Home » FULL CONTROL GAMES » JA: Flashback (Solutions. Tips. Spoilers!) » Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318863] Tue, 07 May 2013 12:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
grim

 
Messages:350
Registered:July 2006
Location: France
Still supporting everything you say Shanga, however, just a notification:
JAF forum exists:

http://www.jaggedallianceflashback.com/

I don't even remember how i ended on it though! It's nearly impossible to google... Maybe from the KS comments.
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318866] Tue, 07 May 2013 12:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
derek

 
Messages:150
Registered:April 2010
Actually we offered them nothing
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318867] Tue, 07 May 2013 13:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3519
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
Quote:
Actually we offered them nothing

[Updated on: Tue, 07 May 2013 13:22] by Moderator



Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318868] Tue, 07 May 2013 13:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
derek

 
Messages:150
Registered:April 2010
Of course they
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318877] Tue, 07 May 2013 14:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hazapuza

 
Messages:264
Registered:February 2009
Location: Finland
Quote:
KJJ 11 minutes ago

@Alex If you're talking about Bear's Pit, it's important to remember that their priorities are very different from that of (us) fans. We want a decent JA2 experience. They want a totally accessible and open modding platform - Shanga himself said he barely cared about the game itself, just the ability to tweak it. Well it's likely there'll be moddability but I doubt that even if FC raised a million the game would be moddable to the extent the Bear Pit guys want. So, well... they have provided some really good ideas but when they get all out negative and rant about this feature or that feature I tune them out a bit personally


I'm not trying to stir up shit, but how can anyone say with a straight face that we here in Bear's Pit are not Jagged Alliance fans? :crazy:
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318878] Tue, 07 May 2013 14:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3519
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
[color:#FF0000]@derek - your suggestions have been moved to the correct forum. Automatic move fucked up so I re-pasted them. [/color]

http://www.bears-pit.com/board/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/318369/gonew/1/Community_Wishlist_for_JA_F.html#UNREAD

@Grim - sorry, your reply got caught in the move and had to go. Feel free to repost it here.

@Hazapuza - I said I don't care if they come up with a lame story as long as the inner working of the game allows the community to create new and better content. Strictly for them it would be wise to hit a homerun, of course, but even a short campaign (think JA2UB) would be justifiable under current budget. If they add proper modding tools.

Now, do I expect any random idiot on the internet to actually understand that we're are trying to save the JA from it's last and final downfall - A FUCKED UP KS? No I don't.

I've stated more than I care to remember that the only way this is gonna be saved is IF the KS gets a massive boost from FC. [color:#990000]Sending people to their KS page as it is now will do their more harm than good because most will turn away in disgust.[/color] Once they have proper content up, hell yea, I am all aboard to get this done.

[Updated on: Tue, 07 May 2013 15:00] by Moderator



Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318879] Tue, 07 May 2013 14:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
derek

 
Messages:150
Registered:April 2010
Well that
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318880] Tue, 07 May 2013 14:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3734
Registered:July 2009
I honestly can't be bothered with most of the drama in this thread, but couldn't resist this one:
Shanga
A license they didn't buy, just misteriously landed on their lap (why them? why not 1.13 crew? why not Ian Currie? nobody will know).
Because one of them was taking a piss at the right time and happened to talk to the right guy. And honestly, would you just hand a license to us? There may have been great modding teams in the past, but at this moment, there are a few talented lone wolfs and a whole bunch of people whose defining quality is being able to shout loudly ... we couldn't agree whether to put a walnut or glass table in the conference room, much less how to make a game.


Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318881] Tue, 07 May 2013 14:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3519
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
That might be true, Depri. Although I have different views on this, I respect yours.

But the point was that just because someone peed on bC's shoes in a pub doesn't make them qualified to anything else than peeing on other people's shoes.

Let's wait for this magic update no. 12 they are about to post today. Maybe things will change for the better.


Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318882] Tue, 07 May 2013 14:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gdalf

 
Messages:89
Registered:May 2013
Shanga if I suggested your nick for the enemy name pool would you be flattered or upset? ^^
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318883] Tue, 07 May 2013 14:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3519
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
gdalf
Shanga if I suggested your nick for the enemy name pool would you be flattered or upset? ^^


Only if they portray me as the summer camp raving murderer who kills innocent schoolgirls lined at FC lemonade stand. With a chainsaw. To steal the $5 their mommies and daddies gave them to buy soda and support the "Save the Hamsters Fund".

I wouldn't take anything else.

[Updated on: Tue, 07 May 2013 14:54] by Moderator



Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318885] Tue, 07 May 2013 14:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
grim

 
Messages:350
Registered:July 2006
Location: France
Shanga

Only if they portray me as the summer camp raving murderer who kills innocent schoolgirls lined at FC lemonade stand. With a chainsaw. To steal the $5 their mommies and daddies gave them to buy soda and support the "Save the Hamsters Fund".

I wouldn't take anything else.

Memorable!
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318886] Tue, 07 May 2013 15:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JAFTeam

 
Messages:157
Registered:April 2013
Shanga
gdalf
Shanga if I suggested your nick for the enemy name pool would you be flattered or upset? ^^


Only if they portray me as the summer camp raving murderer who kills innocent schoolgirls lined at FC lemonade stand. With a chainsaw. To steal the $5 their mommies and daddies gave them to buy soda and support the "Save the Hamsters Fund".

I wouldn't take anything else.


noted it.
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318890] Tue, 07 May 2013 15:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3519
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia

@JAFTeam - What's taking so long to post that Update 12?


Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318891] Tue, 07 May 2013 15:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JAFTeam

 
Messages:157
Registered:April 2013
It's sometimes a pain in the ass to use this damned KS WYSIWYG-Editor.
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318895] Tue, 07 May 2013 15:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3519
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
Well, hurry up, some of the scout-girls are getting bored and started to wander in the woods. And you know what lurks in them dark woods.

You need to keep them focused on actually supporting the game and not turning this into "us versus them" bullshit.


Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318901] Tue, 07 May 2013 15:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gdalf

 
Messages:89
Registered:May 2013
gdalf
2) Yes I've read that the old developers of the originals and modders can't publicly commit to working on the title. But they could publicly endorse your project? You could officially instate them as project consultants (not employees)? You should have got them in before because your track record is so thin. There's still time to get them in now.

Cool
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318902] Tue, 07 May 2013 15:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3519
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
@JAFTeam - let me be the first to say this:

FUCK YES!


Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318903] Tue, 07 May 2013 15:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JAFTeam

 
Messages:157
Registered:April 2013
We are working on more in that direction. Can't speak about details yet.
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318905] Tue, 07 May 2013 16:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JP'TR

 
Messages:104
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Shanga

@JAFTeam - What's taking so long to post that Update 12?


Maybe they want to do it right now? Maybe they want something to show, instead of just releasing any kind of video, which is maybe not giving the right kick to the Kickstarter???

There are still 16 days left, and with some good impressions the Kickstarter still can become much better. What i and a lot of other JA-Fans surely hope for.

And to the rest of your last posts here shanga, i don't know why, but for me i have the feeling you just don't want a new JA or just lost any trust because of the past JA flops, whatever.
Now linking a Kickstarter to another game at the mainpage... what has nothing to do with JA, what should that mean?!

Everything you said about the kickstarter in the beginning might be true: It was not good planed, and FC has still not enough to show.
But that does not justify your attitude towards them.
God i just hope you are not speaking for the hole community here, otherwise i am realy out here, i don't want to read such useless ranting all the time.
I have much respect for you at all and what you are doing here since years, but if you have nothing constructive more to say, and if you not trust FC, or if you have no believe that a new JA is even possible, just relax a bit because there is absolutly nothing for us to loose.. instead of the few $ we throwed at the KS, but for the JA-brand the situation can not be more bad then to be in the hands of bitComposer.
And that is where it will be after FC gave it up.

Stay constructive, as it should be among adults.



Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318906] Tue, 07 May 2013 16:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hazapuza

 
Messages:264
Registered:February 2009
Location: Finland
Or maybe it's up already. Razz
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318907] Tue, 07 May 2013 16:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JAFTeam

 
Messages:157
Registered:April 2013
Hm. Can you stop bashing each other, please Razz
We can take it but you need to stop ripping apart each other. Every one has an opinion. We're here to change them. Or to not change them. However we're here to have the opinions on our side. But please, don't bitchfight. Very Happy
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318908] Tue, 07 May 2013 16:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3519
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
@scope - update 12 is up and it's rocking and rolling. And FC proved they can get their arses in gear and save this.

QED


Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318909] Tue, 07 May 2013 16:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2001
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
Hazapuza
Quote:
KJJ 11 minutes ago

@Alex If you're talking about Bear's Pit, it's important to remember that their priorities are very different from that of (us) fans. We want a decent JA2 experience. They want a totally accessible and open modding platform - Shanga himself said he barely cared about the game itself, just the ability to tweak it. Well it's likely there'll be moddability but I doubt that even if FC raised a million the game would be moddable to the extent the Bear Pit guys want. So, well... they have provided some really good ideas but when they get all out negative and rant about this feature or that feature I tune them out a bit personally


I'm not trying to stir up shit, but how can anyone say with a straight face that we here in Bear's Pit are not Jagged Alliance fans? :crazy:


Don't nit-pick on words, I'd say. It's abvious to me that he wants to differentiate between "player only" types of Fans and the modders.
And TBH, what's described in the quote you gave, Hazapuza, there is some truth, IMO.

[Updated on: Tue, 07 May 2013 16:30] by Moderator

Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318910] Tue, 07 May 2013 16:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3519
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia

An awesome initial game is essential because the game needs to have good sales, attract more attention and create the right buzz so we can all have JA3 we waited for.

An extensive modding support is also essential because it gives the developers plenty of time to develop the next game without the public pressure that usually gets stirred up when everyone finished the initial campaign.

And since the initial campaign will be short in JA:F, or at least shorter than JA2, people will burn through it and come looking for more MUCH FASTER. And when they do that, they have 3 choices:

1. Uninstall. Move on to the next game.
2. Start moaning why the devs take so much time to deliver next game.
3. Happily chew through new mods and wait patiently.

Any sane dev would pick no. 3 and Full Control, thank God, had this figured out from day one.


Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318911] Tue, 07 May 2013 16:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JAFTeam

 
Messages:157
Registered:April 2013
Shanga: It won't be that short. This might be communication problem in the end. Sure, we're talking about the base-game for 350k. But we're talking about a game which will prbly take 20 hours or even more maybe, depending on your playstyle. Something around that. Plus the option to avoid the main story and just farm the country for more loot. Think most people got that wrong. But we'll take care of that in an update regarding "what is a base game for us" stuff I think.
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318912] Tue, 07 May 2013 16:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mauser

 
Messages:770
Registered:August 2006
Location: Bavaria - Germany
well, well, well, look who

☆★GL★☆
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318913] Tue, 07 May 2013 16:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3519
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
JAFTeam
Shanga: It won't be that short. This might be communication problem in the end. Sure, we're talking about the base-game for 350k. But we're talking about a game which will prbly take 20 hours or even more maybe, depending on your playstyle. Something around that. Plus the option to avoid the main story and just farm the country for more loot. Think most people got that wrong. But we'll take care of that in an update regarding "what is a base game for us" stuff I think.


Even better. You folks did repeat quite a few times that you can't afford to make a 200 maps game and that message got mixed with the actual playtime we'll get.

Of course you can make a 20h+ campaign without making the player walk for hours on randomly generated empty maps. As a matter of fact I'd take a 50 maps game where each sector is a piece of art in terms of design and tactics than a 2000 maps game that's a mess.

But yes, you do need to clear a lot of misconceptions, because lack of clear game plan determined people to pick bits of info from various sources. Add to that bits that got mis-read and mis-interpreted and you've got a nice mess.

I think before the final push you should do a major cleanup on the KS page and make it more compact and tidy. Otherwise you risk dispersing the vital info.

[Updated on: Tue, 07 May 2013 16:59] by Moderator



Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318914] Tue, 07 May 2013 17:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hazapuza

 
Messages:264
Registered:February 2009
Location: Finland
Sam_Hotte
Don't nit-pick on words, I'd say. It's abvious to me that he wants to differentiate between "player only" types of Fans and the modders.

What's obvious to you may not be obvious to me. Wink

Sam_Hotte
And TBH, what's described in the quote you gave, Hazapuza, there is some truth, IMO.

This I agree with.
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318917] Tue, 07 May 2013 18:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gdalf

 
Messages:89
Registered:May 2013
Maybe I'm suffering from goodnewsbounce (and that it appears they took up one of my suggestions wholesale) but I do think if there's one thing a small no-name developer can do to pull this off it is to show they're listening (and have a sense of humor). FC have got this part right, and if they really nail it they will turn their biggest weakness (no demo/video/pre-alpha) into their biggest strength (real input from the community). I may be starting to believe.
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318919] Tue, 07 May 2013 18:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
grim

 
Messages:350
Registered:July 2006
Location: France
I'm glad to read Chris Camfield is on board (as an advisor, but still!). Welcome back on JA! Make the whip slash hard!

Thanks for the communication about modding. I hope the mod advisory team will be a strong basis of the project.

Keep it coming!

* I'm desesperately asking for STRETCH GOALS. It's very important to cannalize people's faith and dedication, and bring more backers.

* Where's the video? Post it asap!
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318920] Tue, 07 May 2013 18:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Vortexdr

 
Messages:57
Registered:April 2013
Curious anyone know what Shaun Lyng is up to these days? Just checked doesnt seem like he has done much since writing the story for JA and then some game in 2005
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318921] Tue, 07 May 2013 18:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3519
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
Stay tuned for an official announcement soon about our endorsement of JA:Flashback. I am clearing the final details, but until I do that, here's something for the BP members who are backing this project (and don't dig the hamster meme too much):

http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/board/gallery/80/full/96.png

http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/board/gallery/80/full/97.png


Feel free to use this in your sig here or elsewhere (not sure if others dig the bear joke, but it's up to you).

[Updated on: Tue, 07 May 2013 20:35] by Moderator



Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318922] Tue, 07 May 2013 19:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
derek

 
Messages:150
Registered:April 2010
I'll just quote myself:



Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318925] Tue, 07 May 2013 19:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gdalf

 
Messages:89
Registered:May 2013
Great news Shanga. I hope FC explain to the whole world just what an amazing, dedicated and talented modding community this game has and how great it is to have them on board. They can take full credit for the fact there are still people playing JA2 today and how many games can claim that kind of longevity. Baldur's Gate 2 had some amazing modders and mods, but JA2's took the game to new levels beyond content. It means a better game, a longer shelf-life, and a world of possibility. The rest of us already know how awesome this is, but this should be an important new selling point for those unfamiliar with the series.

Edit: Just a thought Shanga, maybe you can help them write the talking points for the "We got The Bear's Pit approval" update. 20 full expansions, over a decade worth of hardcore support keeping the franchise running singlehandedly, virtually every gun on this planet added, updated the combat mechanics to create incredible amounts of strategic depth, blah blah. You know this stuff better than us Smile The target audience is people who don't really know the JA franchise

[Updated on: Tue, 07 May 2013 19:49] by Moderator

Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318927] Tue, 07 May 2013 19:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Vortexdr

 
Messages:57
Registered:April 2013
gdalf
Great news Shanga. I hope FC explain to the whole world just what an amazing, dedicated and talented modding community this game has and how great it is to have them on board. They can take full credit for the fact there are still people playing JA2 today and how many games can claim that kind of longevity. Baldur's Gate 2 had some amazing modders and mods, but JA2's took the game to new levels beyond content. It means a better game, a longer shelf-life, and a world of possibility. The rest of us already know how awesome this is, but this should be an important new selling point for those unfamiliar with the series.

Edit: Just a thought Shanga, maybe you can help them write the talking points for the "We got The Bear's Pit approval" update. 20 full expansions, over a decade worth of hardcore support keeping the franchise running singlehandedly, virtually every gun on this planet added, updated the combat mechanics to create incredible amounts of strategic depth, blah blah. You know this stuff better than us Smile The target audience is people who don't really know the JA franchise


To be fair, if the Infinity Engine would of been made open source I do think the modding would come close to what was accomplished with JA2. The only stumbling block is obviously creating art for infinity engine games.
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318928] Tue, 07 May 2013 19:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Decado2

 
Messages:42
Registered:July 2002
Great news. I will pledge when I get home from work.

Now, they need to get the news out. If we're lucky, maybe get even more JA2 devs involved (stretch goal?). Also, post this stuff on the home page (not just the link). Ppl need to know this shit just got real. Razz
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318930] Tue, 07 May 2013 20:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JAFTeam

 
Messages:157
Registered:April 2013
We send out a press release about that actually. But it might help if enough people ping news-sites like VG247 and RPS often enough Wink
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318934] Tue, 07 May 2013 21:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JAFTeam

 
Messages:157
Registered:April 2013
So the new meme is the bear, right? Hope we'll get far enough to announce the next sector.
Re: Jagged Alliance: Flashback now on Kickstarter[message #318935] Tue, 07 May 2013 21:11 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Shanga

 
Messages:3519
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia

JAFTeam
So the new meme is the bear, right? Hope we'll get far enough to announce the next sector.


Wrong. It's as old as JA2 almost. Very Happy


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