[color:#CC0000]Nobody, but absolutely nobody is entitled to lecture us on what JA is. We put into it year after year after year of our lives. We never asked for a cent in return. And nobody is entitled to weight our faith in JA by asking us to put down the money where our mouth is. That's downright insulting. YOU have everything to prove, not us. [/color]

Show us your "assets" that make you capable of doing a JA with $350k. Anything but 3 pictures and some vague promises.

PR is PR.
Marketing is Marketing.

In life you have two options. Trust the shiny neon signs. Or ask what's behind them. I always go for 2nd option. I am a journalist turned gamer turned sysadmin turned entrepreneur. I made smoke, I packaged smoke and I sold smoke. Smoke doesn't impress me.

Kickstarter, you know, is just a contract of faith. They're not bound by anything but promises. Once they got our money, they can do whatever they want. And that isn't necessary what you or me want. And gaming companies usually have thick skins, it's a world where EA is the king and we know what EA is and does. If you do not get them to do it the right way BEFORE they get the money, you failed.

Answer me this, you dear and generous and so faithful. The backers put their money into this. The modders offer their expertise. The community offers them trustworthyness and a status. What are they putting upfront? Promises?

Where is the fair deal in that?

I am going to be ignoring this until the updates on the KS page show they're willing and able to do this properly. So far they don't seem to have much of a clue what they're heading into. Prove me wrong, FC, for God's sake. Make me sorry I ever raised an eyebrow. Please. But do it by showing us exactly what your plan is. Show us your "assets" that make you capable of doing a JA with $350k. Anything but 3 pictures and some vague promises.

• 1. They need an good turnbased Engine.
• 2. Good artwork and story telling.
• 3. Work with the community
• 4. Work with the old boys and key modders
• 5. Make modding as part of the game.
• 6. Be in love with Jagged Alliance further understanding what makes Jagged Alliance so great.
• 7. Are independent and not ruled by, as you said an EA kind of Publisher

Shanga

Show us your "assets" that make you capable of doing a JA with $350k. Anything but 3 pictures and some vague promises.

thats a valid point. if they have those assets they should be able to show them. be it a sector map, weapon renders, animations anything.

So, looking at their setup and yours, why should I support you? I want to, I really, really do. But if you were in my shoes and looking at your KS drive, knowing the history of JA and the failures since JA2 ... would you or any of your team support your own KS drive?

I agree with Shadow21, most of us are old-ish now and money isn't such a big deal. 5 bux is what I spend on lunch every day, so putting that into something like this is not big deal. I plan to give more of course, once I get a better idea of the possibilities for this game to be good enough.

So, looking at their setup and yours, why should I support you? I want to, I really, really do.

R@S

I agree with Shadow21, most of us are old-ish now and money isn't such a big deal. 5 bux is what I spend on lunch every day, so putting that into something like this is not big deal. I plan to give more of course, once I get a better idea of the possibilities for this game to be good enough.

I bought freaking BIA. Of course it's not about the money.

It's about giving trust and endorsement and receiving something in return. I can only hope I made my point. Back to mumbling silently now.

1. Crafting Items:
They write its not in the core game for the 350.000, instead of this they want concentrate on the story/campagn first.

- 350.000 is a low budged, they have to pay more then just a team of ~12 people for arround 1 1/2 year maybe. So they have to make hard choices, thats also important that they not run into the trouble that they overtake themself to much from the start up.
Story/campagn/gameplay - is the main thing, and after that i am sure they want craftable items like we want, and thats what i read.
Finish the basics, then the rest. Good choice and a honest answer in my eyes.

3. About the drugs thing:
Don't get your point in that Shanga, whats the problem with the 10,000$ pledge?
It just says there is one KingPin, maybe we can kill him and run the brothel ourself? Confusing.

4. recognize Unarmed
Well he wrote, "if you are hostile to them, enetering one of their domains..", speaks not against neutral places where you shoud been unarmed, an vague answer. And generic system never sounds good.

scope100

1. Crafting Items:
They write its not in the core game for the 350.000, instead of this they want concentrate on the story/campagn first.

- 350.000 is a low budged, they have to pay more then just a team of ~12 people for arround 1 1/2 year maybe. So they have to make hard choices, thats also important that they not run into the trouble that they overtake themself to much from the start up.
Story/campagn/gameplay - is the main thing, and after that i am sure they want craftable items like we want, and thats what i read.
Finish the basics, then the rest. Good choice and a honest answer in my eyes.

2nding this. Furthermore, "crafting items" is a wide field to ask for. Just imagine, the one asking the question was thinking of things like "barrel extender" from vanilla JA2 (which find quite a few fans of realistic game play quite ridiculous, anyway) - the one being asked thinks something like "merging 'mine craft' into JAF?"
And yes, with the HQ thingie they intend, some serious crafting system can be invented later on.

Beside that, Elite and those other remakes never had the failure history JA has. And so many broken promises.

And despite all that, I am to trust AGAIN in nice words?

Shanga

And despite all that, I am to trust AGAIN in nice words?

Yes you should, because this time it's different, I hope you can see this somewhat.

Because Danes are good people

I think FC are opportunists. In one sense. I think they very much lucked into acquiring this license from BitComposer, and snapped up the opportunity like a trout taking a fly.

The difference between the JAF kickstarter and the other ones is that they don't already have the game half-designed before they started the KS. And this is what is pissing off a lot of people -- apparently Shanga among them -- that they are asking for support before they've produced anything. I can understand why they wanted to do that, bacause as Javier pointed out, the studio needs to have another project in the pipeline to keep everybody eating while production of Space Hulk finishes. Hell, isn't Inxile doing the same thing? Wasteland 2 hasn't even reached a playable alpha yet, but they funded a whole new project already. Of course, they have the rep to pull that off, whereas FC are unknown. But it is proper, sound business practice.

But everybody keeps asking for hard data when there isn't any yet in place. This KS has begun in pre-production. All they have are ideas, and they want to involve the community to see which ones work, and which ones don't, and maybe to garner a little love for the project along the way. I wonder, in re the Kickstarter, not if it is financially what they expect/hope for, but rather if the storm of controversy (and sometimes outright hostility!) they've stirred up surprises them. It kind of surprises me, but I guess a lot of people are blaming FC because BitComposer killed their puppy.

An old friend of mine, now dead alas, was fond of reminding me that "timing is everything." While it may have made business sense to start the KS now, the timing may have been a bit off. Setting aside all the other Kickstarters that have drained the wallets of contributors, proposing the game in pre-production probably was a mistake. Especially in light of how BitComposer screwed the pooch over BIA, people need to see concrete proof that this game will fulfill its promises. Once burned, twice shy and all that. It would be sad, though, wouldn't it, if this Kickstarter failed because BC wanted to involve the community from the beginning?

What bothers me the most about the people who won't support the Kickstarter yet, though, is this implicit attitude of "Nah, I'm too smart to fall for that shit." They'd rather be right, than blow a small piece of change on the chance that FC can deliver what we all want. Enough of that, and this Kickstarter will fail, and then those who refused to contribute can wrap themselves in their smug sanctity and tell us all they told us so.

-- Mal

[*] 6. Be in love with Jagged Alliance further understanding what makes Jagged Alliance so great.

@malthaussen - we can only hope InXile will be a model for FC regarding both the way they involve the community and the material the put up on KS to attract pledges. If they managed to get 60k+ backers they must've done something right, no?

Hell, isn't Inxile doing the same thing? Wasteland 2 hasn't even reached a playable alpha yet, but they funded a whole new project already.