went running from the side house and kicked him into the guts putting it to the end(!)
What's the point, that you didn't have a guaranteed hit?
I didn't touch stamina damage, so not related to this mod.

The stamina is not questioned. Questioned was:
Spooky is holding an M4 carabine and shoots a guy 17 tiles away, aimed, and misses.

(BTW, Spooky has a macchete in his pocket. Refuses to put it back (premium load), says it doesn't fit anymore. Learned a trick from Magic. Jokes aside - definitely a small inventory bug.)

I also hired Lynx with G3 and scope, and he misses dearly everywhere, whilst being easily hit by enemy (I do switch magnification). One time an enemy shot full auto nearly across the screen (1024x768) in a pretty tight volley, whilst I had difficulty to hit anyone over 15 tiles (with G3).


I went further and hired Scope on Easy with M82; Z, C on drop, immediately went west behind fence and climbed the roof. Now she and the guy behind sandbags (with some pistol?) have been exchanging about 15 shots for quite some time. He was standing, when being fired on; she targeted head, a few tiles range - a head above sandbags vs SAS with M82:
http://i.imgur.com/zxL07pj.jpg

I don't understand - either I am not in sync with NCTH or NCTH is not in sync with logic.. Smile


I already had problematic sniping events in many previous 6xxx+WF+OCTH, for example right-most SAM in Wildfire maps, when approached from the SouthWest, an army sniper with SVD on a large roof covered with sandbags. But nothing unsolvable.

If I am doing something wrong, please advise..

Quote:
Damage always was somewhat randomized. Nominal damage of the vintorez is 5 points higher, damage to flesh has a 0.8 multiplier now (compared to stock 1.13), so no drastical difference.

Sir, one cant get *that* bullet into a stomach and live...

Quote:
Who is Vitya, an IMP? 31% in SDO match 62% in Stock 1.13. The roofs in A9 mainly provide urban- and sometimes limited desert camouflage, did his armour have the matching camo types?

Quote:
Which experience level had he? Was he completly alone, were a deputy or squadleader in vicinity?

Sorry, Vitya is a short name for Viktor, Kolesnikov, solo(because anybody else at Insanity is not in price). I never make IMP. The subject that I meaned was - with fully camoed armor and face, value 31% is pretty low, because practically from many previous games, anything below ~95% is not working as a camo at all. Please correct me, if I am wrong.
Regarding panics, that was ofc SUPPRESSION_EFFECTIVENESS=120, I am probably JAPTCT2M (just another person that considers that too much) Smile

Quote:
Fixed, the enemies had no random item inventory in that sector.

Thanks a lot!

Quote:
Balancing reasons. You shouldn't be able to combine highest protection with highest camouflage, you now have to choose somewhat.

Okay, I understand.

Quote:
I found that SVD/SVUs migrated into rifles[...]Intended.

Can you please explan a bit or point here? Those are DMR, but semiloading snipers.
I would actually move all bolt-actions to sniper and all semi to rifles, but as it is I don't understand the layout.

Quote:
Source on the weight differences? I read the pecheneg is heavier, the barrel already alone (well, not exactly 0.2 kg, changed to 8.7, pkm to 7.5 kg).

"an upgraded PKM, Pecheneg is slightly lighter.." So, I am not claiming Pecheneg should be lighter, its about description in Bobby Rays that its lighter.

Quote:
Nominal firing rate seem to be 650/600 shots per minute, that doesn't justify a jump from 3 to 4 Autofireshots/5AP. Or have you other sources?
The Pecheneg has a sligthly higher cooldown factor (420 vs.400), is 4% more accurate, has lower recoil (3>9,5^/3>11,5^ vs. 3>10^/3>13,5^), but no barrel swap option.

PKM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nH8fzQ8clX0
Pecheneg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3_pdOd5RcQ

Judging by overall strain, amount of casing/sec, size of boxes(100vs200), I'd claim about 1.4 faster, but the sense is that in RPM and barrel cooling Pecheneg > PKM by a lot, it was main reason for gun redesign.


Quote:
In a quick internet search i found commercial offerings for folding stocks for the PK, seems not to far fetched.

Please dump my stupid idea, folding stocks are only possible by way of disassembling the gun, so - not designed for that. Sorry.

Quote:
There is no AP/Match ammo type for 7.62x54R or 7.62x51mm in SDO. Or do you want that i add one? Isn't that overkill? PKM and co. should already cut through everything with 47 damage/ 0.65 armour multiplier. As for the real life difference, i have no knowledge on the subject.

I meant, that for 762x54 there is:
- 7H13/older 57-N-323S - which have hardened steel bullet *core* and are designed to spread a bit, and
- 7H14/older 7H1 - which is primary sniper ammo - hardened steel bullet with sharp tip, giving more penetration and less deviation
- and tracer ofc (incendiary and similar are out of scope)
there is no "match grade", compared to 762x51 afaik.

Quote:
I don't know, the first was only a prototype and the last only exists as a concept as far as i know.

Understood. I just compared their sizes visually and CAWS looks much heaver at least to aim (AP)...

Quote:
I don't know, they are imported straight from Stock 1.13 without any weight changes. Do you have proposals for different weights?

No, I just (again) from the looks of them, V version has a lengthier barrel.

What I also would like to ask is:
- SVDs has a folding stock (really folding, check link to picture below), why is ready AP equal to SVD?
- SVD and SVDs weights are nearly equal. English wikipedia seemed to more/less taken the data from this site: http://las-arms.ru/?id=74 and it reads(two tables):


Unfortunately, this forum was not upgraded to support Unicode (or compiled with Unicode support), so any russian-english string I enter, gets garbled on POST. I will try a picture trick:
http://i.imgur.com/XAlndu8.png / Tactic-technical data of SVD:
http://i.imgur.com/MuYg5GJ.png / Weight without magazine AND optics, kg 4,31

http://i.imgur.com/JAFq2me.png / Tactic-technical data of SVDS
http://i.imgur.com/2Ly9HuY.png / Weight without ammo, WITH OPTICS, kg 4,68

Also, from the SVDS section of the linked article, the SVDS barrel length was shortened,but made of thicker material to keep the accuracy and reduce size.

The internals were optimized and gas engine regulator was made obscolent (repair ease --?)

The folding stock was designed with keeping (in-)accuracy (connection hardness) in mind, so its claimed to have equal hardness/sturdiness as original wooden SVD.

And finally the "good" negative balancing aspect, SVDS initial bullet speed is a tad lower than of SVD:
SVDS: 820 m/s
SVD: 830 m/s
Means, range minus very few tiles?


- food is issued into inventory of hired mercs, if food system is off. Pretty sure its vanilla, but I have no idea how to escalate awareness of this issue up.

Thanks again!

[Updated on: Thu, 19 June 2014 23:48] by Moderator

Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #333795] Fri, 20 June 2014 00:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3756
Registered:July 2009
Shank
I went further and hired Scope on Easy with M82; Z, C on drop, immediately went west behind fence and climbed the roof. Now she and the guy behind sandbags (with some pistol?) have been exchanging about 15 shots for quite some time. He was standing, when being fired on; she targeted head, a few tiles range - a head above sandbags vs SAS with M82:
http://i.imgur.com/zxL07pj.jpg

I don't understand - either I am not in sync with NCTH or NCTH is not in sync with logic.. Smile
On that pic, you're way too close for such a high magnification optic, use iron sights.
Shank
Quote:
Damage always was somewhat randomized. Nominal damage of the vintorez is 5 points higher, damage to flesh has a 0.8 multiplier now (compared to stock 1.13), so no drastical difference.

Sir, one cant get *that* bullet into a stomach and live...
The human body can be remarkably resistant.


Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #333797] Fri, 20 June 2014 01:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shank

 
Messages:12
Registered:April 2012
DepressivesBrot
On that pic, you're way too close for such a high magnification optic, use iron sights.

Thanks for suggestion. Unfortunately, I can't remove battlescope in battle. Even with 100AP it says "Not enough action points".
http://i.imgur.com/oDd7tdH.png

Switching to iron sights ( "." key) does not work with this gun.

DepressivesBrot
The human body can be remarkably resistant.
http://spec-naz.org/armory/images/sp5_sp6_0.jpg
Both sniper and regular 9x39 variants include either core (tumbling) or a shim made of [color:#33CCFF]lead[/color] (cyan color on the picture) that are designed especially for huge wounds, should bullet land in organics. :/

Its spec-ops ammo, just saying...
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #333798] Fri, 20 June 2014 01:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Slax

 
Messages:1438
Registered:July 2006
Location: People riding polar bears...
Scope's too big. (NO, not the woman.) Can't see the sights. Remove the scope if you wanna use iron sights.

Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #333806] Fri, 20 June 2014 12:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3756
Registered:July 2009
Shank
Its spec-ops ammo, just saying...
You know what that tells us? Nothing. It's a buzz-word with zero informational value.
Shank
Both sniper and regular 9x39 variants include either core (tumbling) or a shim made of [color:#33CCFF]lead[/color] (cyan color on the picture) that are designed especially for huge wounds, should bullet land in organics. :/
You know what other bullet is designed to maximise tissue damage? All of them. We're talking about a relatively normal FMJ and a steel core AP round, neither type is inherently great at energy transfer so any neat tricks they pull are simply necessary to get good performance out of them.

You appear to suffer from several common misconceptions, namely that lethal is the same as immediately incapacitating and that there are magic bullets that are one-hit instakill on any torso hit. It isn't and there aren't*. Unless your one bullet hits something truly vital, like the brain or upper spine, there is a decent chance that sucker will shoot back. He likely won't survive the next couple minutes without medical attention, but that's rather cold comfort.




*At least not in the realm of small arms with conventional projectiles.


Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #333807] Fri, 20 June 2014 12:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:1278
Registered:December 2012
Location: South Urals
9x39 is relatively weak subsonic cartridge with energy about 700J, compared to about 2000J of 7,62x39. And it quickly looses speed (and energy) over distance, as all high caliber subsonic rounds.
It's also AP, designed to pierce armour and not to tear apart hippopotamus =)


Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #333809] Fri, 20 June 2014 13:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann

 
Messages:288
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
Shank
I suggest, vanilla setting does not let AI see every merc on the map. For example, 160/40(+)40=>1/2 vs 160/26(+)26.=>1/4 of map in each direction.
Strohmann, page 4 in this thread
The vanilla situation was that every(?) scope gave you a vision range bonus. So at some point in the game it came to "scope wars" during day; you were often just sitting and waiting for the enemy to charge into your increased field of view. Also i didn't like, that most (unscoped) weapons could immediately fire at targets, that just stepped into the default sight range; also the ratio possible distance traveled per turn to sight range.
The situation is now: spotting doesn't mean immediate engagement, at least in early phases of the game. Scopes with magnification lower than ~5.0 don't give vison range bonuses, so you are at equal footing with the ai most of the time. And you can't run as far you can see in one turn (unless ubermerc). I know the old maps are reaching their limits, but i can't do something about that.

Shank
From location where one is inserted, few tiles north-east, a bush and green grass.[...]Also, I tried following tactic several times: point insertion, immediate Z, immediate P.

Shank
After just few turns an enemy comes. Perhaps its helicopter triggered?
Yes.

Shank
Spooky is holding an M4 carabine and shoots a guy 17 tiles away, aimed, and misses.
NCTH policy is lowering the hit chance across the board compared to OCTH. I believe the creator's vision was something around 5% on average, in my mod i tracked 20-25% for the common shooter during the campaign according to the personnel manager.

Shank
BTW, Spooky has a macchete in his pocket. Refuses to put it back [Kit "High Cost"], says it doesn't fit anymore. Learned a trick from Magic. Jokes aside - definitely a small inventory bug.
The game seems to detect that the machete has itemclass 4 (Knife) and tries to put it into the default NIV knife pocket slot, disregarding the actual item size. I don't think i can fix this, as i'm no coder.

Shank
I also hired Lynx with G3 and scope, and he misses dearly everywhere, whilst being easily hit by enemy (I do switch magnification). One time an enemy shot full auto nearly across the screen (1024x768) in a pretty tight volley, whilst I had difficulty to hit anyone over 15 tiles (with G3).
15 tiles is too close for the Fero Z-24. Besides the G3A3 in this kit comes with 68% status, lowering accuracy significantly.

Shank
I went further and hired Scope on Easy with M82; [...] immediately [...] climbed the roof. Now she and the guy behind sandbags (with some pistol?) have been exchanging about 15 shots for quite some time. He was standing, when being fired on; she targeted head, a few tiles range - a head above sandbags vs SAS with M82:

I don't understand - either I am not in sync with NCTH or NCTH is not in sync with logic [...] If I am doing something wrong, please advise...
I don't get it, you post that screenshot ... and it plainly shows us a inner circle in the targeting aperture that is way bigger than the head, a red magnification that signalizes you are under the scope's minimum range (2.9x vs. 7x), all indicators that your shots won't likely conect at all... and then you're wondering why you don't hit anything?
Have you tried transforming the battle scope? The description i provided even spells out the minimum ranges for you.

Shank
Unfortunately, I can't remove battlescope in battle. Even with 100AP it says "Not enough action points". Switching to iron sights ( "." key) does not work with this gun.
Intended, you aren't supposed to be able to take of scopes in turn based mode, you have to rely on sidearms or other mercs (if the scope doesn't have iron/red dot sight switch options).

Shank
Sir, one cant get *that* bullet into a stomach and live...Both sniper and regular 9x39 variants include either core (tumbling) or a shim made of lead (cyan color on the picture) that are designed especially for huge wounds, should bullet land in organics.[...] Its spec-ops ammo, just saying...
JA2 uses a abstract hitpoint system, that can't be realistic. Beside that a extremly silent automatic gun with 4 Autofireshots/5AP that autokills with bodyshots is problematic from a balance perspective.

Shank
The subject that I meaned was - with fully camoed armor and face, value 31% is pretty low, because practically from many previous games, anything below ~95% is not working as a camo at all. Please correct me, if I am wrong.
Again, the values in Stock 1.13 are nominal higher, but they are capped/halfed with COVER_SYSTEM_CAMOUFLAGE_EFFECTIVENESS = 50; so 95% equals the 47.5% in SDO. The endgame layout

dyneema helmet with camo cover
zylon combat vest
zylon combat pants
wood camo kit

provides 40% woodland camouflage.

Shank
Can you please explan a bit or point here? Those are DMR, but semiloading snipers.
I would actually move all bolt-actions to sniper and all semi to rifles, but as it is I don't understand the layout.
There was a lack of non-automatic precision guns for mid- til late game, that weren't weapon type sniper rifle. Sniper rifles give default penalties of -4% snapshot and -6% to aiming cap, which are negated by marksman/sniper trait. Rifles only give a default 2%/3% penalty and are therefor easier to use by hunters/rangers and other non-snipers.

Shank
"an upgraded PKM, Pecheneg is slightly lighter.." So, I am not claiming Pecheneg should be lighter, its about description in Bobby Rays that its lighter.
I didn't have a look at the bobby ray descriptions and that's currently very low on my priority list, maybe some day.

Shank
Judging by overall strain, amount of casing/sec, size of boxes(100vs200), I'd claim about 1.4 faster, but the sense is that in RPM and barrel cooling Pecheneg > PKM by a lot, it was main reason for gun redesign.
I can increase the cooldown factor to 450, more i won't do for balancing reason. With overheating threshold 8500 and optics, that increase ap-cost, the gun shouldn't likely overheat that fast, even if there is no barrel swap option.

Shank
I just compared their sizes visually and CAWS looks much heaver at least to aim (AP)...
The bullpup configuration and the recoil-reducing operation mechanism are the reasons i gave the caws a 2 point lower ap-cost.

Shank
I meant, that for 7.62x54 there is: [...] 7H14/older 7H1, which is primary sniper ammo - hardened steel bullet with sharp tip, giving more penetration and less deviation [...] there is no "match grade", compared to 7.62x51 afaik.
So your point is, it's not technical match grade ammo, but it should retain the modifier (more penetration would be overkill imo)? Acknowledged, but also very low on my priority list.

Shank
What I also would like to ask is:
- SVDs has a folding stock (really folding, check link to picture below), why is ready AP equal to SVD?
- SVD and SVDs weights are nearly equal. [...]
[SVD weight empty ~3.93 kg]
[SVDS weight empty ~4.1 kg]
That difference doesn't justify changing the draw cost in my option.

Shank
The folding stock was designed with keeping (in-)accuracy (connection hardness) in mind, so its claimed to have equal hardness/sturdiness as original wooden SVD. [...] And finally the "good" negative balancing aspect, SVDS initial bullet speed is a tad lower than of SVD:
SVDS: 820 m/s
SVD: 830 m/s
Means, range minus very few tiles?
The SVDS is ~4.76% less accurate and has 35m less range.

On a side note, why are you trying to solo the game on insane? With NCTH and increased sight range that sounds like a recipe for desaster. How about an other approach, like hiring 3-5 cheap mercs for one day and heading to San Mona for cash from box fight and quests?

[Updated on: Fri, 20 June 2014 14:01] by Moderator

Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #334403] Mon, 21 July 2014 05:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sabresandy

 
Messages:65
Registered:February 2012
Just putting in my appreciation for the work you did here. SDO really helps with one of v1.13's bigger problems in gameplay--that is, the fact that the item progression and item gear choices really doesn't match up well with the new gameplay style, and I don't have the patience to go through the XMLs one by one.
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #334460] Tue, 22 July 2014 16:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann

 
Messages:288
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
The beta release is up, for installation instructions refer to the opening post.

Changelog:
  • mod folder structure changed for more modularity
  • WF 6.07 maps adapted for the purposes of this mod (fortification placement in any sector, map loot scaling with SDO-specific random items, helicopter landing zones etc.)
  • dozens of smaller item adjustments, some more item modularity options with receiver or barrel swap
  • AR/WF: delivery locations modified and/or added
Rape-thirsty tanks from the bug hell are now roaming the land; as default both ARMY_USES_TANKS_IN_ATTACKS and ARMY_USES_TANKS_IN_PATROLS are set to TRUE. If you don't think you can handle that, you should modify these settings.

[Updated on: Sat, 26 July 2014 00:04] by Moderator

Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #334483] Wed, 23 July 2014 10:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TheOmegaMan

 
Messages:14
Registered:November 2012
Sooo,

Can't get mod to work. 1.13 7337 works fine off latest SCI.

When I install the SDO, and try to run it via ini editor or JA2.exe The JA2 app opens and then closes itself after a few seconds, the screen never changes.

Earlier on another install attempt I get the following error: "jaggged alliance 2 has stopped working"

I tried the default install. windows 8.1. With and without compatibility fixes.

Install steps:
1. Clean ja 2 gold
2. extract latest SCI SCI_Unstable_Revision_7337_on_GameDir_2071
3. extract SCI_SDO_CoreMod_Revision_7337_on_GameDir_2074
4. run via ini editor.

Only the vanilla config files will start the game correctly.
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #334484] Wed, 23 July 2014 10:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
TheOmegaMan

 
Messages:14
Registered:November 2012
vfs config ja113+SDO_Default_Maps.ini does start correctly. (1 error about tactical interface settings upon startup) but the not default maps do not start up. I also tried extracting Arulco Revisited 1.4 but didn't help.
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #334485] Wed, 23 July 2014 12:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann

 
Messages:288
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
Hmm, can't really reproduce, but i don't have windows 8 at my disposal.

vfs_config.JA2113+SDO_Default_Maps.ini
JA2_7337.exe
Data-SDO\JA2_Options.INI


gives out the mentioned ini-error (somehow i missed to transfer that, i have the correct setting SHOW_HEALTHBARSOVERHEAD = 2 in my own ini >.<), but otherwise starts the game and loads the starting omerta map A9 correctly.

vfs_config.JA2113.ini
JA2_7337.exe
Data-1.13\JA2_Options.INI


starts without problems.

vfs_config.JA2Vanilla.ini
JA2_7337.exe
Data\JA2_Options.INI


gives out a dozen ini-errors (was seemingly never adjusted for all the new features), but otherwise starts without problems for me.

My SCI contains the same data from the official SCI, just without the Unfinished Business-stuff...

[Updated on: Wed, 23 July 2014 16:55] by Moderator

Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #334490] Wed, 23 July 2014 13:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:1278
Registered:December 2012
Location: South Urals
1. Will it work with the stable release?
2. Are the sight-blocking trousers still in? Smile


Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #334495] Wed, 23 July 2014 15:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann

 
Messages:288
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
1) No, 4870 is way too old.
2) Yes. Why, did you have a better idea in the mean time?
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #334496] Wed, 23 July 2014 15:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:1278
Registered:December 2012
Location: South Urals
I mean of course future 2014 stable release, which started at r7014 and is more or less compatible with the main trunk. So the question is - do you use some of the specific features that were changes since that time, or the mod will work with the stable build, too? (without moving tanks and such, of course)

UPD: seems to be working fine, at least I was able to start new campaign and win first battle. The only thing that needs to be changed is unsupported facility type (strategic militia command).

2. Don't have a better idea at the moment, but I hope that the problem with night camo will be solved finally some day Smile

[Updated on: Wed, 23 July 2014 17:01] by Moderator



Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #334497] Wed, 23 July 2014 15:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Strohmann

 
Messages:288
Registered:August 2011
Location: Division Thought Crimes
1) I haven't checked, but i'm not inclinded to make a compatible version, when the development continues anyway. Maybe i do so when the next stable release and a new Arulco Revisited Release both actually are published, but i give no guarantee.

2)Well, i'm no coder, so i can't do something about that. I have to work with what we have right now at our disposal.
Re: 1.13 Stock Data Overhaul[message #334608] Sat, 26 July 2014 14:35 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
knightofni

 
Messages:101
Registered:August 2011
Hi Strohmann,

I've been playing ar-sdo (AR+SDO_Revision_7337_on_GameDir_2074) on experienced difficulty, 8 mercs team size. Been until chitzena. Here's some feedback. Short version : having a blast.

It's only the early game, but so far combat is great. All weapons seem to have a use. Besides, combat is quite deadly. Mistakes are quickly punished by death, and combat feels much less random than vanilla.

It's the first time i use shotguns so much. Because combat is deadlier, their suppression effect becomes really useful. Though i feel their suppression effect is tad overstated, as it make a strange tactic work : provide 'covering fire' with a shotgun, while a guy with a 9mm weapon charges in for the kill (orfor the kick, if enemy has a cool weapon)

SMGs are really deadly at short to med range. A non prone guy will be lucky to survive two bursts.
And for the first time semi-auto rifles seem to have a use, especially in rural maps.

Scopes add a small, noticeable bonus, without being crazy effective. Until now, I ve only tried 2x and 3x, and i feel the bonus they give could be slightly better (a tiny little bit). Let's say that though i can see the improvement in aperture (with the . key), it doesn't make a significant difference in combat (for the 2x scope). I haven't used unscoped rifles to be able to comment. Ok, 3x & 5x scopes are definitely fine as is.

One thing that i've noticed (though i haven't thoroughly tested) is that weapons seem much more important than merc stats, at least at medium rang (10-20 tiles). A merc with really low stats (hector) didn't really have a worst apperture than Grunty, with similar 9mm weapons. That might because Hector lacks the experience to estimate his CTH properly, but in practice, he did hit quite often. I suspect that it comes from this 'iron sight bonus' that gets flat applied to anyone.

At longer range, the difference between good and bad mercs becomes much more pronounced.

Combat outcome is at the same time much more tactical, and much more reliant on sheer numbers than before. At equal numbers it is quite easy to win without taking damage. When the ai has 50% more men, it s still easy to win, but taking no damage becomes hard. I just did a battle against 15 ennemies (with 8 mercs) in a forest (much harder to find good cover compared to urban fighting !) and i won with 2 heavily wounded mercs (and would have had at least 2 deads without save scumming). This is still the early game, so my equipment isnt really better than the opposition, and my mercs themselves are not that good.

The queen has just sent an attack to retake Chitzena, and i'm unable to deal with it. 30 men and a tank. I didnt have any anti tank weaponry so i had to go back to san mona to buy a Rpg. But now that i m back to chitzena, i realize that the problem is not the tank, it's the 30 guys accompanying it. I ve only tried at night so far (as i have 3 night ops mecs) and it was a complete disaster (spotted before firing my first shot, couldnt even trade casualties 1 for 1). I m going to try again in a daylight attack, but i doubt the result will be much better.

So regarding this experience, i have several questions :
- I have very little experience with AR (never went further than chitzena with AR) but does SDO change any difficulty settings (i was under the impression than not)? Because i ve never seen such a big counter attack on chitzena (normally it s about 20 guys). The reaction was very fast too. Normally i have time to do one or two rounds of training, this time i couldn't complete one.

- considering how much more important are numbers in battle outcome, i guess the dca must become really hard. Before it was "get scopes for everyone, and keep moving". But somehow i feel this isnt going to be enough anyome. Have you (or someone else) managed to beat it with AR-sdo ? With what kind of tactics ?

- and more specifically to my current situation, how can i handle this Chitzena issue? As long as they stay grouped, this 30 soldier group isnt beatable with my current weaponry. The map is B1, there s many houses, it s quite hard to cover everything and stay mobile.
The only viable strategy i can imagine is disappear in the countryside, pay my mercs off sold weapons, and get better weapons by raiding sams sites / military bases. Anything smarter ?

[Updated on: Sun, 27 July 2014 01:16] by Moderator

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