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JAF Character System[message #326681] Thu, 17 October 2013 17:10 Go to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3512
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
The above is currently an open discussion on JAF forums. The main idea behind the topic has been iterated by one of the devs in this phrase:

"how would YOU improve coming from the existing JA2 character system? do you have a cool idea? would you want it to be a carbon copy, if not, what would you change?"

Debate please.

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Re: JAF Character System[message #327208] Sat, 26 October 2013 23:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Vhailor

 
Messages:15
Registered:May 2013
I'd keep the perks, skills, stats things in, but what I'd change is how the mercs at their basis are. What I found out in JA 2 is that having a limited number of available mercs with such great personalities made me NOT want to lose them, thus I'd never play Ironman and would reload when I lose someone. On other games like X-Com, soldiers are more expendable and even if you lose 1 or 2 in a fight you can still go on and replace them.

So, perhaps some stat randomization, or letting you choose the skills of each mercs would help in that regard. It would hurt the "personality" aspect of the game, but it'd be for the better IMO.
Re: JAF Character System[message #327211] Sun, 27 October 2013 03:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Maalstroom

 
Messages:343
Registered:December 2008
Location: en route to San Hermanos
well I want them with their skills and personalities just the way they are now, unchanged! those exactly distinct personalities made ja2 what it is.
Re: JAF Character System[message #327213] Sun, 27 October 2013 04:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Vhailor

 
Messages:15
Registered:May 2013
perhaps, but it had the annoying side effect of making loss almost unacceptable
Re: JAF Character System[message #327215] Sun, 27 October 2013 08:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Maalstroom

 
Messages:343
Registered:December 2008
Location: en route to San Hermanos
I love this game especially for this "side effect"
Re: JAF Character System[message #327216] Sun, 27 October 2013 09:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3805
Registered:July 2009
Yupp, it's one of the features that makes JA2 distinct from an average tactical combat game. Hurting that aspect is definitely NOT 'for the better'


Re: JAF Character System[message #327803] Sat, 09 November 2013 01:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Akodo Deathseeker

 
Messages:104
Registered:March 2001
Location: St Paul, MN
I think it is very necessary to have mercs of the following types:

#1 Total losers....bad skills, bad personalities, but you buy them sometimes just to play around and possibly annoy other characters, or just so you can go get them killed, or because you are trying to get a unit of all of a certain kind (like all night-fighters or all knife experts)

#2 Laughable losers...the kind you laugh at but not maliciously, if you take them it's for cheap, for temporary, for being a mule, or because some other merc really likes them. However, they start poor and are hard to improve, and won't ever really be your front line winners.

#3 Lovable medium skilled...You may be able to get one or two of these guys early on. They stick with you through the missions and grow in skill, always staying fun and likable. These are the guys you will grow attached to and will take very seriously if they die. However, even after getting them to late game, there are still a few 'really good' mercs that will outshine them, which brings us to the...

#4 Good but a-holes. Look good on paper, but end up causing problems in the team. Designed to make you debate if they are worth keeping, and designed so that you generally say 'heck, now that I can afford someone better, YOU ARE FIRED!' Note one problem with having too many 'lovable medium skilled' guys is that you have your team and you get attached to all of them, so when you finally meet an interesting NPC who offers to join you OR if you finally get enough money to get an 'All-Star' you don't because you don't want to bench the guys you like. Good but A-holes should generally be a tad bit more skilled or slightly cheaper than an equivalent lovable medium skilled merc.

#5 All-Stars! Guys like Shadow or Lynx who are just GOOD, in a way that even after getting many more levels someone like Gus or Magic just aren't going to be comparable to. Give them special abilities, let them go beyond 100 in skills. These are the guys you WANT to hire but can't due to cash flow. Maybe for a particularly hard spot you'll get one to come for a few days, and in late game you may be able to afford a few. And they are still stand-outs even when your "regulars" are all leveled up.

#5bThere may be a few 'All-Stars' who are 'rookies', they look like lovable medium skilled guys, but it turns out they have something special about them which means as they level up they DO become equal to the 'All-Stars'

#6 Imfamous. These guys are bad. They piss the player off. They annoy the other mercs. However, their skills are such that you put up with them, or send them out on solo missions, or purposely recruit a lovable loser who when with a special partner makes them not act so bad.


#7 Vanilla. Round out the list with some fairly plane jane mercs at low skill medium skill and high skill. They exist for two purposes. For starters, it's the contrast between them and the others that makes the friendliness or a-holeness stand out all the more. Second, if your lovable, packed with character specialist (medic, repairman, sniper, whatever) gets killed, you have some of these guys on the roster that you can call in to fill the spot on your team, even if they never fill that spot in your heart.
Re: JAF Character System[message #327809] Sat, 09 November 2013 12:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3512
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
Nice one Akodo, fully agree.


Re: JAF Character System[message #327985] Tue, 12 November 2013 02:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
BruteForce

 
Messages:27
Registered:October 2013
Location: The Sprawl
Akodo Deathseeker

#2 Laughable losers...the kind you laugh at but not maliciously, if you take them it's for cheap, for temporary, for being a mule, or because some other merc really likes them. However, they start poor and are hard to improve, and won't ever really be your front line winners.


Many people want my work, but I work for you if you give me more money now.

I had a bomb blow up right in my face... how many guys can say dat?
Re: JAF Character System[message #335407] Tue, 02 September 2014 22:07 Go to previous message
Ryan_Prime

 
Messages:18
Registered:October 2007
I don't like the idea in Shanga's OP about "stats" being a point buy choice on level up. In JA2 (and JA, and JADG), all stats and skills improved only through use. This is what I like.

I also enjoyed that in JA and JADG at least, different characters had different advancement metrics for different stats. Needle's Marksmanship could never improve. Tex had mediocre skills but was a quick learner. The older characters' physical stats often degraded over time. Personalizing not only the stats but progression for each merc made them even more unique.
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