Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » Flugente's Magika Workshop » Ancient feature: sexism, racism, cursing the french and other human relations
Ancient feature: sexism, racism, cursing the french and other human relations[message #326828] Sat, 19 October 2013 19:33 Go to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3476
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Racism/Sexism/Appearance/Refinement/Hated Nationalities

For a game that calls itself Jagged Alliance, relations between mercenaries are pretty easygoing. Sure, everyone hates up to 3 people, but that is not much, considering the number of people we have... Apart from that, our mercenaries are a happy bunch, provided you fulfill your daily quota of massacres.

Well, no more of that happy hippie-ing! Sirtech originally planned to include sexism, racism and other human relation stuff. They created the variables and even filled the old profile data with it, but it got left out of the game... at least it is not used anywhere in the code I know (apart from a small section revived by Headrock). But the entries are still there in old files... So I simply made them work. They will now influence the hourly morale update of our mercs. There are now a bunch of new tags in MercProfiles.xml:
  • is your race: WHITE = 0, BLACK = 1, ASIAN = 2, ESKIMO = 3, HISPANIC = 4,
  • is your nationality, is what nationality you hate (-1 for no hate):
    Toggle Spoiler
    More can be coded very easy.
  • sets your appearance: average = 0, ugly = 1, homely = 2, attractive = 3, total babe = 4
  • determines how distinguished you are: average = 0, slob = 1, snob = 2
  • , and determine how much you care about one aspect: not at all = 0, somewhat = 1, extremely = 2
  • is how racist you are against everyone of any other race: none = 0, some = 1, very = 2
  • is ho sexist you are: none = 0, some = 1, very = 2, and with 3 you are a gentle(wo)man. Being a gentleman does not result in morale modifiers on other genders, but they get a morale drop if you marry away teammates against their will in a certain quest.
Depending on all these settings, each merc will have a much more finetuned opinion on other people. Some opinions will rise (sexists favour attractive members of the other gender), but most of the stuff is negative. Yes, this will mean that dumping Fox into a squad of male sexists will boost their morale. As will dumping Danny into a female party, as he's a total babe, says the game.

http://i39.tinypic.com/20qidsg.jpg
When creating an IMP, you can select all that. Yes, this means that we can now built dropdown selections, as I built that. Which was horrifying work, thank you.

http://i39.tinypic.com/2h3assh.png
Of course, you will want to know all that. so here you can see it.

Selecting a nationality/race/appearance does not yield any other boni/mali, and it will stay that way. Otherwise I expect this thread to violently go up in flames once people offer such distinguished opinions as "asians should get a malus to driving cars", "israelis want higher wages" or "beautiful women with blond hair should get -x% wisdom stat effectiveness". Should that be your opinion, post it somewhere else and not here.

As I am unfamiliar with the DG/WF/UB mercs, I did not fill out values those, hoping that someone else can. There are also some odd sirtech values (like Blood being american instead of south-african).

While this feature was planned to be in the released game, an thus never optional, there is still a way to turn it off if you want. I added modifiers to JA2_Options.ini each topic that control the severity of a morale penalty:
Toggle Spoiler
Setting all these values to 0 will effectively turn this feature off.

While this feature will not break existing games, mercs wont have only default values unless you loaded your merc data from PROF.DAT. In that case everybody will be totally average (=american).

This does not break savegame compatibility.

This feature is in the trunk as of r6510 and GameDir r1835.

Edit 1: r6521 adds a bit of new goodies:
  • mercs with average refinement get a morale penalty if they care extremely about refinement and the other merc is a slob or snob
  • added belgian and portoguese nationalities
  • Fix: race, sexism etc. xml data didn't correctly overwrite PROF.DAT data
  • Reworked DropDown class. It is now much easier to use, the user has to implement only one function. See Documentation in DropDown.h.
  • Added Helptexts to DropDown that will show when hovering over the main region of the DropDown.


Re: Ancient feature: sexism, racism, cursing the french and other human relations[message #326836] Sat, 19 October 2013 20:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2006
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
Flugente
Yes, this means that we can now built dropdown selections, as I built that. Which was horrifying work, thank you.

:cheerleader:

and OC :super: and thnx for the whole feature!
Re: Ancient feature: sexism, racism, cursing the french and other human relations[message #326837] Sat, 19 October 2013 20:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Shanga

 
Messages:3529
Registered:January 2000
Location: Danubia
You've really gotta stop with these awesome features. I dunno how much the universe can take before a time/space rift appears and we get dropped back to 1999 before JA2 even existed. It's reaaallly dangerous stuff you're doing mate, reeeeaaallly dangerous...

It's like your :dongetit: is like :et4: and I am :yikes:


Re: Ancient feature: sexism, racism, cursing the french and other human relations[message #326840] Sat, 19 October 2013 21:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Off_Topic

 
Messages:1021
Registered:January 2009
Fantastic work Flugente, but I have one gripe, everyone loves the Irish! Only messing, this is cool.


Re: Ancient feature: sexism, racism, cursing the french and other human relations[message #326857] Sat, 19 October 2013 23:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Zombiehunter

 
Messages:185
Registered:March 2011
Location: Franconia, Germany
This is going to be funny =)

Oh please let me add "I am Franconian" and "I dislike the Bavarians" Wink

[Updated on: Sat, 19 October 2013 23:33] by Moderator

Re: Ancient feature: sexism, racism, cursing the french and other human relations[message #326862] Sun, 20 October 2013 00:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:2006
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
Zombiehunter
This is going to be funny =)

Oh please let me add "I am Franconian" and "I dislike the Bavarians" Wink

The latter is already integral part of german ... Wink

SCNR
Re: Ancient feature: sexism, racism, cursing the french and other human relations[message #326868] Sun, 20 October 2013 01:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Slax

 
Messages:1445
Registered:July 2006
Location: People riding polar bears...
Can't play until next week. I'm gonna die. DIIIE!

Re: Ancient feature: sexism, racism, cursing the french and other human relations[message #326873] Sun, 20 October 2013 02:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Uriens

 
Messages:332
Registered:July 2006
Thanks for yet another great feature.
Re: Ancient feature: sexism, racism, cursing the french and other human relations[message #326875] Sun, 20 October 2013 09:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hawkeye

 
Messages:1960
Registered:October 2005
Location: Australia
Flugente

As I am unfamiliar with the DG/WF/UB mercs, I did not fill out values those, hoping that someone else can. There are also some odd sirtech values (like Blood being american instead of south-african).

While this feature was planned to be in the released game, an thus never optional, there is still a way to turn it off if you want. I added modifiers to JA2_Options.ini each topic that control the severity of a morale penalty: [spoiler][code][Morale Settings]


Crazy to think all those attributes are there, but never used. Didn't appearance, refinement and rascist values affect interaction with NPC's or Morale? Or was it all just swept under the carpet?

I did a double-take some while ago when seeing Scully marked as an Englishman and Bull as Irish, but then again Bull could just have Irish blood in his family genes, and Scully could have always been an ex-pat, even his accent sounds more English than Australian to me.


Re: Ancient feature: sexism, racism, cursing the french and other human relations[message #326902] Sun, 20 October 2013 15:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tais

 
Messages:674
Registered:February 2008
Location: NL
I'm surprised you didn't set the default option for the Dutch.... you just disappointed some people!


Re: Ancient feature: sexism, racism, cursing the french and other human relations[message #326903] Sun, 20 October 2013 16:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
grim

 
Messages:340
Registered:July 2006
Location: France
You will never stop to amaze me, Flugente. Very nice job on this feature!
Re: Ancient feature: sexism, racism, cursing the french and other human relations[message #326909] Sun, 20 October 2013 17:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3476
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Smeag found a bug... funny story: The READ_PROFILE_DATA_FROM_XML option does not work as one would think it does: It always reads data from Prof.DAT, and then possibly overwrites that with xml content later on. As this was added ages after sirtech coded variables used here, they were never overwritten.

Will commit fix once SVN is up again.

Zombiehunter
This is going to be funny =)

Oh please let me add "I am Franconian" and "I dislike the Bavarians" Wink
It would be thinkable to externalise the nationalities. I did not do that as the name is purely cosmetic anyway.


Re: Ancient feature: sexism, racism, cursing the french and other human relations[message #326925] Sun, 20 October 2013 22:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Zundman7301

 
Messages:38
Registered:June 2005
Location: USA
Bravo. That's about all I have to say. --Super impressive. Bravo.
Re: Ancient feature: sexism, racism, cursing the french and other human relations[message #326926] Sun, 20 October 2013 22:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Gorro der GrĂ¼ne

 
Messages:1494
Registered:March 2009
Location: Broadwurschd-City
Zombiehunter
This is going to be funny =)

Oh please let me add "I am Franconian" and "I dislike the Bavarians" Wink


You are a Cobburcher and the Frang'n (Frankonians) hate You as much as they hate those Bavarians who bought You in 1919.

:grimreaper:






Ducky, carry on please
Re: Ancient feature: sexism, racism, cursing the french and other human relations[message #326931] Mon, 21 October 2013 00:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Maalstroom

 
Messages:341
Registered:December 2008
Location: en route to San Hermanos
Great feature!

Quote:
Otherwise I expect this thread to violently go up in flames once people offer such distinguished opinions as "asians should get a malus to driving cars", "israelis want higher wages" or "beautiful women with blond hair should get -x% wisdom stat effectiveness". Should that be your opinion, post it somewhere else and not here.


Since I don't know if the mercs have the dialogs/speech files to express such opinions towards others (have they?), I think we should create a new thread to collect such "misconceptions" and include some of them in the game. Not knowing others opinions it's pointless. For example if a certain merc makes a lot of bad jokes/remarks you fire him and never hire him again. We should know when Buzz wants to quit because she's harassed by the sexist bunch around her or why not - she goes psycho and starts shooting them Smile). Does this sounds ok with you guys?
Re: Ancient feature: sexism, racism, cursing the french and other human relations[message #326942] Mon, 21 October 2013 13:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smeagol

 
Messages:2733
Registered:June 2008
Location: Bremen, Germany
There is a tooltip section in the personal files of the mercs showing their likes/dislikes.

if you talk to some of the mercs ingame they sometimes tell you some of their opinions (at least in the german version I know this for fact... magic for example tells you that he doesn't like the Danes)


Re: Ancient feature: sexism, racism, cursing the french and other human relations[message #326950] Mon, 21 October 2013 16:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Maalstroom

 
Messages:341
Registered:December 2008
Location: en route to San Hermanos
You're right smeagol. I've never tried to talk to them before so I've tested it and still found that comments are to repetitive and not even close to piss off someone. I don't know why but I think this guys or at least the chicks should be like woodpeckers..
Re: Ancient feature: sexism, racism, cursing the french and other human relations[message #326961] Tue, 22 October 2013 01:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3476
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Hawkeye
Crazy to think all those attributes are there, but never used. Didn't appearance, refinement and rascist values affect interaction with NPC's or Morale? Or was it all just swept under the carpet?
It wasn't used anywhere, apart from Sexism for the Hick's quest and Some part of Appearance for Showoff characters. But this was added relatively recently by Sandro & Headrock.

Maalstroom
We should know when Buzz wants to quit because she's harassed by the sexist bunch around her or why not - she goes psycho and starts shooting them Smile). Does this sounds ok with you guys?
Buzz? She's the high priestess of hatred. Judging from her values, bio and psycho disability, you'll likely piss her off if you breathe :junkyarddog: :blackcat:

A very sad thing is that we can not add more speechfiles, unless we somehow get hold of the original voice actors. JA:F could easily score a lot of points here by expanding the mercenary relations and adding a lot of spoken texts.

Update: r6521 adds a bit of new goodies:
  • mercs with average refinement get a morale penalty if they care extremely about refinement and the other merc is a slob or snob
  • added belgian and portoguese nationalities
  • Fix: race, sexism etc. xml data didn't correctly overwrite PROF.DAT data (this is what I posted about earlier)
  • Reworked DropDown class. It is now much easier to use, the user has to implement only one function. See Documentation in DropDown.h.
  • Added Helptexts to DropDown that will show when hovering over the main region of the DropDown.


Re: Ancient feature: sexism, racism, cursing the french and other human relations[message #326968] Tue, 22 October 2013 09:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JMich

 
Messages:560
Registered:January 2011
Location: Greece
Flugente
Buzz? She's the high priestess of hatred. Judging from her values, bio and psycho disability, you'll likely piss her off if you breathe :junkyarddog: :blackcat:

So the best teammates for her would be a group of zombies?
Re: Ancient feature: sexism, racism, cursing the french and other human relations[message #326970] Tue, 22 October 2013 10:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3745
Registered:July 2009
Unlikely. Even normal people wouldn't want to hang around with a bunch of stinking zombies.


Re: Ancient feature: sexism, racism, cursing the french and other human relations[message #326994] Tue, 22 October 2013 21:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Maalstroom

 
Messages:341
Registered:December 2008
Location: en route to San Hermanos
I still want to see some remarks about buzz/buns's ass, and see them start shooting people if they are to annoying. or gus bitching about the french...
Re: Ancient feature: sexism, racism, cursing the french and other human relations[message #326996] Tue, 22 October 2013 21:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tbird94lx

 
Messages:690
Registered:April 2002
Location: ohhhhhh canada
if i just do an svn update will i get these features?


Re: Ancient feature: sexism, racism, cursing the french and other human relations[message #326997] Tue, 22 October 2013 21:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3476
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Easy. Just send me the soundfiles once you've contacted the speech actors of the game/took them hostage and forced them to record those lines.

Smile

@Tbird: yup.

[Updated on: Tue, 22 October 2013 21:28] by Moderator



Re: Ancient feature: sexism, racism, cursing the french and other human relations[message #326998] Tue, 22 October 2013 21:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tbird94lx

 
Messages:690
Registered:April 2002
Location: ohhhhhh canada
thanks Smile


Re: Ancient feature: sexism, racism, cursing the french and other human relations[message #327038] Wed, 23 October 2013 20:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Maalstroom

 
Messages:341
Registered:December 2008
Location: en route to San Hermanos
flug, I guess all of us can read... we don't need soundfiles to spice things up, we just need the lines and some uncontrolled rampant behavior for some mercs... that's all I'm saying, hope you get the point! READING IS SO MUCH MORE FUN THAN LISTENING... so let's collect some comments and use them, it's that so bad? Or at least give the moders an option to fill up such a file.
Re: Ancient feature: sexism, racism, cursing the french and other human relations[message #327039] Wed, 23 October 2013 21:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3476
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Hum. Getting mercs to talk isn't that hard. Setting up a fixed dialogue numbering is neither... but all merc quotes are in .EDT files. I have no idea why they haven't been moved to nice and handy xmls, but those things are ugly, and I have no idea on wether they can be expanded. Plus the only mildly useable editor I found was in russian, which gives me no idea o what I am doing. Bleh.


Re: Ancient feature: sexism, racism, cursing the french and other human relations[message #327055] Thu, 24 October 2013 02:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tbird94lx

 
Messages:690
Registered:April 2002
Location: ohhhhhh canada
i did most recent svn update..dosnt show this anywhere..either i'm missing something or i'm now just too old and senile to figrue things out

i miss the good old days when folks would post a zip file or exe for us to download from the thread

[Updated on: Thu, 24 October 2013 02:17] by Moderator



Re: Ancient feature: sexism, racism, cursing the french and other human relations[message #327056] Thu, 24 October 2013 02:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Off_Topic

 
Messages:1021
Registered:January 2009
It should be there as default Tbird. If you go to your INI, there should be a /Morale settings.


Re: Ancient feature: sexism, racism, cursing the french and other human relations[message #327084] Thu, 24 October 2013 14:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tbird94lx

 
Messages:690
Registered:April 2002
Location: ohhhhhh canada
Off_Topic
It should be there as default Tbird. If you go to your INI, there should be a /Morale settings.


sorry..there isnt :/ i musta done soemthing wrong...i just did my usual svn checkout thingie and let it update
am i spossed to go elsewhere and maually download bits?


Re: Ancient feature: sexism, racism, cursing the french and other human relations[message #327085] Thu, 24 October 2013 14:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
DepressivesBrot

 
Messages:3745
Registered:July 2009
Did you get one of those exe thingies from my place? Link in sig


Re: Ancient feature: sexism, racism, cursing the french and other human relations[message #327086] Thu, 24 October 2013 14:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tbird94lx

 
Messages:690
Registered:April 2002
Location: ohhhhhh canada
DepressivesBrot
Did you get one of those exe thingies from my place? Link in sig

nope.i just did svn update and let it update things on its own
what the hell..i just did ANOTHER svn update and now its there..i updated yesterday..oy..i hate being old and senile
i should go back into quiet hermit-hood and increase my meds

[Updated on: Thu, 24 October 2013 14:26] by Moderator



Re: Ancient feature: sexism, racism, cursing the french and other human relations[message #327094] Thu, 24 October 2013 15:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tbird94lx

 
Messages:690
Registered:April 2002
Location: ohhhhhh canada
ok..more obtuse oblivious stoopidity from me..ok..the morale stuff is there in the ini...i did not fiddle with it..left it default..NOW..how does it activate so i can use it creating imps?..it dosnt show..
pretend..i'm a drooling old man inna nursing home and explain it to me as such Razz


Re: Ancient feature: sexism, racism, cursing the french and other human relations[message #327097] Thu, 24 October 2013 15:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Maalstroom

 
Messages:341
Registered:December 2008
Location: en route to San Hermanos
download the latest exe from dupri, look at his signature, and everything will be in place.
Re: Ancient feature: sexism, racism, cursing the french and other human relations[message #327100] Thu, 24 October 2013 17:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Maalstroom

 
Messages:341
Registered:December 2008
Location: en route to San Hermanos
but without a gazillion merc quotes and the quarrels this feature is just simply there to damage the moral... they are the quiet happy bunch we all know it...
Flug did a splendid job but the data we have it's not making it shine as it should.
Re: Ancient feature: sexism, racism, cursing the french and other human relations[message #327101] Thu, 24 October 2013 18:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Off_Topic

 
Messages:1021
Registered:January 2009
@Flugente: Since it's not feasible to get new Merc speech/response for your new (old) feature. I was wondering would it be possible to get a weekly/daily report on Morale, or even a spreadsheet like expenses on the laptop?

If it's a crazy idea just ignore this, it wasn't a fully though out thing, just came into my head. I had a rough idea where you could see either:

Individual Merc Morale or Sector Morale.
Levels of Sexism etc...

Anyway, food for thought, maybe you can think of something better.


Re: Ancient feature: sexism, racism, cursing the french and other human relations[message #327103] Thu, 24 October 2013 21:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3476
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Why would a separate display be needed? A merc's values are displayed on the personnel page in the laptop, and morale, well, can be seen on a merc's morale bar.

I'm now much more firm with creating laptop webpages now, but I don't see the need.


Re: Ancient feature: sexism, racism, cursing the french and other human relations[message #327105] Thu, 24 October 2013 21:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tbird94lx

 
Messages:690
Registered:April 2002
Location: ohhhhhh canada
ok..everythings working hunky dory..thaks to those that ahd the patience to deal with my ignorance and help me thru..cheers!!


Re: Ancient feature: sexism, racism, cursing the french and other human relations[message #327107] Thu, 24 October 2013 21:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Off_Topic

 
Messages:1021
Registered:January 2009
Flugente
Why would a separate display be needed? A merc's values are displayed on the personnel page in the laptop, and morale, well, can be seen on a merc's morale bar.

I'm now much more firm with creating laptop webpages now, but I don't see the need.


Ok, maybe i didn't explain myself very well. The way Merc relationships is implemented in the game is very natural, you hire a Merc and you'll find out through speech if they do/don't like someone.

With this, do you have to check it all the time yourself or just be aware of the Mercs Looks/Dislikes etc...?


Re: Ancient feature: sexism, racism, cursing the french and other human relations[message #327249] Mon, 28 October 2013 02:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Zombiehunter

 
Messages:185
Registered:March 2011
Location: Franconia, Germany
Gorro der Gr

[Updated on: Mon, 28 October 2013 02:16] by Moderator

Re: Ancient feature: sexism, racism, cursing the french and other human relations[message #327480] Sat, 02 November 2013 13:01 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
niculinux

 
Messages:82
Registered:January 2012
Location: Italy
WOW great! Please, include it in next ja2 1.13 mod version!!!!
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