Home » FULL CONTROL GAMES » JA: Flashback (Solutions. Tips. Spoilers!) » Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318105] Sat, 27 April 2013 19:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oilystool

 
Messages:25
Registered:April 2013
Location: Copenhagen
cred
hello everyone, i finally did register on this board after the excitement with the kickstarter.

Javier
Artistically, the goal will be to make a Jagged Alliance that has both upgraded graphics and carries on the spirit of older JA titles. But most importantly we would really like to hear from the community about what they envision a new Jagged Alliance game will look like.

it

[Updated on: Sat, 27 April 2013 19:53] by Moderator

Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318106] Sat, 27 April 2013 23:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Majek

 
Messages:441
Registered:January 2003
Location: Slovenia
Shanga
Considering the is actually a "prequel" of the original story all mercs should be very young, right? AIM was there in JA1 so ... better bring some sexy back.

So Pops, Moses, Samuel,... in their prime? Very Happy
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318107] Sat, 27 April 2013 23:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JAFTeam

 
Messages:157
Registered:April 2013
Who knows, who knows?
What we can already say is that of course not all mercs will be back. Some of them would be too young. However, we're talking about the late 80s. And we have some interesting twists prepared already. Plus this setting gives us the opportunity to introduce new mercs (of whom some might survive or not, and that's quite a thing).
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318108] Sat, 27 April 2013 23:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gambigobilla

 
Messages:714
Registered:July 2008
This also means some guns hasn't produced yet. Including my beloved P90.
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318109] Sat, 27 April 2013 23:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3747
Registered:July 2009
Don't worry Gambi. If they come through with easily accessible files, then I give it a month for someone to add everything noteworthy from the venerable Mauser to M41A Pulse Rifle.


Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318111] Sun, 28 April 2013 00:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gambigobilla

 
Messages:714
Registered:July 2008
Of course as long as it's modable i have no worries. I just can't play without my P90 and Babydoll.
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318112] Sun, 28 April 2013 00:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3482
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Which gives us one important clue... if this should be open the modders (which it should), then they need to be able to create new items, maps etc. - which should also include new mercs imho. This would then require modders to be able to come up with new faces - so 2d like the current ones are very likely the right choice.

Please, I have no idea on how you will be storing pictures, but please, make it easier maintainable than STI-files.


Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318116] Sun, 28 April 2013 04:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
malthaussen

 
Messages:91
Registered:January 2005
Location: Philadelphia
I never thought the animations Sir-Tech used on their portraits in JA2 and Wiz8 added much to the game, and they made it unnecessarily hard to replace them with our own choices. The 8-bit color didn't help any, either.

I'd be perfectly happy with good, static 2-D mug shots that are in an easily accessed form. Since it is highly likely that I will want to replace a few pix, of the IMP chars at least.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it? So there's no need to jazz up the portraits. Easy.

-- Mal
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318118] Sun, 28 April 2013 04:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mauser

 
Messages:772
Registered:August 2006
Location: Bavaria - Germany
Javier
Thanks for your response

On the contrary, thanks for yours!
Here in the BP we like to cultivate a respectful, mature and constructive discussion culture, for the most parts.

Quote:
I'm frankly amazed the game looked as good as it did, at the time we had art management issues and 50% of the way through production we had to redo the art most of the game and try to get it to a shape that was presentable, what saved it was good presentation which made you focus on the game as a whole as opposed to each individual asset.


Well, considering the quality of the finished product, that was quite some feat of skillful project management and emergency fixing.
Such examples are indicative of a developer/director with the necessary skills to pull off even difficult projects and deliver quality in the end.
Makes one quite confident for the fate of JA:F.

Quote:
On Jagged Alliance I plan on setting up artistic and organizational standards for all the artist so we don't waste time redoing work and we can focus more on making all of the art look good and consistent.


its the best thing you could do to prevent most organizational failures from the very beginning. A consistent art style is crucial for the right JA feel and one of the major factors for the success for the series. Everything just looks and "feels" right and everything somehow comes together into one single great experience. That

☆★GL★☆
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318131] Sun, 28 April 2013 15:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
R@S

 
Messages:134
Registered:July 2004
Location: Sweden
It would be nice if the core elements were dynamic and flexible, like the AP system. The more AP's you have available at each turns, the more you can tweak different actions to make it more tactical. Just think about a simple function like raising a gun, that should depend on weapon length and weight, and character STR, DEX and AGI. If you don't have enough AP's per turn, most weapon will cost the same, making choosing the right weapon for the right role unimportant. The same goes for recoil, weapon balance should be part of the AP cost. This is one of the more important additions in the 1.13 mod, having a 100AP round instead of a 25AP round. So when I say dynamic and flexible, have these things in mind when scripting it. Even if you don't have much time to balance this during development, the community loves to do this stuff and having the variables easily available will be important. Each gun should have a wide variety of settings, not just damage, weight, AP cost and range.

Another part where you should consider a dynamic approach is the ammunition. Please don't make it hard for the modders to add some depth here, like being able to load both HP and AP rounds in a magazine. You know, like having a broader TYPE like 5.56x45 and 7.62x51 which is used by the weapons, and then another sub TYPE for the magazines, like AP, HP and FMJ or whatever.

Map size should vary, urban sectors should be smaller(due to computer limitations) since they are about CQB tactics. But rural sectors should be large so the player can take advantage of having snipers, spotters and machine gunners in their squads. They shouldn't just be wide open spaces, there need to be some choke points where you can set up kill zones, and elevated positions for your sniper.

I have a gazillion ideas and suggestions for you, and once you get the forum colors in better shape I'll start posting them there Razz

EDIT: These suggestions might look obvious to you, but after the BiA "incident" it's best to not take anything for granted Wink

[Updated on: Sun, 28 April 2013 16:03] by Moderator

Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318133] Sun, 28 April 2013 16:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peal

 
Messages:259
Registered:August 2007
Location: Germany
R@S
The more AP's you have available at each turns, the more you can tweak different actions to make it more tactical. Just think about a simple function like raising a gun, that should depend on weapon length and weight, and character STR, DEX and AGI. If you don't have enough AP's per turn, most weapon will cost the same, making choosing the right weapon for the right role unimportant.

Yes, 100Ap might sound unsexy or even poor designed, but it is quite the opposite. Like R@S said, everything becomes more important and you have to consider much more tactical depth.


Also the AI. Please consider to make an different AI for each enemy class. Also only 2-3 Enemy classes are very boring in the long term. So here hopefully some inspiration:

  • Biker/Gangster
    should use Monotov Coktails, Meele Weapons. They should always try to get into the meele combat. Also heavy use of shotguns. Berserker sprints, and strength based moves, like body-checks, jumps into meele, fistfight and so on.
  • Smuggler/Thiefs
    There could be a class which tries to escape from the sector, but if you catch them, you get plenty of stuff. Also there could be civilians trying to steal from you. A Smuggler could also like to trade with you. If you kill him, other smugglers are not likely to trade with you again. Also there could be a Thief / Smuggler guild
  • Bodyguards
    Important NPC or Enemy types even a smuggler or thief could be guarded by bodyguards. They should have an own AI for Combat, saving the VIP. Most likely heavy protected.
  • Rebels/Militia
    Should be fighting with guerilla tactics, also using traps, hit and run. The training level of your own Militia should be represented by an AI layer like using Elite tactics in the End. Very important is the group movement, they should be covering each other using suppression fire while trying to take your flank.
  • Boss
    Like an squad-leader, there could be bosses for each type of enemy. But pls consider them to be more trained and better armed, rather than just +1000hp. A Fat Biker Boss even walks cocky and yells at you. A good feature for the atmosphere would be a squad leader giving commands, you can hear him, or if you see him, he should be animated like over watching the battlefield.
  • Elite
    An Elite Enemy should not only be better equipped, they also should use special tactics. Using smoke and blend grenades. Also there could be special moves like sliding into cover.
    An elite enemy group should act like an well trained swat team, and should not run like any other enemy like retards into your over watch.
I don't see anything AI related in your stretch goals! Please don't underestimate this part of the game. In space Hulk you talk about playing against an Human Player, hopefully you can expand this into JAF

[Updated on: Sun, 28 April 2013 17:00] by Moderator

Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318134] Sun, 28 April 2013 16:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2005
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
About "realtime until enemy spotted":
Please, PLEASE, do a better path finding in real-time as in JA2! A dream would be, if player could assign some sort of formation to the squad or set at least some way points ...
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318135] Sun, 28 April 2013 17:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Vortexdr

 
Messages:57
Registered:April 2013
Agreed I personally wold love to hear more about AI as that is one of the harder things to mod.
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318139] Sun, 28 April 2013 17:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
grim

 
Messages:341
Registered:July 2006
Location: France
I want to add my voice to Peal's and Vortexdr's for the Artificial Intelligence. Please talk about it, put some (a lot of) effort in it, and eventually add stretch goals for it if needed.

I second Peal for a personnalised AI. Different behaviors and styles matching the factions would be great! Give the ennemy an identity, character, and each individual a r
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318143] Sun, 28 April 2013 18:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
feynman

 
Messages:38
Registered:October 2010
Quote:
Try to make the AI behave similar to what you guys would do if you were in their position.

Unfortunately, programming computers so that they do pass the Turing Test has turned out to be rather difficult. And while I'm sure that the programmers at TC are capable, they won't change that.

Quote:
I second Peal for a personnalised AI. Different behaviors and styles matching the factions would be great! Give the ennemy an identity, character, and each individual a r
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318144] Sun, 28 April 2013 19:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
R@S

 
Messages:134
Registered:July 2004
Location: Sweden
feynman
Quote:
Try to make the AI behave similar to what you guys would do if you were in their position.

Unfortunately, programming computers so that they do pass the Turing Test has turned out to be rather difficult. And while I'm sure that the programmers at TC are capable, they won't change that.
I was thinking of things in some tactical situations, not over all AI. If one enemy is using a car for cover, and another enemy comes to use the same cover, have one of them move up towards the player while the other saves his points for an eventual interrupt(Maybe the one with the highest Reaction stat).

My general idea of an AI was to make the game difficulty a part of their selection of routines, as apposed to the more common method of using more and better equipped enemies.

The rest of your post brings up some interesting points, and I'm glad to report that the Unity engine have some really great script possibilities when dealing with world objects. I think FC even mentioned they had a way to easily use a cover system that took into account a 3d setting.


Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318145] Sun, 28 April 2013 19:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
grim

 
Messages:341
Registered:July 2006
Location: France
Quote:
I second Peal for a personnalised AI. Different behaviors and styles matching the factions would be great! Give the ennemy an identity, character, and each individual a r
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318146] Sun, 28 April 2013 19:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3747
Registered:July 2009
Oh, one big wish from me:
Do not, under any circumstances, introduce axe wielding maniacs in full Kevlar+ armor as a standard enemy type. It's retarded.


Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318147] Sun, 28 April 2013 19:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Cerhio

 
Messages:111
Registered:March 2013
Don't mean to interrupt the ideas but I just wanted to say I'm ecstatic that the developer of JAF is participating here. The incredibly loyal fanbase has created a game I can barely put down. If JAF can replicate even a handful of these features, I might actually try another game for once lol
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318148] Sun, 28 April 2013 20:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
R@S

 
Messages:134
Registered:July 2004
Location: Sweden
DepressivesBrot
Oh, one big wish from me:
Do not, under any circumstances, introduce axe wielding maniacs in full Kevlar+ armor as a standard enemy type. It's retarded.
I second that, with an addendum. If anyone requests zombies, ban them immediately! That *expletive* has no place in a tactical game, and anyone with a working(adult) brain can figure out how silly fighting zombies would be in a game of this type. Sure, it sounds kewl, but just think how tedious it would be after 20 minutes of playing. (sorry if I offended anyone, but seriously, think about it)
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318149] Sun, 28 April 2013 20:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3747
Registered:July 2009
No know we have a zombie mod, right? Very Happy
But yeah, keep it real and focus on the important stuff.


Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318150] Sun, 28 April 2013 20:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
R@S

 
Messages:134
Registered:July 2004
Location: Sweden
DepressivesBrot
No know we have a zombie mod, right? Very Happy
Yeah, it was why I added the sorry part at the end. Razz

Flugente did add some other stuff much more useful in this type of game tho, and he made the zombie stuff optional, so I forgive him for that Very Happy
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318151] Sun, 28 April 2013 20:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3747
Registered:July 2009
We make everything optional, that's the whole premise of the project.


Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318153] Sun, 28 April 2013 21:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
R@S

 
Messages:134
Registered:July 2004
Location: Sweden
DepressivesBrot
We make everything optional, that's the whole premise of the project.
I find it amusing that someone as "young" as you feel the need to lecture me about the spirit of the 1.13 project. Especially considering the fact that I have been a member here 5 years longer than you Smile

But enough joking around, maybe we should get back on topic.
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318154] Sun, 28 April 2013 21:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3747
Registered:July 2009
I haven't checked your registration date. And the first time I've seen you posting here was around the time BiA was released.
Also, in that case you should know that every thread must be hijacked at some point Razz


Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318155] Sun, 28 April 2013 22:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peal

 
Messages:259
Registered:August 2007
Location: Germany
1. Oh yes I remember the discussions at the BIA forum where I had to argue against R@S and his support for plan&go grrrr, those 7.62 folks ... Smile so Brot has all the right to lecture you about JA my friend Wink
2. Brot is 1000% more 1.13 than you R@S
3. But R@S is awesome, he is a good modder! So everybody is cool except me, I'm a nobody and I should be quiet when the big boys are talking. Because it's out of my payroll, right Brot? lol...

[Updated on: Sun, 28 April 2013 22:35] by Moderator

Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318157] Sun, 28 April 2013 23:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
R@S

 
Messages:134
Registered:July 2004
Location: Sweden
I never claimed I knew more about jagged alliance than DB does, I only challenged his assumption about me. I've probably put as many man hours playing Jagged Alliance as most of the old timers here have, and the assumption that I haven't has always miffed me. Since I'm known for my work on an RTwP game, that can be understood and sometimes excused Wink

This thing people have about either loving TB or RTwP is a mystery to me, why the need to pigeon-hole people? To me that's secondary to tactical depth, which is what I find most enjoyable when playing. BiA didn't fail because it wasn't TB, it failed because it lacked tactical complexity on so many levels. It was the lack of any stealth options, and the weapon and battle system was below par as well, that made it a failure. If CorePlay had another year to work on it, and an interest in making a deep tactical game, it could have been a success, at least in my eyes.

It's hard judging FC right now, they give a lot of lip service to gather support for their Kickstarter, but I have hope. If they don't deliver, I have another thing I can go back to, as this community can go back to our beloved JA2 1.13 project.
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318158] Mon, 29 April 2013 00:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3747
Registered:July 2009
Yeah, getting hung up on the system is pretty stupid and I think most reasonable people here got over it after the initial 'OMG, Change!'-shock had worn off and the full extend of ways in which that game was bound to fail was starting to emerge.
PS: I think I told you that before, but I really like the BSM.


Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318159] Mon, 29 April 2013 00:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
R@S

 
Messages:134
Registered:July 2004
Location: Sweden
DepressivesBrot
Yeah, getting hung up on the system is pretty stupid and I think most reasonable people here got over it after the initial 'OMG, Change!'-shock had worn off and the full extend of ways in which that game was bound to fail was starting to emerge.
And here's the lesson for FC, if you want to succeed you need to put a lot of effort into those details. Sure, the special humor and mercs are an important factor for JA, but it's the tactical depth that is the main thing for making it great.

DepressivesBrot
PS: I think I told you that before, but I really like the BSM.
Thanks bro, I like to too Very Happy
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318164] Mon, 29 April 2013 01:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peal

 
Messages:259
Registered:August 2007
Location: Germany
DepressivesBrot
Yeah, getting hung up on the system is pretty stupid

I don't think so, like FC said couple of times, if it ain't broke, don't change it. Turnbased gameplay belongs to Jagged Alliance like nothing else.

It was never the discussion that plan&go would not work, I enjoyed 7.52 as well, but it is and feels not like Jagged Alliance and even bitComposer does say this now, at least Michael.

[Updated on: Mon, 29 April 2013 01:38] by Moderator

Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318168] Mon, 29 April 2013 03:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3532
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
The idea is the bC made all the wrong steps right from the go. Announced they make "JA2 Reloaded" with pomp and then said it's no longer TB. That's like looking down the barrel and pulling the trigger to check if shotgun is loaded. The fact that they renamed it BIA and pulled all the marketing bells and whistles just didn't work. They realized way too late this game is A CULT GAME. It's not your pewpewpew tadadada shooter my 7 year old would probably love (but he's forbidden to play). This is a cult game for a very very specialized and expert hardcore fan base. And if you can't win the hardcore fans and think "fuck them, we'll just rebrand it and sell it to kids", the fans will give you a whoopin to remember.

Every game, standalone or online, that betrayed its hardcore fan base has failed ugly. I mean really really ugly. Because it's the Internet Age and what I tweet and post on my FB today it's read by 100-200 people. And from there on it just snowballs downhill. Multiply that by a couple of thousands and you can understand the power of word of mouth today. It's something some gaming marketeers never got taught at school. Or dunno, maybe some CEO were schooled back when it mattered more what X or Y magazine said about it. And instead of being true and honest to the people that matter most - their audience - they prefer to manipulate reviews and buy gifts for gaming editors to write nice things. That's not working so well nowdays. Cause users will fuckup your Metacritic ratings, they will thrash your review comments and will disintegrate your company on forums.

This is why FC is doing well what they are doing and they're are to be applauded. Only downside, they have nothing yet to show. But they're not asking for $2 million either. They're basically asking for a chance to prove it can be done right.

And let's face it - after BIA, it's the best chance we got. Maybe the last.

[Updated on: Mon, 29 April 2013 03:04] by Moderator



Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318169] Mon, 29 April 2013 04:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peal

 
Messages:259
Registered:August 2007
Location: Germany
Yes so true! I never thought that this could happen. I thought Jagged Alliance is buried at bitComposer and now this. We can really enjoy this Smile

I wish I could do more to help. Maybe I produce an video.


Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318173] Mon, 29 April 2013 10:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Oilystool

 
Messages:25
Registered:April 2013
Location: Copenhagen
Peal
Yes so true! I never thought that this could happen. I thought Jagged Alliance is buried at bitComposer and now this. We can really enjoy this Smile

I wish I could do more to help. Maybe I produce an video.





Perhaps produce a video in German, Germany has a significant source of Jagged Alliance's fan base.
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318181] Mon, 29 April 2013 14:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JP'TR

 
Messages:104
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
How about a around mail to all registered user here? If that's possible.
Think a lot old JA2 Gamers would support this but are not allways up2date with Gamenews.
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318182] Mon, 29 April 2013 14:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2005
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
scope100
How about a around mail to all registered user here? If that's possible.
Think a lot old JA2 Gamers would support this but are not allways up2date with Gamenews.

That's a no go. Would be spamming and Shanga is not gonna do it as he stated here (or the neighbouring thread).
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318183] Mon, 29 April 2013 14:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peal

 
Messages:259
Registered:August 2007
Location: Germany
Quote:
From time to time we send out emails regarding this community.
Do you wish to receive these emails?
No Yes


Wouldn't be a problem, since everybody can choose to not receive such E-mails. I think it's a good idea.

It's not like an Newsletter, where you have to have the explicit permission from the receiver.

Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318185] Mon, 29 April 2013 15:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JP'TR

 
Messages:104
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
This is not spam, one Infomail in .. how many years?
I would think about it again Shanga.

At the moment the Kickstarter looks like it needs realy everything to support...

[Updated on: Mon, 29 April 2013 15:49] by Moderator

Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318186] Mon, 29 April 2013 15:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Peal

 
Messages:259
Registered:August 2007
Location: Germany
Shanga
And let's face it - after BIA, it's the best chance we got. Maybe the last.


You said it Shanga, plus you're getting old Very Happy
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318187] Mon, 29 April 2013 15:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lockie

 
Messages:3853
Registered:February 2006
Location: Scotland
Ancient or not , I'm sure Shanga plans to be around for a while yet . Smile

If for some reason this new game doesn't come off as we hope , get your heads in gear and learn how to mod ! It'll be the continuation of this great game which will outlast us all ... *dribbles into food stained beard* ... sonny !


Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318189] Mon, 29 April 2013 16:07 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
sardonic_wrath

 
Messages:48
Registered:June 2011
Not that I don't want this campaign to succeed... but:

As a forum admin, you have a responibility towards your users - they give you their email for registration purposes, trusting you won't sell them to spammers etc..
Granted, an infomail isn't as bad, and most users probably wouldn't have a problem with it... but still, people didn't sign up for infomail, they signed up for forum usage and therefore massmail should be reserved for matters concering the forums.
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