Home » FULL CONTROL GAMES » #JAFDEV » Community Wishlist for JA:F
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318478] Thu, 02 May 2013 12:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3523
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
Mauser brought up SMP in another thread and I thank him for that

Quote:

Maybe it would be a smart move for FC to use their mastery of the Unity engine to provide just that, a solid, easy to use construction kit and framework for modders of turn based games, then use KS once more to develop the "JA:F content module" for it. And if that works out well, they could start making a plethora of series of differently styled and themed turn based games on that foundation for quite some time, whilst carefully and continually evolving and updating the tools.


The basic principle of SMP is that the actual campaign - this includes maps, mercs, quests, weapons, isn't hardcoded into the game, but fed-in as a replaceable "plugin".

This could actually work better for FC than anything else, since they don't have the budget to make a full on JA2 campaign. Fine, then design a framework with a simple campaign that can be replaced.

[Updated on: Thu, 02 May 2013 12:21] by Moderator



Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318488] Thu, 02 May 2013 16:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2003
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
Shanga
This could actually work better for FC than anything else, since they don't have the budget to make a full on JA2 campaign. Fine, then design a framework with a simple campaign that can be replaced.

... or expanded. Razz
(which instantly brings 'DLC' to mind, a word that is not much liked either, i'd think, but would be a way to expand the game over time without having to fund everything at once in advance.)

I support R@S' suggestion of a BiA like global map for several reasons:
1. could make the satellite pics so that it gives a rough overview of sector map's layout (e.g. "smaller buildings surrounded by woods; typical small village here" without revealing details. This would add to FOW - Player has already a rough idea of from where to approach etc. but could still be surprised by the details revealed advancing into map ...

2. Intel-Upgrades to your base or intel gained by whichever means could be integrated into global map by e.g. allowing a detailed zoom into an according sector, add remarks or photos to sector or similar

I'd quite like (at least some) random maps to add to replay ability. And it would allow for randomness in side quests, too.
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318489] Thu, 02 May 2013 16:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shadow21

 
Messages:333
Registered:November 2001
Location: on route to San Hermanos
i too like random maps for the inbetween sectors. but i would go even further: not only select a map from a pool but random generate the map itself. this is the ideal solution for wilderness maps since it cuts down on time needed to "fill" the world map.

certain sectors such as cities, bases etc. obviously should not be random-generated.
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318490] Thu, 02 May 2013 16:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
malthaussen

 
Messages:91
Registered:January 2005
Location: Philadelphia
R@S

So if you go with an active system, maybe add merc classes to the I.M.P., like trooper, machine gunner, mechanic, scout, sniper and medic. Then make the costs of different stat updates differ, and by choosing a class you'd get a discount on some of the stats that are crucial to the class selected. It would add to the RPG sense of the game, which I think is one area that always could be improved upon.(Play BSM and you'll see what I mean Wink )


I have to say I hate this idea. I hate character classes in general, and always have, despite being an RPG player since DnD was invented. It is especially a bad idea for a skill-based game, IMO. A character should be defined by what he does and the skills he learns, not some arbitrary title. They did this in Silent Storm and the new XCOM, but fortunately the InXile team have not added this to Wasteland 2.

-- Mal
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318493] Thu, 02 May 2013 16:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
malthaussen

 
Messages:91
Registered:January 2005
Location: Philadelphia
R@S


Enemies should drop all their inventory when dying, no half-arsed probability stuff here, give me mah loot!


I was just thinking about this last night, and I am of the opposite opinion. It is more realistic, agreed, but it takes some of the pleasure out of the early game, when you are dying for decent weapons and somebody randomly drops a cool gun. If all the bad guys drop all their stuff all the time, there will be no difficulty in equipping the team. Having played it both ways, I prefer the delicious uncertainty.

-- Mal
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318494] Thu, 02 May 2013 16:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3742
Registered:July 2009
malthaussen
I was just thinking about this last night, and I am of the opposite opinion. It is more realistic, agreed, but it takes some of the pleasure out of the early game, when you are dying for decent weapons and somebody randomly drops a cool gun. If all the bad guys drop all their stuff all the time, there will be no difficulty in equipping the team. Having played it both ways, I prefer the delicious uncertainty.

-- Mal
Nope, definitely drop all here. I hate fighting 5 guys with machineguns and upon their death finding a pack of bubblegum (hey, at least I can chew now while kicking ass) and half a belt of 762.


Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318496] Thu, 02 May 2013 16:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
malthaussen

 
Messages:91
Registered:January 2005
Location: Philadelphia
Big sectors and lots of people.

One of the technical questions I have about the engine is how big and messy the combats will be. Most of the battlefields in Silent Storm were small, and there were never more than about a dozen enemies. And of course you were limited to six on your own side. Can the engine support large, sprawling maps and platoon-sized actions? And if so, is it the intention of the devs to exploit this ability?

@DepressiveBot: Yeah, I hear you. It can be very frustrating, but I tend to get a chuckle out of it now. I get more annoyed that Bobby Ray's doesn't always sell the ammo I want, and having to scavenge that can be a pain in the ass, especially in the early game.

-- Mal

[Updated on: Thu, 02 May 2013 16:57] by Moderator

Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318497] Thu, 02 May 2013 17:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3742
Registered:July 2009
Let's just agree they should add the option for both Very Happy


Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318498] Thu, 02 May 2013 17:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Vortexdr

 
Messages:57
Registered:April 2013
malthaussen
Big sectors and lots of people.

One of the technical questions I have about the engine is how big and messy the combats will be. Most of the battlefields in Silent Storm were small, and there were never more than about a dozen enemies. And of course you were limited to six on your own side. Can the engine support large, sprawling maps and platoon-sized actions? And if so, is it the intention of the devs to exploit this ability?

@DepressiveBot: Yeah, I hear you. It can be very frustrating, but I tend to get a chuckle out of it now. I get more annoyed that Bobby Ray's doesn't always sell the ammo I want, and having to scavenge that can be a pain in the ass, especially in the early game.

-- Mal


Hmm Platoon sized? That's like umm 25-50 people isnt it? I personally think that's way too big as far as playable units go.

Enemies sure give us a ton as long as themas are nice and big but I wouldnt like if I had to mico manage 25+ mercs.
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318499] Thu, 02 May 2013 17:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
malthaussen

 
Messages:91
Registered:January 2005
Location: Philadelphia
DepressivesBrot
Let's just agree they should add the option for both Very Happy


Absolutely. I'm all for switchable options. 1.13 is beautiful with that.

-- Mal
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318511] Thu, 02 May 2013 19:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lytinwheedle

 
Messages:78
Registered:November 2001
Location: Luxembourg
No B:E5/7.62 maps please.

What I hated about that was that only a few areas on the map had proper sectors, and the rest was a repetitive list of random maps that (more or less, emphasis on the latter) matched the climate/terrain you were in.

While it is a lot of work, JA2s sectors are significantly better because it gives the gameworld some continuity. It also allows you to set set traps and ambushes and the exploration might lead to nice loot. The map is what made JA2 come alive. I have walked through and fought on the majority of the sectors at some point, and it never felt like '*Loading screen* Yawn, that map again.'

You should be able to toggle the enemies dropping everything but it really unbalances the economy and removes the challenge and elation you feel when you see the first long weapon on a body (or snatch it from the enemy after putting a dart into him and then beating him into a pulpy mess). If the items have pockets, have the game empty them automatically, it was really annoying to click through cascading windows of pouches and vests in B:E5/7.62 to get that last STANAG mag you needed.

B:E5/7.62s way of dealing with weapons and attachments was epic though. Pimping out my gun with all sorts of widgets and then gaffer-taping two mags together and having the thing visible on the character model and in the inventory made me all giddy. I even spent some time stripping guns to their absolute minimum because I'm a sad excuse of a human being.
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318512] Thu, 02 May 2013 19:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shadow21

 
Messages:333
Registered:November 2001
Location: on route to San Hermanos
if jagged alliance flashback copies the weapons part of e5/7.62 im going to be pretty happy. the gun porn factor of the game was through the roof Very Happy

and you know i love me my gun porn Razz
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318514] Thu, 02 May 2013 19:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaerar

 
Messages:2045
Registered:January 2003
Location: Australia :D
I know what ya mean, gun porn is awesome, hell I learn't so much about guns just by drawing and researching the little buggers it's insane. Though I must admit learning all that gave me a really large hatred of FPS shooter balancing using arbitrary numbers based off complete bollocks.

However personally I loved the RPG aspect of JA2. Really it's an RPG game at heart with a strong if cheesy story and strong characters and personality interaction between them. Its a game of little fine details, some of which we are still finding out 12 years down the track.

Thing is that a JA game if it contains the strong story element, it won't have the obvious ease of introducing a multi-player component. This is something most publishers are gaga over at the moment without any real comprehension as to why.

BTW Shadow21 if modding is possible I'll see what I can do to feed the gun porn Very Happy


Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318519] Thu, 02 May 2013 20:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
R@S

 
Messages:134
Registered:July 2004
Location: Sweden
Lytinwheedle
No B:E5/7.62 maps please.

What I hated about that was that only a few areas on the map had proper sectors, and the rest was a repetitive list of random maps that (more or less, emphasis on the latter) matched the climate/terrain you were in.

While it is a lot of work, JA2s sectors are significantly better because it gives the gameworld some continuity. It also allows you to set set traps and ambushes and the exploration might lead to nice loot. The map is what made JA2 come alive. I have walked through and fought on the majority of the sectors at some point, and it never felt like '*Loading screen* Yawn, that map again.'
I'm not sure which I prefer yet, it will be up to FC and how they end up doing it. If they have limited resources and only had the time and budget to make 20 sectors, I'd prefer the B:E5/7.62 maps. But then they would have to provide the community with a map editor(or Unity exporter to game format) so we could make some sectors ourselves and add them to the random sector pool to our liking.

If they plan to make 30 or more sectors and no map editor, the JA2/BiA way is what I'd like to see.

I'd also like to see what Shadow suggested, some randomly generated maps, but it's more than unlikely they'll have the resources and time to actually do this.

Lytinwheedle
You should be able to toggle the enemies dropping everything but it really unbalances the economy and removes the challenge and elation you feel when you see the first long weapon on a body (or snatch it from the enemy after putting a dart into him and then beating him into a pulpy mess). If the items have pockets, have the game empty them automatically, it was really annoying to click through cascading windows of pouches and vests in B:E5/7.62 to get that last STANAG mag you needed.
And I'm of two minds here as well. If we have the possibility to steal enemy weapons, like in JA2, I wouldn't mind a possibility drop that much. It would add to the tactical layer having to sneak and steal the weapons you really, really want. But if there's no stealing, I want 100% drop, or at least an option in the setting to toggle it on/off.

As for the economic balance, as Shanga said this could be solved with a good weight system. You could also tweak the shop prices so the player couldn't make that much money from the loot.
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318530] Thu, 02 May 2013 21:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3523
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
Having access to the best weapons too soon kills your game fast. BIA did that. And soon I was roaming the country with a full squad of snipers backed by HMGs, cleaning out entire military bases without breaking a sweat.
Weight + Degradation of weapons + Scavenging loot for parts + Mechanic = Surplus problem solved.
If it was me, I'd remove weapon dealers from the game entirely. Or at least not have both weapon dealers (+BR) and Drop all. I'd like to see more bartering done, instead of straight up trade.

- Bartering
Local gunsmith says he can improve your gun if you bring him X trigger group and a Y barrel. You deliver the items, get a cool new sniper rifle. Once you're friendly with him, his interface gives you ideas about possible exotic upgrades to all your weapons.
This could be one of the HQ features. Either a local or a highly expensive and specialized mechanic. Also, if you don't have a mechanic in the team to remove the X part from the looted gun, you could PAY to have the base gunsmith dismantle it. That's essential unless you want the players to curse the lack of info and their lack of mechanics.

- Bobby Ray
I'd remove BR entirely from the game and replace him with random shipments (airdrops) from your employer. And don't have a fixed location, you actually get a note saying "We'll airdrop supplies in sector N9. ETA 24h. Be there". And it's up to you to get there in time, recover the stash and haul it back to HQ. Leave them there too long, enemy gets there before you and you've just equipped them with a cool new weapons. The irony, eh?

[Updated on: Thu, 02 May 2013 22:57] by Moderator



Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318535] Thu, 02 May 2013 22:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gambigobilla

 
Messages:709
Registered:July 2008
I demand an "Awesome Admin Badge" for Shanga.
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318537] Thu, 02 May 2013 23:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Inukshuk

 
Messages:86
Registered:September 2009
Location: Canada
I'm playing BSM right now and the skill upgrades associated with having chosen certain classes is a nice compromise between the JA one of 'learning by doing'...but equally so for all characters, and something more confining. I recall that Fallout also had certain skills moving up further with fewer points based on character styles (not the Perks, but there were flag-able skills that moved up faster), and that was much like the Blue Sun Mod idea.

I like Silent Storm a lot, including its skill progression, but it would be more rigid than what we're used to in JA, IMO.
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318538] Fri, 03 May 2013 00:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
EXile 150 Abyss

 
Messages:138
Registered:September 2009
@NJ I disagree with you on the skills...

I liked the JA skill system. It was a clear reward for what that Merc does. If it heals people it gets points in medical, the guy who fixes the gear gets mechanical...

I really liked it... I sorted itself out.
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318540] Fri, 03 May 2013 00:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
R@S

 
Messages:134
Registered:July 2004
Location: Sweden
EXos

I liked the JA skill system. It was a clear reward for what that Merc does. If it heals people it gets points in medical, the guy who fixes the gear gets mechanical...
I also love that system, and was actually very reluctant to adding something like an active system to BSM. But I was convinced by some good arguments about the RPG element, and went ahead and wrote the code. I made sure it was optional and you could turn it off in the INI, in the spirit of 1.13 Smile

It didn't take long until I got hooked on it tho, it's one of the more addictive functions I've ever encountered. I constantly keep track of the merc's kill count, so I can see my character get better in some stats that aren't very easy to train. Before that I used to spend a lot of time in the game, running back and forth on the map to increase my strength and agility. Throwing grenades to increase dexterity and Throwing skills. Now I don't do that anymore, and playing the game is actually much more fun when you focus on actually playing.

Having a teacher/student system is the JA2 way, so I wouldn't be disappointed if FC stayed true to that in this case. But man, getting addicted to stuff is fun too...
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318541] Fri, 03 May 2013 00:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
grim

 
Messages:348
Registered:July 2006
Location: France
JA skill system (attributes, skills, perks and Health/stamina/morale) is one of the best i've played. I love the passive skill progression. You have to forge to become a blacksmith, they somehow say in my country. A class system with unlocks or "xp to spent where ou want" sickens me.

"If it works, don't fix it" FC said, and in my opinion, it's the case here.

Maybe it can be tweaked a bit. Some skills and perks can be added, redone or interchanged eventually, but no more in my taste.
I.E. Marksmanship could be split in several skills like handguns, rifles, MGs... or this could be processed via perks like STOMP did. Melee, hand to hand, stealthy, etcetera, could be transformed into skills. Covert/spy could be a new perk like Flugente did, and other perks could come by.

But the core mechanic works so good and so realistic/coherent that it would be insane to change it.
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318560] Fri, 03 May 2013 11:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lytinwheedle

 
Messages:78
Registered:November 2001
Location: Luxembourg
Yes, the passive skill progression is the most 'realistic', as it means you have to do what you want to progress in. I don't like the more RPG-like system because it allows me to bake 200 cakes in order to become a master swordfighter.

Everytime Ira put a critical round from a roof in Drassen into the head of an enemy threatening my wounded IMP made me cheer. The +1 Marksmanship message was the icing on the cake, showing me the game understands me.
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318562] Fri, 03 May 2013 11:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lockie

 
Messages:3832
Registered:February 2006
Location: Scotland
Glad you all left it for me to bring up lighting ( again ! ) . Please give us lighting that can be turned on , off , destroyed and otherwise used properly . At least let it be moddable so traps can be set and sprung at night . Can the unity engine do this ?


Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318564] Fri, 03 May 2013 11:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JP'TR

 
Messages:104
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
lockie
Glad you all left it for me to bring up lighting ( again ! ) . Please give us lighting that can be turned on , off , destroyed and otherwise used properly . At least let it be moddable so traps can be set and sprung at night . Can the unity engine do this ?


I have to say, a very nice idea!

But important for this point, that has to be done right.
A lot of games support these, but totaly wrong.
Newest example, the Trailers of Metro: Last Night, where a lot of guards patroling in a Room with lamps everywhere and the Player just goes arround, killing one light after the other, without enemys noticing the upcoming darkness...

So, if a Guard see a light in his view going off, he should run to the alarm switch OR alternatively "for dumb guards" , move up to check whats going on with his flashlight. Razz

But realy, I want that feature!!! (We need that for 1.13 as well)^^

[Updated on: Fri, 03 May 2013 11:50] by Moderator

Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318567] Fri, 03 May 2013 13:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
R@S

 
Messages:134
Registered:July 2004
Location: Sweden
lockie
Glad you all left it for me to bring up lighting ( again ! ) . Please give us lighting that can be turned on , off , destroyed and otherwise used properly . At least let it be moddable so traps can be set and sprung at night . Can the unity engine do this ?
The Unity engine supports both static and dynamic lighting, and it's good you brought up this very important addition. This is set when you build the sector, tying the light to an object and then tying that to a dynamic light source(which should then be turned on/off by player action) should be part of the game.

And my final note on the active/passive skill system, I should make it clear that I'm talking about an XP points idea as an addition to a passive "learn by doing" system, like the teacher/student system was in JA2. I do not want a purely XP point based system, that's not the Jagged Alliance way.

EDIT: I feel like a "Hamster Punching a Cow"

[Updated on: Fri, 03 May 2013 13:59] by Moderator

Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318569] Fri, 03 May 2013 15:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
EXile 150 Abyss

 
Messages:138
Registered:September 2009
Lytinwheedle
Everytime Ira put a critical round from a roof in Drassen into the head of an enemy threatening my wounded IMP made me cheer. The +1 Marksmanship message was the icing on the cake, showing me the game understands me.


Yes! It's just such a good feeling. ^^

R@S

And my final note on the active/passive skill system, I should make it clear that I'm talking about an XP points idea as an addition to a passive "learn by doing" system, like the teacher/student system was in JA2. I do not want a purely XP point based system, that's not the Jagged Alliance way.

EDIT: I feel like a "Hamster Punching a Cow"

[Updated on: Fri, 03 May 2013 15:17] by Moderator

Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318572] Fri, 03 May 2013 15:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2003
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
It wouldn't be necessary to have a hybrid system to mix the two worlds, IMHO.
One could implement some sort of "class system" in the passive "learning by doing" system like this:

E.G. A sniper gets improvement in MRK for every shot with a SR quite easily while shooting with a pistol gives him less (chances of) improvement.

A char with low DEX and not being in the 'Engineer' "class" learns MECH quite slow compared to a real mechanic.

So using a merc in his "native" role (or call it "class", if you prefer) is more efficient and effective than doing something "out of class".

The cream on top, IMVHO, would be a system where mercs could even learn another trait/perk/skill/class by doing things related to this trait/perk/skill/class. E.g. shooting pistols a lot and scoring some hundred critical hits with a pistol gains this char "pistol expert".
Something like this; you hopefully got the idea. Smile
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318581] Fri, 03 May 2013 17:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lytinwheedle

 
Messages:78
Registered:November 2001
Location: Luxembourg
Two things that worry me in the latest update:

Quote:
As you use the weapon you gain skill in using said weapon to give you more damage, accuracy etc. But at the same time there is an negative effect on unlearning other skills. This counters building ultra powerful characters with 100 in all skills and then destroying the enemy. So balancing out your team suddenly matters more.


A weapon familiarity stat which increases the more you use a weapon (and the stats of the weapons you no longer use decrease) is a nice idea, I think B:E5 had it. It rewards you for sticking with a weapon which might have one or two damage points less than a higher tech level / tier weapon. But I would hate to have mercs lose first aid skill if they become expert marksmen and don't use a first aid kit for a while.

Quote:
Using a weapon will slowly damage it to the point where it's destroyed. The more you use a given weapon, the more damage it takes.

Weapon jams are a nice way of reminding you to bring a repair merc with you, but I would not force the player to go back to base to get it fixed, or your will devaluate the 'Mech' skill.

I'm not all too sure about the gun level system you have in that KS update: The M16 A1 simply does not have the kind of toys that you can slap on an M16 A3, don't make that level reliant. A gunsmith should be able to mount Picatinny rails to an AK47 for enough credits so you can put NATO spec stuff on it though. He should also be able to convert your semi automatic AR15 into a full auto weapon, etc...
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318582] Fri, 03 May 2013 17:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JAFTeam

 
Messages:157
Registered:April 2013
Lytinwheedle

A weapon familiarity stat which increases the more you use a weapon (and the stats of the weapons you no longer use decrease) is a nice idea, I think B:E5 had it. It rewards you for sticking with a weapon which might have one or two damage points less than a higher tech level / tier weapon. But I would hate to have mercs lose first aid skill if they become expert marksmen and don't use a first aid kit for a while.
This was only for weapon-skills. Not other skills.

Quote:
Weapon jams are a nice way of reminding you to bring a repair merc with you, but I would not force the player to go back to base to get it fixed, or your will devaluate the 'Mech' skill.
We updated that a bit now to make it more clear.
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318583] Fri, 03 May 2013 17:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shadow21

 
Messages:333
Registered:November 2001
Location: on route to San Hermanos
in terms of weapon customization we seem to be getting what we asked for http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2079547763/jagged-alliance-flashback/posts
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318585] Fri, 03 May 2013 18:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
EXile 150 Abyss

 
Messages:138
Registered:September 2009
Shadow21
in terms of weapon customization we seem to be getting what we asked for http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2079547763/jagged-alliance-flashback/posts


Ah but can we still change everything around in the field? Or is the pic just a glossary for stats etc? Smile
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318586] Fri, 03 May 2013 18:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shadow21

 
Messages:333
Registered:November 2001
Location: on route to San Hermanos
those are all just concept arts to give a general idea nothing is set in stone so far.
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318587] Fri, 03 May 2013 18:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JAFTeam

 
Messages:157
Registered:April 2013
EXos: You mean attachements changing on the field? Why should we forbid that? Doesn't make much sense.
(but We'll step out of this thread again now. Please keep it for the wishes only Wink)

[Updated on: Fri, 03 May 2013 18:17] by Moderator

Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318588] Fri, 03 May 2013 18:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
EXile 150 Abyss

 
Messages:138
Registered:September 2009
JAFTeam
EXos: You mean attachements changing on the field? Why should we forbid that? Doesn't make much sense.
(but We'll step out of this thread again now. Please keep it for the wishes only Wink)


Sorry, the scars from "In Action" still hurt from time to time. And when they act up I get Cautious/paranoid. Razz
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318590] Fri, 03 May 2013 18:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sardonic_wrath

 
Messages:48
Registered:June 2011
R@S

I'd also like to see what Shadow suggested, some randomly generated maps, but it's more than unlikely they'll have the resources and time to actually do this.


http://www.fullcontrol.dk/tech_txengine.html
They seem to have that covered. Even for stuff more complicated than just randomly placing trees and rocks

Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318592] Fri, 03 May 2013 19:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sardonic_wrath

 
Messages:48
Registered:June 2011
My main concern with that new update is that the attachment screen looks quite its a major hassle to mod. Weapons will be the first thing people mod and will remain the most modded part of the game.
You already have to make a 3d model, texture, plus an inventury icon... you really shouldn't have to design the attachment sketch as well.
I realize this is a merely a concept art and maybe I misinterpreted it... my point is just think about modders when you do this part Wink
The 7.62 approach is definitley something you should consider. Looks great as well, the inventory pics don't even look generated... I didn't even know until I read it here.

And I really hope there are more internal weapon stats than shown here... though I think they should stay hidden in order not to overwhelm... and also to make it fun to discover that your new smg gives much preciser bursts, but your new assault rifle is prone to jam.
There could always be a mod or an option to show all the values. Or maybe you could get the info ingame somehow... a gun expert npc could give you a detailed comparison between two weapons for a buck.

I didn't get whats with that "level" thing. But still I can already say I don't like it at all.
Whatever the concept behind it is (might even be something fun/realistic), don't just slap "level" on top of it. It sounds like the weapon magically does more damage and can get attachments, because the weapon killed people and got "xp". Please tell me that is not the idea... Razz

I recall Flugente had a good idea in some thread... about making the calibre deceide the base range and damage, and the guns have modifiers. Nothing changes for gameplay or interface, just a more logical way to handle it interally. You should consider this.

Also, I really really hope you do a proper magazine system... i.e. don't equalize magazines & ammunition, don't make magazines appear out of thin air.
The avaibility of magazines for a specific wepaon really adds to the gameplay, and it opens a lot of possibilities with special mags (and their drawbacks, a heavy drum mag could reduce autofire accuracy since the balance of the gun is messed up)
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318596] Fri, 03 May 2013 20:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3491
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
I think their update turned out rather well. From how I interpret the stuff, they'll pretty much stick to 1.13. Not sure what they mean with 'levels' - I'll very loosely interpret this to be the 'tech' level one gets from 'research' in the base - the better your gunsmith, the better you can add hard attachments, like rails/barrels etc. Other attachments will be changeable in the field. So its the 1.13 situation, where everything could be attached quickly, apart from adding few toys that are better left to the technicians (barrel extender etc.)

@sardonic_wrath: It's propably just a quick mock-up, I wouldn't worry about the exact looks yet.

Ammo seems to go the way 1.13 is going. Like that too.

@sardonic_wrath: The caliber idea/idea of 'real' magazines is relatively hard to implement in a working system that wasn't built for it (like 1.13, where adding it would be nightmarish). If they are smart in this regard, they could prepare their code to be easily adaptable to this later. Dunno if they will, but it would be a sure way to appease the gunzerkers^^


Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318598] Fri, 03 May 2013 20:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Vortexdr

 
Messages:57
Registered:April 2013
Flugente
Not sure what they mean with 'levels' - I'll very loosely interpret this to be the 'tech' level one gets from 'research' in the base - the better your gunsmith, the better you can add hard attachments, like rails/barrels etc. Other attachments will be changeable in the field. So its the 1.13 situation, where everything could be attached quickly, apart from adding few toys that are better left to the technicians (barrel extender etc.)


From FC at kickstater comments:

Quote:
Its not the weapon itself that gets a rank, but you and your usage of it. When you constantly use the same weapon you will get familiar with it, be able to handle it better, learn that the sights are a few degrees off etc. And thats also the explaination of you "unlearning" other weapon classes if you dont maintain the skill to handle weapon X


Hehe them danes Razz
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318599] Fri, 03 May 2013 20:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Decado2

 
Messages:42
Registered:July 2002
I don't like it and it still doesn't make a lot of sense. They're forcing micromanagement on the most tedious aspect of JA2. It's not like the campaign is going to take place over 5 years where it could be understandable to "forget" how to use weapons. Also, skill improves accuracy...damage is a byproduct of that but there shouldn't be any difference in damage between a "skilled" merc who shoots the same weapon with the same bullet type into the same enemy in the same location etc. as another "unskilled" merc (besides any randomization).

Bullet system also seems dumbed-down: low damage to high damage instead of breaking it out into various levels of effectiveness vs. armored and unarmored opponents.

Anyway, the skill tree based on usage is incredibly unappealing. I pretty much ignore character development in JA2 because it was just a time waster...punishing players who just want to play the game by adding micromanagement into an already weak system is terrible.
Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318600] Fri, 03 May 2013 20:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3491
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
The only important point concerning bullets is that there will be the possibility to add variance. If they offer that (and why wouldn't they?), modders can add all the ammo type they want.

It could be that they meant various levels of effectiveness vs. armored and unarmored opponents via AP, HP, Glaser an whatnot - but did not go into detail, as its to specific for an overview post.


Re: Community Wishlist for JA:F[message #318601] Fri, 03 May 2013 20:59 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3742
Registered:July 2009
It could also be that none of them actually is a native English speaker. It looks like people tend to forget that dissecting every word for connotations and precise meaning.


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