Home » OTHER STRATEGY » JA3 Wish List » What *everyone* would actually like to see:
What *everyone* would actually like to see:[message #3146] Thu, 15 April 2004 08:51 Go to next message
Alpha Male

 
Messages:29
Registered:April 2004
Ok,maybe im presuming too mutch,but it just dawned to me,as a logical conclusion to all the posting ive read here:

What JA3 (or another game like it) could and should be is what "Neverwinter Nights" became for the Crpg
Re: What *everyone* would actually like to see:[message #3147] Thu, 15 April 2004 11:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255

 
Messages:1834
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
A user friendly total game editor would be a dream come true! The Beta editor and all the other tools are very cool (and god bless the folks that put their time towards these goodies) but they are very time consuming. I still enjoy working with them but something less glitchy and more adaptable would produce a flood of cool mods from everywhere. I believe that is one of the primary goals of the source code people and I really hope they make this happen, the rewards will benefit all of us.
Re: What *everyone* would actually like to see:[message #3148] Thu, 15 April 2004 22:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alpha Male

 
Messages:29
Registered:April 2004
Again,im not putting my faith in the Old game,hoever modded the might manage to do it.it just wanst built from scratc for that level of flexibilty in mind,and let
Re: What *everyone* would actually like to see:[message #3149] Fri, 16 April 2004 12:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255

 
Messages:1834
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
Well, there we have a fundamental difference of opinion. I don't see Ja2 as an 'old' game, chronology is irrelevant. The gameplay is inspired and far superior to anything I've seen in computer games.
3d would be cool if it allowed for tarain gradients. An improved AI would be much better as would countless other additions. I drive a 69 F250 and am a firm believer in "If it aint broke, don't fix it" meaning I don't need something to be new to be useful. If I want power windows I'll put the stupid things in but I rather like things that work EVERY TIME you need them to so....
Well, anyway I think you know what I mean here. If they build Ja3 I'll run right out and buy it even if everyone tells me it sucks (I bought Ja2 after reading the box) and I'm sure lots of others will. But I'm pretty sure the guys working with the code will pproduce something at least as good.
Re: What *everyone* would actually like to see:[message #3150] Fri, 16 April 2004 22:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
qL67o0j7

 
Messages:181
Registered:March 2004
Yes, it's a question of gameplay.
JA has nearly perfect gameplay (for those who like this kind of game). The only thing which has gotten old is the graphic engine; But you still can make nice things in isometric bitmap (Baldur's Everything, and many other games like that).
If you change the low screen resolution, make new hi-res tiles, and finaly do something about the only 2 possible height levels, you're already on a par with several modern strategic/tacical games.
Re: What *everyone* would actually like to see:[message #3151] Fri, 16 April 2004 23:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alpha Male

 
Messages:29
Registered:April 2004
Ok,ok,where to start here:
Kurt and Khor,you both expressed valid points there.
Except for one thing:JA2 was probably the best game of it
Re: What *everyone* would actually like to see:[message #3152] Sat, 17 April 2004 00:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
qL67o0j7

 
Messages:181
Registered:March 2004
No, you're right, and the overall idea to build an engine made for modding, like the NWN engine, is a good one; The problem is (IMHO) that it will be far easier to make something (anything) out of the existing game engine, than to start from scratch.

The devs aren't getting paid, everyone works on his free time, and we don't want to game to be released in 10 years from now either (it would again be obsolete). So it's rather an "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" case.
Unless of course someone drops a long-term financing out of his sleeve, and a good contract with an editor, to get the future game some serious distribution (see the problems Wildfire is facing).
Re: What *everyone* would actually like to see:[message #3153] Sat, 17 April 2004 00:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dagger

 
Messages:58
Registered:January 2003
Location: Brazil

JA2 is one thing. JA3 is another thing. Both things can walk along together.

So, JA2 source code project will do greatly fine by adding infinite possibilities (even multi-play) to the game.

But, JA3 with another engine could reach the infinite too, thus by offering better boosteable options for modders and players.

It sounds just clear for me.
Re: What *everyone* would actually like to see:[message #3154] Sat, 17 April 2004 04:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alpha Male

 
Messages:29
Registered:April 2004
Whoaaa,horsy....
Look i talk about JA3 beind done in the same format engine, not being suited i mean as a commertial offer by SF or any professional company.
I have not,and never meant to knock down the efforts of the modding/fan community.im a modder myself (altough my work so far is in Nwn,modeller and texturing.)And implications that i would do so is one i will deeply resent.
To be clear once and for all:
A)when a new,*comertial* made Jagged Alliance comes out,it really needs to be something really new.otherwise im not shelling out cash.i will not tolerate from a Gaming company anything less that top of the line work,they arent doing anything else besides developing the game,and have supposedly qualified professional being payed to develop it (i hope).so waht may be tottaly acceptable as a mod or fan-based or sure as hell aint qhen it comes to the major leagues!
Beacause,as you pointed out,fans havent got the butjet,skills and time to do a lot more than they have so far (wich has been a lot given the inumerous limitations,my hat off to you people.)

Dude,sounds youre so desperate you
Re: What *everyone* would actually like to see:[message #3155] Sat, 17 April 2004 04:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alpha Male

 
Messages:29
Registered:April 2004
PS:when it comes to the real deal I do not compromise.Give me something worthwhile or nothing at all.because olny what has true quality is something worth having...i can certainly do whidouth crap in my life,so matter how cheap or available.or how cool the Original deal it
Re: What *everyone* would actually like to see:[message #3156] Sat, 17 April 2004 05:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dagger

 
Messages:58
Registered:January 2003
Location: Brazil

With so many fans giving new ideas, and discussing to the bone what is already done, I guess a possible JA3 will only go wrong in case the programers be blind ! But, since they put their words here at this forum I don
Re: What *everyone* would actually like to see:[message #3157] Sat, 17 April 2004 08:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alpha Male

 
Messages:29
Registered:April 2004
Yup,they are not blind and they are not iliterate.what they might be is indiferent knowing that we we will buy pretty mutch anything with the title "Jagged Alliance" on it...(most of us).
Re: What *everyone* would actually like to see:[message #3158] Sat, 17 April 2004 11:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255

 
Messages:1834
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
What I was saying is that I've been playing Ja2 since '99 and thanks to the modders haven't got bored with it yet. In that time I've bought and several 'cutting edge' games and played even more that friends insisted were great. I always come back to Ja2 pretty much to the exclusion of all other video games. This is due to the fact that the gameplay far superior both in simplicity and realistic accuracy to any other RPG made for computers.
This system is flawed yes, but obsolete? NO WAY!! Any improvement to; for instance, remove the glitches or increase player options I would praise to the high heavens. But a total reworking of the tactical engine would most likely be frought with 'improvements' that bastardise a great system.
We all want to see Ja3 be made. As for myself, I'll buy it even if it is a turkey if only as a thank you to the folks who created Ja2. But; as has already been said, unless the designers are blind or lacking internet service they will most likely follow the advice of the several fan sites and not try to fix what ain't broke.
Re: What *everyone* would actually like to see:[message #3159] Sat, 17 April 2004 13:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alpha Male

 
Messages:29
Registered:April 2004
Dan,(if i may call you that),i can understand your worries:
Yes,a lot of good games have been ruined because someone decided they could could do "improvements" and managed to send it to hell.
but as you also pointed out,they read these forums and know that JA gamers value the gameplay aspect dearly...personally i dont see reworking that aspect for the worse (but wont swear).it
Re: What *everyone* would actually like to see:[message #3160] Sun, 18 April 2004 12:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255

 
Messages:1834
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
Amen. But I will buy Ja3 whatever it is. After all, even after the god awful cheesy "Luke, I am you faather." scene in Empire Strikes Back I still sat through the next turd Lucas squeesed out.
I'm glad you say you still love Ja2. You had me a little confused with all that obsolescense talk. I want this game upgraded, but too many times an 'improvement' results in more superfluous graphics upgrading at the expense of tactical aspects.
One of the things I'm most worried about is that they will change the game controls to more 'hot key' dependant functions. A great thing about Ja2 is that you can play the game almost entirely without touching you're keyboard. More importantly you can put the game down for months and don't have to reorient youreself with an overly complicated set of controls.
Well, rambling again so...
Re: What *everyone* would actually like to see:[message #3161] Mon, 19 April 2004 12:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alpha Male

 
Messages:29
Registered:April 2004
Dan,I do love this game:otherwise i wouldnt care less if it was getting a (good)sequel or not.
there are two types of games a like:
-Tactical Turn base combat.
-Roleplaying games.
since the two merge, what
Re: What *everyone* would actually like to see:[message #3162] Mon, 19 April 2004 12:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alpha Male

 
Messages:29
Registered:April 2004
PS:you saw SW:ESB on the big screen???how old are you???*L*(im 24)
Re: What *everyone* would actually like to see:[message #3163] Mon, 19 April 2004 20:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255

 
Messages:1834
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
Well, as I've said in other topics all they would need to do to send me out to the store is make a new storyline, new characters, and a new gameworld. Could be another present day or slightly in the future concept on another part of the world or an entirely different timeline, plot, or even planet.
What I'd really like to see is a system pretty much exactly like Ja2 become the standard engine for a series of games. I'd buy every one. For $25, $35 maybe even $50 without any upgrade to the engine whatsoever. This; I believe, is where we disagree. That's cool. I don't want to debate opinions.
I also am pretty sure whoever has the Ja coptwrite at the moment won't settle for just a new story or a few new features. It strikes me that someone with enough taste to buy up the rights to this game probably has something pretty big in mind for it. We can only hope that he doesn't turn Escape From New York into Escape From LA, The Warriors into Boyz in the Hood, or Planet of the Apes in to some Tim Burton crock of dog pie.
Seriously though, my main point here is this system has the potential (and I dare say right) to be the 'industry standard' for this genre. Unless they drop the ball either in taste or mass appeal. The latter concerns me far less than the former. But I'm just greedy.
Re: What *everyone* would actually like to see:[message #3164] Mon, 19 April 2004 23:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alpha Male

 
Messages:29
Registered:April 2004
I guess when JA3 comes out,we shall see whose fears/wishes came true,hopefully we both get to be pleased with it.
Re: What *everyone* would actually like to see:[message #3165] Tue, 20 April 2004 12:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DaCheetah

 
Messages:78
Registered:March 2004
Location: New Mexico... Cleaner Tha...

I wish an English teacher would read this thread... I've seen bad grammar, and generally don't comment, but JESUS CHRIST.

On Topic:
JA3 will be bought by nearly everyone here, most likely regardless if it sucks or not. Hell, even if they posted on this forum that it was crap people would still buy it. It's kind of a twisted nobless oblige, we owe it to SirTech or the new producer to buy it, just because the greatness of JA2 was just so... great.

Certainly a highly modable JA3 would be gorgeous, but I think then the game will suffer from a major problem, lack of any basic gameplay. Sure, everyone and their mother would be able to mod it, but the problems would lie in the original, there just wouldn't be any substance. Plus you would wind up with a ton of shitty mods, polluting the current one which is by far the best in the gaming community. Perhaps a JA3 could be developed, then an editing pack later introduced, so as to not detract from the elements of JA2 that we love so much.

IF JA3 comes out is more of a question than HOW it should come out. I think our time would be better spent praying below a crucifix for its release than arguing how it should be released.

Just my thoughts.
Re: What *everyone* would actually like to see:[message #3166] Tue, 20 April 2004 14:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255

 
Messages:1834
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
Swell grammar dude.
I don't get the relation between a game being easily moddable and restricted or depleated gameplay? What?
Have you considered the fact that if Ja3 is easier to mod it will produce a volume of mods of all quality? A well thought out mod takes time but the actual task of working the utilities borders on excrutiating. Try working with the Beta Editor designing a map that takes hours only to have it refuse to load due to a runtime error! Anything that facilitates easier more accurate creation surely cannot be a bad thing.
As for talking about various hopes for the next incarnation of Ja, I feel this is one of the more valuable uses of this forum. If the current owner of the franchise takes any heed to what the fan base says it can only be of help to the community in general.
But I'll also try praying.
Re: What *everyone* would actually like to see:[message #3167] Tue, 20 April 2004 17:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alpha Male

 
Messages:29
Registered:April 2004
Ahem,Cheetah,i tought the whole point of this part of the forum was to discuss JA3?gee guess you proved us all wrong,now didnt you?
As of the spelling,english isnt my native language (would love to see your french,spanish and Portuguese...what
Re: What *everyone* would actually like to see:[message #3168] Thu, 22 April 2004 17:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Lytinwheedle

 
Messages:79
Registered:November 2001
Location: Luxembourg
I can't see the game not being moddable. Every modern release includes some customization tools, so it won't be different with JA3 either.

But: Time is running out, the whitehats only have 3 years left to perform miracles with the JA2 engine, after that, everyone will be playing JA3 anyway.
Re: What *everyone* would actually like to see:[message #3169] Thu, 22 April 2004 19:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255

 
Messages:1834
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
I've visited Strategy First's site (thanx Lytinwheedle) and I think you're dead on about them producing a moddable game. It sounds like they're going to do a good job.
That said, I don't agree we won't be playing Ja2 anymore particularly if the source code folks crank out some great utilities. At least I won't. Ja2 is a phoeneminal game and one I'll revisit for years to come, if for nothing else nostalgia. I still play certain Sega games but never Rainbow Six or a boatload of other 'state of the art' turds I've picked up over the years.
So; in short, there is no guarantee they're not going to drop the ball with Ja3 but the folks working with the source are doing it out of love for the game so I have my faith in them. Not saying I won't buy Ja3 (hell, I'm itchin' to preorder it) but it's a little premature to assume we'll abandon Ja2 for even a well done version of Ja3.
Re: What *everyone* would actually like to see:[message #3170] Thu, 22 April 2004 21:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alpha Male

 
Messages:29
Registered:April 2004
Hopefully JA3 will be what JA2 was to 1,a huge step forward.
Reading SFi
Re: What *everyone* would actually like to see:[message #3171] Thu, 22 April 2004 23:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
qL67o0j7

 
Messages:181
Registered:March 2004
The big work is building the engine. If it's well thought, for each game you just need to make the specific graphics, some months of level design (and five minutes of playtesting Very Happy ), and that's it.
Re: What *everyone* would actually like to see:[message #3172] Fri, 23 April 2004 01:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255

 
Messages:1834
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
That's right. Reworking the engine has to be the most labor intensive part. After they get that, provided the utilities they design are user friendly, they could crank out as many games as they had the staff to do.
A great thing (marketing wise as well) would be if they make it so easy to work you see expansions coming out every few months or every year. Think of how cool it would be to have a Ja game with different missions all over the world available every year! You'd never tire of it and the developers would become wealthy men. They deserve to.
Re: What *everyone* would actually like to see:[message #3173] Fri, 23 April 2004 22:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alpha Male

 
Messages:29
Registered:April 2004
Still,why two games?
Imagining that one if the straight sequel of Ja2,what is the second?
-a ww2 setting,or other historical based combat scenario?
-a complete sci-fi setting a l
Re: What *everyone* would actually like to see:[message #3174] Sat, 24 April 2004 03:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Khor1255

 
Messages:1834
Registered:August 2003
Location: Pleasantville, NJ
I imagine the first will be a direct Ja sequel (same characters etc.) but the second offers something I've been wanting from the start. Namely an entirely different storyline based around the same engine. I love the Ja2 storyline, characters etc. but a whole new game with the same engine would be truly a breath of fresh air.
And I don't think I'm either pissing or missing the point about easy moddability. It's true that if a utilities package were offered that was easy to use we'd see a lot of homespun games but that wouldn't keep me or anyone I know from buying new editions done by the people that have their finger on the pulse of the existing storyline. We've seen that 'amatuer' versions of Ja can be as good as the ones you buy but remember that took a team of dedicated fans three years to produce. Most people have neither the time or creativity to spend three months designing a game. Also remember that a proffesionally produced game could have certain perks designed into it you wouldn't see in homespun versions. They could even work up to a new version that would require all thier changes in the exe to function. How would that be for a compelling reason to buy every new 'official' Ja title that comes out. Imagine if; once assembled, you'd have a Ja Epic that ran you're mercs all around the world picking up new abilities and transportation modes every few games. I for one would but every one. I'm not rich just a fan.
I think you feel somewhat ripped off if you buy a game with the same engine. I've seen so many bullshit games (and wasted hundreds of dollars trying them out) that I'm looking for a system to settle down with. Ja2 came along before the millenium and it's still the only pc game I play with any regularity. I don't need new just good. This isn't an attack or even criticism of you're way of thinking I'm not trying to say mine is better. What I am saying is a new version of Ja with a few advancements is something I'm really looking foreward to. Two new games on the same engine is twice as good.
Re: What *everyone* would actually like to see:[message #3175] Sat, 24 April 2004 06:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alpha Male

 
Messages:29
Registered:April 2004
there can be too mutch of a good thing,man(cept money and sex)...i think that
Re: What *everyone* would actually like to see:[message #3176] Thu, 04 May 2006 09:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dagger

 
Messages:58
Registered:January 2003
Location: Brazil

you know ... I'm starting to get bored of playing Brigade e5 demo.
Re: What *everyone* would actually like to see:[message #3177] Thu, 01 June 2006 05:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mark_kelly_777

 
Messages:55
Registered:May 2006
Location: Quebec, Canada
I think it's EXTREMELY important for the company to make a good game, even if it takes more time and money, in the end it will also pay off better. Any cheap crappy game (and even the best) can all be downloaded! Now, If I really like a demo of a game... I buy it, if I don't and I don't think it's even worth 20$ I'll download it, crack it and there is nothing anyone can do about that! UNLESS they take time and efforts to make a quality game, it'll be a P2P Download! Hope it doesn't come to that! I'd be willing to pay 100$ for a new JA3.. but it HAS to be up to the task!
Re: What *everyone* would actually like to see:[message #3178] Fri, 02 June 2006 13:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Doc Croc

 
Messages:92
Registered:September 2003
Location: VT
Quote:
Originally posted by Khor1255:
I've seen so many bullshit games (and wasted hundreds of dollars trying them out) that I'm looking for a system to settle down with. Ja2 came along before the millenium and it's still the only pc game I play with any regularity. I don't need new just good.
I really have to agree with Khor on this one. I spend a couple hundred bucks a year on games so I can test the water and see what is out there. Out of all the games I've picked up in the last 7 years there are really only two that are a perminent fixture on my computer. There is Jagged Alliance 2 and Fallout 2, although JA is the only one I still play almost daily. I play mmorpg's on occasion, dabble with the fps, and try anything that piques my interest but few can even come close to Ja2. I mean who can argue with a $40 purchase that gives the buyer 7 good years of enjoyment? Throw in the rich modding community and you have something even more unique. I think that SF realizes this and plans to utilize that ability. A built in editor is a good idea but one that is user friendly has the abilty to make a game almost immortal.
Re: What *everyone* would actually like to see:[message #3179] Fri, 02 June 2006 16:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mark_kelly_777

 
Messages:55
Registered:May 2006
Location: Quebec, Canada
OH MY! Those bad memories! So amny Games purchased, so many jsut put aside or sold for 1/8 the price... 100's of $$$ YES! too much to my opinion! I've only ever settled with JA2 and Rainbow Six 3, Oh and I loved the Fallout Tactics demo, but cannot find it anywhere! :whoknows:
Re: What *everyone* would actually like to see:[message #3180] Fri, 02 June 2006 17:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
baby arm
Messages:9
Registered:May 2006
Location: baby arm fantasy island
"Oh and I loved the Fallout Tactics demo, but cannot find it anywhere!"

Fallout and Fallout 2 are both MUCH better than FOT (although I do enjoy FOT).
Re: What *everyone* would actually like to see:[message #3181] Sat, 03 June 2006 04:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mark_kelly_777

 
Messages:55
Registered:May 2006
Location: Quebec, Canada
Ok, thanks. What is the difference though? I thought of it as just being a bit newer, thats all. And ANY knowledge where I could find Fallout (anyone of the games, on the net, full... no online purchase though).
Re: What *everyone* would actually like to see:[message #3182] Mon, 12 June 2006 00:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Alpha Male

 
Messages:29
Registered:April 2004
Hello,It
Re: What *everyone* would actually like to see:[message #3183] Sat, 24 June 2006 01:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Richard

 
Messages:29
Registered:June 2004
Location: Montr
Body types reflect character body build.
Both hands are independant as they were.
Clothing comes standard but does show changes related to armor.
For JA3, I am still juggling with some possibilities about clothing. I might go along with MERC specific base clothing (as specific as the facial appearance) that would increase even more the overall character uniqueness but still allow additional gear, especially gear that has a direct impact on the MERC's stats (like armor) to show when worn. After all, this is a kind of feedback and seeing what your MERCs are wearing on the screen can save both mouse clicks and MERC blood.
Re: What *everyone* would actually like to see:[message #3184] Sat, 24 June 2006 21:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bearpit

 
Messages:1076
Registered:August 2001
Location: Sydney Australia.
Camo was well handled in JA2 so will it also feature in JA3 ?
1. Camo applied to exposed body parts.
2. Ghille suit offering reduced detection but trading off with greater vulnerability to fire (unable to simultaneously wear armour)
3. An off the shelf Camo sniper rifle (no giveaway glints.
4. There could even be an upgrade kit suitable to apply to some weapons: Camo sniper rifle kit Smile which slowly degrades like other consumables.

If camo is rare it makes a valuable gift.
Re: What *everyone* would actually like to see:[message #130612] Fri, 23 February 2007 22:25 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Annapolisjohn

 
Messages:118
Registered:September 2003
Location: westminster, Maryland
I was wondering if there is any consideration for Armor only fitting a certain body size and having more sizes of body frames.

For example Haywire dies .. He drops his armor which is picked up by Steroid. By the obvious Steroid wouldn't fit into gear that was Haywire's size etc. The same could be said for Bubba. Even though he is a big figure he probably doen't have the low body fat of steroid... and likely a Pot-Belly. Just a thought... Not sure if it would be to much work.
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