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List of possible weapons(pre-1990)[message #321038] Tue, 28 May 2013 00:50 Go to next message
CaRNi4

 
Messages:45
Registered:August 2001
Location: NL
So I've been through a couple of websites and made a list of weapons that pre 1990 and could be added to JA:F time wise.
Got most of the info of:
- http://www.wikipedia.org (WP)
- http://world.guns.ru (WGR)
- http://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms

It's far from complete and I plan updating it from time to time.
If you have any weapon suggestions please post it in this format and I'll add them.


Year Name URL
Assault rifles
1936 M1 Garand Wiki
1942 M1 Carbine Wiki
1942 FG 42 Wiki
1943 StG 44 Wiki
1947 AK-47 Wiki
1949 CETME Wiki
1949 AKS Wiki
1951 EM-2 rifle Wiki
1954 FN FAL Wiki
1954 L1A1 Self-Loading Rifle Wiki
1956 AR-10 Wiki
1957 M14 Wiki
1958 HK G3 Wiki
1959 AKM Wiki
1963 ArmaLite AR-18 Wiki
1967 M16A1 Wiki
1968 CAR-15 Wiki
1968 HK33 Wiki
1968 HK G11 Wiki
1973 Ruger Mini-14 Wiki
1973 IMI Galil Wiki
1978 Steyr AUG A0 Wiki
1978 AK-74 Wiki
1980 SIG SG540 Wiki
1981 FAMAS F1 Wiki
1981 FARA 83 Wiki
1982 Steyr AUG A1 Wiki
1982 IMBEL MD2 Wiki
1983 M16A2 Wiki
1983 AKSU-74 Wiki
1984 Diemaco C7 Wiki
1984 SIG SG 550 Wiki
1984 SIG SG 551 Carbine Wiki
1985 Enfield L85A2 Wiki
1985 Beretta AR70/90 Wiki
1985 HK G41 Wiki
1986 AN-94 Prototype Wiki
1986 AEK-971 Prototype Wiki
1987 AS VAL Wiki
1987 Daewoo K2 Wiki
1987 Steyr ACR Wiki
1988 XM4 Prototype Wiki
1988 F88 Austeyr Wiki
1988 CIS SR-88 Wiki

Sniper Rifles
1962 Remington 700 Wiki
1963 Dragunov Wiki
1969 M21 Wiki
1972 M40A1 Wiki
1972 HK PSG-1 Wiki
1976 Zastava M76 Wiki
1982 AI L96A1 Wiki
1985 Walther WA2000 Wiki
1986 McMillan M86 Wiki
1987 VSS Vintorez Wiki
1988 Norinco QBU-88 Wiki
1988 M24 Wiki
1989 Barrett M82 Wiki

Submachineguns
1961 Skorpion vz. 61 Wiki
1966 HK MP5 Wiki
1970 Ingram MAC-10 Wiki
1974 MP5SD Wiki
1976 MP5K Wiki
1984 Spectre M4 Wiki
1985 Type 85 SMG Wiki
1988 Steyr AUG Para Wiki

Machineguns
1942 MG42 Wiki
1957 M60 Wiki
1957 Enfield L4 BREN Wiki
1958 FN MAG Wiki
1959 RPK Wiki
1961 HK 21 Wiki
1961 PKM Wiki
1965 M134 Minigun Wiki
1968 MG3 Wiki
1975 FN Minimi Wiki
1977 M240 Wiki
1984 M249 Wiki
1986 Enfield L86 LSW Wiki
1986 M60E3 Wiki

Shotguns
1983 Armsel Striker Wiki
1983 HK CAWS Wiki
1987 Pancor Jackhammer Wiki
1979 Franchi SPAS-12 Wiki

Handguns
1904 Luger P08 Wiki
1911 Colt M1911 Wiki
1931 Walter PPK Wiki
1935 Browning Hi-Power Wiki
1942 TT-33 Wiki
1942 Welrod silenced pistol Wiki WGR
1949 Beretta M1951 Wiki
1950 MAC-50 (MAS-50/PA-50) Wiki
1951 Stechkin APS Wiki
1969 Heckler & Koch P9S Wiki
1970 Raven Arms MP-25 Wiki
1973 PSM Wiki
1976 CZ 75 Wiki WGR
1979 Beretta 93R Wiki WGR
1979 Heckler & Koch P7 Wiki
1979 IMI Desert Eagle Wiki WGR
1981 Steyr GB Wiki WGR
1982 Glock 17 Wiki
1982 Glock 18 Wiki
1982 Ruger MK II Wiki
1984 Beretta 21A Bobcat Wiki
1985 Beretta 92F/M9 Wiki
1985 SIG Sauer P226 Wiki WGR
1988 Walther P-88 Wiki WGR

[Updated on: Thu, 06 June 2013 01:00] by Moderator

Re: List of possible weapons(pre-1990)[message #321241] Fri, 31 May 2013 12:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LMamone
Messages:3
Registered:May 2013
Location: Eastern Europe
I'd like to chime in regarding weapons and equipment of Soviet army.I've noticed that Javier O'Neill created AK47, which should not be part of Soviet loadout at that time frame.
AK47 was replaced by AKM/AKMS around 1959, and later in seventies AK74/AKs74.So AK47 should be in game, but not as part of Soviet army loadout.
Same can be said about some other Soviet weapons, such as RPD or SKS.
Anyway, here's the list of weapons eligible to be used by Soviets in late 80's:
Reference:
Red Alliance
World Guns
Internetz

Makarov PM -
1, 2
Stechkin APS -
It would be cool if stock could be modeled as well, like when equipped it gives you little more precision and better control of recoil during full auto sequence.
Drawback? More AP required to shoulder/ready weapon.
1, 2
PB / 6P9 silenced pistol -
1 , 2 , 3
APB / 6P13 silenced pistol -
Same as APS.
1
PSS silent pistol -
1 , 2
AKM/AKMS -
1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , 7 , 8 , 9
AK-74/ AKs-74 -
Number one assault rifle of Soviet soldiers. Both versions of full wooden stock and sidefolding steel skeleton stock.Furniture is either wooden or polymer in plum coloring.
AK74M(the black furniture version) was introduced after the fall of Soviet union.
1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , 7 , 8, 9
AKS-74U
1
AS "Val"
1, 2 , 3
SVD -
only version with laminated wood furniture qualifies.
1 , 2 , 3
VSS -
1 , 2 , 3
RPK/RPK-74
1 , 2
PKM/PKT -
1 , 2
GP-25
1, 2, 3
RPG-7
*There are lot soviet AT grenade launchers eligible for this period, although i'm not sure how many tanks and armored vehicles will be in the game.
The truth is, i'm a bit lazy to list them all, so i'll go with the legendary RPG-7 only.Feel free to add others, i can't be bothered.
1, 2
Bayonets:
Here is very elaborate info on russian AK bayonets.

Hand grenades

[Updated on: Tue, 04 June 2013 12:18] by Moderator

Re: List of possible weapons(pre-1990)[message #321248] Fri, 31 May 2013 17:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrashGordon94

 
Messages:61
Registered:May 2013
Location: England

Sgt_Rock

Shotguns
1983 Armsel Striker Wiki
1983 HK CAWS Wiki
1987 Pancor Jackhammer Wiki
1979 Franchi SPAS-12 Wiki

I will add to these...

198X Daewoo USAS-12 Wiki
1972 Atchisson Assault Shotgun Wiki (NOT the modern 2005 AA-12! Though this prototype is very similar and apparently there were better prototypes that were even closer in the 80s)
Re: List of possible weapons(pre-1990)[message #321251] Fri, 31 May 2013 18:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3802
Registered:July 2009
High cap automatic shotguns are all nice and well, but you gotta respect the classics:

Shotguns
1898 Browning Auto-5 WG
1937 Ithaca 37 WG
1950 Remington 870 WG
1961 Mossberg 500 WG
1989 Benelli M3 Wiki
#### Shotgun, generic, two barrels AL


Re: List of possible weapons(pre-1990)[message #321252] Fri, 31 May 2013 18:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gdalf

 
Messages:89
Registered:May 2013
I do hope they can model the usefulness of shotguns into JA:F. I never found a real use for them even with 1.13 except to carry them around for novelty value.
Re: List of possible weapons(pre-1990)[message #321264] Sat, 01 June 2013 15:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Cosmo Bozo

 
Messages:17
Registered:May 2013
Sgt_Rock

1983 HK CAWS Wiki
1987 Pancor Jackhammer Wiki



Well, looking at those wikis suggests that these would be pretty damn hard to get hold of, and therefore maybe they shouldn't be included

would like to see some old stuff.....



UZI web
madsen m50 web
sten web
ppsh41 web

garand web
m1 carbine web
lee enfield web
K98 web
springfield web
sks web


the more ther merrier really, and I hope it's easy for modders to keep adding them after release

[Updated on: Sat, 01 June 2013 15:29] by Moderator

Re: List of possible weapons(pre-1990)[message #321266] Sat, 01 June 2013 16:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mauser

 
Messages:781
Registered:August 2006
Location: Bavaria - Germany
gdalf
I do hope they can model the usefulness of shotguns into JA:F. I never found a real use for them even with 1.13 except to carry them around for novelty value.


Well, Shotguns are quite versatile weapons, which excel in close quarters combat. Since they can use a wide variety of different special purpose ammunition types, they can be used as effective breeching tools, signal or incendiary devices as well as non-lethal weapons. Also, they are excellent in dense jungle areas, as combat there is mostly quite up close and their spread increases the chance of hitting the target, whilst snipers are rather limited.
Also, they are extremely robust and reliable and the ammo is cheap and widespread, so maintenance cost is quite low, especially in difficult climates and terrain.
Also they are rather easy to use and thus handle quite well, giving them a bonus for quick reaction.

And with the new per-bullet suppression system in 1.13, one shotgun blast can suppress multiple enemies as effective as one machinegun or SMG salvo.
Also, the hit from a single massive shotgun slug, even if it does not reduce the HP as much, is very effective in reducing the stamina of the target, effectively rendering it increasingly immobile and unable to act with consecutive hits. Very useful to knock out heavily armored enemies for stealing or capture.

Also, thanks to the wide spread, even low marksmanship mercs have increased chances of actually hitting something with it.

I must admit, that i also tend to not use shotguns too much in 1.13, except for early game and later the semi or full auto shotguns for special close quarter carnage.

The whole point about shotguns is, to trade long range and accuracy for high damage output and larger area of effect, as well ease of use.
FC should be well able to implement them in a way that makes them useful and worthwhile within the game mechanics.

☆★GL★☆
Re: List of possible weapons(pre-1990)[message #321278] Sat, 01 June 2013 21:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LMamone
Messages:3
Registered:May 2013
Location: Eastern Europe
Here is some info on uniforms and equipment used by Soviets.Since the game's time frame corresponds with Soviet-Afghan conflict,
there's lot of cool stuff from that period that could be put into the game.
For the sake of clarity, i'm not gonna go into fine details(like certain branches used certain stuff etc). I'll only generally refer to the stuff used in Soviet military at that time.
If mods or OP feel this shouldn't be here, please move it to appropriate topic.

UNIFORMS:
M69/M88
Maybe better to go with M88, because different camo patterns( TTsKO and VSR; although these two camo patterns are considered early RusFed items )
are based on it's design/cut.Despite the nomenclature that implies that it was issued in '88, this uniform started to make it's way to Soviet Army from 1985 and was intended to
replace the old M69 by the end of 1988.
M69(LEFT) / M88(RIGHT)

KLMK
Reversible one piece camouflage oversuit.Reverse side features subdued colors and grid pattern, presumably to lessen the impact of enemy's NV devices and increase night time effectivness.
It's baggy and features foliage loops, large hood(can be worn over the helmet) and facemask.
KLMK
REVERSE
EX 1
EX 2

KZS
Another oversuit.Made of burlap-like canvas, it has minimal fire proof characteristics.It was meant to be worn over OKZK chemical protection uniform, but has seen usage as camo clothing.
Disposable, can be used as helmet cover .
KZS
MORE

Gorka

LBE:
Carrying system - From left to right:
bayonet, grenade pouch, canteen with pouch, shovel with pouch, 4 cell AK74 mag pouch.
Belt and Y-suspenders are made of rubberized canvas. Example
Chicom / Lifchik
BVD- Front , Back
Veshmeshok, loaded
RD-54

HEADGEAR:
Helmets :
SSh-68, Sfera , Altyn
Altyn and Sfera should be super rare, issued only to certain specialized troops(1337 ninja spetsnaz commando)
Panama hat
1 , 2 , 3
Kepi

FOOTWEAR:
Jackboots
Laced boots
Blue sneakers

BODY ARMOR:
Definitely not standard issue, should be a lower frequency item. Example
6Bx series:
6B1
6B2
6B3
6B4
6B5

Examples(soldiers):
1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , 7 , 8 , 9






[Updated on: Tue, 04 June 2013 12:38] by Moderator

Re: List of possible weapons(pre-1990)[message #321279] Sat, 01 June 2013 22:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3802
Registered:July 2009
Inspired by the above post: ALICE was around and well established at that time. That means we can have a modular LBE system from the outset Smile


Re: List of possible weapons(pre-1990)[message #321284] Sun, 02 June 2013 00:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Slax

 
Messages:1435
Registered:July 2006
Location: People riding polar bears...
Perhaps the occasional non-local friendly weapons dealer could be a thing, yes? :goodnews:

Re: List of possible weapons(pre-1990)[message #321322] Mon, 03 June 2013 15:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lafayette

 
Messages:5
Registered:June 2013
Location: French Republic
Quote:
I'd like to chime in regarding weapons and equipment of Soviet army.I've noticed that Javier O'Neill created AK47, which should not be part of Soviet loadout at that time frame.
AK47 was replaced by AKM/AKMS around 1959, and later in seventies AK74/AKs74.So AK47 should be in game, but not as part of Soviet army loadout.
Same can be said about some other Soviet weapons, such as RPD or SKS.


"Replace", it's for soldiers, the professionals, the fighters. But everybody need a weapon in army. Wink
Drivers, engineers, radio-operators, etc...
This personnels stay with old guns, the old reserve.
And especially in countries who know conscription, because it's many people and a lot of money.

After, States must think about possible war too, and preserve always an important stock.
In the beginning of WWII, many guns was of the previous war, and the equipment too, in Pacific in particular.
And more recently, some MP-40 (the old nazi SMG) were used one more time in 1999 by Kosovars.

Finally, old weapons are perfects for undercover agents, because AK-47 is the weapon of everybody, and so, the weapon of anybody too. Smile

In fact, "replace", it's generally years, years and years. Wink

---------------

But now, it's my turn, and I have a sadistic attraction for saturday night specials (Derringer/pockets guns), oldies (most of 1.13) and strange things.

Enjoy !
Or not...

--------------

SINGLE-SHOT PISTOLS

- 1942 FP-45 Liberator Wiki
- 1964 Deer Gun Wiki

DOUBLE ACTION PISTOL

- 1983 COP .357 Derringer Wiki

SEMI-AUTOMATIC PISTOLS

- 1904 Luger P08 Wiki
- 1911 Colt M1911 Wiki
- 1931 Walter PPK Wiki
- 1942 TT-33 Wiki
- 1950 MAC-50 (MAS-50/PA-50) Wiki
- 1970 Raven Arms MP-25 Wiki
- 1973 PSM Wiki
- 1984 Beretta 21A Bobcat Wiki

UNDERWATER PISTOLS

- 1970 Mk1 UDG Wiki
- 1971 SPP-1 Wiki
- 1976 HK P11 Wiki

COMBINATION GUN

- 1986 TP-82 Wiki

ASSAUT RIFLES

- 1956 Type 56 Wiki
- 1980 R4 Wiki

UNDERWATER ASSAULT RIFLE

- 1975 APS Wiki

SNIPER RIFLES

- 1966 FR-F1 Wiki
- 1984 FR-F2 Wiki

LIGHT MACHINE GUNS

- 1928 DP-28 Wiki
- 1945 RPD Wiki

SUBMACHINE GUNS

- 1940 MP 40 Wiki
- 1941 PPSh-41 Wiki
- 1942 PPS-43 Wiki
- 1949 MAT-49 Wiki
- 1954 Vigneron Wiki
- 1956 Franchi LF-57 Wiki
- 1956 Sterling L2A3 Wiki
- 1960 American-180 Wiki

PUMP-ACTION GRENADE LAUNCHER

- 1968 China Lake Model Wiki
Re: List of possible weapons(pre-1990)[message #321325] Mon, 03 June 2013 16:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
LMamone
Messages:3
Registered:May 2013
Location: Eastern Europe
AK-74 was introduced as standard rifle fairly quickly, possibly due to design and production similarities with older models.

Not having to redesign the whole weapon from the scratch sped up the entire manufacturing process.

About 1911: We're gonna have a drug cartel faction in this game, right?Well then this is what needs to be in the game, as weapon of cartel's head honcho.

Srsly.

[Updated on: Mon, 03 June 2013 16:12] by Moderator

Re: List of possible weapons(pre-1990)[message #321378] Wed, 05 June 2013 02:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrashGordon94

 
Messages:61
Registered:May 2013
Location: England

DepressivesBrot
High cap automatic shotguns are all nice and well, but you gotta respect the classics:

Shotguns
1898 Browning Auto-5 WG
1937 Ithaca 37 WG
1950 Remington 870 WG
1961 Mossberg 500 WG
1989 Benelli M3 Wiki
#### Shotgun, generic, two barrels AL


Totally agree! I'll support all those and raise you another classic shotty!

1887 Winchester Model 1887 Wiki (Specifically a 10 Gauge version, since that'd be a bit of a cool difference!)

Also, I think I'll suggest some HANDGUNS while I'm at it!

1955 Colt Python Wiki
1955 Smith & Wesson Model 29 Wiki
???? Taurus Raging Bull Wiki (Not sure if this would be anachronistic or not, would be cool if it IS in the right timeframe though)
1982 Ruger MK II Wiki
1929? Walther PPK Wiki (perhaps as this game's "beginner pistol", like JA2's .38 Special? Maybe best to pick a non-9mm model of the gun, though...)

Well, I'll probably come up with more suggestions later, if anyone's interested, but that it's for now for me.

[Updated on: Wed, 05 June 2013 02:09] by Moderator

Re: List of possible weapons(pre-1990)[message #321398] Thu, 06 June 2013 01:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CaRNi4

 
Messages:45
Registered:August 2001
Location: NL
I kinda forgot about this thread ^_^. Thanks for the suggestions. Added a couple of handguns.
Re: List of possible weapons(pre-1990)[message #321406] Thu, 06 June 2013 08:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kaerar

 
Messages:2079
Registered:January 2003
Location: Australia :D
Personally I'd love to see a couple of Kar98K's and Mosin Nagant's in there for some old rifle's in farmsteads/weapon lockers of collectors that you would expect in places like the Hicks farm and Balime from JA2.

A few very very rare (perhaps single find?) prototype or special variants of weapons like the G11, CAWS, Pancor Jackhammer, or customised weapons like the dual pistols given by the Chitzena rescue quest in JA2. Those little touches of uniqueness make a game have much more depth IMO.

Seeing as clothing is now a part of the game, I'd also suggest the same for rare items, like say a Sam Fisher style Stealth Suit or whatever Smile


Re: List of possible weapons(pre-1990)[message #321960] Tue, 25 June 2013 01:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Akodo Deathseeker

 
Messages:104
Registered:March 2001
Location: St Paul, MN
I don't see this one mentioned.

Carl Gustav!

No no no, not the rocket launcher, the Carl Gustav M/45 SMG.

It's a 9mm SMG designed in the closing days of WW2. Has a 36 round magazine. It was found to be incredibly reliable rugged and accurate. It could survive dusty gritty deserts and frozen snowscapes with ease.

A lot of small countries picked it up, including Ireland. A few countries got permission to make clones of it. Many countries simply looked at the design and created very similar but slightly different guns.

It was found in conflicts all over the globe.

When the USA wanted to have some of their clandestine operators in Vietnam (and those who were operating across the border in Laos, Cambodia, etc.) have non-American uniforms and weapons, they selected the Carl Gustav as the best gun for the job. Well, the Swedes wouldn't sell because they disagreed with what the US was doing, so the US had Smith and Wesson basically make a copy. This was the Smith and Wesson 76.

Smith and Wesson had no qualms about selling to non US groups AND to US civilians who had the money and connections for the tax stamp that allows full auto ownership.

If you want a classic mercenary weapon, this is it. If you want a classic 'Mercenary with ties to the USA but trying to keep that connection as hidden as possible' then it is an even more clear choice.

wikipedia

WG Carl Gustav

WG S&W copy, the M76

[Updated on: Tue, 25 June 2013 01:38] by Moderator

Re: List of possible weapons(pre-1990)[message #322040] Wed, 26 June 2013 02:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrashGordon94

 
Messages:61
Registered:May 2013
Location: England

Oh, I forgot a biggie!
How about one or more multiple-shot Grenade Launchers like the Hawk MM1 or the Milkor MGL series?
I haven't got far in JA2 yet but I'm looking forward to GLs... And I'm kinda disappointed because it looks like the game only has single-shot ones (the "Talon" and the M79).
A few things to note though:
1) I'm guessing they'd have to be loaded one round at a time, which would probably be tactical suicide during a battle, so you'd probably need to load it when there aren't any baddies around and hope your 'nades last long enough.
2) I'm also guessing 1.13 might've already done something like this already, in which case I apologise for redundancy.
3) Someone already mentioned the China Lake launcher, which would also be good by me! Given a choice, I'd rather have my GL merc use one of the revolver types mentioned above but I'd be more than happy to have the China Lake in my arsenal!
Re: List of possible weapons(pre-1990)[message #322077] Wed, 26 June 2013 15:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2020
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
You are right on 2); 1.13 has multi-shot GLs like Milkor.
Re: List of possible weapons(pre-1990)[message #322089] Wed, 26 June 2013 19:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrashGordon94

 
Messages:61
Registered:May 2013
Location: England

Ah, expected as much.
Would be cool to see them "return" then!

P.S. I'm guessing they load one shell at a time in 1.13, right?
Re: List of possible weapons(pre-1990)[message #322096] Wed, 26 June 2013 20:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2020
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
Depends on version and attachment system one is playing; OAS uses 6shot mags whereas in NAS you can load 6 single nades (of different types if you want to).

You should take a look at 1.13 after having played vanilla JA2 ... Smile
Re: List of possible weapons(pre-1990)[message #322103] Thu, 27 June 2013 02:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrashGordon94

 
Messages:61
Registered:May 2013
Location: England

Sam_Hotte
Depends on version and attachment system one is playing; OAS uses 6shot mags whereas in NAS you can load 6 single nades (of different types if you want to).

Those stand for Old Attachment System and New Attachment System, right? Also, thanks.

Sam_Hotte
You should take a look at 1.13 after having played vanilla JA2 ... Smile

I most certainly plan to! Can't say I'm not a little intimidated and confused by the complexities of it though...

On a relevant note, I got hit by an even bigger biggie!
RELOADABLE ROCKET LAUNCHERS!!
Now, carrying a launcher and a bunch of rockets in case you come across a particularly stubborn tank (or just so you don't have to find another launcher or give them to several mercs in cases of multiple tanks) might not be easy, but it certainly seems more feasible than lugging around several LAWs...
Some versions of the RPG-7 are reloadable but the weapons list on the 1.13 Wiki seems to suggest that the one featured there isn't, since it lists no ammo for it, just like the LAW. Sad
The RPG-7 already seems to be confirmed (as it should be), so I very much hope it's a reloadable one.
Re: List of possible weapons(pre-1990)[message #322105] Thu, 27 June 2013 02:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3339
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
I don't know which wiki you are referring to, but it seems to be way outdated. The RPG-7 in 1.13 is reloadable since... ages.


Re: List of possible weapons(pre-1990)[message #322106] Thu, 27 June 2013 02:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3802
Registered:July 2009
Then that wiki list is meh. The RPG-7 can be loaded with various grenades. Several other RPGs are Russian equivalents of the LAW though.


Re: List of possible weapons(pre-1990)[message #322117] Thu, 27 June 2013 05:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Akodo Deathseeker

 
Messages:104
Registered:March 2001
Location: St Paul, MN
Another gun that I think would be great would be some of 'contract mausers' pr other WW2 gun rechambered in 7.62 NATO.

I am expecting this game to have the G3A3, FN-FAL, and M-14 (and possibly the AR-10) in 7.62 NATO.

When this cartridge was adopted as NATO standard, many countries didn't have the the money to immediately set up a new gun factory or place a contract with countries who were already making guns in the chosen chambering. For about 50 years before WW 2, tons of countries had contracts to make Mauser bolt action rifles. After WW2 a lot of countries converted their old Mausers into 7.62 NATO as an intermediate step toward re-arming their militaries into something more modern.

When these countries did finally finish rearming into something more modern (often the G3A3 or FN-FAL)then these guns got dumped on the secondary market, just the kind of guns a Merc would end up with.

So, I'd love to see the FR-7 and FR-8, Chilean Mauser, heck India made a pile of Ishapore Enfields in 7.62 NATO with 23 round mags. These are the guns you'd see in third world weapons markets.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FR8
http://world.guns.ru/rifle/repeating-rifle/sp/fr-7-fr--e.html
Re: List of possible weapons(pre-1990)[message #322118] Thu, 27 June 2013 05:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Akodo Deathseeker

 
Messages:104
Registered:March 2001
Location: St Paul, MN
CrashGordon94

On a relevant note, I got hit by an even bigger biggie!
RELOADABLE ROCKET LAUNCHERS!!
Now, carrying a launcher and a bunch of rockets in case you come across a particularly stubborn tank (or just so you don't have to find another launcher or give them to several mercs in cases of multiple tanks) might not be easy, but it certainly seems more feasible than lugging around several LAWs...


Just remember that a LAW is a 5 pound rocket in a 0.5 pound launcher that can only be used once. The RPG-7 is a 5 pound rocket in a 15 pound launcher that can be reused.

Carrying 3 LAW launchers is better than carrying one reloadable RPG-7 and 3 rockets.

So, hauling around multiple LAWs is better than hauling around a single multishot launcher. (plus, you can give one rocket to each merc and you spread the anti-armor capability around whereas a reusable laucher, you can have all the mercs carry a spare round or two but only the one with the launcher can eliminate the tank. What if he gets killed?)

Let's say a LAW would cost $1000 to buy at the gun store. Then the RPG-7 would cost $500 and each rocket would cost $900.

There really is a lot of sense in having one-use rocket launchers. Now, I'm not saying the RPG-7 or various other rocket launchers shouldn't be included...I'm just staying that set up properly finding some LAWs would be an UPGRADE.

The one advantage the RPG-7 system has is that there are a wide variety of different types of rockets you can select from. Of course if you have to pack a couple of each of the 6 different rockets that would be a pain.

Of course the common RPG seen in the hands of the NVA etc was really the older RPG-2 not the RPG-7, and it only had one style of rocket.

Now, an interesting launcher would be that 4 round launcher you see in the movie Commando.

Problem is....that thing was designed around incendiary rounds (although it was supposed to be able to fire the same anti-armor rocket as the LAW) and these rounds had a reputation for igniting on their own. That has a lot of potential!

Think of a gunfight breaking out and all of a sudden one of Derianna's elite troops catches on fire and you didn't even do anything! (of course imagine YOUR mercs decided to use it and managed to light themselves on fire!)

http://images.wikia.com/uncyclopedia/images/6/64/Arnie_rocket_launcher.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkFU7o3IAaM

http://world.guns.ru/grenade/usa/m202-flash-e.html

[Updated on: Thu, 27 June 2013 05:41] by Moderator

Re: List of possible weapons(pre-1990)[message #322121] Thu, 27 June 2013 10:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3802
Registered:July 2009
It gets crazier when you look at the Carl Gustav - each round is heavier than a LAW, there isn't even a theoretical point where you break even.
However, what saves the reuseables is ammo variety and possibly payload and capability. I'll have to check on the latter though.


Re: List of possible weapons(pre-1990)[message #322130] Thu, 27 June 2013 19:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
EXile 150 Abyss

 
Messages:139
Registered:September 2009
The weight is a factor but if range, accuracy and damage are taken into account.

From what I've read the Gustav packs a heck of a punch as does the RPG7 more than the Law.
The Gustav even has a range of 700m against stationary targets compared to the 150m (350m on later models) of the Law.
Re: List of possible weapons(pre-1990)[message #322400] Wed, 03 July 2013 21:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrashGordon94

 
Messages:61
Registered:May 2013
Location: England

...I did not know that about the Rocket weights/prices actually, that actually gives me a new perspective on the whole thing, thanks!
Now, thing is, 3 LAWs may weigh less than a RPG-7 and three Rockets for it but wouldn't it still take up more physical room? I'm guessing that would definitely be an issue if Flashback is gonna use an LBE-based inventory system like 1.13 or something similar. Hell, even if it's just like Vanilla JA2, I'm guessing it might be an issue if a launcher takes up one of those "long" slots (which it absolutely would!) and a Rocket takes up one of those "short" slots (more doubtful, but I'm still guessing it would).
Also, the different rocket types thing is a good point too, also one I didn't know about (still don't fully grasp what kind of different rockets there are for RPGs) but it's still a definitely handy upside for the RPG even if you can't hold multiples of all of them at once.
Lastly, I'd make the RPG the reloadable version even if it's worse than a disposable LAW, because if nothing else it makes them different, whereas it wouldn't be as significant a difference between the two if they were both disposable.

And thanks for mentioning the M202 FLASH! I was gonna mention it myself, as it would be VERY interesting and different but definitely plausible. Seems like there could be all sorts of neat tactical things you could do with its special capabilities! Besides just setting people on fire you could possibly have stuff like burning down buildings, smoking people out or setting fire to an area to stop enemies coming through it (or killling them with fire if they're dumb enough to go through anyway). Those first two alternate things would be tricky to program and such but the last one is a fairly natural thing.
Re: List of possible weapons(pre-1990)[message #322403] Thu, 04 July 2013 01:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3802
Registered:July 2009
Actually, no. A folded LAW should take roughly the same space as a PG-something, those things are pretty oddly shaped clubs.
Basically, the RPG-7 (and similar reusable launchers) wins out in only two categories:
1) Penetration. Depending on the vehicles encountered and the attention paid to this, a LAW would force you to advance to a flanking position while the more powerful launcher may penetrate even the frontal glacis.
2) Dedicated anti personnel rounds.


Re: List of possible weapons(pre-1990)[message #322406] Thu, 04 July 2013 02:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CrashGordon94

 
Messages:61
Registered:May 2013
Location: England

Wow, I stand corrected again then, thanks.
Re: List of possible weapons(pre-1990)[message #322422] Fri, 05 July 2013 00:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Akodo Deathseeker

 
Messages:104
Registered:March 2001
Location: St Paul, MN
Realize that the bit you see sticking out of an RPG-2 or RPG-7 is just the warhead, and is NOT the entirety of the rocket

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/33/RPG-7_detached.jpg/800px-RPG-7_detached.jpg

As far as the different warheads go, think about it for a minute. How do you think rockets penetrate armored vehicles? Is it just a big explosion?

No.

To penetrate armor you actually have to use a shaped charge that propels particles at hypersonic velocity which cuts through the armor the way a high pressure stream of water would cut through a dirt wall.

If it detonates a little too close this stream cannot form, if it detonates a bit too far away the stream peters out and doesn't have the strength to cut through. We are talking a matter of inches.

This allows people to put rolls of barbed wire or rolls of chain link fence on armored vehicles. The warhead hits that and blows up too far away so it cannot cut through.

The counter to this is a second type of warhead, one that skips one big charge for a pair of explosive, one to blow up anything that might be encountered first, and a second that detonates a thousandth of a second later and blasts through the armor.

Now, contrary to TV and movies, a warhead designed to driver supersonic stream of material to cut through armor is using it's explosive power in a very controlled way, so it doesn't really make a good anti-personnel round. Yea, you don't want to get hit by one, but people as little as 5-6 feet away often survive the blast. So a third type of warhead is a giant grenade. It would only scratch the paint of a tank, but it will send out fragments to 20 feet, giving it a much bigger kill blast.

Another type of anti person warhead packs a payload of 'fuel' and inside it an explosive which spreads the fuel out and ignites it. This makes a big flameball which also reaches out about as far as a standard antipersonel warhead, but it uses the oxygen in the air, which means if fired into a cave or bunker it will eat all the oxygen so people inside who may be far enough back to get only minor burns or even no burns will suffocate.
Re: List of possible weapons(pre-1990)[message #322429] Fri, 05 July 2013 15:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wolf00

 
Messages:1147
Registered:September 2006
Location: Czech Republic

sa vz 58 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vz._58 [1959]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CZ_75 cz 75 pistol [1975]

http://www.cz-usa.com/products/view/cz-75-tactical/ http://www.cz-usa.com/products/view/czechmate/ two sporting variant

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CZ_82 cz 82[1983]

berreta m951[1950] http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg/it/beretta-951-e.html there is some from my country

Re: List of possible weapons(pre-1990)[message #322430] Fri, 05 July 2013 15:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3802
Registered:July 2009
You're not about to post all your 456 bazillion handguns now, are ye?


Re: List of possible weapons(pre-1990)[message #322432] Fri, 05 July 2013 15:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wolf00

 
Messages:1147
Registered:September 2006
Location: Czech Republic

open your eyes! there is no reason to ingnoring guns from my country.. i dont care if calling it hell hole!
db:im not your friend or emeny,please dont take i personaly,you are begin too much personal .... if have something to say.. feel free to send me some pm ....

[Updated on: Fri, 05 July 2013 15:36] by Moderator

Re: List of possible weapons(pre-1990)[message #322435] Fri, 05 July 2013 16:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3802
Registered:July 2009
I got nothing against you or your country, but you do have a tendency to get carried away into posting large amounts of essentially identical pistols over time.


Re: List of possible weapons(pre-1990)[message #322436] Fri, 05 July 2013 16:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wolf00

 
Messages:1147
Registered:September 2006
Location: Czech Republic

topic name is: List of possible weapons(pre-1990) weapons on my links fit nicely in this timeframe ... nothing else.. ok i wish have this one in 1.13 for years...

http://www.hungariae.com/Toka58.htm year 1958

[Updated on: Fri, 05 July 2013 16:17] by Moderator

Re: List of possible weapons(pre-1990)[message #322438] Fri, 05 July 2013 16:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3802
Registered:July 2009
Sure, just keep it reasonable.


Re: List of possible weapons(pre-1990)[message #322445] Fri, 05 July 2013 21:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wolf00

 
Messages:1147
Registered:September 2006
Location: Czech Republic

here is candidates
after some search on net: pistols:
steyr gb[9x19 year 1981] http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg/at/steyr-gb-e.html

walther p5 [9x19 year 1978] http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg/de/walther-p5-e.html

star model b[9x19 year 1920-30] http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg/sp/star-a-b-b-super-p-e.html

colt ssp [9x19 year 1985] very rare only few prototypes are produced http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg/usa/colt-ssp-e.html

sig sauer p210 [9x19 year around 1938] http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg/switch/sig-p210-e.html

daewoo dp-51 [9x19 year 1990] http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg/skor/daewoo-dp-51-e.html

submachine guns http://world.guns.ru/smg/braz/mekanika-uru-e.html [9x19 year 1975]

walther mpl/mpk [9x19 year 1963] http://world.guns.ru/smg/de/walther-mpl-e.html

rifles: mas 36[7.5x54 1929] http://world.guns.ru/rifle/repeating-rifle/fr/mas-36-e.html

fn 1949[year 1949] http://world.guns.ru/rifle/autoloading-rifles/be/fn-safn-49-e.html

t65& t86[5.56x45 nato] http://world.guns.ru/assault/taiw/t65-t6-t91-e.html

machineguns:lewis mark3E[watercooling removed] http://world.guns.ru/machine/brit/lewis-e.html

vickers g.o[1928] http://world.guns.ru/machine/brit/vickers-go-machine-gun-e.html

mac 1924/29 [7.5x54 1929] http://world.guns.ru/machine/fr/mac-m1924-e.html

vzor 1952/57[year 1952-1960] http://world.guns.ru/machine/chex/vz52-and-52-57-e.html

vzor 1959[late 1950] http://world.guns.ru/machine/chex/vz59-uk-vz59-e.html

vector ss-77[7.62x51/5.56x45 year 1986] http://world.guns.ru/machine/safr/vector-ss-77-and-mini-ss-e.html

anti tank weapons:
simonov ptrs[year 1941]http://world.guns.ru/atr/rus/simonov-ptrs-e.html

h&k 69[1974] http://world.guns.ru/grenade/de/hk69-e.html
h&k 79[fit on g3 & fn fal] http://world.guns.ru/grenade/de/hk79-e.html

bazooka m1/m9 [year 1942] http://world.guns.ru/grenade/usa/bazooka-m1-m1a1-m9-m9a1-e.html
super bazooka m20 [1950] http://world.guns.ru/grenade/usa/super-bazooka-m20-e.html

piat [1943] http://world.guns.ru/grenade/united-kingdom/piat-e.html

rpg vz 75 http://www.saafmuseum.org/armament/310-rpg-75
all fit in timeframe some may be exotic ...

arulco is third world country, i think you can select norinco clones for cheap prizes ..

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Norinco_NDM-86#Norinco_NDM-86

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Type_69_RPG#Type_69 these is a excample ... sorry for long post .....






[Updated on: Fri, 05 July 2013 21:50] by Moderator

Re: List of possible weapons(pre-1990)[message #322446] Fri, 05 July 2013 21:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3802
Registered:July 2009
Since you emphasized the thread title before:
wolf00
bull m5[9x19 year 1991]http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg/isr/bul-m5-e.html
vector sp1[9x19 year 1992] http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg/safr/vektor-sp1-and-sp2-e.html
daewoo dp-51 [9x19 year 1990] http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg/skor/daewoo-dp-51-e.html
ots-01 [9x18 year 1990]

Razz
Don't take my posts too serious.

[Updated on: Fri, 05 July 2013 21:25] by Moderator



Re: List of possible weapons(pre-1990)[message #322448] Fri, 05 July 2013 21:28 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
wolf00

 
Messages:1147
Registered:September 2006
Location: Czech Republic

ok some do not fit... i looked on them later ...
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