Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » v1.13 General Development Talk » Announcement: LOBOT 3D
Announcement: LOBOT 3D[message #315232] Wed, 06 February 2013 21:51 Go to next message
Bio

 
Messages:62
Registered:April 2009
Location: Rhineland-Palatinate/Germ...
*Professor Farnsworth voice on*

Good news everyone!

Live-rendering is here!

I finally am at a state with my work, that I know for a fact that everything works as I was hoping it would. This is a major break-through!

There is still a lot of work to be done. But from here on there are no more show-stoppers.

Today was the first time I integrated all my development and was able to display a live-rendered animated model directly in the game.

A couple of weeks ago I migrated LOBOT to the current tip revision and got it to work again. Then I integrated my rendering solution. And today I finally got it all to work together.

A couple of technical details:

* The old layer-based LOBOT is still there.

* Pre-rendered LOBOT stuff will take preferance over live-rendered stuff in-game. That means if my algorithm matches a pre-rendered logical bodytype it will use that one. And only if none is found will look if there is a live-rendered one available.

* I seperated the actual renderer and the in-game logic. The actual renderer is a dll.

* My renderer implementation utilizes DirectX 9. However I created the interfaces in a way, that JA2 does NOT link against DirectX 9. That way if someone fancies to implement an alternative renderer (say OpenGL) that could be used without having to touch the JA2 code.

* I introduced JSON to the JA2 solution to save some time (didn't feel like writing expat xml parsing code).

* The old filter mechanism of LOBOT is used for the new live-rendering. So there is a very very powerful way of matching against all sorts of stuff (equipment and merc attributes)

* There are mechanisms in place to have dynamic textures.

* There are mechanisms in place for dynamically rendering meshes (not tested yet)

* Rendering will be done in 32 bit RGBA and then blitted with a new set of blitters. This is not implemented yet. Right now I quantize to 256 colors palette and ERLE encode on the fly. This mode will remain as an option (to use the dynamic skin/hair/clothing palette).

* In 32bit mode skin/hair/clothing coloring will be done via seperate sets of textures and using the filtering stuff (so the color info saved in the merc data will be disregarded).

* I'm using hardware rendering. My plan was to use software rendering. But that proved to be too slow (would only be able to live-render a couple of mercs in parallel). Software rendering will remain an option. Also there is going to be a caching mechanism (not implemented yet). On my very dated graphic card I can do more then enough renders per second. Though the color quantization right now is the bottle neck (will be done away with by using 32bit).

* Shadows are supported out-of-the-box
Re: Announcement: LOBOT 3D[message #315233] Wed, 06 February 2013 21:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bio

 
Messages:62
Registered:April 2009
Location: Rhineland-Palatinate/Germ...
Here is an exemplary configuration for the model I'm using for testing right now (note that this is not really "code" but a JSON configuration file used instead of an XML file):

// lobot3d
{
    "model_file" : "C:\\JA2\\3DModels\\Tiny\\tiny_4anim.x",
	"model_rotation" : [-90, 0, 180],
	"model_scale" : [0.005, 0.005, 0.005],
	"model_translation" : [0, 0, 0],
	"frame_format" : "RGB8",
	"palette_file" : "C:\\JA2\\3DModels\\Tiny\\palette.act",
	"filter" : "OnlyBlood",
    "lights" : [
		{"type" : "Ambient", "color" : [35, 35, 35]},
		{"type" : "Directional", "color" : [0.078, 0.078, 0.078, 1.0], "direction" : [135.198, -252.251, -103.986]},
		{"type" : "Directional", "color" : [0.078, 0.078, 0.078, 1.0], "direction" : [-3.233, -183.827, -109.838]},
		{"type" : "Directional", "color" : [0.078, 0.078, 0.078, 1.0], "direction" : [-75.204, -183.655, 129.396]},
		{"type" : "Directional", "color" : [0.078, 0.078, 0.078, 1.0], "direction" : [24.337, -124.381, 225.281]}
    ],
    "meshes" : [
		{"name" : "Mesh", "group" : "body", "filter" : "OnlyBlood"}
	],
	"texture_mappings" : [
		{"texture1" : "C:\\JA2\\3DModels\\Tiny\\tiny_skin.bmp", "texture2" : "C:\\JA2\\3DModels\\Tiny\\tiny_skin.bmp", "group" : "body", "filter" : "OnlyBlood"},
		{"texture1" : "C:\\JA2\\3DModels\\Tiny\\tiny_skin.bmp", "texture2" : "C:\\JA2\\3DModels\\Tiny\\tiny_skin (2).bmp", "group" : "body"}
	],
	"animations" : [
		{"name" : "Walk", 	"num_frames" : 12, "filter" : "OnlyBlood", "anim_surfaces" : ["RGMBASICWALKING", "RGMNOTHING_WALK"]},
		{"name" : "Jog", 	"num_frames" : 12, "filter" : "OnlyBlood", "anim_surfaces" : ["RGMRUNNING", "RGMPISTOL_RUN", "RGMNOTHING_RUN"], "period_offset" : 0, "period_length" : 0.25},
		{"name" : "Loiter", "num_frames" : 8, "filter" : "OnlyBlood", "anim_surfaces" : ["RGMSTANDING", "RGMNOTHING_STD"]}
	]
}



As you can see, there are tons of possibilities. I currently only use one filter "OnlyBlood" which is a LOBOT filter that simply matches against merc name "Blood".

[Updated on: Wed, 06 February 2013 22:03] by Moderator

Re: Announcement: LOBOT 3D[message #315234] Wed, 06 February 2013 21:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3540
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
While I do not understand everything you just wrote, still seems very awesome. Thank you very, very much!


Re: Announcement: LOBOT 3D[message #315235] Wed, 06 February 2013 22:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lockie

 
Messages:3819
Registered:February 2006
Location: Scotland
Uhh , yeah , what he said .... Smile


Re: Announcement: LOBOT 3D[message #315236] Wed, 06 February 2013 22:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shadow21

 
Messages:329
Registered:November 2001
Location: on route to San Hermanos
that sounds very promising!
:super: good job

[Updated on: Wed, 06 February 2013 22:25] by Moderator

Re: Announcement: LOBOT 3D[message #315240] Thu, 07 February 2013 00:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3518
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
Let's start with with the best news: Bio is back and kickin ass!

As for LOBOT 3D, this is bound to change JA2 forever. Enough said.

[Updated on: Thu, 07 February 2013 00:12] by Moderator



Re: Announcement: LOBOT 3D[message #315243] Thu, 07 February 2013 02:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The_Bob

 
Messages:415
Registered:May 2009
Location: Behind you.
This is awesome. Of course it would be even more awesome with some screen shots or a demo exe. But yeah, getting the game to work with 3d models is huge. Great work man, I'm looking forward to seeing this released.

edit:
Also, the fact you wrapped the animations into a tidy JSON format 1-ups the awesomeness of what you just did.

[Updated on: Thu, 07 February 2013 02:48] by Moderator


Re: Announcement: LOBOT 3D[message #315249] Thu, 07 February 2013 15:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Uriens

 
Messages:332
Registered:July 2006
If I understood this correctly, its really is a huge leap for JA2.
Thank you for this. :cheers:
Re: Announcement: LOBOT 3D[message #315250] Thu, 07 February 2013 15:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Uriens

 
Messages:332
Registered:July 2006
Uh, gotta ask few questions or I'm gonna burst.

Does this mean that JA2 is moving from STI format for item pictures and will be able to use bitmaps (or other more common format then STI)?
Will it be able to show bullet holes and wounds on actors and environment?
More compatibility with modern graphics card since it will use DirectX9?
No screen tearing effect when scrolling the map?

Yeah, I'm a n00b, and yeah, I'm very very excited about this. :super:
Re: Announcement: LOBOT 3D[message #315257] Thu, 07 February 2013 18:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The_Bob

 
Messages:415
Registered:May 2009
Location: Behind you.
AFAIK it's just for the character models right now, and it's done by rendering the graphics that would (normally) be taken from the STI and then plugging them into the otherwise unmodified game engine. As in, rendering them off-screen to a bitmap, converting to what the game engine can work with and passing on to be blitted like any other 2d sprite.

So it's not like the whole tactical view is being rendered in 3D, or the entire game getting a technology upgrade... yet.

But, once this new feature gets refined, it should be possible to tell the off-screen renderer what the character is wearing and where it got shot, so the details are visible on the resulting sprite. But that's just one awesome thing about what might be coming to JA2...

The other is the sheer variety of animations that will appear in the game. With actual 3D models in play, you only have to rig the animation once, and the game can render it for you using all three character models and all supported gun types and armor combinations. Of course you still have to go through the tedious process of tweaking the key-framed animation (unless you have motion capture equipment at hand), but not having to actually render the sprites yourself will be a huge relief to modders and artists.

Re: Announcement: LOBOT 3D[message #315359] Tue, 12 February 2013 20:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wanne (aka RoWa21)

 
Messages:1979
Registered:October 2005
Location: Austria
@bio: that sounds fantastic. any screenshots, videos or an executable file?


Re: Announcement: LOBOT 3D[message #315974] Tue, 05 March 2013 20:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shadow21

 
Messages:329
Registered:November 2001
Location: on route to San Hermanos
so are there any news to report? really looking forward to this one Very Happy
Re: Announcement: LOBOT 3D[message #316068] Fri, 08 March 2013 12:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The_Bob

 
Messages:415
Registered:May 2009
Location: Behind you.
It's been over a month (a short one, but a month still) since the announcement, I second the notion that an update is in order.

Re: Announcement: LOBOT 3D[message #317037] Thu, 04 April 2013 17:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shadow21

 
Messages:329
Registered:November 2001
Location: on route to San Hermanos
now it has been two month still no update Sad
Re: Announcement: LOBOT 3D[message #318887] Tue, 07 May 2013 15:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The_Bob

 
Messages:415
Registered:May 2009
Location: Behind you.
did he died?

Re: Announcement: LOBOT 3D[message #318962] Wed, 08 May 2013 00:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mauser

 
Messages:770
Registered:August 2006
Location: Bavaria - Germany
1. What

☆★GL★☆
Re: Announcement: LOBOT 3D[message #318967] Wed, 08 May 2013 00:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3540
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Eh... what?

1. If FC gets enough funding (which I hope), it'll still be years until the game is finished... even if it is as moddable as we all hope for, and modders jump on it, add quite a few months until it reaches comparable levels with 1.13. Are you suggesting all coders just drop dead and hide until Flashback is finished?

2. 'We' are individuals, who do whatever we feel right. It's not like anyone's resources but the modder's own (time) are 'wasted' on 1.13, are they?

3. LOBOT 3D will be one of the most awesome additions to 1.13 ever imho.

Also... I can't speak for Bio, but I am going to be royally pissed if someone suggested I should stop coding on 1.13 in my own free time and do something others deem more useful.


Re: Announcement: LOBOT 3D[message #318979] Wed, 08 May 2013 02:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Scheinworld

 
Messages:973
Registered:December 2007
Location: Baltic Sea, Germany
Mauser
[...] but shouldn

[Updated on: Wed, 08 May 2013 16:36] by Moderator



Re: Announcement: LOBOT 3D[message #318980] Wed, 08 May 2013 02:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
grim

 
Messages:349
Registered:July 2006
Location: France
I was going to post similar answers, Flugente. I'm totally with you on this.

JA2 and JAF are two different things. They will cohexist for a long time, and i hope modders will work on them as long as they feel so.

As for Bio and Lobot 3D, I don't know their status. All we have is here. Life can be a time sink!
Re: Announcement: LOBOT 3D[message #318981] Wed, 08 May 2013 02:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3518
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia

Whoa, stop it all of you.

1. I gave Mauser the badge. He did enough leg work for SMP to earn it.
2. Nobody will stop modding 1.13. Or SMP. Or tell you what to mod or not.
3. LOBOT 3D is the best news we've had in a long while and I hope for God's sake Bio is fine and will come back to update it.

If JA:F gets done as they say, fine, there will be a new toy in the bin. But's that's far off, even if they get the funding. 1.13 has been the bread and butter of this community and nobody will forget that. Cause I won't let them.

I'd suggest everyone calm down and go take a nap.



Re: Announcement: LOBOT 3D[message #318982] Wed, 08 May 2013 03:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CapnJack

 
Messages:56
Registered:June 2012
It does seem a bit premature to assume that Flashback will reach the mod capabilities and flexibility of 1.13 considering all the time put into the 1.13 project. Not to mention all of the great 1.13 mods that will remain.
Re: Announcement: LOBOT 3D[message #318984] Wed, 08 May 2013 04:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mauser

 
Messages:770
Registered:August 2006
Location: Bavaria - Germany
Allright, allright, i take everything back, forget what i wrote.

Sheesh, i never wanted to tell anyone here what to do for 1.13, especially not adding awesome new features still, or that, god forbid, the community should abandon working on 1.13 alltogether.
It just amazes me to which lengths some lone wolf modders here still go, to hack that old heap of code into doing new flashy tricks.

I merely wanted to suggest that we currently have a shot at something that would give us a brand new engine with appropriate tools to work with and the potential realize all modding ambitions, which probably could make the whole SMP project more or less unnecessary. And maybe all able experts would profit from shifting their attention to that new perspective for the time being.
After all, if it fails, then there

☆★GL★☆
Re: Announcement: LOBOT 3D[message #319013] Wed, 08 May 2013 16:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Scheinworld

 
Messages:973
Registered:December 2007
Location: Baltic Sea, Germany
Hello,

Sorry, if my last message sound a bit too harsh, but the imagination that any (new) work for JA2/v1.13(mod) development could be a "waste of time" or should even be stopped and talking about JA:F as "a proper moddable Jagged Alliance" at the same time opened the Pandora's box for me. I removed the personally-offending notes of my last message. You can do the same if you want.


Mauser
Well Scheinworld, maybe you forget that it was in fact i, who suggested the creation of the SMP project in the first place? Granted, i wasn


Re: Announcement: LOBOT 3D[message #319059] Wed, 08 May 2013 20:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pheloncab

 
Messages:281
Registered:August 2004
Location: So. Cal. or texas
From my perspective as a reader of posts and not someone active in the DEV community, I figured to toss in my observation.

I've liked the Idea of SMP since i first saw the topics here on the forum, however for every step forward that seemed to happen, the 1.13 releases seemed to be 10 steps ahead.

While I would love to see a stable modding platform to allow the Mod makers something relatively bug free to work from, doing so at the cost of not having enough features to make the Mod worth doing ends up defeating the purpose.

the latest Mods I have seen discussed include things like.. Zombies or aliens, all of which require code changes that SMP doesn't seem up to providing.

Perhaps the better concentration of effort would be to do a once a year bug hunt to stabilize 1.13, and help remove old bugs that end up forgotten or bandaided.
Re: Announcement: LOBOT 3D[message #319063] Wed, 08 May 2013 20:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3518
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
SMP concept allows implementing any sort of new features. But the core elements always remain stable.
As a mod maker you create your campaign, your mercs, your quests and desired features as a "pack" (i hate the word DLC) and any player who has downloaded and installed SMP can download & plug-in your mod and play without any fuss. At any given point you could have like 10 mods to play, all running on same core platform.

It's not reinventing the wheel. It's just something JA2 lacks.

[Updated on: Wed, 08 May 2013 20:23] by Moderator



Re: Announcement: LOBOT 3D[message #319177] Thu, 09 May 2013 15:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The_Bob

 
Messages:415
Registered:May 2009
Location: Behind you.
It's quite common to code for older, seemingly obsolete titles, just for the fun and challenge of it. Also, it is a great exercise in programming, whether you tidy up the old code or manage to work around its quirks.

Other than obvious examples of projects based around the Doom or Quake engines, there still are projects focusing on Tyrian or Abuse. Having a (relatively) big player base like 1.13 sure helps motivate coders and modders, but even if JA:F stole 90% of the audience, there still would be people willing to improve the original JA2 (me included) just for the fun of it.

Also, 1.13 is far from obsolete. I'm quite certain it is the most complex (and cluttered) game of its kind right now, setting the bar so high it is pretty much a class of its own. Making it look better would only enforce that position.

Which is why I'm relentlessly bumping this thread on a monthly basis.

Re: Announcement: LOBOT 3D[message #319178] Thu, 09 May 2013 15:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3518
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia

BTW: FC is still looking for more modders (read: coders) to join their Advisory Panel. In case you're interested or know a coder who might be drop me a PM and I'll forward their names to JAFTeam.

Or in other words "it's always smart to know what the enemy is planning, comrade" Smile)


Re: Announcement: LOBOT 3D[message #321091] Tue, 28 May 2013 20:49 Go to previous message
Mauser

 
Messages:770
Registered:August 2006
Location: Bavaria - Germany
Alright guys, JA:F is funded and will begin development soon. Many modders are already on board of the advisory panel, whilst Bio remains absent i assume? How many of our most experienced and productive modders and coders are currently still working on SMP and groundbreaking features like this?

☆★GL★☆
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