Home » MODDING HQ 1.13 » Flugente's Magika Workshop » New Feature: Helicopter drops anywhere
New Feature: Helicopter drops anywhere[message #327879] Sun, 10 November 2013 21:49 Go to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3540
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
<font size="">New Feature (Exploit enhancement ?): Helicopter drops anywhere</font>
Altough Skyrider says he'll never fly you into hostile sectors, he always did. I found this 'feature' to be a nice addition, but barely useable in sectors with more than a handful of enemies... He always your mercs in one pack into the middle of the sector, which is a suicidal approach.

While we can now choose to drop our guys on the edge of a sector, I wasn't fully happy with that, so i added a new option:
ALLOW_SKYRIDER_HOT_LZ = 3
will now allow you, when entering combat in a sector with mercs who have just exited the helicopter, to place them anywhere on the map. As they all come from the same helicopter, they can only be placed as a group.

When you then enter the sector, they will enter combat at the chosen location by roping from the helicopter, just like they do on Day 1 in Omerta.

They can also land on (accessible) roofs. Landing on cliffs would also be possible, but as you can then not leave the sector again, I forbid that.

Yup, this is very useful and can be used to ambush the AI. No fear. I'm thinking wether it'd be reasonable to allow the AI to damage the helicopter in these conditions, since it flies so low... we'll see about that. :rifle:

While doing this, I fixed entry points in non-standard-sized maps (read: Bigmaps) for multiplayer. In case you ever did that and wondered where the heck your mercs started.

This does NOT break savegame compatibility and has been added to the trunk in r6576 and GameDir r1861.

[Updated on: Thu, 26 February 2015 22:09]



Re: New Feature: Helicopter drops anywhere[message #327881] Sun, 10 November 2013 22:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Elvis_A

 
Messages:278
Registered:December 2012
Location: exUSSR
I am speechless.
Great job! Always wanted this feature as soon as I first time played Ja 2

"Lethal. That's what you are." (c)
Re: New Feature: Helicopter drops anywhere[message #327882] Sun, 10 November 2013 22:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2760
Registered:May 2009
Nice! Smile

But I would recommend to add a high chance that the heli gets damaged during such an insertion. The enemy won't just stand by and watch.


PS: I'm happy that you didn't change the files I'm working on at the moment. Saves me lots of merges. Very Happy

[Updated on: Sun, 10 November 2013 22:20] by Moderator


Re: New Feature: Helicopter drops anywhere[message #327883] Sun, 10 November 2013 22:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
grim

 
Messages:349
Registered:July 2006
Location: France
Flugentastic!
Re: New Feature: Helicopter drops anywhere[message #327886] Sun, 10 November 2013 22:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2760
Registered:May 2009
Hmm, this is what I get when I try to compile:

map edgepoints.cpp(107) : error C2039: 'sqrt' : is not a member of 'std'

Re: New Feature: Helicopter drops anywhere[message #327888] Sun, 10 November 2013 22:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3540
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Hmm? I don't get that with VS2010... which version do you use?


Re: New Feature: Helicopter drops anywhere[message #327889] Sun, 10 November 2013 22:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2760
Registered:May 2009
VS2008 Express

edit: If you include "math.h" and only use "sqrt" it works.

[Updated on: Sun, 10 November 2013 22:36] by Moderator


Re: New Feature: Helicopter drops anywhere[message #327890] Sun, 10 November 2013 22:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3540
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Okay... included .. try now.

silversurfer
But I would recommend to add a high chance that the heli gets damaged during such an insertion. The enemy won't just stand by and watch.
Coincidentally, when the helicopter flies into the sector, the AI soldiers are already placed... we know the path the helicopter will take... so we would know who could fire at it.... :pitchfork:


Re: New Feature: Helicopter drops anywhere[message #327891] Sun, 10 November 2013 22:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2760
Registered:May 2009
Oh yeah! Compiles now. :thumbsup:

Re: New Feature: Helicopter drops anywhere[message #327896] Sun, 10 November 2013 23:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Maalstroom

 
Messages:341
Registered:December 2008
Location: en route to San Hermanos
Hi, in vengeance mod there is an parachute animation, can it be imported and have some paratroopers too? for night missions, and only for the SAS and skydivers...
http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=211927&page=1

skyrider has an heli, but he's a pilot maybe he can fly some airplanes too...
Re: New Feature: Helicopter drops anywhere[message #327900] Mon, 11 November 2013 00:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3540
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
Maalstroom
Hi, in vengeance mod there is an parachute animation, can it be imported and have some paratroopers too? for night missions, and only for the SAS and skydivers...
http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=211927&page=1

skyrider has an heli, but he's a pilot maybe he can fly some airplanes too...
Interesting... I'll have to ask scorpion about it. Though I don't see how the player (:naughty:) would ever have access to a plane big enough to drop a sizable force.


Re: New Feature: Helicopter drops anywhere[message #327904] Mon, 11 November 2013 00:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Maalstroom

 
Messages:341
Registered:December 2008
Location: en route to San Hermanos
then at least the queen forces... should have this option, and maybe the militia can shoot some of them while in the air, imagine drassen counter attack... but if the size of the plane is the question... look at the heli and then look at the airplanes in the game, now back to the heli , now back to the planes .. you get the picture. you can drop a team of 6, and how many AIM members are skydivers or were in the SAS?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owGykVbfgUE
Smile
Re: New Feature: Helicopter drops anywhere[message #327905] Mon, 11 November 2013 00:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
silversurfer

 
Messages:2760
Registered:May 2009
Flugente
Though I don't see how the player (:naughty:) would ever have access to a plane big enough to drop a sizable force.

... and a runway to start and land it in Arulco. Wink

Re: New Feature: Helicopter drops anywhere[message #327908] Mon, 11 November 2013 00:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pheloncab

 
Messages:281
Registered:August 2004
Location: So. Cal. or texas
Wasn't their a twin engine puddle jumper in the drassen airport? rigged right that should be good for 4-8 jumpers, you could probably bend it to 10 if the last 2 sat in the aisle and everyone was pregeared.

of course it would likely be kinda jumbled so entry would be scattered rather than tight grouped on landing and you'd have 0 AP the first turn while you dropped the chute.
Re: New Feature: Helicopter drops anywhere[message #327909] Mon, 11 November 2013 00:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Maalstroom

 
Messages:341
Registered:December 2008
Location: en route to San Hermanos
then we should rename the airport sectors ... we should name them needless aviation museums or flyin' ducks airstrips...
in the WWII they managed to take off with an b24 liberator from an aircraft carrier.
Re: New Feature: Helicopter drops anywhere[message #327910] Mon, 11 November 2013 00:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
sevenfm

 
Messages:2354
Registered:December 2012
Location: Russian Federation
Looks new and fantastic!
And maybe someday our radio operators could call helicopter reinforcements Smile


Re: New Feature: Helicopter drops anywhere[message #327924] Mon, 11 November 2013 10:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Taro_M

 
Messages:294
Registered:November 2008
I guess we will need an animated sprite for helicopter for both enemy and merc. Also we could have Anti-Air missiles for soldiers.

Damn, if someone did a mod that would make Queen make better use of her tanks it would be awesome.
Re: New Feature: Helicopter drops anywhere[message #327942] Mon, 11 November 2013 15:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:1997
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
Great Feature as usual, flug! :super:

I'd heavily support silver's request for additional balancing (if feasible):

1. Add a high chance of quite some damage to the heli and injuries to passengers; maybe even have "Blackskyhawkrider down!" by elites with RPGs, LAW and such.

2. Put enemy to red alert and make them know where player is, as they should notice the heli.
And give them the first turn if player drops in close to at least one of them as in your demo vid.
Re: New Feature: Helicopter drops anywhere[message #327947] Mon, 11 November 2013 18:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Taro_M

 
Messages:294
Registered:November 2008
I agree, the enemies should be put on high alert right at the start. Also characters without SAS training or similar start with 0 AP or are very prone to get interrupted.

Also could you make it work together with Radio Operator features? I would like to be able to send a pathfinder group and then radio in for air assault. The limitation would be that helo should be over the contested sector, maybe there should be a possibility to synchronize the arrival.

As an additional balancing Skyrider would demand extra money for air assault and there should be high (configurable) chance that helo gets damaged. We dont need soldiers to actually shoot at helo, just a chance will be enough.

[Updated on: Mon, 11 November 2013 18:10] by Moderator

Re: New Feature: Helicopter drops anywhere[message #327958] Mon, 11 November 2013 21:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3540
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
The enemy is already drawn to the dropoff location. I won't set them to red alert, yello seems more reasonable (they cannot be sure that it's an attack, and this allows jamming the initial call for reinforcements that accompanies every switch to read alert if one drops a radio operator that is already jamming frequencies when dropping).

Dropping characters already use up a good portion of APs in the animation. Mercs with the -tag in their background get bonus AP, which should simply outdo that.

This feature can be used on synchronized attacks - only those in the helicopter can be placed anywhere, the rest according to the usual rules. This is almost impossible to achieve nowadays, however, as leaving the helicopter automatically triggers combat, like it should.

Entering the sector by dropping anywhere is not possible. It has never been possible to select insertion points in ongoing battles. I don't know how hard that would be to achieve, but I expect 'a lot'.

The radio operator will not be able to somehow call mercenary reinforcements like he can call militia reinforcements. Because I say so. :armsfolded:

I plan to allow 'firing' at the helicopter while it descends, but I'm dubious... anyone losing the helicopter and his A-Team inside will reload anyway, making this an empty threat.

[Updated on: Mon, 11 November 2013 21:15] by Moderator



Re: New Feature: Helicopter drops anywhere[message #327964] Mon, 11 November 2013 22:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Maalstroom

 
Messages:341
Registered:December 2008
Location: en route to San Hermanos
flug the question still stands - is this available for the enemy too?
Re: New Feature: Helicopter drops anywhere[message #327965] Mon, 11 November 2013 22:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3540
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
No.


Re: New Feature: Helicopter drops anywhere[message #327968] Mon, 11 November 2013 22:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:1997
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
Flugente

I plan to allow 'firing' at the helicopter while it descends, but I'm dubious... anyone losing the helicopter and his A-Team inside will reload anyway, making this an empty threat.

Could be restricted to damage to the heli; not losing it entirely but forcing heli's immediate retreat[1] back to base and having some repairs. And some health and breath damage to the squad on arrival, some suppression shock and loss of morale or some such.
Or maybe make pilot cancel the approach due to "hot landing zone", preventing the attack at all and forcing pilot to retreat (to neighbouring sector? To base?) including "battle lost" in history file and its implications on morale and such?


[1] still drop the squad at intended location on map, but not circling above this sector till end of fight, but flying back to base just like if having run out of fuel.

[Updated on: Mon, 11 November 2013 22:48] by Moderator

Re: New Feature: Helicopter drops anywhere[message #327986] Tue, 12 November 2013 03:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pheloncab

 
Messages:281
Registered:August 2004
Location: So. Cal. or texas
I like the retreat one sector option, and a small Morale loss seems appropriate, i'd also suggest for consideration a financial penalty for repairs.
a nice externalized value with a default 5k or so to patch and refit the heli would help limit the use a little early game.
probably set damage value at 25% you take the morale penalty, at 50 the repair and at 75 the missed LZ, make them cumulative, and that should give a pretty good balance option to the modders.
Re: New Feature: Helicopter drops anywhere[message #327992] Tue, 12 November 2013 04:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Bananarepublic

 
Messages:39
Registered:October 2013
How about limiting the number of squad members that Skyrider can drop on a hot Landing Zone?
Could be interesting to form small man chopper squads.

Reasoning: Skyrider knows he won't have time to drop as many people before he has to abort mission, so he only agrees to drop a safe number (perhaps depending on enemy force present).
(i suggest not making the enemies go full alert on landing if we do this)

Regardless, excellent feature Flugente!
Re: New Feature: Helicopter drops anywhere[message #328037] Tue, 12 November 2013 20:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
WillyWonka

 
Messages:121
Registered:February 2006
Location: Sweden/Sverige
Great feature, Flugente! I don
Re: New Feature: Helicopter drops anywhere[message #328087] Wed, 13 November 2013 17:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Czert

 
Messages:105
Registered:August 2007
Great idea, i think max drop of 6 will be resonable (after all you dont see any big plane at drassen right?).
If you want biger sqad drops, well buy bigger plane from BR website Surprised.
And i think here should be some limits for aidrop - say max 15/20kg of gear (whatever is more close to reality - any paradroper here?) and all other eqipment will be droped in dropboxes (max 50kg+inventory size and 2/3 dropboxes per fly) - and just be sure you do airdrop on full land sectors so your paratopers doesnt instantly become divers and your dropboxes submarines Smile.
Re: New Feature: Helicopter drops anywhere[message #328102] Wed, 13 November 2013 21:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Maalstroom

 
Messages:341
Registered:December 2008
Location: en route to San Hermanos
I agree that we should have some equipment drops later in game, so we don't need to go back to drassen every now and then, and this should be done only in tactical view in sectors where mercs are present, so we can also have some beautiful visual efects - such as parashutes...
Re: New Feature: Helicopter drops anywhere[message #328105] Wed, 13 November 2013 21:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Flugente

 
Messages:3540
Registered:April 2009
Location: Germany
@Czert: Dropping people into the sea works jsut fine^^

Maalstroom
I agree that we should have some equipment drops later in game, so we don't need to go back to drassen every now and then, and this should be done only in tactical view in sectors where mercs are present, so we can also have some beautiful visual efects - such as parashutes...
Just no.


Re: New Feature: Helicopter drops anywhere[message #328106] Wed, 13 November 2013 21:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Maalstroom

 
Messages:341
Registered:December 2008
Location: en route to San Hermanos
Smile cause this would be like cheating Smile

but: Let's do it - by Conal Fowkes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-LvzEk7Nrg

Birds do it, bees do it
Even educated fleas do it
Let's do it!
In Spain, the best upper sets do it
Lithuanians and Latts do it
The Dutch in old Amsterdam do it
Not to mention the Fins
Folks in Siam do it
...
Some Argentines, without means do it
...
Cold Cape Cod clams, 'gainst their wish, do it
Even lazy jellyfish do it
...
So why not do it? Smile
Re: New Feature: Helicopter drops anywhere[message #328138] Thu, 14 November 2013 11:52 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hinka

 
Messages:20
Registered:January 2008
Location: Manchester, England
Brilliant mod.


im a complete idiot with computers.

could somebody please tell me in simple child like terms, where to type this line of code so i can get some helo drop goodness please!

=)

many thanks Hinka
Re: New Feature: Helicopter drops anywhere[message #328144] Thu, 14 November 2013 13:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cnagorneac

 
Messages:185
Registered:April 2012
Hinka
Brilliant mod.
im a complete idiot with computers.
could somebody please tell me in simple child like terms, where to type this line of code so i can get some helo drop goodness please!
many thanks Hinka

Read it here.
http://www.bears-pit.com/board/ubbthreads.php/topics/311288/Depri_s_Builds_and_Packages_Ge.html#Post311288
If you want just features of 1.13 mod, then follow instructions for "Unstable 1.13 SCI" and "Unstable 1.13 Builds"
Also consider "updating your gamedir via SVN" link in the instructions.

[Updated on: Thu, 14 November 2013 13:29] by Moderator

Re: New Feature: Helicopter drops anywhere[message #328150] Thu, 14 November 2013 14:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Hinka

 
Messages:20
Registered:January 2008
Location: Manchester, England
thanks for posting , but,

i cant make head nor tail of that thread ?

i dont understand code , svn , ini or any of that stuff ?


is the an install i download, , if not what do i open in the game to type the line in ?

many thanks , Hinka (40 year old, and only ever learnt basic, on the vic 20 and c-64)

Re: New Feature: Helicopter drops anywhere[message #328152] Thu, 14 November 2013 15:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
niculinux

 
Messages:82
Registered:January 2012
Location: Italy
Hinka


i dont understand code , svn , ini or any of that stuff ?

[[..]]
and only ever learnt basic, on the vic 20 and c-64)



hello Hinka, here's a "colleague" typing! Very Happy

So, If I am not mistaken, you need the very latest buid (SCI = Single Click Installer) and the latest .exe

please refer to Depri's Builds and Packages - Get your combat supplies here! for details :ok:

[Updated on: Thu, 14 November 2013 15:13] by Moderator

Re: New Feature: Helicopter drops anywhere[message #328154] Thu, 14 November 2013 15:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sam Hotte

 
Messages:1997
Registered:March 2009
Location: Middle of Germany
Download and install the complete package (SCI) from depri's skydrive (in my sig.)
make sure, the actual package you get is from or newer than 10/11/13 (otherwise this feature won't be in).

After installing, open the file "Ja2_Options.INI" in a text editor (e.g. notepad). Search for "ALLOW_SKYRIDER_HOT_LZ" change the line to "ALLOW_SKYRIDER_HOT_LZ = 3".
Save and exit.
run the game, start new campaign.
Have fun. Smile
Re: New Feature: Helicopter drops anywhere[message #328157] Thu, 14 November 2013 15:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
niculinux

 
Messages:82
Registered:January 2012
Location: Italy
silversurfer
Nice! Smile
But I would recommend to add a high chance that the heli gets damaged during such an insertion. The enemy won't just stand by and watch.


Yes, very funny! Damage should be proportioned to the rank of enemies present in that sector (eg. troops, elites, ecc.) Also, the possibility that helicopter explodes, also after having depoyed some mercs, so some of them die...and of course also skyrider: no more helicopter, no more skyrider :axe:

[Updated on: Thu, 14 November 2013 15:38] by Moderator

Re: New Feature: Helicopter drops anywhere[message #328159] Thu, 14 November 2013 15:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Zombiehunter

 
Messages:185
Registered:March 2011
Location: Franconia, Germany
niculinux
silversurfer
Nice! Smile
But I would recommend to add a high chance that the heli gets damaged during such an insertion. The enemy won't just stand by and watch.


Yes, very funny! Damage should be proportioned to the rank of enemies present in that sector (eg. troops, elites, ecc.) Also, the possibility that helicopter explodes, also after having depoyed some mercs, so some of them die...and of course also skyrider: no more helicopter, no more skyrider :axe:


You should really start reading the threads, before you post in them. Don't you think, anyone losing Skyrider, the Chopper and most of their A-Team won't instantly reload after that?
Re: New Feature: Helicopter drops anywhere[message #328160] Thu, 14 November 2013 15:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
niculinux

 
Messages:82
Registered:January 2012
Location: Italy
Zombiehunter

You should really start reading the threads, before you post in them. Don't you think, anyone losing Skyrider, the Chopper and most of their A-Team won't instantly reload after that?


Sorry, right, but for the hardcore gamer, challenge is attractive? I mean some masochistic player would try? OK nevermind Very Happy Smile

Czert
Great idea, i think max drop of 6 will be resonable [...]
And i think here should be some limits for aidrop - say max 15/20kg of gear (whatever is more close to reality - any paradroper here?) and all other eqipment will be droped in dropboxes (max 50kg+inventory size and 2/3 dropboxes per fly) - and just be sure you do airdrop on full land sectors so your paratopers doesnt instantly become divers and your dropboxes submarines Smile.


Agree on that Razz

[Updated on: Thu, 14 November 2013 15:44] by Moderator

Re: New Feature: Helicopter drops anywhere[message #328171] Thu, 14 November 2013 20:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tais

 
Messages:672
Registered:February 2008
Location: NL
This feature/thread needs a themesong!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7688ZyX5JE&list=PLCE4306D5E48EB951


Re: New Feature: Helicopter drops anywhere[message #328173] Thu, 14 November 2013 20:57 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Slax

 
Messages:1433
Registered:July 2006
Location: People riding polar bears...
Tais
This feature/thread needs a themesong!

*Cough*
MAXIMUM CHEESE ACTIVATED!

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